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Trump Surrenders in Georgia 2020 Election Case; Hearing Monday on Moving Meadows' Case to Fed Court. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:00:25]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We begin today with this unprecedented image, the mugshot of the 45th president, the first mugshot of any current or former president ever in the history of this country.

Good morning, everyone. You're with us early. We are glad to have you. It's Friday, August 25th.

And new overnight, there are several fast-moving developments tied to Donald Trump's case in Georgia. The Trump campaign is already raising money off of that mugshot. And sources tell CNN that Trump made the decision to look defiant in the photo.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Also new overnight, three of his codefendants have turned themselves in over the past few hours, including Jeffrey Clark. He's the former DOJ official accused of playing a key role in the effort to overturn the election. We're now awaiting just two more surrenders as we are just hours from that deadline.

The first trial in the case is set for October 23rd, 59 days from now. One of the defendants, Kenneth Chesebro, asked for a speedy trial and D.A. Fani Willis said, game on. She also wants to try all the defendants beginning that day.

HARLOW: Also, Georgia secretary of state has been subpoenaed to testify against Mark Meadows on Monday. That is when a hearing will be held on whether Trump's former chief of staff can move his case to federal court.

BLACKWELL: And there is one codefendant who actually had to spend the night in jail, Harrison Floyd, the leader of Black Voters for Trump. He is left over after he failed to negotiate a bond agreement before surrendering. We are going to discuss all of this.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

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HARLOW: So, this morning, this is the photo that you are waking up to splashed across newspaper and television screens. It is Donald Trump's mugshot at the Fulton County jail and it is making the front page across the nation and really around the world. Trump only spent about 20 minutes in jail last night, he was already

-- he was arrested, he was booked as inmate P01135809.

BLACKWELL: And he's flaunting this mugshot now. He made a surprise return to Twitter, now known as X, the first time since he was banned after the January 6 insurrection. Trump posted his mugshot with the caption: election interference, never surrender.

But that post came about two hours after he actually surrendered, his fourth arrest in five months.

And new overnight, three more of Trump's codefendants have turned themselves in including former justice department official Jeffrey Clark. It means 17 of the 19 alleged coconspirators have now surrendered before the deadline. Again, that is noon today.

HARLOW: So, as you can see, there is a lot to get to. We're going to start off the program with Nick Valencia. He's at Fulton County jail.

What a night there last night, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What a night, Poppy. What a night. The scene outside the Fulton County jail was one for the history books. Donald Trump has been called many things in his lifetime and now he can be called inmate, adding to that list.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): A mugshot and inmate number P01135809 will forever be associated with the former president. Donald J. Trump was arrested on state charges related to election subversion in Georgia Thursday. He was booked and released on bond at the Fulton County jail.

The former president took to the right wing network Newsmax to discuss his surrender.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT (via telephone): A terrible experience. I came in, I was treated very nicely, but it is what it is. I took a mugshot, which I've never heard the words mugshot, they didn't teach me that at the Wharton School of Finance, and I had to go through a process which is election interference.

VALENCIA: Ahead of his surrender, Trump agreed to a $200,000 bond and other release conditions including not using social media to intimidate codefendants and witnesses in the case. This is the fourth criminal case filed against the former president this year.

TRUMP: What has taken place here is the travesty of justice. We did nothing wrong, I did nothing, wrong and everybody knows it.

VALENCIA: Trump continues to deny any wrongdoing in this case and the others.

TRUMP: This should never have happened. If you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. I thought the election was a rigged election, a stolen election. And I should have every right to do that, as you know.

VALENCIA: Trump shared his mugshot on his Truth Social and X account, formerly known as Twitter with the words election interference and never surrender below it.

[05:05:03]

It was his first tweet on X since January 8, 2021, two days after the insurrection.

The former president was not the only high-profile person to surrender on Thursday. Former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows surrendered himself to the Fulton County jail. He's been charged with violating Georgia's RICO Act and soliciting a public officer to violate their oath. He denies any wrongdoing.

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: A Fulton County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment.

VALENCIA: Just last week, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis charged Trump and 18 codefendants with meddling in the 2020 Georgia presidential election laws. On Thursday, the district attorney filed a motion requesting a trial date of October 23rd, 2023.

That date was set after Kenneth Chesebro, the codefendant who is considered the architect of the fake electors plot, requested a speedy trial as his right. His trial is set to begin on that date. Trump's attorneys say that he opposes the proposed trial date.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (on camera): And it has been a revolving door of activity here outside the Fulton County jail this week. Just two of the 19 codefendants remain, the clock is ticking for them to turn themselves in by today's noon deadline -- Victor, Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick Valencia, thank you so much for being there, not only this morning, but all week for us on this.

BLACKWELL: Joining us now, our national politics team leader for Bloomberg, Mario Parker, political columnist for "The Atlanta Journal Constitution", Patricia Murphy, and former Manhattan prosecutor, Jeremy Saland.

Welcome to you all.

Patricia, let me start with you. You are there in Georgia and you are outside of the Fulton County jail on Rice Street last night. There was a chanting. There was singing.

Give us an idea of the environment. What was -- what was it like there last night?

PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: Well, you know, it was just totally surreal. I would say that it was a combination of those Trump rallies that we used to see, with lots of pro-Trump signs, flags, supporters out there chanting his name, and then you combine that with what it felt like a funeral.

We had the former president come in in a huge motorcade with dozens of police officers on motorcycles, multiple black SUVs going in behind the gates. This heavily armored gates of the Fulton County jail.

You could have heard a pin drop when he drove through those gates. It was very quiet, very somber, and he was in and out pretty quickly. About 20 minutes. And then I would say the rest of the night, people felt pretty shell-shocked about what had happened.

HARLOW: Jeremy, explain to people why they might be thinking, why didn't he have a mugshot in the other three, why didn't he have an inmate number in the other three? What is different about Georgia last night?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: Well, in Georgia, this is a felony charge. Not that the others aren't felony charges, but it required to have those mugshot and fingerprints taken. It's different in certain states, they have different rules.

In Georgia they will release those, many states won't do that. So, it's not -- there is nothing atypical about what is happening and I was use the term of fairly mundane and normal, he's being treated like everyone else.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, one of the elements of several, it is different here, from the treatment of the Trump side of this was after the New York surrender and the surrender of the first federal charges, there was a Mar-a-Lago event.

There was a speech, the remarks. Last night, there are a few words on the tarmac and then he got back on the plane.

MARIO PARKER, NATIONAL POLITICS TEAM LEADER, BLOOMBERG: Yeah, well, it goes to the seriousness of the case, right? Those other cases, in Trump's mind at least, if he wins in 2024 from a political aspect, he can be pardon himself. Well, there is no room for him to do that with this particular case.

So, A, you see the serious of it, right? Recall, Victor, earlier in the week, he was supposed to have this press conference in Bedminster, so it shows that he is taking this very seriously.

HARLOW: I just thought the state charges, if convicted in New York, he would not be able to do with, either.

The -- if we could stay on the politics of this, he didn't give a speech, but they made T-shirts, $34 t-shirts that they are selling. We have seen after every indictment is polling goes up. Does it go up more now?

PARKER: And that's what they're counting on, right, because he is blurred lines, essentially, between this -- how his legal -- how he fights his legal battles and how he wages his 2024 come back. About an hour or so before he turned himself in, there were text messages that his campaign is sent out in his voice saying, this is my last text message to you before I'm arrested, right? It was a fundraising appeal.

The mugshot as well, going back on X, which we know is one of his familiar cudgels in a general election in which --

HARLOW: That was interesting, the first time since 2021 I think that he has gone on X.

PARKER: Exactly, exactly. And while he has Truth Social, this is a powerful weapon for him, right? For him to, again, bringing his a base in, but also wage attacks on his rivals.

BLACKWELL: Patricia, beyond Trump's accusations of lies about the other states in Michigan, in Arizona, in Wisconsin, he personalized his fight in Georgia, the videos, focusing in on Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman. What does this mean for those people, those voters, for Fulton County that this happened last night?

MURPHY: Well, it obviously depends on how you feel about President Trump. Donald Trump still obviously have supporters in Fulton County. Those supporters do not believe these charges against him. They have been with him from day one and as he continues to say that this was rigged and stolen, they believe him.

However, I think that for the rest of Fulton County voters, there has always been a question. Are you just allowed to do this? Can you just say the election was stolen when it wasn't?

Can you spread rumors? Can you lead to people's death threats? Can you lead to absolute chaos in an entire state for months on end? Is there -- is there any consequence for that?

And so, this tells us that, yes, there are consequences. No matter what happens with the trial, this is something that I don't think even Fulton County voters expected to see these kinds of consequences.

HARLOW: Let's talk about those voters, because that is what this is really about at the core of it. And Ruby Freeman, who's become this example of what those smears do to someone's life.

I think we have some sound to remind people of what she and Shaye Moss endured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBY FREEMAN, FORMER FULTON COUNTY ELECTION WORKER: There is no where I feel safe. Nowhere. Do you know how it feels to have the president of the United States target you? The president of the United States is supposed to represent every American. Not to target one. But he targeted me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: But then, Patricia Murphy, I want you to listen to what Trump said about 20 minutes inside jail. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A terrible experience. I came in, I was treated very nicely, but it is what it is. I took a mugshot, which I have never heard the word mugshot. That was -- they didn't teach me that at the Wharton School of Finance. And I have to go through a process. It's election interference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What is your take away from that? Just a reminder of the core of this for the people?

MURPHY: Well, I would say that the message here is that no man is above the law. That is the message that Fani Willis has said since January of 2021. The message she wanted to send that it doesn't matter if you are a person living on the streets of Fulton County or if you are the former president. If she believes that you may have committed a crime, and she believes that she can gather the evidence to prove that, she will bring it charges against you. That's her county, she will bring those charges and she has done that.

BLACKWELL: So, Fani Willis gave all of these defendants two weeks. We are coming down to the last few hours. We saw several of the co- defendants during themselves in overnight, including Jeffrey Clark who played a major role. He was one of the DOJ officials who try to push this through. Just a few left. But there is one who is sitting in jail who -- this is Harrison Floyd.

Talk to us what happened overnight and what happens if we don't get those last few in the next few hours.

SALAND: Well, anyone who's coming in --

BLACKWELL: Those last few.

SALAND: Right, other than the obvious, you are planning out what your bond is going to be. You're coming to that agreement, that consent bond, and the judge says that is okay. If you're not doing that, you're not surrendering yourself, then the reality of it is that a war is coming. No one is above the law on that front, and that war could authorize law enforcement to make an arrest.

Theoretically if you are out of state, you'd get a warrant from that state, and they would hold you there until you had been brought back to the state of Georgia which, in and of itself, could take time.

So, this is -- this is real. This does not pretend. This is not bravado. If you failed to show up, there will be a warrant. They're going to show up. They're not going to take that risk.

HARLOW: We have a lot to talk about ahead, including how quickly this trial might begin. BLACKWELL: Yeah, 59 days from now, the first trial.

HARLOW: Yeah.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you all.

HARLOW: Fulton County district attorney wants to get Donald Trump's trial underway, as we were saying, 59 days, not 60. So, less than two months. Is that possible for a RICO case like this?

BLACKWELL: And just in, an update from Maui. The number of people missing after the wildfires has now dropped dramatically. We'll explain that, next.

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[05:18:38]

HARLOW: Another chapter in the Georgia 2020 election case will begin on Monday. So, that is when lawyers for former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows are going to argue before a judge that his case should be moved out of state court and into federal court. And that matters a lot.

Meadows faces two felony counts for his alleged role in trying to overturn the election results in the state. His mugshot released hours before Trump's on Thursday.

Back with us, Patricia Murphy is with us. Also joining us, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor from Fulton County, Clint Rucker. Still at the table, Jeremy Saland.

Appreciate it, guys, very much.

We're just talking about this in the break, Jeremy, about why moving to federal court, we won't know on Monday, but you think there's a good chance that this thing stays for Meadows in state court, which is maybe more precarious for them?

SALAND: Well, it's definitely more precarious and their exposure is more significant as well. But as we, know it is a five year minimum if convicted.

But keep in mind, it's not -- it's not the issue of whether or not Mark Meadows is to serve the federal government, the question really becomes, as that officer was what he was doing part of his role? In other words, was it consistent with him being the chief of staff and counting electoral votes, challenging electoral votes, challenging electors, challenging the state of Georgia.

That's not his role, that's not his role.

[05:20:00]

There are people who have that role. That is not his. So that's the problem. All you need is a colorable defense. There have to -- HARLOW: What does that mean, colorable?

SALAND: So, it doesn't have to be defense that is going to win unequivocally, but on its face, that is not your job. What he's doing is well beyond, and that's where it becomes problematic.

BLACKWELL: How much do you think we'll learn on Monday, beyond what's in the indictment? There may be some evidence that we hear in trying to keep this in state court?

SALAND: Yeah, but I think it is going to be really tight because you don't want to have a trial within a trial. As you may learn and we know that people are being subpoenaed. We know the chief -- we know from the state department of Florida -- pardon --

BLACKWELL: Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

SALAND: Correct.

So, we know there will be evidence, but Fani Willis does not want this to expand beyond the scope of that hearing. But then you're creating too much material later on potentially, too, for impeachment to challenge those witnesses later on. So, I expect it to be very limited.

BLACKWELL: Okay.

HARLOW: So, Clint, in your former role, you spent a fair amount of time, I would assume, right, working with clients, et cetera, in the jail there, in the Fulton County jail? You heard Trump say it was a terrible experience. I mean, he was in and out in 20 minutes or so.

What's your takeaway from last night to see, for the first time ever, a former president of United States go through this process?

CLINT RUCKER, FORMER FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA PROSECUTOR: Right. Well, first of all, good morning you guys.

HARLOW: Good morning.

RUCKER: And thank you for having me.

I want to tell you that, listen, the former president's experience for the 30 years that I've been a practicing attorney here in Fulton County was one of the smoothest that I have ever witnessed. By all accounts he was, perhaps, inside of the actual facility for less than 30 minutes, which is unprecedented in my opinion. But, given his status, I certainly understand the concerns of the sheriff, the concerns of the Secret Service, to make sure that this process, which is the same process that each and every defendant who is charged with a crime in Fulton County goes through was smooth, seamless, and has a huge safety concern.

So I understand his comments, but certainly, for most defendants, they don't get the same treatment. BLACKWELL: Clint, I want to stay with you on this trial for Kenneth

Chesebro, starting as we said in 59 days. And what that takes -- what inside the office that preparation looks like now? I mean, the original request was for March of next year. That was unlikely for everything that we heard.

And now, this first case, not all 19, but this one starts in fewer than two months. What does it look like inside the D.A.'s office?

RUCKER: Right, right. Well, let me tell you, we are going to witness a very high stakes level of chess that will be played by participants on both sides. We're going to be seeing lawyering at its best and it has already started. We've seen moves made by the district attorney, Fani Willis, we have seen it move made by various defense counsel. It is going to continue.

The move to file demands for a speedy trial is ingrained in our Constitution and it puts the state in a posture that the clock is ticking. A failure to bring a trial within a prescribed period of time, which for us here in Georgia, the statute is very clear. It's two terms of court, each term is two months each. And so the clock is ticking for the D.A.'s office to get prepared and get ready for trial.

I will give you this insight, though, having worked there for 25 years. I worked with Fani Willis. That team is already prepared.

They were prepared for trial the day after the indictment came down. They have got their witnesses lined up, they have got their trial notes prepared. And certainly by that October date, which of the district attorney has now countered, the defense move for Chesebro, they will be ready.

HARLOW: You know, Patricia, one thing that is so interesting about this case is that if you do get all 19 tried together, six of them are lawyers. So that just makes it very interesting as they are making these legal arguments again, to move to federal court to get the defendants right to a speedy trial, et cetera.

I want to listen to what one of John Eastman -- who is a lawyer for Trump and one of the real architects of the fake elector scheme, what his lawyer, Harvey Silverglate, told our Jake Tapper yesterday about why Eastman, he thinks deserves a totally solo look at everything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARVEY SILVERGLATE, JOHN EASTMAN'S ATTORNEY: Eastman is in a very different position from every other defendant in that he was acting as a lawyer, giving legal advice. He was not part of a conspiracy, assuming there even was a conspiracy. We are going to move to sever his case from the others and move for a separate trial, which means that we want to be tried alone.

[05:25:02]

And we believe that the trial of Eastman alone will take about three weeks. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Trish, don't things like that, moves like that slow all of this down? When you're trying to get to trial in 59 days, not to mention, by the way, the jury process, picking a jury. That is going to be long.

Doesn't that slow things down?

MURPHY: Well, I think just the very nature of the fact that there are 19 defendants with 19 separate counsels and 19 separate perspectives about what is best for their own clients, I think that has every potential to slow things down as well. It does raise huge questions for the role of lawyers in their clients and exactly what is something that would be considered criminal conduct. But John Eastman wasn't just giving legal advice, he also appeared remotely at a state Senate hearing in Georgia. His words carry significant weight.

So he was not simply sending emails and having meetings with Donald Trump, he was playing a public role in a public hearing in Georgia and giving advice to state senators that even the Department of Justice at the time he was saying was inaccurate and false.

BLACKWELL: Jeremy, is there any benefit to these defendants to be tried with other codefendants? We are hearing about these efforts to them to be severed and try to independently, but do you see any pairings that make sense from a defense perspective?

SALAND: If I'm on a defense team for many of these individual, especially the lower people on the proverbial food chain, I want to separate and sever myself. I don't want to be part because there's so much conduct well beyond I was acknowledgeable about, certainly well beyond that I may have taken a part in. So, it makes sense for them to try to sever.

That becomes somewhat of a nightmare to a certain extent for the prosecution because a lot of the overlap, even if it is not exactly the same testimony and evidence, you're going to have to do it multiple times. You don't want to do that if you get so many bites of the apple for different defenses.

HARLOW: It also might not be 19 defendants when they reach trial. If she can get some to flip, we might have a much smaller pool here.

SALAND: Absolutely. That may be in part some of the strategy for the people at the bottom of that pyramid, because I don't want that five years in prison, if I'm a small piece to a much bigger puzzle.

HARLOW: All right. Thank you so much for the expertise, guys.

BLACKWELL: Just ahead, what U.S. intel is now saying about the Russian mercenary leader, Prigozhin, and a plane crash near Moscow.

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