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Trump To Skip Second GOP Debate For Detroit Prime-Time Speech; F-35 Fighter Jet Debris Field Found After Pilot Safely Ejected; Inside Look At Wagner's Presence In The Central African Republic. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired September 19, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:40]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, just like the first GOP debate, former President Trump plans to skip the second one, too. It's scheduled for next Wednesday at the Reagan Presidential Library in California. Instead, Trump plans to head to Detroit to give a prime- time speech to more than 500 workers, including current and former members of the auto workers union. Of course, it's the union currently on strike.

We're also learning this morning the Trump campaign has produced a radio ad that will begin running today in Detroit and Toledo, Ohio to align the former president with those autoworkers. The campaign is also considering the possibility of having Trump make an appearance at the picket line.

Joining us now is the writer of "Very Serious" newsletter, Josh Barro. And CNN political commentator and former special adviser to President Obama, Van Jones.

Van, I'm fascinated by the economic elements of what's going on between the Big Three and the UAW right now. But I think the political elements are enormous and that is rank and file union workers have not been as aligned with Democrats since the emergence of Trump as they traditionally have been. And this is a moment that creates potentially an opportunity.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's a big tug-of-war. Union Joe versus the blue-collar billionaire. I mean, there's this demographic which for a long time was presumably blue -- blue-collar, blue voters. That was presumptive.

And then in 2016, that blue wall cracked and it cracked because of Donald Trump's appeal on NAFTA and that kind of stuff. And suddenly, there's a jump ball.

And this year is maybe the biggest labor upsurge in a generation.

POPPY HARLOW: Um-hum. JONES: There's 300,000-plus American workers on strike right now from Hollywood workers to people on the -- on the front lines in the auto industry. And labor matters, unions matter, and they are a jump ball. And so, you see Donald Trump reached in there and tried to grab at the heartstrings of those workers.

Now, the reality is none of his policies are going to be great for those workers. Joe Biden's got policies that would be fantastic for those workers.

HARLOW: But --

JONES: But right now, it's more about the optics.

HARLOW: But not all of them. I mean, this is the -- you brought this up with the acting labor secretary that was so interesting -- Julie Su -- and that is the issue of the Biden push for electric vehicles.

JONES: Um-hum.

HARLOW: I mean, this internal memo from May from the UAW reads, "The federal government is pouring billions into the electric vehicle transition with no strings attached and no commitment to workers. We want to see national leadership have our back on this before we make any commitments."

And that is what Republican politicians are capitalizing on, saying they're putting the green economy ahead of you.

JOSH BARRO, AUTHOR, "VERY SERIOUS" NEWSLETTER ON SUBSTACK: Yeah, that's what Trump is trying to make the issue of this strike about. And, I mean, the green vehicle transition is putting a significant financial strain on the -- on the automakers and requiring large capital investments. That's money that can't (INAUDIBLE) immediately.

HARLOW: Explain to people why.

BARRO: Because they have to -- they have to build all of these new factories and facilities, essentially. They need to change --

HARLOW: Yeah, and often they're non-unionized workers doing that.

BARRO: Well, and then that's the second part of it. The electric vehicles are less labor-intensive to build than combustion engine vehicles. And it's unclear exactly how much of that supply chain will be unionized on the way up. And so, some of that you can work with the union on and you could have policies that would promote more unionization there, but there's still the bigger issues of money going into capital instead of labor and ending up with a less labor- intensive process.

And so, that is the opportunity for Trump to capitalize on here. The problem is that he's not really fluent in this language and he's been out there attacking the head of the United Auto Workers union. I don't see any clear --

[07:35:03]

JONES: Not smart.

BARRO: -- indication that the rank and file is upset with their own leader right now.

I mean, ultimately, he's a business leader and I don't think it's his first language to be talking to labor about why labor needs to get what it -- what it -- what it deserves in a negotiation with business. And only so much of this can be ascribed to public policy. But I think that is where he sees the opening there.

MATTINGLY: But -- I mean, at the margins, if he's pulling off a couple of percentage points here and there from traditional Democratic voters, it's a win for him, whether or not he can speak the language or not.

I want to ask you, Josh -- actually, both of you. The back-and-forth on abortion that we've seen in the Republican primary has been fascinating based on historical precedent but also what it means for now.

I want to play what former President Trump said and then the response from Ron DeSantis.

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: DeSanctus is willing to sign a five-week and six-week ban.

KRISTEN WELKER, MODERATOR, NBC "MEET THE PRESS": Would you support that? Do you think that goes too far?

TRUMP: I think what he did is a terrible thing and a terrible mistake. Other than certain parts of the country, you can't -- you're not going to win on this issue. But you will win on this issue when you come up with the right number of weeks.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Any time he did a deal with Democrats, whether it was on budget, whether it was on the criminal justice First Step Act, they ended up taking him to the cleaners. He's going to make the Democrats happy with respect to right to life. I think all pro-lifers should know that he's preparing to sell you out."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARRO: I mean, I think that -- I think Democrats are reasonably afraid that Trump will succeed in muddying the waters on this issue. Trump knows that this issue has been a political loser for Republicans. There was news reporting about his instant reaction to the Dobbs decision and how he basically was just focused on how this was going to be a huge political problem.

And Democrats have arguments to make about this is all his fault. He appointed these people to the judiciary who brought down this decision. He's made comments in the past about you need to punish women for having abortions. So they can make an argument that he's just -- he's trying to pander to voters who are -- who are pro-choice and ultimately, he's going to do what a Republican president would do and try to restrict abortion.

But he's getting to the more -- to the more -- the politically stronger ground here and he's only helped by the fact that he will be attacked from his right. If he gets pro-life activists attacking him as a squish -- if he has Ron DeSantis attacking him as a squish, that only helps him in a general election to say see --

HARLOW: Yeah.

BARRO: -- I bucked my party --

HARLOW: Yep.

BARRO: -- on one of the most unpopular positions of my party.

I think it's a -- I think it's a political problem for Democrats.

HARLOW: Does he get to have it both ways? Does he get to say hey, conservative voters, I told you I would appoint pro-life justices to the Supreme Court and I got three. Oh, and by the way, the way that Republicans -- the other Republicans are dealing with it now with these six-week bans, et cetera -- that's not right either. So I get it both -- I win both ways.

JONES: That's what he's trying to do. You know, the Republicans are the dog that caught the car and now the car is backing up over them over and over again. That's the problem the Republicans have on this issue. They got what they wanted but what they wanted is so unpopular that it's -- you know, it cost them full control of Congress and a bunch of other stuff.

And more pain to come for Republicans in general because there's more pain to come for women in general. You have these horror stories that are coming out at the local level of people who have ectopic pregnancies, almost dying. Having to go to a different state. Doctors are afraid to help women.

So this -- which the reason this is an issue isn't for some ideological reason. It's because actual human beings are suffering and afraid. Actual doctors are scared to help save lives because they don't want to go to prison in multiple states across the country. So this is a catastrophe that's unrolling across the country.

And so, Donald Trump is smart enough to know he doesn't want to be a part of that so he is going to -- since he lies about the lies that the lies about with this whole thing, he's going to try to play both sides against them and run up the middle of that.

MATTINGLY: All right. Van, Josh, thanks, guys.

HARLOW: Thanks, guys. MATTINGLY: We appreciate it.

HARLOW: The big question this morning: why did nearly -- a nearly $100 million F-35 fighter jet crash -- first disappear and then crash in South Carolina? Why did the government need the public's help to find it? That's ahead.

MATTINGLY: And a high school band director tazed by police after officers say he refused to stop a performance. I want to show you the newly released police body camera footage. That's ahead.

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[07:43:09]

HARLOW: So take a look. This is new video just into CNN. This is debris from an F-35 fighter jet that we told you yesterday, right, had vanished for more than 24 hours. The military announced last night, though, they had located the wreckage two hours northeast of Joint Base Charleston in South Carolina. That jet disappeared on Sunday. We are told the pilot was able to eject safely and taken to a medical facility.

But somehow, the military struggled to find the actual jet, even going as far as asking the public for help. Congresswoman Nancy Mace said what many were thinking. Quote, "How the hell do you lose an F-35? How is there not a tracking device? And we're asking the public to what -- find a jet and turn it in?

Joining us now is someone who knows a lot more about this than we do, retired senior F-35 test pilot Billie Flynn. He has more than four decades of flying experience. Also, I should note you worked for Lockheed, the manufacturer of the F-35.

Can you answer Nancy Mace's question this morning, Billie?

BILLIE FLYNN, RETIRED SENIOR F-35 TEST PILOT, FORMER COMBAT FIGHTER PILOT (via Webex by Cisco): Well, good morning to you all.

I think it is the most awkwardly-worded news press release of all time. It had the entire world off chasing this story. It would have been better worded and the public wouldn't have been as alarmed.

It's not unusual to imagine it would be difficult to find an aircraft wreckage up in rural -- in this case, North Carolina. So it took 24 hours to find the airplane and we had a news cycle to talk about it.

MATTINGLY: I think it wasn't necessarily that people were alarmed, more just perplexed, right? And I think part of that is because you think from the technology side with -- between radar systems and tracking, and anything else -- and again, I'm not fluent in this language at all. That's why you're here. But what -- why is none of that helpful in a case like this?

[07:45:00] FLYNN: Well, let's remember that NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, I'm certain would have been able to track that through it all. But now we're trying to coordinate agencies to go find wreckage, although that takes time. And we, the public, we all off on a tangent because of the news release while the military was gathering resources to go out and search what was ultimately a large area to only find the wreckage.

And then remember, most importantly, the pilot was safe. So the initial focus --

HARLOW: Yeah.

FLYNN: -- was on the pilot, but then let's go find the airplane.

HARLOW: That is the main issue is was the pilot safe? Yes, he ejected safely.

But I just want to ask you sort of broader picture about these crashes and the safety component here because there have been several crashes involving military aircraft in testing, right? You had the F-18 crash near San Diego. You have this.

And there was a study just three years ago in 2020 that Congress commissioned and what they found is that pilots across the military are not getting enough flying hours in these aircraft.

Do you think that is a factor? Does it concern you?

FLYNN: Well, let's talk about the -- really, the rash of accidents in the Marine Corps, first of all. Three separate accidents that now has prompted the commandant of the Marine Corps to call a two-day pause to flying operations to get all the units to focus on safe operations and flight safety itself. And in the pace of the Marine Corps where everybody's running pretty hard and remembering that military aviation is inherently dangerous, taking two days off to focus on safety is really smart and to end this bad streak.

Overall, pilots do not fly as many flying hours as they did in the past -- certainly, in the heyday of my flying. And yes, that ultimately contributes to their ability to operate at a high tempo all the time.

HARLOW: Um-hum.

MATTINGLY: All right. Billie Flynn, a fascinating conversation.

FLYNN: Let's - let me throw one more thing out there --

HARLOW: Sure.

FLYNN: -- to tell you that the F-35 has one of the most impressive safety records in its -- in its lifetime compared to any other fighter aircraft in the Western World's history. And this accident has us focusing on the aircraft but really, the fleet itself -- almost 1,000 F-35s flying now are remarkably safe. MATTINGLY: That's an important point.

Billie Flynn, we appreciate your time, sir. Thank you.

FLYNN: A pleasure. Good talking to you.

HARLOW: Well, ahead, what does the future look like for Russia's private military group, the Wagner Group, now that the leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is dead? We have an exclusive report from our Clarissa Ward ahead.

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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the first images of Wagner fighters in the country since Prigozhin's death.

WARD (on camera): It's clear they still are very much a presence here.

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[07:50:32]

MATTINGLY: Nearly one month after Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin died in a plane crash, Russia has been engaged in a high-stakes scramble to centralize his empire on the African continent. One of those outposts is in the Central African Republic. CNN's Clarissa Ward explains how Russia's influence there through Wagner may be changing.

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WARD (voice-over): In the Central African Republic the message from Wagner is clear, it's business as usual.

Less than one month after their boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was killed in a plane crash, mass mercenaries still guard the president and cut an intimidating figure on the streets of the capital. Faces covered, as Wagner protocol dictates, they are unapproachable and untouchable. These are the first images of Wagner fighters in the country since Prigozhin's death.

WARD (on camera): It's clear they still are very much a presence here in Bangui.

WARD (voice-over): That presence runs deep. The markets are full of cheap sachets of vodka and beer made by a Wagner-owned company. The locals seem to like it.

WARD (on camera): (Speaking foreign language).

They say they don't drink French beer, only Russian beer.

WARD (voice-over): We've come back to the center of Prigozhin's empire in Africa right as his death raises questions for the regimes he protected and the mercenaries whose loyalty he inspired.

Our last visit was in Wagner's early days here -- run like the mafia, providing guns and fighters, and propaganda in return for gold, diamonds, and timber, using intimidation and brutality along the way.

WARD (on camera): That car full of Russians has been following us for quite some time. We don't know why. We don't know what they want.

WARD (voice-over): But in this lawless war-scarred country, one of the poorest in the world, that ruthlessness and the security it brought is celebrated by many.

FIDELE GOUANDJIKA, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Welcome to (INAUDIBLE) palace.

WARD (on camera): Wow. That is quite the t-shirt.

GOUANDJIKA: Yes, a beautiful t-shirt.

WARD (voice-over): Presidential adviser Fidele Gouandjika says the nation is in mourning for Wagner's dead leader.

GOUADNJIKA: He was my friend. He was my friend. Best friend. A friend of all Central African people.

WARD (on camera): Why exactly was Mr. Prigozhin so popular here, in your mind?

GOUADNJIKA: Because our country was in war, so Mr. Prigozhin -- Mr. Putin give us here Mr. Prigozhin.

WARD (on camera): So aren't you nervous now that he is dead that things might change?

GOUADNJIKA: Mr. Putin call our president. He told him that everything will be like yesterday. Nothing will be changed -- nothing.

WARD (voice-over): But according to a diplomatic source here, hundreds of Wagner fighters left the Central African Republic in July after Prigozhin's failed mutiny. Those who remain, including his top lieutenants, have agreed to work for the Russian Ministry of Defense. Fighters have already been pulled back from front line outposts to population centers in an effort to cut costs, the source says.

What's less clear is what becomes of Wagner's civilian presence here. This is one of the last places that Prigozhin was seen alive during his final tour across Africa. It's called the Russian Cultural Center, only it has no connection to Russia's official cultural agency and was run until recently by Prigozhin's closest associate here. Photographs taken on that visit show a new face -- a woman known as Anfisa Kiryanova.

After days of asking for permission to visit, we decide to film covertly.

WARD (on camera): So, but you were here then when Yevgeny Prigozhin -- when he was here -- in the photographs. There's the photographs of you with Prigozhin together.

ANFISA KIRYANOVA, APPEARS IN PHOTOGRAPH WITH PRIGOZHIN: Oh my god, can you show me that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

KIRYANOVA: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was just over in that corner.

KIRYANOVA: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you are.

KIRYANOVA: Hmm. OK, OK, that's good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is Mr. Prigozhin, no?

KIRYANOVA: Yeah.

[07:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was he?

KIRYANOVA: Normal.

WARD (on camera): Do you think he knew they were going to kill him?

KIRYANOVA: My gosh. What is the question there? Who knows such things?

WARD (on camera): What does it mean for your work here? Does it change anything?

KIRYANOVA: Does it change anything if, I don't know, the president of your country dies? Does it mean that your country stops to exist?

WARD (voice-over): She shows us one of their daily Russian classes. As we step back outside we see a Wagner fighter.

WARD (on camera): Hi. Who are you? (Speaking foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's getting (INAUDIBLE).

WARD (voice-over): You can just make him out retreating to the back of the center where, according to the investigative group The Sentry, Wagner sells it gold and diamonds to VIPs and manages its timber and alcohol operations.

WARD (on camera): Who is that?

KIRYANOVA: A personnel.

WARD (on camera): A person? Can we see what's there? That's weird. KIRYANOVA: Yeah. Actually, we saw -- well, what are you going to see there?

WARD (voice-over): Like most of Wagner's activities here it's clear there is still so much that is hidden from view. We've pushed the visit far enough. It's time to go.

No matter who takes over here, Western diplomats say they don't expect much to change. At the local Orthodox church, the Greek lettering has been painted over. It's allegiance now is to the Russian patriarchy. And even in the skies about the empire Prigozhin built, Russia's dominance lives on.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Bangui.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Clarissa Ward, welcome back, and thank you.

HARLOW: What amazing reporting.

All right. Breaking this morning, this new video showing five Americans freed from prison in Iran -- they are finally home, back on U.S. soil. We'll speak to someone who was on that plane and critical in facilitating their release.

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