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Former President Trump's Mugshot Taken When He Turned Himself into Fulton County Jail for Processing in Election Interference Case; Former President Trump Describes His Experience Turning Himself into Fulton County Jail for Prosecuting; Trump Becomes First Former US President with a Mug Shot; Three Men Exonerated after Wrongfully Convicted. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I believe this is a very sad day for America. This should never happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 45th president of the United States has now been arrested for the fourth time in year on criminal charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the picture that will probably stand the test of time for Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since this had gone out, he has fundraised off of it.

TRUMP: Terrible experience. I came in. I was treated very nicely. But it is what it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not support a convicted felon for position of president of the United States, regardless who that person is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When all this is over, I think Donald Trump is going to do go down as one the biggest mistakes this country ever made.

TRUMP: You should be able to challenge an election. I thought the election was a rigged election, a stolen election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question to the Republicans who are willing to vote for this guy, would you hire someone with a mugshot? Would your hire somebody with 91 charges against them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not angry at the prosecutor. I'm angry at Donald Trump for putting us in this position.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is ridiculous. We are going to do our duty to get the answers the American people deserve for this ridiculous indictment that's taking place in Georgia.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, America is waking up to former President Trump's historic mugshot, and truly unprecedented. He was arrested, booked, and then photographed at the Fulton County jail as inmate P-01135809. He was only at the jail for about 20 minutes. He turned himself in on those 13 felony charges for trying to overturn his election loss in Georgia. This is Trump's fourth arrest in just five months, but it's the first time he's had his mugshot taken. And this morning the photo is on the front page of newspapers and tabloids across the nation and around the world. Sources tell CNN Trump made the intentional decision to look defiant in that mugshot.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: And Trump flaunted the photo on X, formerly known as Twitter. He posted it just two hours after he surrendered with the caption "Never Surrender." It's Trump's first post since he was banned after the January 6th insurrection and then later reinstated.

New overnight, three more of Trump's co-defendants have turned themselves in, including former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark. That means all but two of Trump's 18 co-defendants have now surrendered before today's noon eastern deadline.

HARLOW: Kristen Holmes joins us live in New Jersey near Trump's golf course. So he is back there. We have that reporting that it was intentional to make that look defiant, the mugshot. But what is his mood? Because as Victor pointed out earlier, he didn't hold a rally, he didn't make remarks after this. That's different than after some of the other indictments.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy and Victor, look, we know from talking to sources close to Trump that doesn't enjoy this. That even though they are taking this media narrative, trying to take control of it, spin it, this is not something he likes, getting arrested, being paraded around, getting a mugshot. He believes that it is beneath him, and that is what multiple Trump sources have told me.

But when it comes to that mugshot, it is no surprise that this was somewhat staged, that he had several conversations with advisors about how exactly to make himself look. Would it be smiling? Should it be, as you said, defiant. And that is what they landed on.

And just a reminder here, when he was arraigned in New York and they talked about him into that courthouse, they spent a long time talking about what exactly his facial expressions would be then. Donald Trump cares about the perception of Donald Trump. And one thing that I thought was very interesting is we normally hear him talking about, saying this is election interference, saying that he is defiant. But he did talk openly about the experience at the Fulton County jail, saying it wasn't a good one. Take a listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Terrible experience. I came in. I was treated very nicely, but it is what it is. I took a mugshot, which I never heard the words "mugshot." They didn't teach me that at the Wharton School of Finance. And I have to go through a process -- election interference.

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HOLMES: And you can hear it in his voice. He is, obviously, not excited when he is talking about having to go through this and dealing with this. But I will say his team was very happy about the fact that that mugshot looked the way it did. They already started fundraising off of it, and as you said, he's already put it on Twitter, again, trying to take control of that media narrative.

HARLOW: Kristen Holmes, thank you.

Joining us now, former attorney for the House January 6th committee Temidayo Aganga-Williams, CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, CNN senior political commentator and host of "The Axe Files" podcast David Axelrod, and Jen Jordan, CNN contributor, former Georgia state senator who testified, by the way, in this probe.

David, I want to start with you. You are so good at giving us the big picture of where we are. I really believe so many people have become numb to this. This has never happened before in American history. A mugshot like that never happened before.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean, it's stunning, as has been every chapter of this sad saga.

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But the thing that is concerning, Poppy, to me is that we had a bunch of candidates stand on a stage the other night, and even if they couldn't defend Trump's actions and behavior, they defended the narrative that the system somehow is weaponized, that the system is corrupt. And my concern is that this has taken root, and that damage will be there beyond Donald Trump whatever happens in this election. This is a very, very dangerous -- not just sad, but dangerous time for our country.

BLACKWELL: Scott Jennings, who was with us last hour, said that Republicans will not vote for a nominee who has been convicted. I wonder if you agree if there are people who -- consider what we saw on the stage at the debate where those six candidates said yes, if he is convicted, I will support him as nominee. Do you think voters will split from those?

JEN JORDAN, TESTIFIED IN TRUMP GEORGIA INVESTIGATION: There will be some. There are going to be folks who, if someone is convicted of a felony --

BLACKWELL: Can he win the nomination?

JORDAN: Well, yes, he can win the nomination because you are talking about the primary voters that come out, and that's what's problematic for the Republican Party right now, which is the folks that control their party, the folks that self-identify as Republicans, are people who support Trump and really do see this prosecution as political in nature. And I'll tell you that in Georgia on the ground, there are elected Republicans who are pushing that narrative every day. And so when you see people who are legitimate elected officials who are saying this and attacking the district attorney and saying it's political, that really just bolsters Trump's claims. So I think he can absolutely win the nomination.

HARLOW: As a prosecutor, let's look at the Georgia case that he was arrested for last night, one of the co-defendants of the 18 co- defendants wants this trial in two months. And he is going to get it. Do the rest of them stick with him and actually go to trial with Trump, or do you see a number of them with far less resources than Trump has flipping on him?

TEMIDAYO AGANGA-WILLIAMS, PARTNER, SELENDY GAY ELSBERG: I think --

HARLOW: Or pleading out?

AGANGA-WILLIAMS: Yes. I think each defendant is really going to take stock of where they stand, what kind of pressure they are on, and how they see the evidence and how it holds up against them, because they are all going to be not similarly situated. But I think it's a really strategic choice. Going quickly has its down sides. That's less time to consider the evidence, perhaps less time for making pretrial motions. You really don't have the same amount of time to structure your case and build the best defense possible.

But taking his time has its downside as well. It makes it more likely you're going to end up at trial potentially with former President Trump, which I think is the worst-case scenario if you are one of those other defendants, because that means the full scope of this case is going to be on display for a jury, and you are going to be right there next to the former president, and that's always tough. You don't want to be next to the big boss. You want to be seen as far away from him as possible.

BLACKWELL: Let's put the 19 defendants back up. And Elie, when we look at below the Trump, Eastman, Jenna Ellis level, and you look at kind of the names people don't know, how influential will the Chesebro trial be on what they do next? If you are considering a plea bargain, a plea deal, do you say, no, I will hold off until I watch this trial?

ELIE HONIG, SENIOR CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A hundred percent. Why not? You get a free look at the evidence, first of all. What a tactical advantage. Temidayo is a lawyer, imagine that advantage, getting to sit back and watch the whole trial play out, what worked, what didn't work. Let's see how this goes. Whatever happens in this first trial, assuming it goes as expected, that doesn't have any binding presidential value. Every jury trial stands on its own. But you can bet they're going to be watching.

And as a prosecutor, I was borderline obsessed with trying everyone at once. I wanted to get it over with, I wanted to show the jury the whole scope, I didn't want to chop up the case into little bits. And I didn't want the other defense lawyers for the other co-defendants sitting in the gallery watching every move I made. So this is a really important move by Kenneth Chesebro, bold move. And it's going to have major implications for the other 18.

AXELROD: If this accelerates that trial, Trump has inextricably bound his campaign and election with his legal status, and he has an imperative to try and push these cases as far beyond the primaries and the election, if possible, as he can. He could sew up this election, or this primary election, he could sew up this nomination relative to this discussion we were having earlier before people ever know whether he was convicted or not. And so you could be headed to the Republican National Convention with a newly convicted nominee. I mean, you talk about moments we've never encountered before. How about that one?

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HONIG: David, if I can ask, maybe, you a question. What if he is not convicted? What if he goes to trial before the election, and there is a hung jury?

AXELROD: I think about that all the time. You know, the New York case is supposed to come up in March. We will see what happens with that one. But I think that anything that vindicates Trump will give -- will put wind in his sails, even if there are other trials still pending.

HARLOW: I do want to play your guest on "The Axe Files," podcast, the latest episode is Sally yates. People know her name, but just to remind them, she was the acting attorney general 2017, she was fired by Trump. Let's listen to part of what she told you.

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SALLY YATES, FORMER DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's incredibly corrosive. And it has impacts beyond just what happens in an Donald Trump case. It has an impact when DOJ is prosecuting the run of the mill cases, too, and jurors have not a healthy skepticism but a real cynicism and distrust about their law enforcement institutions. That's incredibly corrosive, whether it's the Supreme Court or the Department of Justice or a free press or all of these democratic institutions that are so important for the fabric of our country. I kind of thought during the Trump administration the fabric was fraying. It feels like it's just ripping right now more than fraying.

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HARLOW: David, what is she talking about, the "it" there?

AXELROD: I think she is talking about faith in institutions, faith in the legitimacy of the criminal justice system, the legitimacy of our democratic institutions. Trump's political project now relies on tearing down public faith in all of these, because you have to believe his narrative or the narrative of these institutions that he broke the rules, that he broke the law. So every day that he echoes his message and others support it is a blow. This is the point I was making before.

We should point out that Sally Yates also was for years and years the U.S. attorney in northern Georgia and is very familiar with that terrain. And also a very, very celebrated prosecutor of public corruption cases, took a lot of heat down there for some of the corruption cases she prosecuted. So she knows from whence she speaks on these matters.

BLACKWELL: That's important for us there. Jen, Alec -- David, I should say -- Elie, and Temidayo, thank you so much.

HARLOW: You were thinking Axelrod.

BLACKWELL: I was thinking Axe. Then I was like, don't just call him Axe.

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HARLOW: That's what we call him, that's what we call him not on T.V. Thanks.

BLACKWELL: As we mentioned, Fani Willis pushing to get Donald Trump's trial underway in about 60 days, 59, to be exact. Is that even possible for a case of this magnitude? We'll ask a former prosecutor who worked with Willis at the Fulton County D.A.'s office next.

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REP. KEN BUCK, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN OF COLORADO: And I think they overcharged this case by having 19 defendants. She's counting on 16 of these defendants, 15 of these defendants pleading guilty and becoming state evidence against Donald Trump. I'm not sure that's going to happen in a case like this. This is not RICO. Has to do with organized crime, if this is a crime at all. I think it's a disorganized crime.

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: That was Republican Congressman Ken Buck, a former prosecutor, telling Jake Tapper last night that he thinks District Attorney Fani Willis overcharged with Rico. Joining us now is former Fulton County Senior Assistant District Attorney Charlie Bailey.

He previously worked with Fani Willis on a past case that brought Rico charges. Also with us, is CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Mr. Bailey, let me start with you and your thoughts on what we heard from Congressman Buck there.

CHARLIE BAILEY, FULTON COUNTER SENIOR ASSISTANT, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, all due respect to the Congressman, I don't think he knows as much about RICO prosecutions as you know, how good or bad criminals are at attempting to commit their crimes doesn't determine whether they get charged with a conspiracy.

And what's clear in this case is you had several called mini conspiracies going on, all towards the same end, which was to alter the electoral votes sent to Washington, DC. From the state of Georgia.

And so, Fani's position here as the elected District Attorney of Fulton County, the largest county in the state, containing the capital city of our state, is to protect the people of Georgia. And the actions that were taken by these different individuals violated the law, but more importantly, violated the rights of the people of Georgia.

And she's standing up for them and calling it like it is and holding them accountable.

BLACKWELL: So, John, the big event that happened obviously yesterday, the President turning himself in, we're looking ahead to arraignments in early September. What are the concerns from a security perspective as we look ahead to that flurry of activity?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think yesterday was a dry run about getting him in and getting them out. And that all went just as timed and without incident. The issue with the arraignment is how many people are going to be at that arraignment.

You have people who are looking to sever, but at this point, you're potentially going to be arraigning a lot of people. So, it just further complicates it. But this is something I've been planning for a long time.

BLACKWELL: So, they're ready.

MILLER: Yeah.

BLACKWELL: Charlie, to you. The October 23rd trial date. This was, of course, prompted by the speedy trial request of Kenneth Chesebro. DA. Willis then picked this date; a judge approved it for just him. Take us inside that office. What it looks like now is that this is happening in two months.

BAILEY: Well, knowing Fani as I do, they were ready to try this case well before they indicted it. They know more about this case and its evidence than any of the criminal defense attorneys. That's why it's quite the gamble to file a speedy trial demand, as Mr. Chesebro's attorneys have done.

So, they're getting ready for trial, and they're going to be ready for trial, and whether that'll be just Mr. Chesebro, whether it'll be the whole thing, whether it'll be some others with them, that'll be determined by the judge, but you don't bring any case without being ready for trial.

You certainly don't bring this case. And Fani Willis doesn't bring cases like this without being ready for trial when they indict it. BLACKWELL: We're just a few within 4 hours now, John, from the deadline for everybody to turn themselves in, there are two people outstanding. There's one who spent the night inside the Rice Street Jail, and that's Harrison Floyd, who was the leader of black voices for Trump. Why is he still there?

MILLER: So, he may be spending more than the night. He's got two problems, a little one and a big one. The small problem is, apparently, he didn't go to the courthouse with his attorneys ahead of time to arrange a bond and then go to the jail simply to be processed.

He showed up as someone for the district attorney who had a warrant in this case and had not arranged a bond. So, once you're in jail without that prearranged, that means you're going to have to wait till you can go before a judge and make that bail application and arrange bond and so on.

That's the little problem.

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The big problem is he popped for a warrant when they ran those prints at the jail. He's wanted by federal authorities for not appearing in a case in Maryland where two FBI agents working in the Jack Smith probe, not the Fulton County probe, served him with a grand jury subpoena, and he allegedly assaulted one of them.

He says they didn't identify themselves. They followed him up the stairs of his house. He didn't know who they were. He told police allegedly; that they were lucky they weren't shot. The FBI alleges they identified themselves. He chest bumped one of them, knocking him backwards.

But either way, he didn't show up in court. So even if the bond is arranged in this case, he's probably going to be held until he's turned over to federal authorities in Atlanta to be transported for that case.

BLACKWELL: So, he's in for a while, probably.

MILLER: I think he's got the weekend, at least, unless they pull all this together in a different way.

BLACKWELL: Charlie, last question for you. D.A. Willis has been labeled as a partisan, and therefore this indictment is partisan, in part because of a fundraiser that she held for your campaign for lieutenant governor. You're running against the current lieutenant governor, Burt Jones.

Do you regret that fundraiser?

BAILEY: No, I don't regret that fundraiser, no more than I regret fundraisers that many of my friends helped me mean. The bottom line, Victor, is Fonnie endorsed me and was supporting me before I even got in the lieutenant governor's race when I was running for attorney general. Before Burt Jones was running for lieutenant governor. Her support for me, her giving me money, hosting a fundraiser doesn't

have anything to do with anything other than that we're friends and we worked together and she believed in me. But you know, the judge made the decision the judge made, and that's his call to make. But nothing about Fani's case has changed.

She's been following the evidence since she said she started this investigation, and brought the charges. When we sit here and we talk about okay Democrats can't indict Republicans and Republicans can't indict Democrats. We're really straying into authoritarian territory. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter your political party.

The only thing that matters under the rule of law is what you did or did not do.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, I will add here the context that Burt Jones was one of the alleged fake electors, as he is now Lieutenant Governor and you were running against him. I appreciate your time. Charlie Bailey and John Miller, always good to have you.

MILLER: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Poppy

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Fascinating conversation, and important questions. Okay, ahead for us, a special report a Conviction Integrity Unit in the Queens District Attorney's Office reinvestigating cases, securing the release of more than 100 people wrongfully convicted. One of those Shamel Capers who had his murder conviction vacated after spending eight years behind bars.

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SHAMEL CAPIERS, EXONERATED VICTIM: I was just worrying about not being able to be there for my mom. So, me not being there, I feel like almost like I felt. And I didn't even do anything wrong.

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EXONERATED VICTIM #3: Those years is not, and I repeat, they were not kind.

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HARLOW: Those three men you just heard of. They just spent a combined 56 years in prison for crimes the District Attorney in Queens, New York, now says they did not commit.

Their convictions were overturned yesterday after newly discovered evidence was found by a specialized team within the Queen's DA's office called the Conviction Integrity Unit, or CIU. The same CIU has now won over 100 wrongful conviction claims since it was started just three years ago.

And one of those cases was the case of Shamel Capers, who spent eight years behind bars starting at just 16 years old. For Capers and his mother, it has been a long road to justice.

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CAPERS: My first night was one of my longest nights. I'm just in shock.

HARLOW: Shamel Capers was 16 years old when he was arrested. Charged with the murder of a teenage girl, and convicted, he was sentenced to 15 years to life behind bars.

CAPERS: I don't even know how to use the phone just to call my mom.

HARLOW: What is it like hearing Shamel describe what he went through?

TIDLEK CAPERS, MOTHER OF SHAMEL CAPERS: It's hard. It's hard. It hurts.

HARLOW: In May of 2013, 14-year-old Deja Robinson was riding a city bus just like this one home from a Sweet 16 party. Then eleven bullets were indiscriminately fired into the bus, and one hit her right in the head. She died right here on the street corner.

FRIEND OF DEJA: Deja is a happy spoiled little girl, loving. She was so friendly. She was kind.

HARLOW: Prosecutors believed Capers was involved in this gang related shooting that killed Robinson, even though Capers insisted he was never in a gang. Did you shoot at the bus?

SHAMEL CAPERS: No, not at all.

HARLOW: Did you have a weapon ever that day?

SHAMEL CAPERS: No, not at all.

HARLOW: While Capers was in New York's most notorious prisons, Ryker's island and Sing Sing, his mother, Tidlek, was desperate to prove his innocence.

TIDLEK CAPERS: We had so many phone calls, so many visits.

SHAMEL CAPERS: When they took me away from her, it was one of the hardest things for me. I was just worrying about not being able to be there for my mom. So me not being there, I feel like almost like I felt. And I didn't even do anything wrong.

HARLOW: Deja's, mom said this in court. Just because you're going to jail, that's not justice for me. You still get calls, visits. But me? My daughter is dust right now. I have to go to the cemetery.

SHAMEL CAPERS: I totally understand her pain. I really do. I totally understand. But now look at it.

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