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CNN This Morning
Plane Crash Kills Wagner Boss; Ramaswamy Claims Climate Change is a Hoax; House Expected to Launch Inquiry. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired August 24, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:30:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think (INAUDIBLE)?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's not much that happens (INAUDIBLE) question that Putin's not behind. I don't know enough to know the answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So, that is President Biden yesterday weighing in on the plane crash in Russia that purportedly killed mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin. We're also getting a look at new images of the crash that appear to show a part of the wing of the tail of the aircraft. It's a debris field northeast of Moscow. It stretches for more than a mile. And here's what an eyewitness said.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I heard an explosion or a bang. Usually, if an explosion happens on the ground, then you get an echo. But it was just a bang. And I looked up and saw white smoke. One wing flew off in one direction and the fuselage went like that. And then it glided down on one wing. It didn't nosedive. It was gliding. I was afraid it would fall into the village.
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HARLOW: So, Russian state media reports ten people were on that plane. So far only eight bodies have been found. Also reporting from them that vans carrying the dead are now arriving at a forensic bureau.
Our Nick Paton Walsh is live in Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine, covering all of it.
Obviously, Nick, what Prigozhin has said and what he did a few months ago is at the front of people's minds this morning as this happens.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, it's important to remind people what a Seminole figure Prigozhin was in Putin's Russia. A Putin confidant used to interfere in elections in the U.S. allegedly, extending influence in Africa, fighting on the toughest parts of the frontlines here in Ukraine with his brutal Wagner force. And this plane crash, extraordinary. The information on open source about what the plane was doing, the catastrophic moment that appears - that appears to have occurred causing it to plummet down to the earth. And as you said yourself, the wreckage so, frankly, horrifying that two of those bodies have yet even to be found.
That is part of the difficulty here of working out what indeed has really happened. Yes, Prigozhin is said by Russian officials to have been on that plane, along with a coatary (ph), frankly, of his inner henchmen in Wagner. Extraordinary that they put themselves all on the same plane. It's just perhaps they felt that after the failed armed rebellion two months ago that the threat potentially against them from Putin's inner circle may have diminished. But it is remarkable to see these images of the wreckage spread over a mile-wide area. And morning already occurring amongst Wagner followers on telegram channels and indeed outside Wagner's headquarters.
No final confirmation of his death, but that is something we'll only, frankly, hear from Russian state officials and Russian media. And they are in the service of Vladimir Putin, the man who Prigozhin crossed like no one else has done in the last 23 years in which Putin has been in power.
So, a stark moment for Vladimir Putin potentially. Whoever was behind this plane crash, fingers are being pointed at him here in Ukraine and also in Russia too, suggesting this was essentially Putin's revenge. No evidence for that, but it would entirely be in keeping, frankly, with Putin's conduct in the past. He's poisoned allegedly critics, taken out critics for much lesser offenses than that which Prigozhin was guilty of. And the fact Prigozhin seemed to be at liberty for two months startled many.
A key moment, though, because this is clearly Putin perhaps thinking that Prigozhin remained a threat and deciding to risk angering all those who followed and believed in Prigozhin by this particular decision. The final facts, still unclear, but a remarkable moment to gain in Putin's Russia.
Back to you.
HARLOW: Certainly is.
Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Prigozhin's plane crash also came up during last night's GOP presidential debate. Here's former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at what Putin did today. He killed Prigozhin. When I was at the U.N., the Russian ambassador suddenly died. This guy is a murder. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Joining us now are "Bloomberg" editor and foreign affairs columnist Bobby Ghosh, and CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger.
Gentlemen, welcome to you.
Bobby, I'll start with you.
The president says he doesn't know enough. And we know the investigation will be led by Russia. And Nick pointed out, well, that's not going to be conclusive. Any question in your mind that this is Putin's doing?
BOBBY GHOSH, EDITOR AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, "BLOOMBERG": The most likely scenario that it's - it's Putin's doing. The president correctly said, very few things happen in Russia without Putin's knowledge or something like this wouldn't happen without his authorization. There's a small chance that it was an accident, but that's very, very, very small. The most likely scenario from everything we've seen so far is that this plane was brought down.
[06:35:06]
HARLOW: David, if it is -- was Putin, why did he wait so long?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's a great question, Poppy. And one explanation of this is that he needed some time to sort out what he needed Wagner to do or had to go disarm it. He spent the past two months getting Wagner to give up their heavy weapons so that they were no longer a force against him. He gave them some busy work to do in Africa, where they've been active for some time, and a bit in Belarus.
But, you know, it's only been two months. It was two months to the day. And I'm reminded of what Bill Burns, the CIA director, and former ambassador to Russia, told us a month ago at the Aspen Security Forum -
HARLOW: Well, we have it, David.
SANGER: Which is - oh.
HARLOW: Let's play it for people. Here it is.
SANGER: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: I think Putin is someone who generally thinks that revenge is a dish best served cold. So, he's going to try to settle the situation to the extent he can. But again, in my experience, Putin is the ultimate apostle of payback. So, I would be surprised if Prigozhin escapes further retribution for this. So, in that sense, the president's right, if I were Prigozhin, I wouldn't fire my food taster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Prescient, David?
SANGER: It sure sounds that way. I mean, Poppy, this was either a scene from Machiavelli, if it was what we think it was, or it was a scene from "The Godfather." But either way, you know, it is a remarkable end for a man who began selling hot dogs and then became sort of the - the moment of - of gangster rule. He rose in that in - in Russia's early 2000s. And then begins to interfere in the election, running the internet research agency to come to Putin's aid. And then runs Wagner group, although denying that he did it until Ukraine came along.
So, he is really sort of cracked the modern Putin area and he became a victim, if this is what we think it was, of that same era.
BLACKWELL: And so what does this mean for Putin's power? The ability for Yevgeniy Prigozhin to live for two months, to rise up against Putin and live to tell about it represent a venerability. Is all of that erased now?
GHOSH: No, it's not completely erased, but this goes some - to some degree to - to protect Putin - Putin for the moment. I mean what happens in dictatorships like this is when one person raises his head against the ultimate leader, there has to be retribution. Putin is on record saying that the one thing he cannot forgive is betrayal. And so, eventually, if this is what we think it is, then Prigozhin got his punishment for betrayal.
And it's a signal to all the other people around Putin that this can happen if you try to betray the man at the top. As David said, this - this is a - this is a country that's run essentially as a mafia state. But mafia bosses are always looking over their shoulder.
I don't think the fact that Prigozhin was allowed to live for two months is going to change people's calculations. But if the war in Ukraine continues to go badly or doesn't go well for Russia, then other people in the close circle might begin to get ideas. Of course, at the same time, having experienced the Prigozhin rebellion, Putin would be watching much more closely to see who might be acting against him.
Remember, some other generals were -- have also been fired.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
GHOSH: Surovikin, Sergei Surovikin, the air force commander who was supposedly close to Prigozhin, was also fired. So, this is a purge, not just of one person, but of an institution (ph).
HARLOW: That's a good point. And then - and his number two also apparently died on the plane.
GHOSH: Yes. BLACKWELL: Yes.
GHOSH: Yes.
BLACKWELL: All right, Bobby, David, thank you both.
SANGER: Thank you.
HARLOW: So, Vivek Ramaswamy made a startling claim about climate change at the debate last night. We're going to fact check that right ahead.
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[06:42:25]
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VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The climate change agenda is a hoax.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wow, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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RAMASWAMY: The climate change agenda is a hoax, and we have to (INAUDIBLE). And the reality is the anti-carbon agenda is the wet blanket on our economy. And so the reality is, more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate change.
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BLACKWELL: All right, that was tech entrepreneur and Republican presidential candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy, claiming that the climate change agenda is a hoax. But to no surprise, Politifact calls that a false statement. Ninety-seven percent of the world's climate scientists agree that human activity is causing climate change.
HARLOW: But then he said this, that more people are dying from climate change policies, that prevent climate change, right, than are actually dying of climate change.
Politifact points out Ramaswamy did not provide any evidence of that. It wasn't clear what policies, by the way, he was actually referring to. His campaign has not responded to Politifact's request to clarify.
And "The New York Times" this morning also points out how false that was, pointing out that no deaths have been linked to the growth of renewable energy or to the Biden administration's efforts to reduce fossil fuels.
Back with us, John Avlon, Jessica Washington, Maura Gillespie and Geoff Duncan.
The Republican Party was asked about climate change. That's a good and important thing. But what Vivek Ramaswamy did there, what's your take? GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he certainly had a
loud, proud thing going on and was shoveling lots of red meat the whole night, right? Donald Trump light, Donald Trump junior, you name it, that was kind of the lane he wanted to fill and mission accomplished, I guess.
You know, I think about that issue, climate change. I think about guns. I think about immigration. I think about all these opportunities for Republicans to kind of get to this reset point of a GOP 2.0 where we take a much more mature look at policies, right? Instead of doubling down on things that might have been popular or irrelevant or electable ten years ago, we forward look and we have conservative conversations, conservative conversations around climate change, immigration, right? We've got to have a pathway here. We've got to figure this out. We just can't lock the border. We've got to figure out what to do with 16 million undocumented folks.
We need to follow the lead of - of Joe Q Public (ph) who's talking about guns and wants to have a, you know, is - is it OK to have 100 capacity magazines? Is it OK to let people with multiple red flags be able to buy guns on no time flat? I mean we've got to be able to have those mature conversations. I think that's the 65 percent of Republicans that are undecided right now. I think they're wanting to see that adult in the room rise up and have that conversation.
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, and, look, I mean, God bless you for pushing for a policy based conversation that's pragmatic and nuanced, but, I mean, obviously, that's not the lane where conservative media is and that was the queue that Vivek was talking.
[06:45:03]
I think you're right to focus on that, though, because he is the youngest person on the stage. And to say that climate change is a hoax, to say that these - these attempted solutions have been worse than the underlying problem is clueless and callous and doesn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny of fact checks. And then to have Ron DeSantis, a governor whose state is being enormously affected by these problems, sort of take a pass.
But Nikki Haley, to her credit, was the adult in the room on this question as well. I think Chris Christie as well. You know, this -- these are the kind of things we need to insist on a fact-based debate. It's not too much to ask. That kind of red meat dumbs us all down.
BLACKWELL: You mentioned playing to conservative media. There were a couple of times there where it seemed like they were shoe horning in some of those elements. Like Tim Scott said that his mother to him a few things. The last one, that boys play sports with boys, as if that's a lesson that his mom would send down about trans students playing sports. Vivek Ramaswamy did that as well, kind of listed off some headlines. He took a lot of incoming.
Let's play some of what we heard from him - or candidates about him there as he was at center stage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT stand up here.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There you have it.
NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Under your watch -
RAMASWAMY: So the reality is -
HALEY: You would make America less - you have no foreign policy experience, and it shows.
RAMASWAMY: And you know what, there's a (INAUDIBLE) -
HALEY: It shows.
MIKE PENCE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Vivek, you recently said a president can't do everything. Well, I got news for you, Vivek, I've been in the hallway, I've been in the West Wing. A president of the United States has to confront every crisis facing America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: And that's the former vice president, who is now going after a person who's 38 years old and never held political office. Does that make them look smaller? Does that diminish them by going after Vivek Ramaswamy?
MAURA GILLESPIE, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, FORMER REP. ADAM KINZINGER: No, it's about experience and being able to serve in the highest office of the country. And they pointed that out last night, that Vivek doesn't have experience in, not just politics, but in leadership and understanding the issues. He demonstrated that he didn't understand the issues.
And to your point about having it fact-based, nothing was fact checked in real time, which is one of the biggest complaints many of us had about Donald Trump is that it's hard to even keep up with how many lies he spews. And last night it was hard for me to keep up with how many, you know, mistakes and falsities that Vivek, you know, iterated.
So, to me - and him being the youngest, I have to say too, it's kind of shocking that he was saying that climate change is a hoax, when that is such an issue for younger voters. And his opportunity to appeal to them fell flat.
HARLOW: What's your takeaway?
JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR REPORTER, "THE ROOT": Yes, especially on climate change. I mean we're watching it happen in real time.
HARLOW: Right.
WASHINGTON: You know, we're seeing these climate disasters. We have all of the scientific evidence that this is manmade and this is an issue that we're perpetuating. It's not the early 2000s where people are saying, oh, some people don't believe in climate change, some people do. We're in this moment where everyone can see what's happening. It just feels so out of left field to even be having this debate is climate change manmade or not.
HARLOW: Guys, thank you very much.
BLACKWELL: Live pictures now of the Fulton County Jail. In just a few hours, former President Trump will turn himself in there.
And this just in, Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee are expected to launch an inquiry into Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. The new reporting there, next.
HARLOW: A look at this also. A rare phenomenon happening in Canada. Newly shared video shows a fire tornado forming over a lake. That's what it's called. Officials say a combination of high fire intensity, strong winds and air mass instability caused this.
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[06:52:25]
BLACKWELL: This morning, as former President Trump prepares to surrender in Georgia today, House republicans are expected to launch an investigation into the district attorney who brought those charges against him. The House Judiciary Committee is expected to open a new inquiry into Fulton County DA Fani Willis as soon as today. A source tells CNN the panel was expected to ask Willis whether she was coordinating with the Justice Department, which has already indicted Trump twice, or if she used federal dollars to complete her investigation.
CNN's Melanie Zanona is live in Washington with more.
Good morning to you.
What are the House Republicans expecting to get out of this investigation if DA Willis even shows up?
MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Victor and Poppy.
You're absolutely right, this has been a very familiar playbook for House Republicans which is investigate the investigators. Sources tell me and my colleague Annie Grayer that the House Judiciary Committee is planning to ask and look into whether the Fulton County DA coordinated or communicated with special counsel Jack Smith in any way. That is something that Fani Willis has flat-out denied. And Republicans also want to know whether any federal funds were used in the Georgia state level investigation into Donald Trump in the efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
So, we could see some action on that front as soon as today potentially in the form of a letter. And then a little bit more down the line we're also told that the House Judiciary Committee is planning to move a bill that would allow current and former presidents to move either criminal or civil cases from the state court to federal court. That was something that was actually first introduced after Trump was first indicted by the Manhattan district attorney, but it has gained new steam in the wake of this latest Georgia indictment.
But we should point out here that lawmakers don't have a ton of jurisdiction over state level issues. And even on the federal level, they have run into some resistance in trying to intervene in these ongoing criminal matters, which is just really extraordinary for Republicans to be trying to do this.
But, for most Republicans, this is a messaging ploy above all else. And they are just really eager to show that they are using everything in their power to try to defend the former president.
Victor and Poppy.
BLACKWELL: Melanie Zanona for us there in Washington. Thank you.
HARLOW: So, in just a few hours, former President Trump says he will, quote, "be proudly arrested" in Fulton County, Georgia. We'll tell you what to expect when he crosses the jail's entrance.
BLACKWELL: And we have some big name guests coming up.
Next hour, presidential candidate Chris Christie and former White House Chief of Staff under President Biden, Ron Klain. They'll join us.
[06:54:57]
In the 8:00 hour, former Vice President Mike Pence and New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, they will be with us live.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Eight Republican hopefuls at the first presidential debate, trying to distinguish themselves from one another and from the GOP frontrunner who was not there.
NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America.
MIKE PENCE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now is not the time for on the job training. We don't need to bring in a rookie.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the only person bringing clear, strategic vision to our foreign policy, rather than just going through the talking points memorized in 1990.
NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You would make America less - you have no foreign policy experience, and it shows.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: As Donald Trump plans his surrender to Fulton County authorities, three of his attorneys now surrendered at the Atlanta jail.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: This indictment is a travesty.
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Even being a very successful top prosecutor in this country does not give you immunity from being a criminal defendant.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: A federal judge has rejected a last-minute legal maneuver by Mark Meadows and by Jeffrey Clark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any multi-defendant case, we've got 19 here, watch the knives come out.
[07:00:03]
COOPER: And the mercenary leader who dared challenge Vladimir Putin, Yevgeniy Prigozhin, apparently dead in a highly suspicious plane crash.
