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CNN This Morning
Trump Gives Speech in Michigan; Trump skips GOP Debate; Iowa Voter on Second GOP Debate. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired September 28, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:32:39]
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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He wants electric vehicle mandates that will spell the death of the U.S. auto industry. You know, it doesn't matter. I watch you negotiating a contract. You're all on picket lines and everything. But it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what you get because in two years you're all going to out of business. You're not getting anything. You can be loyal to American labor, or you can be loyal to the environmental lunatics, but you can't really be loyal to both. It's one or the other.
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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, former President Trump shifting his focus to the general election and the increasing possibility of a Trump/Biden rematch. He skipped the debate again last night against his Republican rivals and made his case to a crowd of supporters, you see him there, in Michigan. He cast himself as pro- worker, repeatedly urged the union to endorse him.
Of course, Michigan is a battleground state that he lost to Biden in 2020.
Kristen Holmes, live in Detroit with more.
I mean it's very clear how the UAW president feels about Trump. As Phil and I have been discussing all week, Trump's policies in the heartland on auto specifically are very clear in his actions from last time around. Did any of that matter last night?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not going to matter when Trump is speaking to a crowd of his supporters because they are going to support him no matter what. And that's really what we saw last night.
But one thing was very clear, that in this path to the White House, Trump is keenly aware that Michigan is a critical part of that. As you mentioned, Biden won in 2020. Trump won it in 2016. It's really what helped propel him to the White House. And last night that was his messaging. He said he stood with striking
auto workers. That he opposed any sort of quick transition to electric vehicles. You heard him there. That it would cause - that it would cost jobs. And he really sought at times to recast that record that he had while he was in office. A record that, as you noted, has been absolutely slammed by union leaders as anti-union, as anti-work, as pro-business.
And then he made a plea to a specific union leader, as you mentioned, Shawn Fain, the head of United Auto Workers. Take a listen.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you could speak to Shawn, he's listening right now I'm sure. Shawn, endorse Trump and you can take a nice two-month vacation, come back, you guys are going to be better than you ever were. (INAUDIBLE).
[06:35:03]
Because the other way you won't have a vacation, Shawn. And in a short period of time, you're not going to have a union, you're not going to have jobs, you're not going to have anything.
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HOLMES: OK, so a couple of things to note here, as we've talked about. The UAW has not endorsed in 2024. They endorsed Biden in 2020. But we saw Shawn Fain greeting Biden at the airport, as well as walking the picket line with him. And he has had nothing but negative things to say about Trump, about him being part of the billionaire class, representing the billionaire class, being essentially everything that unions are against. So, it doesn't seem likely that an endorsement is in his future.
Now, when I talked to Trumps folks, they say that there is a split between union leaders and the rank and file. And there were a couple of UAW striking workers at Trump's event last night, but not enough to say that they're a complete split here between leadership and the rank and file. So, that's something that he's going to have to prove at the ballot box or prove to these union workers every day until a general election should he be the nominee.
HARLOW: Kristen, thank you for being there for that reporting. We'll get back to you soon.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, back with us, Van Jones, Josh Barro, John Avlon and Margaret Hoover.
I genuinely would like to do a full hour on electric vehicles and the actual policy. I'm sure that's like a nightmare for lots of people. Because I think it's really interesting. But I also feel like it's become such a central point of the argument that Trump is making, not just in Michigan but writ large about environmental policy. And, Van, to that idea, you know, that's clearly the way Trump sees as
his way in. There are legitimate issues the UAW has with the EV transition how the Biden administration has tried to accelerate that.
Do you think it's possible to actually fight on the facts and policy here?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, it's interesting, because in order to retrofit America to use clean energy and use less energy, there's a massive amount of manufacturing capacity that's required. Wind turbines don't build themselves. Solar arrays don't build themselves. Electric vehicles don't have zero labor. And we've got to make a bunch of them. But that becomes a little bit complicated, you know, trying to explain to this particular worker about their particular job.
What I think is most interesting is that labor matters now. Unions matter now. I remember with Romney -- hold on a second. I remember with Romney that wasn't, you know, the Republican nominee's, you know, main point. Mitt Romney wasn't going around trying to convince unions that he was there friend. So, something has happened where this - this rise in labor, this -- this labor discontent is getting both parties to act very differently and show more respect toward labor.
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And -
HARLOW: Can I ask -- just one second -- you about that, Van, because that, to me, has been the most fascinating part of the last few weeks. And we dug into the numbers a few days ago here. Why do you think that is? You're so good at getting to the core of why. Why do you think that is?
JONES: Because - because people are hurting. And people are working very hard and not getting anywhere. And as a result of that, the people who are sticking up for workers, whether they're billionaires pretending or actual labor leaders matter a lot more.
AVLON: Union -
JOSH BARRO, WRITER, "VERY SERIOUS" NEWSLETTER: But a reason for the strength of the union right now is that the profits in Detroit at the automakers are very high right now. And that's where Donald Trump is really off tone in terms of how he's talking to and about the UAW.
You have the UAW out there saying, you have record profits, business is good, we deserve a bigger piece of that. Trump is there saying, you're all going to be bankrupt in two years. And it -- one implication that would be, the automakers don't, in fact, have money to pay the workers more. And so I think he correctly -- it's correct that there are issues with the EV transition, but I don't think that Trump is talking about it in a way that reflect the concerns that the union seems to have and the workers seemed to be aligned with the union. They're trying to get as much of a piece of the transition as they possibly can.
AVLON: Yes. BARRO: They seem to understand it's going to happen.
AVLON: But let's have a - let's have a fact-based debate. I know you're, obviously, about that.
First of all, I mean, what the Biden administration has done in terms of policy is a lot of incentives to increase manufacturing around EVs. I mean this is a standard part of Biden's both rhetoric and - and the reality of his record. Now, will people feel that right way? Is there a lot of uncertainty? Of course there is.
What's this about? This is about higher than normal union participation rates in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Trump got around 40 percent of the union -- the labor vote last time. There's, obviously, a disconnect between those -- the management and labor and the union leadership.
But when they start demonizing and saying that the Trump -- the Biden administration is selling these folks down the river, that ignores the record, 800,000 new manufacturing jobs. In Michigan, manufacturing jobs were down 1,800 over the first three years of Trump's administration. They're up almost 1,900 over the first two years of Biden's administration. Those facts and stats got to matter at the end of the day.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Donald Trump didn't go there, though, to make these policy points.
AVLON: No, of course not.
HOOVER: Donald Trump went there for stage craft. He went there for a photo op. He went there for counterprogramming to the Republican debate. And he continues to lead in the Republican primary. So, it was a totally effective charade when so far as demonstrating that actually the real show is between me and Joe Biden here in Michigan and has nothing to do with what you - you know, the quibbling you hear in southern California.
[06:40:09]
I think that's - that's the real point here, he's leading and he's going to try to appeal culturally to white -- disenfranchised white working class voters that helped him get there the first time.
AVLON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: It's effective, very clearly. And also I think it's the reality, despite what John Avlon thinks, that this is - and Biden's going to do it today with the democracy speech down in Arizona, which we're going to talk a lot about going forward.
HARLOW: This afternoon.
AVLON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: That's the dynamic right now. There are two people running in the general election race, whether or not that's official or not.
All right, everyone stick around. We're going to be speaking with candidates Chris Christie and former Vice President Mike Pence in our 8:00 a.m. hour as well.
HARLOW: So, who won the debate last night? Did anyone win? We asked some voters in Iowa.
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GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: DeSantis? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Haley? One, two, three, four, five, six.
Pence?
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MATTINGLY: This morning, Iowa Republicans weighing in on who they think won last night's GOP primary debate with less than four months until the caucuses in their state. While former President Trump is still the undeniable frontrunner there, these voters say the debates are helping them chooses an alternative candidate.
CNN's Gary Tuchman has more.
[06:45:00]
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GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): We have now watched both Republican presidential debates with loyal Republicans in Story County, Iowa. Both times exasperation at the frequent candidate interruptions. But all 18 people in our assembled group say the debates have been valuable to them.
So, who do they think did best in this second debate?
TUCHMAN (on camera): Burgum? One.
Christie? OK, so his toughness doesn't appeal to anybody tonight.
DeSantis? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Haley? One, two, three, four, five, six.
Pence?
Ramaswamy? One.
Scott?
All right, so it looks like DeSantis is the winner in this room. TUCHMAN (voice over): During last month the debate, Vivek Ramaswamy
got the highest number of hands raised. Ron DeSantis came in third, behind Nikki Haley. Jeff Ortiz picked Ramaswamy then. DeSantis now.
JEFF ORTIZ, STORY COUNTY REPUBLICAN: I thought that DeSantis, because Vivek won the last debate, and I think that was the overall consensus, he was a target tonight. And so I think that took a lot of the personal attacks against -- away from DeSantis and he was able to speak to the issues more than everybody else.
TUCHMAN: Deborah Stoner went from Haley to DeSantis.
DEBORAH STONER, STORY COUNTY REPUBLICAN: I feel like he represented himself well and he did a lot to show that he is a true winner in the -- that he could win a general election.
TUCHMAN: Sixteen of these 18 people say they're undecided about which Republican to caucus for. One says he knows he'll caucus for DeSantis. Another says he's for Burgum. None, as of yet, committed to Donald Trump. And most tell us they think Trump should be taking the debate stage.
MEGAN DECKER, STORY COUNTY REPUBLICAN: I think it's disrespectful that he didn't come to try to earn Iowans votes, because so many people's votes are still up for grabs here in Iowa. And so not coming to try to earn that with the other candidates I think is a sign of disrespect and I don't think he earned anyone's vote by not coming.
TUCHMAN (on camera): Who do you think this was a bad night for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pence.
TUCHMAN: Pence. Why y'all saying Pence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, he comes across a little bit like -- not very believable to me. He's -- he's - he's rather pious-sounding in his manner.
TUCHMAN (voice over): Everyone on our panel wants to see less commotion between the candidates. But all in all --
TUCHMAN (on camera): Final question, do you think this was good for the party, this debate tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
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TUCHMAN: Poppy and Phil, these debate watchers are certainly not the first I've been with who are not happy about candidates interrupting each other. That being said, it seems like everyone we're with is looking forward to watching debate number three, because after all the great majority of them are still undecided.
Poppy. Phil.
HARLOW: Yes, Gary Tuchman, thank you.
His pieces are always such a highlight the morning after the debate because you see in real time how folks are thinking.
MATTINGLY: Yes, you learn from them as opposed to kind of the histrionics of what's on stage from people -
HARLOW: The histrionics, huh/
MATTINGLY: Yes.
HARLOW: Yes, there's that.
All right, we'll have more of this ahead. Meantime, by the way, still no deal in Washington. Look at the clock. Yikes! Government shutdown looks like it is all but inevitable. And the economic impact is going to be severe. We'll talk about that.
MATTINGLY: And Bruce Springsteen making a big announcement about his tour that is sure to disappointment his fans. We hope he's well and recovering.
Back soon.
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[06:51:31]
HARLOW: All right, welcome back.
We wish we could tell you we were not in this position, but we are, as a country, just two days away from a government shutdown. There is no deal in sight. That is clear. House Republicans throwing cold water on the prospect of passing a bipartisan Senate proposal. A number of hardline Republicans in the House opposing further aid to Ukraine and any kind of short term funding patch.
MATTINGLY: Now, if congress can't extend funding past Saturday night, it could impact American's paychecks, border security, airport travel, food safety and museums and national parks.
So, what can we expect in the days and potentially weeks ahead of funding lapses? Well, past shutdowns offer a very clear guide.
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ANGIE ACKLIN, FEDERAL PRISON WORKER: When we hear things like, this shutdown could go on for months or years, we don't have months or years. We have creditors. We have medical bills. We have mortgages. We have rent. We have things that we need to take care of.
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HARLOW: That was a federal worker from Alabama in 2019. That shutdown, 2018 into 2019, it last a record 35 days. More than 800,000 federal employees were forced to go on unpaid leave or work without pay.
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LYNN STRATTON, FEDERAL WORKER: I have enough for one more mortgage payment and I've got to go to CarMax tomorrow and sell my car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to sell your car?
STRATTON: I have to.
WHITNEY SNITCHLER, FEDERAL WORKER: I don't think that we should be held captive. Like our paychecks should be held captive just because of something that they need to like brawl out.
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HARLOW: She's exactly right. Those women from Ogden, Utah, which had one of the highest concentrations of federal workers in the west at the time. As the mayor told CNN then, the shutdown had a real, real economic impact.
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MAYOR MIKE CALDWELL, OGDEN, UTAH: The federal employees are part of the ecosystem that helps support all of these small business owners and shop worker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a ripple effect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. Absolutely right.
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HARLOW: And there was a ripple effect across the broader U.S. economy. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the shutdown cost this economy $11 billion. $3 billion of which just evaporated, right? It never came back when people went back to work.
MATTINGLY: But what about air travel during the last shutdown? Air traffic controllers who were working without pay issued this warning at the time, quote, "we cannot even calculate the level of risk currently at play, nor predict the point at which the entire system will break."
Here is the head of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.
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PAUL RINALDI, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: I'm starting to see routine mistakes in clearances being made because controllers are distracted.
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HARLOW: That's scary, routine mistakes. On the 35th day of that shutdown, 10 air traffic controllers in Virginia and Florida decided to stay home. Their absence temporarily shut down travel at New York's LaGuardia Airport and caused delays at other major hubs, according to the FAA. As CNN reported then, quote, "their actions, along with staffing issues already brewing at the TSA, helped tip the scales in Washington, driving President Trump to agree to a three-week cease- fire."
MATTINGLY: So, what about the political fallout from that very long shutdown? The temporary funding measure Trump agreed to in January 2019, it did not include the billions of dollars in border wall funding Trump had been demanded and which had led to the shutdown in the first place. Three weeks later, Trump declared a national emergency to unlock the wall funding, even as he signed a spending bill from Congress that averted another shutdown.
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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (February 15, 2019): We're going to confront the national security crisis on our southern border, and we're going to do it one way or the other. We have to do it.
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[06:55:00]
HARLOW: Politically, Trump lost the shutdown fight. One poll found that more than half of Americans blamed Trump and the Republicans after all of it for the shutdown. Another poll found seven in ten Americans didn't think the border wall was worth the shutdown.
MATTINGLY: Now, if the government shuts down, it remains to be seen if Republicans will get blamed again. As for Trump's border wall, his political rivals, well, they're still dings him for it, including just last night.
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CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said he was going to build a wall across the whole border. He built 52 miles of wall and said Mexico would pay for it. Guess what? I think if Mexico knew that he was only going to build 52 miles, they might have paid for the 52 miles.
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HARLOW: So, we're going to do it again.
MATTINGLY: So let's shorthand this. No one wins in this.
HARLOW: That's right.
MATTINGLY: Only people lose. And it's not the people in Congress who are having these fights based on nothing that will eventually end with no wins. It's real people.
HARLOW: That's exactly right. Yes, that elect those people to do their -
MATTINGLY: Not that I have a personal opinion on this.
HARLOW: To do their job.
MATTINGLY: Really, really pointless and dumb.
HARLOW: And keep the government running.
So, we're going to staying on this, of course. But the Republican presidential candidates, minus the frontrunner, last night took the stage in the second GOP debate. Who made an impact? Who was the target of most of the attacks? We have all that for you ahead.
MATTINGLY: And President Biden will take on former President Trump today, calling him an ongoing threat to democracy ahead of a potential 2024 matchup. We're going to dig in on that big speech. That's ahead.
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