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CNN This Morning

Writers Guild and Studios Reach Potential Agreement to End Strike; Rep. Tony Gonzales (R-TX) Interviewed on House Republicans Inability to Pass Continuing Resolution as Government Shutdown Looms; Interview with Rep. Tony Gonzales (R-TX); Trump's Evolving Position on Abortion. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 25, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:10]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here's where we begin. There is a deal, tentative deal, in Hollywood, the writer's strike potentially coming to an end. It's been a lot of days, though.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: More than 140, nearing a record. Still, the actors on strike, but a major, major development overnight.

HARLOW: Yes, that's true. So the writer's guild has reached this tentative deal with studios.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Those are writers celebrating in Los Angeles last night after the agreement was announced.

MATTINGLY: The guild members are now set to vote and decide whether to accept that deal. In the meantime, Hollywood remains shut down. Actors, of course, are still on strike, no end in sight there. Economists say this strike has cost the U.S. economy more than $5 billion, not only in L.A., but in other TV and film production hubs like Georgia and New York.

CNN national correspondent Camila Bernal is live for us in Los Angeles. The big question right now is, one, will it get voted through. But two, what's actually in this deal? I know details are sparse, but Camila, what do we know right now?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's really what everyone wants to know, Phil. And I've talked to a lot of writers who tell me, look, we're confident in the WGA negotiators because they knew exactly what we wanted. And part of that is higher wages and then artificial intelligence, there was a huge focus on that. And it appears that artificial intelligence was actually the last sticking point in these negotiations. So, the deal hasn't been made public, but a lot a of the members saying that they're confident that they're getting what they want.

They'll soon be able to see what's in this deal, because what happens next here is that they will have leadership votes. That's likely going to happen tomorrow. And after that, that contract will likely be made public. Writers will have the opportunity to ask questions and then, eventually, will have to vote to ratify this deal. It has not been easy. It's five months, more or less, of very difficult days for a lot of these writers. And they say they want to go back to work.

But of course, they still have to wait. What officials with the WGA are saying is that they're essentially dotting every "i." They're working on the language to then get to that vote. This has had a huge economic impact and there's still a lot of questions as to what happens next, because, yes, you may have some talk shows and late- night shows come back on the air quickly, but because the actors are still on strike, they've been on strike since July, it doesn't mean that productions are going to go back to normal any time soon. This deal with the writers could pressure or maybe speed up the process with the actors, but we'll have to wait and see what happens, Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right, we will be watching. Camila Bernal, thank you.

And joining us now is CNN senior media analyst and senior media reporter for "Axios," Sarah Fischer. Sarah, thanks for joining us. I want to start with, is there anything that could get in the way with this getting over the finish line at this point?

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: It's not looking likely. I think this is pretty much close to done. The only thing that could get in the way is that if there is something in this deal that the writers, once they take a look at it ahead of the vote, don't like. But it seems like most of their big sticking points have been addressed. As Camila mentioned, wages was the number one big thing. Another thing that I'm curriculum to see how it's addressed in this deal is the writers' rooms, basically ensuring that the studios hire a certain amount of writers per show. And then of course, the last thing, protections from artificial intelligence. But I think, Phil, you're going to see this vote ratified, ready to go within the next few days.

HARLOW: Sarah, what does that mean, protections against artificial intelligence?

FISCHER: So the concern amongst writers is that these studios are going to use A.I. to write scripts. And of course, that's a huge challenge, because that would not only put them out of work, but there's a creative control challenge, too. I.P., basically the intellectual property that you own, is not necessarily protected under law if you're using artificial intelligence. So there's a concern amongst writers that if they use A.I. to even help them write the scripts, then they're not going to be eligible for things like awards, et cetera. So all of those things are the types of stuff that you're going to find addressed in this deal.

HARLOW: So is the belief then that studios would have agreed to totally not allow A.I. at all? Forever? FISCHER: No, I think it's going to be something that's a little bit

more subjective. Basically, you can experiment with A.I., you can leverage it in some certain ways, but ultimately you can't use A.I. to displace the work of writers, and you can't use A.I. in a way that might impact their ability to protect their intellectual property, again, things that would impact their ability to win awards, et cetera.

MATTINGLY: Sarah, this is a huge deal, but this doesn't address the actors. And my understanding is there haven't been actual tangible negotiations on that front for some period of time. Does it deal here unlock the room kind of opening up there, they should be the next domino to fall here? What happens next there?

FISCHER: Yes, because the studios have been pretty distracted by the writers' strike before they could even get to the actors' strike. So I think now that this is off their plate, they're going to be able to negotiate something with SAG-AFTRA, which is the union that represents the actors.

[08:05:05]

And the other thing to note, Phil, is that they are very eager to get this done. I think the studio has seen the WGA has something that they got off their plates, and they want to make sure this gets done before the end of the year. We also now have a template. So when it comes to things like artificial intelligence, now that there is one deal that's been brokered addressing it, you might not be surprised to see similar parameters included in the next deal.

HARLOW: OK, really interesting. Sarah Fischer, thanks for the reporting.

FISCHER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, a government shutdown becoming more and more likely as Republican hardliners are holding funding hostage with only five days left to reach a spending deal. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and his top allies working through the weekend, still does not have support from Republicans demanding significant spending cuts. They cannot force the Democrat-led Senate or the Democrat-led White House to accept.

One way out of the crisis for McCarthy would be working with Democrats on a temporary stopgap spending bill. The most conservative Republicans are threatening that that would cost McCarthy his job.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins us now. Lauren, I guess the question at this point with five days left is, what's worse, a shutdown or working with Democrats if you're the Speaker of the House?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's only one man really who can answer that question right now, and that is the Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy. And that is exactly the decision that he likely will have to make at the end of this week. Right now, House Republicans have this gambit where they are going to try to pass one individual appropriation bill at a time. These are year-long bills. They have four of them teed up potentially to start voting as soon as Tuesday on procedural measures.

But one thing to keep in mind is none of those bills to fund the Department of Defense, Homeland Security, Agriculture, the Department of State, would actually avoid a government shutdown. That is because they are dead on arrival in the Senate, and because it just makes up a fraction of the bills that they would need to pass to fund the entire government.

That is why House leaders on a private call on Saturday were imploring their members to try to rally behind a short-term spending bill that would fund the government, include border security, and make substantial government cuts. But so far, there are still holdouts to any kind of Republican-negotiated short-term spending bill. That means McCarthy could likely get jammed by the United States Senate. There are conversations happening between Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to try to find a way forward in this Senate. If they can pass a bill out of their chamber, the question for McCarthy will ultimately be, does he put that bill on the floor, negotiate it with Democrats in the Senate, or does he not and risk a shutdown? Obviously, it's a question between the gavel and avoiding a government shutdown. Phil?

MATTINGLY: It is a big question at that. Lauren Fox, thank you, as always.

Well, Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales of Texas joins us now. He's one of the lawmakers against a short-term stopgap bill. He serves on the Appropriations Committee and is a member of the House Problem Solvers Caucus.

Congressman, I appreciate your time. Just yesterday, I was watching your comments yesterday, where you seem to say that a shutdown is almost inevitable at this point. If that's the case, who do you think bears the blame here?

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): Everyone. The House, certainly House Republicans are to blame. Senate Democrats are to blame. And the president is to blame. And there's real people that are going to get hurt. Everyone thinks that they can just point the finger at someone else, it's someone else's fault but ours.

The facts are, it's everybody's fault. And in the House, I'm a part of. I think step one is passing appropriations bill. I would like to see the Homeland appropriations bill be the first bill we take up on Tuesday. I think that has an opportunity of getting passed, and then just start piecemealing our way to getting to some sense of solutions here.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you, the idea that everyone bears some blame here, I think there's decade-plus of evidence of that to some degree, but in this case in particular, there was a deal that was struck to raise the debt limit that set down the baseline for what appropriations committees could do. And people -- the transportation secretary addressed this yesterday. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Speaker McCarthy and the president made a deal. They made a deal earlier this summer. And by the way, it wasn't an easy deal. Just from the transportation side alone, it meant us accepting cuts that Republicans were demanding to programs that we wanted to use to fund more roads and bridges and airports. But we made that deal, and all we're asking is that they live up to that deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Congressman, when it comes to -- look you voted against that bill on the floor. I'm very aware of that. But there was a deal that was reached by the speaker and the president, and House Republicans walked away from that deal. So how is the blame equal at this point?

GONZALES: I heard the comments from the secretary of transportation, I just urge him to focus on the secretary of transportation. I have got a lot of my constituents that complain about the delays in flights and other issues, trains, certainly. There's no doubt that there's a lot of things to blame right now.

[08:10:01]

House Republicans need to do their part. Senate -- we haven't talked about Senate Democrats putting together a C.R. because they don't have one. We haven't talked about the president, who's been MIA from these conversations. I mean, last week, he was -- he didn't know if he was talking to the black caucus or the brown caucus. It's pretty dysfunctional right now in Washington.

But I'm of the mindset, put all of that aside. That's all politics. Put that aside, roll up your sleeves, and let's get in a room and let's figure this out. We have got a little bit of runway left. I doubt that will get done in that time. I'm looking at the lens, how do we prevent this shutdown from -- or how do we minimize it from 10 days instead of 10 weeks? And that starts now, and not weight and continuing the finger pointing game.

MATTINGLY: Ten days isn't nothing. I understand what you're saying. Ten days of a shutdown doesn't have no effect. But I guess the question is, you've made clear you're opposed to a short-term stopgap because you think that's just kicking the can down the road. You want to move through individual appropriations bills. There's 12 of them. They would need pass your chamber when you guys can't even get across procedural hurdles right now, and then be reconciled with the Senate, and then make it to the White House. I'm sorry, like, in what world is that anything than 10 weeks based on how Congress operates?

GONZALES: That's it. If you give Congress more time, all they're going to do is take every hour and not accomplish anything. You would be amazed. I learned a long time ago how to eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Lock everyone in a room. The pressure is certainly up. Everyone's playing the blame game. It's always someone else's fault. But I think now's crunch time, because there are real people that are going to be hurt. People in the military, certainly people in DHS along the border. The border crisis right now is absolutely out of control. In my district, you've got facilities that are at 400 percent capacity. You've got -- in El Paso, we've got over 2,000 people coming over a day. It's all fun and games looking at it afar, going, oh, that's in Texas. But very soon, that will be in your city. You're seeing it in New York, and you're certainly going to see it in California here soon. This border crisis something real. I would like for to us get back to handling the real issues of America.

MATTINGLY: I want to talk to you about the border, particularly your district in a minute. But I think that raises a good point, because the pressure -- utilizing pressure for leverage, and I hear you on kicking the can down the road and giving lawmakers more time. I've covered the place long enough to understand what you're saying there. But border security, DHS, CBP, they will be affected by a shutdown. And so you think that it's worthwhile to use that as leverage and to some degree drop border security, drop national security in an effort to force people to reach solutions on 12 spending bills, none of which have passed both chambers at this point?

GONZALES: I don't think anyone should leverage anyone. I think politicians should do their job. I think the House should do its job, I think the Senate should do its job, and I think the president should do his job. We should all work together. It may not be exactly what we all want, but that's why the American public, you know, elected us in these different chambers. And right now you see none of that. You see, it's just always somebody else's fault.

And when there is a shutdown, there are real people that are going to be hurt. And once again, no one's really talking about what happens after that. And that's what I'm really focused on, is how do we get to some sense of real things. Not things that the House passes that the Senate has no chance of picking up, or the Senate passes and the House has no chance of passing up. What are some real things that can ultimately get us to point where if there is a government shutdown, we can restart the government and get things going again.

MATTINGLY: I want to ask you about the border. Your district includes a long stretch of border along the Rio Grande. It includes Eagle Pass, I believe, where there are currently thousands of migrants crossing the river to declare asylum. You're going to host members of Congress there. What do you want to show them, what tangibly do you think can be done in the near-term?

GONZALES: This is really -- many communities along the border feel abandoned. I mean, you've heard from Mayor Salinas of Eagle Pass, who is a Democrat, by the way. Many of us feel abandoned. So today is in large part bringing members of Congress to the border and saying, you're not abandoned. And we are going to continue to hear you out. And we are going to continue to advocate. That's one.

The other piece of it is, how do we find real solutions. I get it. There's a lot of finger-pointing, it's easy to blame President Biden's failed immigration policies, but how do we find real solutions? If we're going to rely on Mexico, there was just this deal, and we're going to rely on Mexico to handle our immigration system, I'm very concerned with that, because they have failed in every aspect. Just look at the fentanyl crisis. Mexico has not helped us in this area, so we can't allow other countries to handle our national security.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned the agreement with Mexico, that's something the administration was working on over the weekend. They also moved forward on temporary protected status, expanding it for Venezuelans to try to give them work permits, as they work to process asylum claims. What's your message in terms of the administration? I think everybody agrees, both parties, that the immigration system is broken. There's no -- it's the only thing I think everybody agrees on in Washington. If you had a message as a border state lawmaker, or a border district lawmaker, what is it to the president?

[08:15:00]

GONZALES: I met with Secretary Mayorkas and it's a similar message that I gave to him late last week.

You know, when you grant 500,000 Venezuelans who came over illegally, asylum, what you're doing is you're undermining legal immigration.

I've got a bill. It's called the HIRE Act. It's 30 members of Congress, 10 Republicans -- or 10 Democrats, 20 Republicans, that focuses on legal immigration through work visas. And anytime you're going to grant people that have come over illegally work visas, all you're doing is undermining the legal aspect.

Imagine if you're from India, and you're a doctor, and you're trying to come here to work, but someone from Venezuela is cutting the line. Imagine you're a nurse from the Philippines, and you're coming to the United States trying to do it the right way, but someone from Cuba is cutting the line. These are the type of things that I think we need to set aside and go how do we fix this system long term?

Step one, you know, like my good friend, Henry Cuellar is onto something, you have to enforce the laws that are on the books through repatriation flights, how we just decompress and get our cities back under control.

But long term, Congress has to lead in a bipartisan manner that has real solutions. I think that starts through legal pathways like work visas.

MATTINGLY: I don't have any time left, but I do want to ask you, next week at this time, is Speaker McCarthy still at the gavel?

GONZALES: I don't see. I mean, who else, right? If not McCarthy, who?

MATTINGLY: Good point.

Congressman Tony Gonzales, I appreciate your time, sir. Thank you.

GONZALES: Thank you.

HARLOW: So Ron DeSantis is slamming Donald Trump's abortion stance after the former president called Florida's six-week ban a "terrible mistake." We're going to step back and take a look at Trump's evolution on this issue, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:06]

HARLOW; All right, welcome back.

Former President Trump's abortion stance, front and center on the campaign trail after he called Florida's six-week ban a "terrible mistake." Now Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is hitting back. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Protecting unborn babies that have detectable heartbeats is not terrible. It's noble. It's just and it should be something that anyone says that they are pro-life would embrace.

I don't see how you could claim to have been at one time, pro-life and then turn around and say that it's terrible that a state would enact protections for life.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HARLOW: So let's take a look at this because Trump's position on abortion has evolved over the last 25 years and that evolution is something his Republican rivals have been quick to attack.

Take a look at how that position has changed over his decades in public life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm very pro- choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for.

I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject.

But you still -- I just believe in choice.

I am pro-life.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You're pro-life, but you do think that there should be exceptions for rape and incest.

TRUMP: Yes. And life, you know, the health of the mother, the death.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, FORMER MSNBC ANCHOR: Do you believe in punishment for abortion? Yes or No? Is it principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes. There has to be some form.

Since we got it back to the States, we did the Roe v. Wade thing, which they've been trying to get it done for 50 years. I got it done.

I believe in the three exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother. I believe in that.

Without the exceptions, it is very difficult to win elections.

KRISTEN WELKER, MSNBC: Would you sign federal legislation that would ban abortion at 15 weeks.

TRUMP: No, no. Let me just tell you what I'd do. I'm going to come together with all groups and we're going to have something that's acceptable.

I mean, DeSantis is willing to sign a five-week and six-week ban --

WELKER: Would you support that? You think that's just too far?

TRUMP: I think what he did is a terrible thing and a terrible mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: As you can see it is quite an evolution.

With us at the table, the co-author of POLITICO's "New York Playbook," Emily Ngo; "Washington Post" national correspondent Philip Bump and Semafor politics reporter, Shelby Talcott.

Yes, people change, Shelby. But he's changing back and forth, kind of right now, because he is criticizing some of the most strict bans that by the way, Dobbs is allowed to happen, while also saying, but I'm the one who got all these conservative justices on the court. And I'm therefore responsible for getting Roe overturned.

SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: He is sort of trying to play both sides here, and so in a way, he is kind of almost in my opinion, moving over to the general election early, and he's trying to figure out ways to get some of those more moderate -- socially moderate voters on board, while also reminding the ultra-conservative religious voters who last time around, I did XYZ for you guys, so you should still be with me, even though I'm saying something different this time around.

And that has really frustrated the anti-abortion activists, as we've talked about here before. The thing is, it hasn't -- that frustration hasn't really translated into any changes in support for Trump in a primary election.

MATTINGLY: Dig in on the primary and a second, but Emily, the idea of -- I'm triangulating back for the general election right now, when you've got three Supreme Court justices where your threshold was literally opposition to Roe vs. Wade, and therefore that is exactly what they did, which has allowed everything on the state level.

Like how do you get to do that?

EMILY NGO, POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO NEW YORK: Because you're Donald Trump --

MATTINGLY: It's a terrible answer, but it's right.

NGO: He isn't held to account by Republicans, by his party in the way that he should be. Shelby is right that he's playing both sides. He shouldn't be permitted to, he shouldn't -- he should care what Ron DeSantis, as his primary opponent says. He should have his words used against him.

He shouldn't be able to appoint justices to the Supreme Court, that hurt Dobbs, that hurt Roe. He shouldn't be able to go on and call a six-week ban in Florida a terrible mistake.

But he can say whatever he wants, he says what's politically expedient and no one cares. He is not -- no one else is competitive at this stage in the Republican primary as Donald Trump who is 40 points over Ron DeSantis.

So good for Ron DeSantis for trying to stick up for his state, for his policies, but Trump says what he wants.

HARLOW: Isn't the reality that it doesn't really matter what Trump says on this right now because he got the court so dramatically changed that he got this ruling that is going to be here.

PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. Yes, no, that's exactly right.

I mean, his schtick in politics has always been to say the thing that he thinks people want to hear, and then do whatever he can to deliver for his base. That was him delivering for his base, getting those three justices appointed, having Roe be overturned. He can just point to that, right?

[08:25:06]

HARLOW: And not just that, the guns decision.

BUMP: Oh sure yes.

HARLOW; The state EPA -- I mean, all of these things.

BUMP: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm so glad in that segment, with those clips that you showed, you showed that point in 2015, when he's asked if there should be a punishment for the women, because you can see him. He's never thought about it.

You can see him he's like, yes, I think there has to be a punishment. And he's just making up on the fly, because that's what he does. He has not paid any attention to this issue, except that he knows what's popular. And what he knows right now is he's seen all these election results.

He knows that his party's hard position on abortion is not popular. Again, he's running in the general already because he's basically locked up the primary.

And so this is what he's doing. This is message for 2024. Oh, these guys are too far to the right, trying to position himself as moderate and knowing that the right will still be there on election day.

NGO: Triangulating in real time.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and have a decent idea that Democratic ad makers probably are not going to let him get away with that to some degree. But on the primary side, you know, take a listen to what Mike Pence and Ron DeSantis have been saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You saw him walking away from our commitment to the sanctity of human life. I'm pro-life. People that know me know, I'll always stand for the unborn.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the former president is wrong on the issue. He was a pro-life president and we need a pro-life president in the future.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For him to then attack people like Iowa, South Carolina, Florida, all of these other states, I thought was a big mistake.

But look, I mean, I think he's taking positions that I think are different from what he took in 2015 when he first came onto the scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Senator Tim Scott was in there as well.

Iowa is the state that everyone has been looking to for some type of sign that this is having an impact, is it?

TALCOTT: Not so far, and it was really interesting, I had a conversation with Bob Vander Plaats, who is a very prominent Iowa evangelical, sort of like the leader -- one of the leaders of the movements out there and his point to me was, if Trump is successful in Iowa, as we've seen every indication is that so far, I mean, it's still early, but he could be, it will say more about the evangelical voter base there by basically, his argument was it'll say that they are willing to vote for a personality over their cause.

And so this is not just, you know, an issue for what's going to happen in 2024, but it is also I think, kind of going to be a basis of how influential the evangelical social conservative base, anti-abortion movement is going forward.

HARLOW: Let's just, before we go look at this new polling out. There is a bunch. There was ABC/Washington Post, but I want to hone in on the NBC poll, Biden's overall approval rating, and then how he's doing on the economy. Fifty-six percent disapprove, only 41 percent approve.

And on the economy, it is really bad. Let's pull that up next. I believe it's 23 percent, if I've got that right approval on the economy. This is a little different look, but the economy is worse, 58 percent.

Philip, how do you fight this, when they're running on Bidenomics?

BUMP: Right. Well, yes, I mean, it'll be interesting to see if they continue to run on Bidenomics moving forward.

HARLOW: I think -- that's interesting. You think they may pull back on this?

BUMP: Well, I just don't know. I mean, they put a big push on, like, oh, let's talk about Bidenomics. I don't know if -- you know, I think they will still definitely focus on the economy and the fact that the economy is more robust than people might have just made -- I'll not going to use that phrase --

But you know, I mean, I think that a lot of Democrats are thinking that what they need to do is run on democracy as opposed to Donald Trump. We saw this ad that came out from Donald Trump or from Joe Biden last week, President Biden, I should say, that focused on his visit to Ukraine and really had a subtext about like, I'm standing up against the autocrats. I think that's the push they're going to make.

In 2020 he got elected president, not because he was so popular, because Donald Trump was so unpopular. That's definitely part of what they're hoping will happen again in 2024 should that be the matchup.

MATTINGLY: And he's giving a speech on democracy soon, so we'll see if that pivot happens.

Emily, Phil, Shelby, thanks, guys, as always.

Well, this just in to CNN, embattled Senator Bob Menendez is set to speak later today at 11:30 AM from a community college in New Jersey. There have been growing calls for him to resign after he was indicted on bribery charges. Those calls even coming from his own party within his state. Stay with us.

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