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Republican Presidential Candidates Debate at Ronald Reagon Library; Republican Presidential Candidate Chris Christie Interviewed on His Criticisms of Former President Trump for Not Attending Republican Presidential Debate. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 28, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:27]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was the current Republican frontrunner who took center stage by his absence.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are not here tonight because you're afraid of being on the stage and defending your record.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: We've got to choose right, we've got to win, and we need somebody that is going to be able to serve two terms.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Go picket in front of the White House in Washington, D.C. That's really why the protest needs to be.

MIKE PENCE, (R) FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: A nation without borders is not a nation. We have to secure the southern border.

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A win for Russia is a win for China.

RAMASWAMY: That's not true. China is the real enemy.

SEN. TIM SCOTT, (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As the U.N. ambassador you literally --

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bring it, Tim. You got bad information.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rather than creating clarity, it creates more of a muddle for voters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's going to be a lot of pressure to kick somebody off the island.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven candidates were on stage. But the one who was not, Donald Trump, may have benefitted the most of all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It is the top of the hour. We are glad you are with us, especially if you stayed up late watching the debate last night. At the end, no one wanted to vote anyone else on the stage off the island as they tried to get them to did.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: One person did. One person did. And we're going to talk to him shortly. In like five minutes.

HARLOW: Most of them did not want to. Yet again, the GOP's frontrunner Donald Trump was not there. He wasn't on the stage. Today Trump will be the focus of a major speech by President Biden as they head towards a likely rematch for 2024. Biden will be sending a stark warning about Trump's looming threat to democracy.

Meanwhile, House Republicans are set to hold the first hearing of their impeachment investigation, and this is all happening with the government shutdown just days away, two days away to be precise, and the government running out of money. A big day ahead in politics as we have a lot to get to this morning. Let's begin with Harry Enten. Harry, good morning.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: Good morning.

HARLOW: Biden focused on Trump as his likely opponent. What do the polls show?

ENTEN: Look, if we look at last night's debate, who was the most searched candidate on Google? It was Donald Trump who was 2,000 miles away. And, you know, he was 2,000 miles away, yet he was not most searched candidate. And here is the big reason why. Look at this. Who are the top choices for the GOP nominee? Donald Trump, 58 percent going into that debate, well ahead of the rest of the political pack on the Republican side. Of course, I think there was a real question going in as well about Vivek Ramaswamy, who of course, was the top choice -- excuse me, the top most searched candidate in the first debate. Where did he land the second debate? He landed here. He was the second most candidate during the debate, and he was often attacked. And I believe we have some sound of that attack. Let's listen to it.

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NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is infuriating, because TikTok is one of the most dangerous social media apps that we could have, and what you have got, honestly -- every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we would be better served as a Republican Party if we are not sitting here hurling personal insults and actually have a legitimate debate about policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Harry, I listen to that. I'm really appreciating the Nikki Haley thing because of references to past lives. But the idea of Ramaswamy going back and forth, there is a shift in the tone. And I was wondering what that did. You were talking about who was the most searched at the first debate, second debate. Where does this leave him at this point?

ENTEN: I think there are a few things that are going on. First off, if you noticed, and as I said, a lot of folks were attacking Vivek Ramaswamy, and it seems to have made an impact. It wasn't just last night. It was in the lead-up to last night. And before the first debate we saw Ramaswamy seem to have some momentum in the polls. He was up to nine percent. He started at zero percent. But look where he is now. He's at just five percent.

And it seems to me that a lot of Republicans are recognizing how to attack Vivek Ramaswamy. You heard in that clip about TikTok. Do Republicans think that TikTok is a threat to America's national security? Look at this, 70 percent of Republicans say, yes, it is. And so I think there is going to be some more attacks on Ramaswamy going forward if they believe he is a threat between Trump and those other candidates.

MATTINGLY: It's problematic for your dance career on TikTok, as well.

ENTEN: I mean, you know, that's why I'll stick to Instagram.

MATTINGLY: Appreciate it.

ENTEN: Thanks.

MATTINGLY: Important numbers. Harry Enten, thank you, as always. Poppy?

HARLOW: So in Trump's absence, Chris Christie took the time to address the no-show frontrunner directly.

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CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, I know you are watching. You can't help yourself. I know you are watching, OK? And you're not here tonight, not because of polls and not because of your indictments.

[08:05:00]

You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on this stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things. And let me tell you what's going to happen. You keep doing that, no one up here's going to call you Donald Trump anymore. We are going to call you Donald Duck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now, someone who did not duck the debate, former governor of New Jersey Chris Christie. Good morning, Governor. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good morning, Poppy. How

are you?

HARLOW: Good. Thank you. We watched you do that last night. But Trump doesn't seem to be affected at all in the polling. I will grant you where he is in New Hampshire, but more broadly, by not showing up at these debates. Why should he attend if he feels like he has got these voters' support anyways?

CHRISTIE: First off, as you and I have gone back and forth any number of times, I could tell you that national polls just don't matter because we don't have a national primary. In New Hampshire, Trump is well below 40 percent, and I am gaining on him, as are a number of other candidates.

But the reason he belongs here is much bigger than polls or his 91 counts of indictment. He his owes it to the Republican Party voters to show up. He owes it to them to show up because there are a lot of questions on the stage last night about his record and a lot of accusations about his record and his failures as the president of the United States. If he wants the job back, he needs to make those arguments.

And he is unwilling to show up because he is afraid. He is afraid to defend that record. And all the other bluster and his fake rally yesterday in Detroit where they were bringing in Trump volunteers to act as if they were auto workers is just another part of the scam, the grift, the fraud that is Donald Trump and his campaign.

MATTINGLY: Governor, you'll, I'm sure, be shocked to know that the former president has responded to you on Truth Social saying, in part, "Chris Christie is talking about the job he did as governor, 89 percent approval rating. New Jersey wanted to throw the bum out." Talks about his border wall and safest and best border in U.S. history. Your response to that?

CHRISTIE: Well, look, the guy said -- and I was on the stage when he did it, that he was going to build a big beautiful wall across the entire border of the United States and Mexico, and Mexico was going to pay for it. And all you need to do is go to the website and take a look, the government website, and it shows 52 miles of new wall. He rebuilt some other parts of wall, but new wall, 52 new miles. At that pace, he'd only need 110 more years as president to finish the wall. And Mexico didn't pay for it. And I had some fun last night by saying if Mexico knew that we were only going to build 52 new miles of wall under Donald Trump, maybe they would have paid for 52 new miles.

This is a guy who is a snake oil salesman. And all he does all the time is either lie about what he has done or lie about what he hasn't done. And I think that the American people are going to get tired of it as we get towards voting. Remember, no voting is going to happen here until January 15 in Iowa and then soon thereafter in New Hampshire. And we will be ready to take him out when that moment comes.

HARLOW: Governor, you brought up Trump's speech in Detroit last night. He and the president went to talk to auto workers and show that there is a lot of focus on the UAW strike. I'm interested in whether you agree with President Biden who said yes yesterday when he was asked if he supports a 40 percent wage increase for the union auto workers. Do you support that wage increase?

CHRISTIE: No, I don't support a 40 percent wage increase, Poppy.

HARLOW: Why?

CHRISTIE: Let me tell you what I do support. I support -- well, I'm going to tell you what I do support. And since I don't support that, because I think it's too much. But what I will tell you is that I think people should be paid based upon how hard they work, their expertise, and the excellence they bring to their job every day. And I think the union is hurting itself by asking to be paid for 40 hour workweek and only work 32 hours. I think they are hurting themselves in that direction.

The American people want them to be paid and to be paid fairly and competitively, but they don't want them to be paid for not working. And so those kinds of demands color that 40 percent request for an increase and they color it in a bad way. I want them to be paid a competitive wage and I want them to be paid a wage that helps them to support their families in the style which they want to become accustomed to and deserve to become accustomed to. But 40 percent is too high. Nobody in the country is getting that.

And Poppy, one last thing. You know, we wouldn't be --

HARLOW: The CEO is, Governor. The CEO is --

CHRISTIE: -- needing a request that high if it wasn't for the fact that Joe Biden's inflation --

HARLOW: We're going to get on to other topics. But the CEOs of those auto companies are getting that kind of raise. That's what it's based on over the last four years. But we will move on.

MATTINGLY: Governor, what I wanted to ask you, I followed you around New Hampshire in 2016. New Hampshire was a focus back then. It's a focus now as well.

[08:10:02]

The analogs are starting to feel a little bit more palpable, not about you specifically, but about a big race, a big field, and people refusing to drop out and, therefore, nobody coalesces. Have you had discussions with the other candidates or Republicans outside the campaign space about having people drop out, should people be dropping out right now?

CHRISTIE: I love the fact that guys in the media like you, and you know, Phil, I like you, but, you know, you guys have never run for anything. You want to tell everybody when they are supposed to drop out. I mean, the fact is this campaign is competitive, and that's why I thought last night everybody up there was trying to make the best argument they possibly could to try to distinguish their candidacy.

I'll tell you this, people will drop out when money runs out. People will drop out when they don't see any pathway to winning. I am in second plates in New Hampshire. So you bet your rear end I'm not dropping out.

MATTINGLY: Governor, I am not talking about you specifically. What I am saying given where you are and where you think you are and where you think you can be, if there are six other people in this race, you have a problem coalescing the support that you would need to overtake over time. That's just a reality, I think, and you're a pretty politically savvy individual. I'm wondering if you talked to other people about getting out of the race.

CHRISTIE: I am. No, I have not approached any of the other candidates and asked them to get out race. And for anybody who has actually run for office, they know that's not the way works. People have to come to their own conclusion about that. If one of your competitors comes up to you and says, hey, drop out so it makes it easier for me to win, that usually is not the right way to approach it. Folks need to come to their own conclusions and their reality about their own situation.

What I would say is this. It is a lot better situation than it was eight years ago when you tried to make that analogy. At point eight years ago at the Reagan Library debate, there were still 17 people in the race. There are now seven this time. Give it some time. You all want to rush all this. You want to run polls that rush us to get out of the race. You want Trump-Biden? Then we should all drop out now. but then we see that 70 percent of the American people don't want Trump-Biden.

So why don't we take the time to run a real campaign? I have been in this race for three months. Look, I think when people look at that debate stage last night, Phil, what they see is if I wasn't up there, no one would be taking on Donald Trump directly and honestly, not just his failure to be there and his failures in defending our Constitution, but his failures substantively as president of the United States.

And now the RNC has under the requirements, 40 percent. You need 40 percent more donors between now and November 8th to stay on the stage. You want somebody who is going to fight Trump on that stage, all your viewers should go to ChrisChristie.com, donate a dollar, to make sure that I stay on that stage, because if I don't, no one else is going to make the case against Trump. They all want to be in his cabinet.

HARLOW: Governor, last night when you were speaking about education and teachers' unions, you took a swipe at the first lady, Dr. Jill Biden. Here is that moment.

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CHRISTIE: When you have the president of the United States sleeping with a member of the teachers' union, there is no chance that you could take the stranglehold away from the teachers' union every day. They have an advocate inside the White House every day for the worst of the teachers, not for the students to be the best they can be.

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HARLOW: Why did you say that, that way?

CHRISTIE: Because I, like other people, have looked at the most recent book that was put out about President Biden, and it talked very, very specifically about how Jill Biden told Randi Weingarten, I told you would have an advocate here in the White House for you starting day one when they moved into the White House. That's the history.

Jill Biden has been a radical advocate for the worst in the teachers' union. And that's why I brought it up, because no one else is willing to. No one else is wiling to say it. But the truth is that Jill Biden is advocating for the worst, for keeping schools closed in COVID despite the fact that her husband said that he would have them opened within 100 days of his presidency, and he didn't do that because of the pressure from his wife and from Randi Weingarten.

HARLOW: All topics that are worth addressing. My question was the wording that you chose to use, a number of people --

CHRISTIE: That's the truth, isn't it?

HARLOW: -- not just women waking up this morning or watching last night found it concerning.

CHRISTIE: Why?

HARLOW: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeting "It's disgusting, misogynistic, and if Republicans want to continue pissing off an entire nation of women, please be my guest." But you are standing by the wording, I just wanted to ask you.

CHRISTIE: I am standing by the wording. And let me tell you, being called disgusting by a hypocrite like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the probably the highlight of my day so far.

And since it's only about 4:45 in the morning out here, that's great to have a highlight this early.

Let her accuse me of whatever she wants. When you look at the kind of hypocrite that she is, the kind of things that she does and lives her life as opposed to what comes out of her mouth, please, I'd be happy to be accused of anything by AOC.

HARLOW: Governor Chris Christie. It is early there, thank you for getting up early to talk to us. We'll see you soon.

CHRISTIE: I didn't even know what time it was exactly.

HARLOW: 5;14, you were close that early. You were close. Thank you.

CHRISTIE: Yeah, not bad, not bad. See you later. MATTINGLY: Well, Nikki Haley taking aim at the Republican frontrunner who skipped the debate last night. How the Trump campaign responded overnight. Also, Senators unanimously passing a resolution officially requiring business attire on the floor.

This is after Senator John Fetterman's casual dress became a flashpoint in the Capitol his office's. One meme statement is ahead.

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NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ron DeSantis is against fracking. He's against drilling. He's been against you did it at twelve years. Where have you been?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Haley going after several of her opponents on stage last night. Haley's been rising in the polls since the first debate. She wanted to keep that momentum going. We'll see if it does. It appears the Trump campaign is now paying attention.

They sent out email last night late attacking Haley and her record. Let's talk about what happened and a lot more with CNN senior political Commentator David Axelrod. CNN Anchor Audie Cornish, CNN Senior Political Commentator Adam Kinzinger.

[08:20:00]

HARLOW: Morning, everyone. Audie, they wanted to be sort of in the mold of Reagan, right? The rhetoric, Reagan National Library, et cetera. You say, nope, they were in the shadow of Trump.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, it's very hard to have these conversations about Reagan at this point. I mean, Adam can probably talk to this more, but the person who granted amnesty or the person who fired air traffic controllers yeah, but not much of what they had to say is actually within the realm of that era of conservatism. And so, what you had was a lot of people bickering about nonsense because the stakes were really low.

It's not clear that there is a cohesive, coherent post-Trump policy. And if it is in existence, it wasn't on stage.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The Starkest thing was on Ukraine. I mean, can you imagine what Ronald Reagan would have said about some of the things that were said about Ukraine on there? But I think the big loser last night was whoever had to operate the closed caption machine, because how do you distinguish between all those people yelling at each other? But I don't think it was a lack of urgency or stakes that created that.

I think it was the opposite. I think time's wasting here and they're all vying to be the ---

HARLOW: Breakout stakes for themselves, not the country. Right? Like the urgency was there for them.

AXELROD: Granted.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What you saw is the echoes of a party that let's say about half the candidates up there, the Tim Scott's, the Nikki Haley's, the Chris Christie's echoes of a party that I kind of feel an affection for still. But that party is not the zeitgeist of the party anymore.

The Republican Party, 58% of Republicans support Donald Trump. Of the candidates up there, a good half of them probably will default to Donald Trump if their candidate of know if Ron DeSantis was out.

So, it's a concern. I'm glad there were people like Nikki Haley up there, like Chris Christie who are going to tell the truth. This is a message that for those of us that still kind of believe that someday the GOP can be what it was again, or I hate even looking back, something different, but like less Tark. Those are the messages that need to get out.

But what I saw last night was Tim Scott going after Nikki Haley and they were each hitting each other in completely asinine issues that nobody cares about. $50,000 curtains and some vote in the Senate ---

CORNISH: I mean they know each other, they have like, campaign side by side. What is this?

KINZINGER: It got creepy personal in a way. Chris Christie, I think, was a truth teller. Pence, I didn't even know he was up there it's not going to change anything. Vivek, by the way, though, I did love seeing Nikki Haley say that we all are dumber now.

HARLOW: You mean quote Billy Madison? As pointed out to me.

MATTINGNLY: This refused to accept otherwise. Good job.

KINZINGER: Thank you. I appreciate that.

MATTINGLY: On the Nikki Haley point. David and I were talking. I think this was yesterday. The days are very long at this point when you have debates and things like that. This was a moment. Nikki Haley had had some momentum coming out of the last debate. We played the sound with her. She was clearly willing to fight and battle. This is the thing I can't quite get my head around. Is it enough?

CORNISH: I know where you're going with this, and I want to stop you because it almost feels irrelevant, like I actually found Trump. MATTINGLY: Me or the question.

CORNISH: Never, I'm sorry. Because I think Trump's speech was far more interesting. Bit of counter programming because he was talking. He was doing a general election pivot in a way that I think was striking. Going to Michigan, trying to reach out to Reagan Democrats. Right, that's being in the shadow of

Reagan and trying to create a wedge between union leadership and union members and trying to stake out some ground for that particular voter that's looking to the general election.

He also, in his comments, said, "do you see a VP on stage? I don't." That was a red flag to me. Who is he looking at? And what will that person do on a day when they have to certify elections?

AXELROD: Yeah, no, I think the choice of the venue was brilliant, but the fundamental purpose of this was to say, this deal is over. Those people are irrelevant and by belittling them as unworthy of the vice presidency, he's further belittling them. What was interesting about his speech last night was he did not talk about his cases.

He did not talk about the last election. He actually --- I mean, in his own sort of free form, weird way, he stuck to the topic that he went there to talk about.

KINZINGER: What I want to say, I, as a Republican in Illinois, I got a lot of union support. This was like operating engineers, painters, carpenters, laborers, right? It's kind of a unique Illinois thing. But what I noticed is even the unions that didn't support me officially, their members, I'd say approaching 30% to 40%.

Axe can tell you, like, there's kind of unique Republican union thing in Illinois. But this idea that union

leadership now determines how the unions vote, that is completely off the table.

[08:25:00]

Union leadership decide where the money goes, but not the members.

HARLOW: David, good point. To the point that you just made about Trump last night. Didn't talk about the cases, didn't talk about the last election. Regardless of the policies that were in the last Trump term, that did not benefit these union workers, the promise of your jobs is coming back to Lordstown.

That did not, and the plant closed. If he keeps doing this effectively, is that major problem for Biden, particularly among union workers, particularly in the state of Michigan?

AXELROD: The fact that Biden went to Michigan and marched on that picket line was, I think, a direct response to the fact that Donald Trump was going to be there the next day. And he understands that there's battle for these voters. So, yes, I think it is.

What Adam says is absolutely true. I mean, this has been a long- standing challenge since Reagan for Democrats, and Trump speaks to that blue collar, frankly, white, mostly white voter, although he's making some inroads elsewhere.

Yeah, this is going to be a challenge. Let me just ---

HARLOW: Despite the record?

AXELROD: Yes, despite the record. Listen, if Donald Trump were held accountable for the record, he would be out of the game. One of his superpowers is that he manages to evade accountability for his record.

CORNISH: But to reframe it's an inflection point for us, culturally. While union membership is not kind of up, overall labor actions are. 300,000 workers went on some kind of strike or labor action this year, which means people look at them differently. It's not big, bad labor is the problem, and both candidates realize that this is a constituency to court once again, and for a long time, for Republicans, they were only the boogeyman.

I think it's an interesting moment that as a country, we are looking at the worker again as a constituency to be supported.

MATTINGLY: Stick around. Actually, I want to continue this, and I thank you for calling me irrelevant so we could pivot into a really good discussion on this that I want to continue.

CORNISH: It's just me just trying to get out of the debate about it.

MATTINGLY: All right, stick around. We're coming back to you guys in a little bit. Also, this morning, the Senate floor officially has a formal dress code. Senate lawmakers unanimously passing a resolution Wednesday requiring business attire on the floor. The most important things for the country, it comes after Georgia leader Chuck Schumer decided to stop enforcing an unwritten dress code, which sparked backlash.

Inspired by Senator John Fetterman's preference for hoodies and shorts, CNN's Moni Raju caught up with Fetterman to get his reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FETTERMAN, DEMOCRATIC SENATOR OF PENNSYLVANIA: And maintain that don't we have a lot of really more important things that we should be addressing here about the Senate? No one has directly come to me and said the world will burn if you wear a hoodie. I'm not wearing hoodies on the floor as well, too. I've maintained to just do from the door and it was never my plan to

do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now Fetterman also says he doesn't mind if his staff dresses down because congressional staffers aren't paid well and the entire could drain their finances. After the vote, Fetterman's office also issued a statement. Seriously? That's the statement? It was just the viral meme of King and Queens Actor Kevin James seems like a good statement.

HARLOW: There you have it. Former Vice President Pence going after his former boss, telling voters Donald Trump is trying to consolidate more power in the White House. He'll join us, we'll ask all the big moments from last night's debate.

MATTINGLY: And will Taylor Swift join tonight's Chiefs Game against the Jets? It is all Adam Kinzinger is talking about. The speculation already taking over the Internet. We will address it, you know you want to.

[08:30:00]