Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Chris Sununu is Interviewed about the Republican Debate; Wagner Plane Crashes in Russia; Googled Moments of Debate. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:26]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, MODERATOR: If former President Trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? Please raise your hand if you would. Just -- hold on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: As you saw there, most of the Republican candidates on that stage in the debate in Milwaukee last night vowing to support President Trump even if he's a convicted felon.

Despite Trump's absence, there was no way for his Republican rivals to ignore that strong support despite the legal troubles. Our Steve Collinson writes overnight, quote, "the melee in Milwaukee was like a prize fight that lacked the reigning champion. At best, the debate turned into an audition in second place in a race that, on the current trajectory, looks likely to catapult Trump to his third conservative Republican nomination."

But did any of the candidates do anything last night to even slow him down?

Let's see what New Hampshire's Republican governor, Chris Sununu, thinks. He joins us at the table.

Good morning.

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Good morning.

HARLOW: Would you have raised your hand to that question?

SUNUNU: Well, look, I think the -- what we saw last night was the Republican Party without Donald Trump. First time in six years the Republican voter -

HARLOW: I know, but I asked you, Governor -

SUNUNU: Yes.

HARLOW: Would you raise your hand?

SUNUNU: No, look, he's not going to be the nominee. I mean that's - that's the most - that's the biggest -

HARLOW: Why won't anyone answer this question directly?

SUNUNU: Because - because it's an 18 months away, what's going to happen with the indictments, with Trump, with Biden? I don't - I just told you, I don't think either of them are going to be on the ticket.

HARLOW: I know you do.

SUNUNU: I don't think - yes, I think Biden is less likely to be on the ticket than even Trump.

But what you saw -- Trump is in trouble, and I'll tell you why. I heard a lot of people say, Trump won last night. Not even close. For the first time we went from 13 candidates down to eight or nine last night. So, we're starting to winnow the field.

He wasn't mentioned. I guarantee you that drove him nuts. He -- again, to - if it had been flat, if they all came out and didn't say a whole lot, Trump would have won.

If anyone's looking for a clear frontrunner with eight people on stage, that wasn't going to happen anyways. But what you saw was three, four, five candidates really show some energy, show a future of the party without Trump, and people liked it.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, but the person who, at least according to our focus group, thought won the debate was Vivek Ramaswamy. And essentially he was defending Trump, calling him the best president of the 21st century, that he would pardon him.

So, what gives you the confidence that anything is going to change? You've got these eight who are huddled around, you know, anywhere from a one to 15 points, and Trump above 50.

SUNUNU: Because it won't be for very long. It will winnow down to five or six, at least definitely before you get to Iowa, and I think three or four before New Hampshire. And one-on-one -- remember, Trump's ceiling is about 47, 48 percent at most.

[08:35:03]

In Iowa and New Hampshire he's at 42 percent, 43 percent. So, where the conversation is happening, Trump's in trouble. And last night the conversation started to happen across the party (ph).

BLACKWELL: But this sounds like everything that was said in 2016 and it never collapsed. It sounds like everything that was said after the first indictment, and the second indictment, and the third indictment and still none of its come to fruition.

SUNUNU: The indictments won't matter with the Republican base. It's just not going to. What's going to matter is, oh, wait, we have options. I think Nikki Haley made a great point. I mean she showed some fire. Pence showed some fire. Really sparked up their campaigns. I think they did well.

HARLOW: Yes, that was really interesting, the - just the Pence tone to me.

SUNUNU: Yes, it was something we hadn't seen before. And those campaigns have been a little quiet for a while. And people went, wow, there's - there's energy here.

Vivek won. Vivek didn't win the debate, but he's being talked about. That's what you want after a debate. He didn't fall apart. And he was fairly unknown. And now people are actually taking a look. So, he did what he need to do. And DeSantis did very well.

HARLOW: You think so?

SUNUNU: No one attacked him. Yes, no one attacked him. So he got to look right in the camera, make a strong case, do exactly what he needed to do. He -- I think he shored up his conservative credentials, if you will. He looked presidential.

BLACKWELL: But what changes the narrative? Because if you look at the two who split center, DeSantis' campaign is on the descent. At least it has been for several months in the polling. And you look at Vivek Ramaswamy. He's going in the opposite direction.

Did DeSantis do anything to change the trajectory?

SUNUNU: Oh, yes. So, look, I think - I think DeSantis has been -- the campaign's been a little quiet. It's been shifting, as it should, right, as you get into debate mode, as you hit the ground in Iowa and New Hampshire, your campaign is going to change a little bit.

Vivek's kind of the new name. Kind of -- what is this all about? That gets people excited.

But I think - I think Governor DeSantis did a very good job reaffirmed where his -- why his -- he was so popular, you know, a little bit ago, what can come back, and the opportunity for a Republican Party without Trump. And I think a lot of people went, oh, yes, we've got great options here. There's a real bench here.

Now, I think Asa and Doug Burgum, I love them. I think they're wonderful. I think they should have interjected. Even Tim Scott should have interjected themselves in the conversation a little.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

SUNUNU: But remember, no one had more than 12 minutes over two hours to speak.

HARLOW: Yes.

SUNUNU: So, you're not going to get a clear frontrunner, but you got energy. You got a little back and forth. That's what we wanted to see. HARLOW: You did get energy. And I was glad there were a lot of policy questions there.

You made everyone talk a few days ago with this "New York Times" op- ed. You were writing about, folks got to get out earlier than they might want to get out.

SUNUNU: Yes.

HARLOW: Who should -- the next debate is September 27th.

SUNUNU: Yes.

HARLOW: Should Doug Burgum, Governor Burgum, Governor Hutchinson, for example, be on the stage?

SUNUNU: Oh, yes. Sure. No, if they qualify they should absolutely be there.

I think the next winnowing, if you will, will be around thanksgiving, right? If you're still in the low single digits, if anyone is still there around Thanksgiving, you probably have to go. That gets it down to five or six candidates by Iowa. A few - few will do well in Iowa, a few won't, and that's get to three or four by New Hampshire. And you get - again, you get to one-on-one, Trump's in trouble.

So, Trump saw the field narrow for the first time. He saw real options for the Republican Party that weren't led by him for the first time. If I'm Donald Trump, I'm not - I'm not thrilled.

HARLOW: We just had Chris Christie on and he's very bullish on his prospects in your state, New Hampshire. Do you think Chris Christie takes New Hampshire? What are voters telling you this morning?

SUNUNU: Ah, he could - Chris is putting everything into New Hampshire. Again, I -- I think Chris -- he hammers Trump hard, which I'm not going to complain about. I think all the candidates -- this is the opportunity to go a little bigger, right?

Vivek, for example, he's very anti-woke. Go bigger. Talk about your - your business background. If you're on the more social, conservative side, talk about fiscal discipline and limited government and how you're going to get there. Don't talk about the problems, talk about the solutions.

HARLOW: OK. We're out of time, so they tell me in my ear.

Thank you, Governor Sununu. Appreciate it.

SUNUNU: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

HARLOW: Two months after leading a filed mutiny against Russia, Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin presumed dead in plane crash. What Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is saying this morning. BLACKWELL: And we're following a mass shooting at a popular biker bar

in Orange County, California. At least three people are dead, six injured. Police say the suspected shooter was also killed. A source tells CNN the suspect was a former law enforcement officer. So far, no details on a motive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:07]

BLACKWELL: This is just coming in to CNN.

President Zelenskyy says that Ukraine had nothing to do with the plane crash involving Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin. He's now presumed dead. The Kremlin has not issued a comment since the crash. But, of course, this comes just two months after Prigozhin led a failed revolt against Vladimir Putin. Russia state media says that some of Prigozhin's top lieutenants, who helped create the brutal private military group, were also onboard.

Joining us now is former CIA chief of Russia operations, Steve Hall.

Steve, good morning to you.

Do you have any question, based on what we know, and of course there is a Russia investigation that's coming, that this is Putin's doing?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, Victor, I just don't see that there's really anybody else who, you know, realistically would have had a great interest in this. I am curious to see what -- how the Kremlin is going to spin it. And I think it's interesting that really in the 24-hour sort of cycle since this has happened, we have not heard anything definitive. All we saw was Putin making a speech at the, you know, at the BRICS conference remotely.

So, it's interesting that they're keeping sort of a heads-down approach right now, of course under the theory, which is nothing more than theory, that there's some sort of investigation going on. If there's any investigation going on in Russia, it's very strongly and directly controlled by the Kremlin.

So, it will be interesting to see how they spin this. It looks like Zelenskyy has already taken away from them one possible option, which is to say that the Ukrainians did it. But I think they'll come up with some other things just so that they have some deniability.

HARLOW: Steve, Prigozhin was presumed dead by most folks in 2019, and he was very much alive. Is there reason to believe that couldn't be the case this time? Will we have a definitive answer on that ever if it's only Russia investigating?

HALL: The short answer is, if it's only Russia investigating, which it almost will certainly be in these circumstances, I don't think we'll ever truly know. So, are there some sort of weird stories out there where perhaps his death was, for some reason, faked and he has, you know, been spirited off someplace? I mean, yes, that's -- that's possible. But I think it's much more likely that what happened was is that Putin just decided to wait two months before resolving this problem of, you know, one of his senior guys essentially conducting a mutiny, which could have turned into a coup. I think it's much more likely that Putin decided, yes, we need to move that piece off the chess board and we just needed to wait a bit to do it.

BLACKWELL: Do these reported deaths, and this video that we're looking at now of a fiery crash, do those end any of the residual impacts or bit of vulnerability that Putin faced with Prigozhin living his life for months after that, or is there some of that still out there?

[08:45:00]

HALL: You know, it mitigates it. I think it makes it a little bit less. If you have - if Putin has essentially removed Prigozhin from the - from the playing field. But the - there's no doubt in my mind that the regime is much more brittle than it - than it really has ever been in the past 20 years. I mean the idea that Prigozhin could have done what he did to begin with is - shows a significant chink in Putin's armor. One that I don't think has been healed yet.

And I think right now what's happening is, is the elites are looking the Putin and saying, how much weakness are we willing to tolerate and is something like this going to happen again. And if that's possible, how do we make sure that that doesn't happen again.

So, I - yes, Putin's in a much worse situation regardless as to whether or not Prigozhin is still alive.

HARLOW: Steve Hall, former CIA chief of Russia operations, with really important perspective. Thanks very much.

HALL: Sure.

HARLOW: So, last night, eight Republican candidates took the debate stage trying to narrow that very large gap between all of them and former President Trump. Did it resonate with voters? Harry Enten is here with the debate's most searched moments.

BLACKWELL: Firefighters in Greece, look at this, they're racing to contain more than 200 wildfires that have been breaking out since Monday, including nearly 100 in the last 24 hours. CNN's Eleni Giokos has been covering this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is what is left of one of the most beautiful hiking trails in Greece. I'm in Parnitha. This is known as the Lungs of Athens. Now burned to the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:38] GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here's where I want to ask about, who you thought did the best during this debate. Basically, who do you think won the debate.

How about Ron DeSantis? How many of you think Ron DeSantis did best? That's two people.

How about Nikki Haley? One, two, three, four people.

Ramaswamy? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was CNN's Gary Tuchman talking to some Republican voters in Iowa. Most of them agreeing that Vivek Ramaswamy won the debate last night. He's a political newcomer, stealing a lot of the spotlight from more experienced White House hopefuls. But were any of them the most Googled moment of the debate?

Joining us now, CNN's senior data reporter, Harry Enten.

What to define?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Oh, what to define. All right, so perhaps it shouldn't be so surprising, the number one moment came early on in the debate and it was this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who the heck is this skinny guy with a funny last name and what the heck is he doing in the middle of this debate stage. I'll tell you, I'm not a politician, Bret. You're right about that. I'm an entrepreneur. My parents came to this country with no money 40 years ago. I have gone on to found multibillion dollar companies. I did it while marrying my wife, Apoorva, raising our two sons, following our faith in God. That is the American dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, look, it wasn't so much of a surprise if you were watching that debate. This gentleman right down here, Ramaswamy, was the - basically the shine light. Everything seemed to revolve around him. And it shouldn't be to much of a surprise given, look where he was in February. He was at just zero percent of the vote. He wasn't even asked in the Fox News poll. Look where he is now at 11 percent, right on Ron DeSantis' heels for second place.

Look, Trump is still well ahead. But the fact is, Ramaswamy now a clear third place. And I think that is why there was so much of that spotlight on him last night.

BLACKWELL: Yes, there was also, after the moment between Ramaswamy and former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley. Let's watch this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at what Putin did today. He killed Prigozhin. When I was at the U.N., the Russian ambassador suddenly died. This guy is a murderer. And you are choosing a murderer over a (INAUDIBLE) American country.

RAMASWAMY: I wish you well in your future career on the boards of Lockheed and Raytheon.

HALEY: You know I'm not on the boards of Lockheed and Raytheon.

RAMASWAMY: But the fact of the matter -

HALEY: And you know you have brought down everybody on this stage.

RAMASWAMY: Boeing came off of it. But you've been pushing this lie - you've been pushing this lie all week.

HALEY: But you know what, you -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: There were a lot of really passionate responses about that aid for Ukraine. A dividing line for the party.

ENTEN: Absolutely right. And, you know, when we look at this number right here, you see this 11 percent. The other thing you should keep in mind is that a lot of Republican voters don't know who Vivek Ramaswamy is. In fact, 50 percent - 50 percent can't actually hold -- don't actually hold an opinion on him at this point. So, the fact is, the other candidates feel like, you know what, I want to potentially knock him down now when there are a lot of people who don't know who he is. They want them to form new opinions of him or opinions that haven't even been held before.

And if you look right here, you know, you talk about Ukraine and foreign policy and how much is that dividing the party right now. How much is the U.S. doing to help Ukraine? This is among Republicans. The majority, 55 percent, say too much. But you see here, this about right, 23 percent. Too little, 17 percent. That is very, very close, that 55 percent. It's basically this very clear dividing line in the party about U.S. aid to Ukraine. And then here, the Republicans, U.S. should play a major or leader role in world affairs. We see still the majority, 61 percent of Republicans say yes. That's down from 87 percent 20 years ago, but still the majority of the Republicans say yes and that's what Nikki Haley was going after Ramaswamy on last night.

HARLOW: Yes, that's true, but Vivek's position on Ukraine funding is in line with the majority of Republican voters right now, which is interesting.

Yes, thank you.

ENTEN: Still is. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thanks, Harry. HARLOW: Thanks. Appreciate it.

BLACKWELL: Today, former President Trump is expected to surrender for the fourth time in five months. This time on charges related to his role in trying to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. Our coverage of this historic day continues just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:58:23]

BLACKWELL: On CNN THIS MORNING earlier this summer, David Culver reported on rescue efforts in southern California after a toxic algae outbreak was harming marine life. The fish in the area were eating the algae, which would travel up the food chain to dolphins and then to sea lions. And officials said they were receiving more than a thousand calls about hundreds of dead or sick mammals on the shores.

But now we have some good news. Some of those sea lions are finally returning to the ocean. You can see two of them here. There are still more than 50, though, sea lions at the Marine Mammal Care - go on sea lion - Center. They are waiting to be released once they are healthy again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN WARNER, CEO, MARINE MAMMAL CARE CENTER LOS ANGELES: This is the culmination of a lot of work, a lot of hours, a lot of sad days, a lot of just distressful animals that we see on the beaches. But when we witness these moments, it sort of makes it all worthwhile and helps us celebrate the work that we're doing, celebrate the support from the community that made it all possible and sort of fill up with the warm fuzziness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Love this so much. This is an animal story that I love. And don't love all animal stories. This is an animal story --

BLACKWELL: Yes, that's true. Neither do I. That's a good one.

HARLOW: Oh, neither do you?

Speaking of sea lions, remember this?

BLACKWELL: Oh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes, I do love the beach and I like a nice nap on the beach. Sometimes, though, there are just too many people. And maybe that's what set off these two sea lions on a beach near San Diego. Just imagine their little sea lion voices cursing these people out that's been chasing them.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Oh my gosh.

HARLOW: You got the news or what.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Just cursing these people out.

[09:00:04]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You would think the ocean would be big enough for all of us, but no.

BLACKWELL: Oh, man, that's what I -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Cursing sea lions.

BLACKWELL: When I see the video, it still gets me. When I see -

HARLOW: But that's got to live with you.

BLACKWELL: Like these like sea lions, like, the people are in the way. Oh, my gosh, it gets me every time.

HARLOW: Victor moments we will always remember. Cursing sea lions and you with the former vice president today. Yes, you can answer that.

BLACKWELL: Oh, yes, you can.

HARLOW: Yes, you can.

BLACKWELL: See -

HARLOW: Come back tomorrow?

BLACKWELL: Yes, I'll be here tomorrow. One more day.

HARLOW: One more day.

BLACKWELL: You'll have me?

HARLOW: I'm grateful for you.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's do it.

HARLOW: "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" is next.

[09:00:00]