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CNN This Morning
GOP Debate Addresses Trump's Absence; Trump to Surrender at Fulton County Jail Today. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired August 24, 2023 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Top of the hour. Glad you're with us, because it is a big day. Glad I have Victor Blackwell by my side.
[06:00:37]
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. Glad to be here.
HARLOW: Up almost all night, watching that debate.
BLACKWELL: Took a 90-minute nap. But we're here.
HARLOW: We've got a lot to get to. Let's start with "Five Things to Know" for this Thursday, August 24.
Just hours from now, Donald Trump expected to surrender at the Fulton County Jail in Georgia. This will be the fourth time he's turning himself in to be arrested in five months. This time, he faces charges for trying to overturn Joe Biden's victory in Georgia.
BLACKWELL: Trump's GOP rivals addressed his legal battles last night at the first GOP primary debate. Six of the eight candidates raised their hands when they would asked if they would still support Trump as the nominee, even if he's convicted.
This morning, Vivek Ramaswamy finds himself in the spotlight. He was the center of attention at center stage last night. He sparred with a lot of the candidates in contentious exchanges on issues including the war in Ukraine.
HARLOW: Nikki Haley challenging her rivals on abortion rights, clashing with former Vice President Mike Pence and arguing a federal abortion ban is just not politically realistic.
BLACKWELL: And there are new questions today about Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, presumed dead in a plane crash just two months after he led a rebellion against Russian president Vladimir Putin. New eyewitnesses are sharing accounts about what they saw and what they heard during that crash.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
HARLOW: So the debate last night was not a lot about Trump. But today, you're going to see -- probably see there's going to be a lot of coverage of Trump. BLACKWELL: Well, that was strategic on his part, knowing that he could
cut that news cycle by turning himself in today.
HARLOW: What a split screen it will be when, just hours from now, former President Trump will be arrested for the fourth time after he skipped last night's Republican primary presidential debate.
Sources tell CNN Trump is planning to turn himself in tonight at the Fulton County Jail and face felony charges for trying to overturn his election loss in Georgia.
What we know this morning, at least half of Trump's 18 co-defendants have already surrendered. That includes Rudy Giuliani. Here are the mug shots so far. The deadline to surrender is noon tomorrow.
BLACKWELL: And although he was not there last night, Trump still loomed large over the first Republican presidential debate happening in Milwaukee. At one point, the moderators asked his eight rivals if they would still support Trump as the GOP nominee if he's convicted.
You hear that? The audience cheered when several of the candidates raised their hands, including Ron DeSantis and Mike Pence.
Jessica Dean is live, up early for us in Milwaukee. So one of the debate moderators referred to the former president -- you know the time -- 58 minutes into the debate --
HARLOW: 9:58.
BLACKWELL: -- 9:58, 58 minutes into the debate, as the elephant not in the room.
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Poppy is so precise with that time. It's perfect, but it really illustrates that they did get to some other things. They did actually get to talk about policies and where they're different.
But Victor, to your point, he was the elephant not in the room. Of course, he's going to face his -- he's going to turn himself in for his fourth indictment in just the last several months.
And all of these candidates, these eight candidates on stage, who are all polling behind him, the closest by some 20 points, double digits, for sure, were hoping this was their breakout moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The race for the White House takes flight.
DEAN (voice-over): Eight Republican presidential hopefuls taking the national stage in Milwaukee in their first primary debate. In the absence of former President Trump, the party frontrunner, the fight for air time was on.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to send Joe Biden back to his basement. NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is that Biden
didn't do this to us.
MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm the best prepared, the most tested, the most qualified and proven conservative in this race.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you want a super PAC puppet or do you want a patriot who speaks the truth?
DEAN (voice-over): With the debate coming on the eve of Trump's fourth arrest this year, the candidates addressed the ongoing indictments and possible convictions.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Would you still support him as your party's choice? Please raise your hand if you would.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the United States.
[06:05:02]
DEAN (voice-over): Former Vice President Mike Pence did not hesitate to attack other party rivals. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley drawing from the same playbook.
HALEY: You have Ron DeSantis. You've got Tim Scott. You've got Mike Pence. They all voted to raise the debt, and Donald Trump added $8 trillion to our debt. And our kids are never going to forgive us for this.
And we have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America. We can't win a general election that way.
DEAN (voice-over): But most flurries of attacks involved first-time candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, with the tech entrepreneur brawling with Pence, Haley and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie over experience, foreign policy, Trump, Ukraine, China and more.
PENCE: Now is not the time for on-the-job training. We don't need to bring in a rookie. We don't need to bring in people without experience.
CHRISTIE: The last person in one of these debates, Bret, who stood in the middle of the stage and said, What's a skinny guy with an odd last name doing up here, was Barack Obama. And I'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur standing on stage tonight.
RAMASWAMY: Give me a hug. Give me a huge, just like you did to Obama.
CHRISTIE: The same -- the same --
HALEY: The problem that Vivek doesn't understand is he wants to hand Ukraine to Russia. He wants to let China eat Taiwan. He wants to go and stop funding Israel. You don't do that to friends. RAMASWAMY: False.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: Professional politician. There you have it.
HALEY: Under your watch, you would make America lesser. You have no foreign policy experience, and it shows.
RAMASWAMY: And you know what?
(CHANTING)
DEAN (voice-over): On the issue of abortion rights, Pence and Haley clashed over the best way forward.
HALEY: Let's be honest with the American people and say it will take 60 Senate votes. It will take a majority of the House. So in order to do that, let's find consensus.
PENCE: To be honest with you, Nikki, you're my friend, but consensus is the opposite of leadership. When the Supreme Court returned this question to the American people, they didn't just send it to the states only. It's not a states-only issue. It's a moral issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN: One interesting thing to note. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, his team really set the stage before last debate -- the last night's debate, saying that he was going to be the one taking all of this incoming because of his second place standing in the polling, Victor and Poppy.
But really -- you saw it in the story there that we just aired -- it was Vivek Ramaswamy who took so much of the heat. DeSantis was really allowed to kind of stick to his message and what he wanted to talk about and other -- and really stay in his lane, not have to get out of that or take a lot of those attacks.
Now also, look for these candidates to maximize as much of this news cycle as possible. They're really going to try to get in on this before the former president, as he often does, takes back the oxygen when he turns himself in later today.
HARLOW: No question about it. Jessica Dean, thank you for the report.
BLACKWELL: All right. The table is full. CNN political commentator, former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan; CNN senior political analyst and anchor, John Avlon; Jessica Washington, senior reporter at "The Root"; and Maura Gillespie, who served as the deputy chief of staff to Congressman Adam Kinzinger. All with us.
Geoff, you're new to the table. I want to start with you. Big picture, who had had the best night?
GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Nikki Haley had the best night. Right? I think going into this, I was looking to see who was going to be the adult in the room, right?
Donald Trump wasn't going to be there, so you had a chance to build your own brand. And I think she did a really good job of sending a strong, articulate message as to why she should be the nominee.
And she was able to push back on Donald Trump in the appropriate manner and not kind of this overly, over-the-top method. And she also articulated some really interesting policy decisions.
BLACKWELL: Well, they're so far behind, though, right? They're in the single digits, most of them. Is this enough to, I guess, realign the huddle of those who are so far behind Trump?
DUNCAN: Well, I certainly hope so. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, there was three truths going into this debate.
One is Donald Trump is in the lead. Two, Joe Biden is easily beatable. And three, there's 50 million Republicans that are still open for -- for grabs. And so you have to aim your targets at that 50 million.
HARLOW: You know what I kept thinking about, John, last night? I kept thinking about the general election debates. And I kept thinking about each one of them versus Biden. And I kept thinking about a lot of energy coming from a lot of them and what that will look like.
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR/SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's what you should be thinking about, because that's the rational process of analyzing a primary. Who's the best general election candidate? Who's best predicted to win?
And look, I agree with Geoff. I think Nikki Haley had the best debate last night by far, in terms of exceeding expectations.
I thought Chris Christie and Mike Pence were both crisp, and they didn't play to the base, but they really did say, Look, this is where I stand. And I think that itself is compelling to voters.
I think DeSantis didn't have a breakout moment, despite the fact he was center stage.
HARLOW: Did not want people raising their hands.
AVLON: No, no.
BLACKWELL: It's not kindergarten, he said.
AVLON: Which is -- which is an attempt to sort of get out of that. And Tim Scott, who's had a lot of good will and momentum -- remember, especially in Iowa, because this is a state-by-state race, ultimately, did not have that kind of breakout moment that he really needed last night.
[06:10:04]
HARLOW: Was he too polite?
AVLON: I don't know that that was the sin, but he didn't elbow his way into the conversation as much.
HARLOW: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Yes. He was third from the bottom on the ranking of those who spoke. I mean, just ahead of Burgum and Hutchinson --
HARLOW: That's right.
BLACKWELL: -- who barely got onto the stage.
So if we look at the question of Donald Trump and his decision not to participate, was there anything last night that you saw that said he should reconsider that for the September debate?
MAURA GILLESPIE, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR REP. ADAM KINZINGER: He should just as far as supporting the voters.
BLACKWELL: Well, politically?
GILLESPIE: Politically, Donald Trump is going to do what he wants to do. Right? He thought that he had the best chance of taking back the attention, taking the oxygen out of the room, by having his one-on- one. Where -- I don't know if anyone watched it. I don't if anyone watched the Tucker Carlson-Trump conversation. It was all backward- looking.
I mean, he just solely focuses on what happened in the past. He has nothing to present to the American people as far as a forward-looking approach or any policies.
So quite frankly, he probably wouldn't want to be -- wouldn't want to take on those tough questions. So no, I don't see he's -- I don't see him looking at last night's debate and thinking, I could have really shined there, in terms of substance. In terms of throwing jabs and elbows and cheese-grating the conversation and just saying no and false, like Vivek did, yes, he could do that.
HARLOW: Yes?
JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR REPORTER, "THE ROOT": Yes, I do think politically not being there makes sense for him. He's the frontrunner by so much, and -- and he wants to kind of almost come into this as, I am the president running. That's kind of how -- what he's trying to do there.
And so by not showing up, he's saying I am, you know, too above this system. And I do think it -- it might work politically for him.
AVLON: It's like a Rose Garden/indictment strategy, is what you're saying.
But Victor, you asked, you know, is this too early? Is this -- or is it too late, rather --
BLACKWELL: Yes. AVLON: -- to reshuffle this primary field? Absolutely not. This is the first debate. And I think you'll see, actually, a lot of recalibrations and rising fortunes and falling fortunes as a result of last night. So no, it's not too late at all. This is just the beginning.
BLACKWELL: So let's listen to -- you mentioned going after the president, President Biden. Here is a bit of what we heard from the candidates last night on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand why measuring is hurting. Biden's inflation is choking us.
ASA HUTCHINSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our nation is in trouble. And it's in trouble because of failed leadership. And the solution is not four more years of Joseph Biden.
PENCE: Joe Biden has weakened America at home and abroad.
DESANTIS: We will send Joe Biden back to his basement, and we will reverse the decline of this country.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Joe Biden's Bidenomics has led to the loss of $10,000 of spending power for the average family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Geoff, if you're looking for the lines that last, the ones that people likely will be talking about today were about each other. About Vivek, about Chris Christie, about the -- the back and forth between Haley and Ramaswamy. Does that hit what it needs to hit?
DUNCAN: We're going back to John's earlier point. We have to think about winning a general. Right? And so we can't have a Herschel Walker moment like we had in Georgia, where you -- you nominate the perfect primary candidate to then run into the absolute buzz saw and have the only two Democrats in statewide offices be in Senate seats because of -- because of that issue.
HARLOW: You're not -- you're not bitter at all?
AVLON: Herschel is the perfect primary --
DUNCAN: No, no, no.
BLACKWELL: It's been a minute since I heard a Herschel Walker reference.
AVLON: Yes, yes, yes. Me, too.
DUNCAN: But the point is, I mean, I think Joe Biden is beatable. And that's not just because I'm a Republican. He's beatable because the polling says that. Under 40 percent support. You know, there's nobody on either side of the aisle that can explain, really, some of these policies and conversations that he's having.
And he's 80 years old going on 90 years old. And so that's an issue for Democrats to defend. And unless we take that argument to them, we're going to lose. And this is -- this should be a winnable period of time for us.
AVLON: But to your macro point, it's also about a general election. Right? Right now, they're making arguments against Biden that are -- resonate with a primary base but need to have credibility with the general electorate, with independent voters, with moderate voters. Swing voters in swing states, folks. That's what it's going to come down to.
And so you've got to have a reality-based debate, not a right-wing echo chamber.
DUNCAN: Absolutely
BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you, all.
HARLOW: Thanks, guys.
BLACKWELL: Of course, we'll keep talking.
HARLOW: Donald Trump will surrender later today. We're going to take you live to the Fulton County Jail to talk about how this is actually going to happen, once the sun comes up there.
BLACKWELL: And the mercenary leader who launched a rebellion in Russia is now presumed dead after a mysterious plane crash near Moscow. What an eyewitness saw and heard as that jet fell out of the sky.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I got indicted four times. All trivia. Nonsense. Bull-(EXPLETIVE DELETED). It's all bull-(EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Bleeping that for a morning audience.
That was former President Trump sitting down, though, with fired FOX News anchor Tucker Carlson. This was his counterprogramming for the debate.
In just a few hours, Trump is expected to cross this entrance into the Fulton County Jail and surrender under his fourth criminal indictment. So far, half of Trump's 18 co-defendants in the case have already turned themselves in ahead of tomorrow's noon Eastern deadline.
Trump's bail has been set at $200,000. He is expected to leave his Bedminster golf club for Georgia this afternoon and then quickly return following his surrenderer. Nick Valencia following all of it, live outside of the jail in Fulton County. Good morning, Nick.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. It cannot be overstated enough, Victor and Poppy. What will happen here later today in Atlanta is unprecedented.
And when the former president, who finds himself in criminal peril, walks through those doors into Fulton County Jail, he'll be doing so as a guest for the first time, as well as a criminal defendant in this sprawling indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA (voice-over): An historic moment set for today. Former President Donald Trump will surrender to authorities at the Fulton County Jail. They'll post a $200,000 bond, be processed and possibly have his mug shot taken.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: This indictment is the travesty.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Former New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani, not mincing words after his surrender.
GIULIANI: This could happen to me, who is probably --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch where you're putting those.
GIULIANI: -- the most prolific prosecutor, maybe in American history, and the most effective mayor, for sure, it can happen to you.
VALENCIA (voice-over): The former federal prosecutor even taking a shot at the Fulton County district attorney.
GIULIANI: Fani Willis will go down in American history as having conducted one of the worst attacks on the American Constitution when this case is dismissed.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Giuliani was booked on 13 charges and, bond was set for $150,000.
Trump posting on Truth Social shortly after Giuliani surrendered: }The greatest Mayor in the history of New York City was just ARRESTED in Atlanta, Georgia, because he fought for Election Integrity. THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED AND STOLEN. HOW SAD FOR OUR COUNTRY. MAGA!"
Along with Giuliani, two more of Trump's key election lawyers have also turned themselves in. Sidney Powell --
SIDNEY POWELL, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: President Trump won by a landslide. We are going to prove it.
[06:20:04]
VALENCIA (voice-over): And Jenna Ellis. JENNA ELLIS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: We want to make sure to
protect election integrity.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Both Powell and Ellis are facing charges related to the 2020 Georgia presidential election, including violating Georgia's antiracketeering law.
So far, nine of Trump's codefendants have turned themselves in. And for two of them -- former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and ex-Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark -- their efforts to avoid arrest or surrender have come to an end.
U.S. District Court Judge Steve Jones rejecting both Meadows's and Clark's emergency filings in two separate rulings to move their cases to federal court.
Meadows argued that he should be allowed to avoid processing in Fulton County before his scheduled hearing Monday. The judge writing in his decision, "the clear statutory language for removing a criminal prosecution does not support an injunction or temporary stay prohibiting District Attorney Willis's enforcement or execution of the arrest warrant against Meadows."
Clark sought an emergency hold on the state court proceedings, including efforts to arrest any of the case's defendants who didn't turn themselves in by the Friday deadline.
Jones writing, "Until the federal court assumes jurisdiction over the state criminal case, the state court retains jurisdiction over the prosecution and the proceedings, continue despite the notice of the removal."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA (on camera): The process for the former president's surrender is expected to be brief, well shorter than most people who turn themselves in here to the Fulton County Jail.
The sheriff here in Fulton County, Pat Labat, has said that he's going to treat all the defendants in this case the same. We'll see later if that applies to the former president -- Victor, Poppy.
HARLOW: Nick, thank you.
BLACKWELL: So there was a moment last night at the debate that captured just how much Trump's legal issues are splitting the Republican Party.
Chris Christie was trying to respond to Vivek Ramaswamy's defense of Trump, and the crowd forcefully interrupted with really loud booing, prompting the moderator, Bret Baier, to do this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BOOING) BAIER: So listen, the more time we spend doing this, the less time they can talk about issues you want to talk about. So let's just get through this section.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and former U.S. attorney in the middle district of Georgia Michael Moore; CNN political commentator and former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan.
Geoff, if the polling and the fundraising didn't send the message, if you have those hundreds, maybe thousands of people booing, it sends it. What is the incentive, then, to go hard or more aggressively against Trump? Especially last night.
DUNCAN: Yes. That little episode during that debate was Exhibit A for what's wrong with the Republican Party. Right?
Donald Trump has confused us, that the louder and angrier you are, that the more conservative you are. And that couldn't be any further from the truth.
And that's why, I think, one, why he lost the election in 2020, because we -- the middle just got so tired of listening to that rhetoric and that angry, visceral tone.
And then we watch these candidates now as they develop this relationship with Donald Trump. They continue to see headwinds and makes it tougher for them to win these elections.
We've got -- we've got to heal from the inside here. And I think until we get moments like that out of our discussion as Republicans, we're going to keep doing the same thing over and over again.
HARLOW: But is there any hope the party will this -- this election cycle? I mean, what did last night tell you about your party? You're still a Republican.
DUNCAN: Yes, no. It told me that there's a couple leaders ready to take this on, right? There's a couple of folks that are willing to call Donald Trump out for being a fake Republican, like Nikki Haley did very early.
Put $8 trillion worth of national debt on his shoulders during his tenure as president.
There's those that are able to talk about and articulate conservative policies. Or there's those that are able to put a pathway forward to beat Joe Biden in a legitimate, face-to-face manner.
Yes, I think there's some hope. And I know it feels impossible. It feels like we're just victims of gravity here as Republicans, that Donald Trump is going to win. And certainly, if you look at the polling, it seems that way.
But the reality is he's got 91 indictments. These are real serious charges. He's acting like a low-rent mob boss right now. He's -- he's trying to bait people in by throwing fundraisers with them. He's trying to get, you know, the bully pulpit fired up again. He's trying to intimidate witnesses.
I mean, look, this is a low-rent mob boss that's going to be exposed for -- for not having any facts over the next 9, 10, 12 months, and I hope Republicans wake up to that.
HARLOW: Michael, you're next. I just want to get. You said he's intimidating witnesses. Did you feel like he was intimidating you when he said before your grand jury testimony a week or so ago that you shouldn't -- he posted that you shouldn't talk.
DUNCAN: Well, that's probably what he was trying to do, but it certainly didn't work. I got there, actually, a few minutes earlier after reading that tweet.
HARLOW: OK.
BLACKWELL: So Michael, there was a moment last night. And really, the -- the moderators kind of painted this really dark picture of American cities. It -- it sounded like the American carnage of 2017 --
HARLOW: Yes.
BLACKWELL: -- inaugural speech. But the question was to Chris Christie about what he would do about gun crime. And this was the plan that he had for U.S. attorneys across the country. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[06:25:04]
CHRISTIE: The problem is -- is that these prosecutors in these localities in the states are refusing to do their job and to arrest violent criminals.
So what a President Christie would do is appoint an attorney general who would instruct each of the 93 U.S. attorneys that they are to take over the prosecution of violent crime in every one of those cities that are failing to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: How do you reconcile that with the law?
MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think probably, he was giving an abbreviated answer that makes not a lot of sense. I mean, at this point, he was just trying to get a sound bite in.
I mean, the reality is that there are limited resources and limited powers, really, for what a federal prosecutor can do. And also, the investigating agencies.
So the FBI has a specific charter. The ATF has a specific role. Homeland Security has a specific role. And actually, the Constitution in the state of Georgia, in fact, provides for the -- the creation of district attorneys to be elected and designated so they'll be prosecuting crimes. So taking over crime is not really right. There are things that a federal prosecutor can do, but they do it by partnering with their locals. So this idea that the feds would sweep in and take over all the prosecution of violent crime is just not -- is sort of a farce.
Again, I mean, there are things you can do to partner, but not -- not as if --
BLACKWELL: Not take over?
MOORE: -- you're going to take over the district attorney's office.
BLACKWELL: All right. Michael, Geoff, thank you.
HARLOW: So what was Putin doing at the moment that ally-turned-foe Yevgeny Prigozhin's plane went down? We have those details, next.
BLACKWELL: And overnight, detained "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich appeared in a Moscow court. His pretrial detention has been extended until November 30. It was supposed to end next Wednesday.
Gershkovich has been detained in Russia on espionage charges since March. He faces 20 years in prison. He and "The Wall Street Journal" deny the allegations. The U.S. government has declared him to be wrongfully detained.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
