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Mike Pence is Interviewed about the Debate; Biden to Give Speech on Democracy; Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 28, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:53]

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MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My former running mate, Donald Trump, actually has a plan to start to consolidate more power in Washington, D.C., consolidate more power in the executive branch. When I'm president of the United States, it's my intention to make the federal government smaller.

We're going to revive federalism in America and states are going to help bring America back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not sure we got an answer on (INAUDIBLE).

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: That was former Vice President Mike Pence going after his former boss, who, of course, was absent from the debate stage last night. It was Pence's latest attempt to distance himself from former President Trump. Something he's been trying to do since he launched his campaign for the White House.

And the former vice president joins us now.

Sir, I appreciate you waking up this morning.

MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good morning, Phil.

MATTINGLY: What was interesting is I tried to kind of watch the debate, get my head around who was saying what and when, which I assume is difficult on the stage, too. The debate last night is - was viewed as an opportunity, an inflection point to some degree for some Republicans. Do you feel like it broke through at all?

PENCE: Well, I -- look, it was a privilege to be here at the Reagan Library. I actually became a Republican because of Ronald Reagan. And I was drawn to this party because of a set of principles, a commitment to strong defense, American leadership in the world, fiscal responsibility and the right to life and traditional values. And the opportunity to be here and to try and lay out what I think is a Republican time for choosing in the days ahead, that really from Ronald Reagan, all the way through our administration, we - we governed on that conservative agenda.

But, frankly, Donald Trump and some his imitators on the stage last night are -- are walking away from that agenda, walking away from American leadership in the world, talking the language of appeasement, prepared to ignore the national debt. Donald Trump's actually advocating an enormous tax increase on goods coming into our country. And, of course, shying away from and even, as Donald Trump did in the last week, criticizing legislation to protect the unborn. I want - I want my fellow Republicans to know that - that - that if you're looking for a consistent conservative who will lead our party and lead our country on a foundation that our party has led over the last 40 years, then I'm your man.

[08:35:04]

MATTINGLY: Mr. Vice President, what about the last several months -- and I bring this up because we spoke after you had, I think, a pretty significant speech about the point you were just making, how the party has to make a decision at this point.

PENCE: Right.

MATTINGLY: In the weeks since then, what has made you think that your message is the one that people want? You lay out your message. It's very detailed. And you have a lot of history and a record to back it up. None of it seems to have broken through at this point.

PENCE: Well, I honestly think it's - it's still early in the process. I think - I think I'm actually in the polls about where Rick Santorum was when he won Iowa, about where Mike Huckabee was when he won Iowa. And so, you know, we're - we're just going to keep our head down and keep carrying that message because I'm absolutely convinced that the majority of Republican primary voters still believe in that time- honored conservative agenda. They want to see America leading the world with a strong national defense, they want to see fiscal responsibility and less taxes, and they want to stand for traditional values. And with they look at my record, they'll see, of all the people on that stage, I'm the most qualified and the most consistent conservative.

And I think that's why people are going to our website, mikepence2024.com -

MATTINGLY: Right.

PENCE: Making contributions, making it possible for us to be out there working our hearts out to earn the support of the people of this party and ultimately the people of this country.

MATTINGLY: You know, we talked about this last time you spoke, I don't mean to be repetitive, but why are you convinced of that? What is - what is the evidence that you're feeling, you're seeing, you're experiencing on a day-to-day basis that convinces you, despite - and I'm not talking about your polls or the race polls, I'm talking about subject matter polls, where people are on policy inside the primary. It just doesn't track with that.

PENCE: Well -- well, Phil, I - to be honest with, I know, look, in your line of work you've got to go off the polls. I go off people. I go off people that are coming out to our town hall meetings on very short notice. I talk to people on the street. You know, people coming up to us and really looking at us and saying in a very heartfelt way, thank you for running, thank you for what you stand for. They appreciate our faith. They appreciate our family, our commitment to the conservative cause.

And so, you know, I've run a few times, elected six times to Congress, one time as governor, one time as vice president, and I got - I think I got a pretty good feel for what's happening on the street. And I think -- I like our chances come that January 15 Iowa caucus and we're going to work our hearts out to continue to build support.

MATTINGLY: I did mention you had a resume. It includes electoral victories for sure.

I want to ask you, you know, you made the point about the former president wants to consolidate power in the executive branch.

PENCE: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Some of the things he's been saying. What it made me think of was a recent tweet that he had, or whatever we call his social media postings these days, about Mark Milley, suggesting that to some degree he deserved execution for what happened.

Milley responded. Listen to what he said.

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GEN. MARK MILLEY, OUTGOING CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Much as these comments are directed at me, it's also directed the institution of the military. And there's 2.1 million of us in uniform.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried about your safety?

MILLEY: I've got adequate safety precautions. I wish those comments had not been made, but they were. And we'll take appropriate measures to ensure my safety and the safety my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Mr. Vice President, you've experienced threats. You've also experienced the ambivalence of the former president when threats were made and verbalized related to your life. What's your response to that?

PENCE: Well, there's no call for that kind of language to be directed towards someone who's wore the uniform of the United States and served with such distinction.

Look, I haven't agreed with every decision that - that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who just retired, made over the last two years, but I'm pretty sure most of those came out of the Biden administration, you know, pushing their political correctness and woke politics at the Pentagon.

And, you know, I think one of the things that I wish we'd have gotten to last night, Phil, is that I think the American people are literally exhausted by American politics today and they long for us to restore a threshold of civility in public life. And one of the things I hear when I'm out on the street and out campaigning is that -- that people know that - that I put a high premium on civility and on speaking in a respectful way, even when we disagree. I keep it on policy, not on personal invective. And I think it's one of the reasons why I grow more confident by the day that we're going to turn the page on this difficult and divisive time in our nation and we're going to find ways to actually come together and solve some of the problems that have been - that have been - that have been, you know, burdening the American people for many years.

MATTINGLY: All right. Former Vice President Mike Pence. We appreciate your time this morning, sir. Thank you.

PENCE: Thank you, Phil.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, well, happening today, President Biden is going to give a major address warning against ongoing threats to this country's democracy and what he sees as Donald Trump's central role those threats.

[08:40:08]

MATTINGLY: And CNN's David Culver shows us firsthand along a treacherous journey some Venezuelan migrants are making just to enter Mexico on their way to the United States.

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DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: interestingly enough, the reason we're walking right now with them, and some of them are trying to hurry up, is because they are trying to go around a migration checkpoint.

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MATTINGLY: Well, happening today, President Biden heading to Arizona to deliver a major speech on, quote, "threats to democracy." In it, the president expect to highlight the contrast between himself and former President Trump ahead of their potential 2024 rematch. And that comes as House Republicans prepare to hold their first impeachment inquiry hearing in just over an hour. A spokesperson for the House Oversight Committee has told CNN that the 10:00 a.m. hearing is expected to focus on the constitutional and legal questions Republicans are raising about Biden.

The House GOP has made Hunter Biden's business dealings a central component of their impeachment inquiry. To date there is no public evidence that the president personally received any money. Also, the government shuts down in two days and there's still a lot of hours just in case if anybody wants to pay attention to that.

HARLOW: You're such a pessimist, Phil Mattingly. They're going to figure it out, right?

MATTINGLY: David Axelrod, Adam Kinzinger and Audie Cornish are back with us.

I want to talk about this speech today. It's not that I have any disrespect for the impeachment process or inquiry or whatever they're going through down there. I think this speech is important and I think we make a mistake if we don't pay attention to it because I think a lot of people made a mistake in the lead-up to the midterms.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I mean Biden did speeches and said, this doesn't land. The coloring looks weird. The backdrop is odd. No one cares about this. And then exit poll after exit poll after exit poll said the exact opposite, which drove the overperforms.

[08:45:04]

AXELROD: Yes. Right. They noticed that, too, the White House. I mean they believed that that speech had a lot to do with setting the tone for the midterms. And I think at this point, when there's so much hand-wringing and teeth gnashing among Democrats about the president and his prospects, this is an attempt to reset the stakes of the election.

And it's smart in that I don't think continually asking for a report card in an environment in which people are very sour about the direction of the country is going to help him. But raising the stakes about the choice and what the -- what the election is about and really putting the onus on Trump is something that may.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think democracy -- the thing is, is people follow leaders. And I know we've kind of gotten away from that, this idea that leaders can actually lead people. And so by standing up and talking about the state of democracy, talking about the importance, that actually, I think, is part -- partially sets the table for what's going to happen.

And I think it's important for leaders to be very clear about the challenges we're facing. It's important for leaders to paint a clear vision. Because I'm going to tell you what, Donald Trump is going to use a lot of anger. He's going to use kind of the dark arts of leadership of influencing. We need somebody to show a path to the future and a vision for the future. And I think that's essential just for the survival of democracy.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It will be interesting to see how this speech actually compares to that speech, like what language he's going to use. Are we going to hear more about rights and Roe v. Wade, et cetera, because during the midterms you had multiple people running for secretary of state who were talking about various ways they were going to deal with election fraud. People who were very much pushing kind of the election lie of fraud in the last election. People were hearing this in commercials. They were seeing it on the ballot. And I think that that made for an atmosphere where he could step in and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is as weird as you think. Let's not do this. Now he's doing it in a different environment.

AXELROD: Yes.

CORNISH: And I'm curious to see, like, what their approach is going to be.

MATTINGLY: Is Trump the biggest -

AXELROD: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Example of that? Like in the most -

AXELROD: Well, listen, I mean I -

CORNISH: But it's different when you have a little army of accolades going around saying the same thing and saying, we're going to spread this ideology and we are going to have our hand on the ballot mechanism. I think people saw that as a real threat.

AXELROD: But the truth is, if you see - if you look at what Donald Trump has done and what he stands accused of in court and what he says, including what he said about General Milley in just the last week, he is a -- Trump 2.0 would be the delta variant of democracy, 1,000 times more virulent than the first round, and harder to control. But --

CORNISH: And will he -- will he say something that will bait Trump in a way that would be problematic for his court cases, because he is dealing with - he's been told by judges, don't go out there saying x, y and z. And maybe this will draw him out into having that conversation.

AXELROD: The thing that concerns me, and I think it should concern them, and anybody who cares about this is, the word "democracy" has become sort of trivialized. It's lost its meaning, I think. It's been bandied about so much to voters. And I think it's important to be very specific about what that means and to talk about not just what Trump has done, but what he says he will do, because, as we know, other than building walls and stuff, when he says, particularly on the vengeance front he's going to do something, he does it.

HARLOW: Final thought?

KINZINGER: Well, I just think -- I mean, it's so true. I think democracy is trivialized. I think we have to kind of re-cage the seriousness of this moment. And, unfortunately, we get stuck in the kind of day to day baseball to see what's really at stake.

HARLOW: Thank you. KINZINGER: Yes.

HARLOW: Appreciate having you guys.

So, ahead, our David Culver showing all of us firsthand the journey that some migrants are making on their way to the United States.

MATTINGLY: And, in case you missed it, Secretary of State Antony Blinken was singing the blues on Wednesday, literally.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) band (ph). Everybody knows I (INAUDIBLE).

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MATTINGLY: Yes, that was the secretary of state performing at a launch event for a new initiative to use music as a diplomatic tool promoting democracy. Blinken joked, if this doesn't clear the house, I don't know what will.

Stay with us.

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[08:52:33]

MATTINGLY: Mexico's president says he's inviting the governments of ten nations to discuss this unprecedented spike, not only in the United States, but also in his own country's southern border with Guatemala when it comes to migration. The announcement following Mexico's pledge last week to help curb the tide of migrants heading to America, which U.S. officials say is working to cut down numbers significantly.

As CNN's David Culver reports from Mexico, where he's been following a group of migrants.

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DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in southern Mexico. And we're walking with a group of migrants. We actually met this group in Guatemala. And they have been making the trek for about 18 days.

They're originally from Venezuela. A couple of families and some other stragglers who have come together and they've gotten to know each other along the way.

Interestingly enough, the reason we're walking right now with them, and some of them are trying to hurry up, is because they're trying to go around a migration checkpoint. They were picked up on the river bank on the Mexico side and they were taken in a van -- they, of course, had to pay -- and brought to just before the checkpoint. That's when they were all unloaded. And you can see that's where these folks are walking behind high grass and they're finding their way to catch up with that same van but on the other side of the checkpoint.

We should point out, we're able to go around it because we can choose any route. We're here legally. They are not in Mexico legally. In fact, they have not entered any of the countries since leaving Venezuela legally.

Their hope, of course, like everyone else, to get to the U.S. But this just shows you how extensive even what is normally an hour drive and what's going to be a whole day for them turns out to be.

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HARLOW: That is David Culver on Mexico's southern border. David, thank you, always, for that reporting.

Also happening this morning, House Republicans holding their first public hearing in the impeachment inquiry of President Biden, with the government shutdown just two days away. A live report ahead.

MATTINGLY: And could Taylor Swift's red era have her visiting gang green this weekend? The speculation that's ripping through the internet and this studio, coming up next.

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[08:58:51]

HARLOW: Jets fans could be saying welcome to New York to Taylor Swift this weekend after Swift was spotted supporting Chief's tight end Travis Kelce at last week's game in Kansas City. There is intense speculation as to if she will attend this Sunday's game against the Jets at Met Life Stadium, fueled by NFL insider Jordan Shultz (ph) and Front Office Sports. Swift has yet to comment on the rumor, but that has not stopped some fans from hoping it's true. The Empire State Building was lit up in red and white Monday for Swift's condiment choices at the Chiefs' game, ketchup and ranch. Is that - is that really?

MATTINGLY: There's a picture. And like Swift fans were like very fascinated by what appears to be ranch. I'm like, no, I feel like it's ranch. Like, that's cool. It's -

HARLOW: Why is that weird?

MATTINGLY: Ask -- I don't know.

HARLOW: I like the same thing. All right, so --

MATTINGLY: Ranch is great. I'm from Ohio.

HARLOW: How did Applebee's respond?

MATTINGLY: Oh, Applebee's, also awesome. They responded that they're in their tender era. Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes, he spoke highly of Swift after practice yesterday.

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PATRICK MAHOMES, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS QUARTERBACK: I met her. She was a - she's really cool. Good people. But let Travis said, I'm going to let them have their privacy and just keep it moving.

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MATTINGLY: Kelce himself addressed the hoopla on his podcast yesterday.

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TRAVIS KELCE, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS TIGHT END: Shout out to Taylor for - for pulling up.

[09:00:04]

That was pretty ballsy. That was pretty ballsy, yes. I thought it was awesome how everybody in the suite had nothing but great things to say about her. She looked amazing. Everybody was talking about her in great light. And on top of that, you know, the -- the day went perfect for Chiefs fans, of course.

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MATTINGLY: And it's important to note -- I would just note that if she does go and Kelce loses to the New York Jets, that relationship is over. (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: It's that - it's based on that?

MATTINGLY: I just would say, you don't want to be losing to the Jets if you're trying to hang out with a woman that you might fancy.

HARLOW: OK.

MATTINGLY: That's right. We're over on time.

HARLOW: We're going to leave it there. See you tomorrow.

MATTINGLY: "CNN NEWS CENTRAL " starts now.

Thanks, guys.