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Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Fights for His Job as Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) Pushes to Oust Him; Trump Civil Fraud Trial Gets Underway in New York; Search Intensifies for Nine-Year-Old Girl in New York. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 02, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And she is as darn good as everybody thinks she is.

POPPY HARLOW: Totally, totally.

MATTINGLY: CNN This Morning continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Kevin McCarthy caught almost everyone off- guard with a plan to work with House Democrats.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I do intend to file a motion to vacate against Speaker McCarthy.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): So be it. Bring it on. Let's get over with it.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): That's not up to Democrats to save Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Opening statements to get underway in the New York attorney general's civil fraud trial against Donald Trump and his eldest sons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The former president is expected to attend in- person.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This is the greatest witch hunt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost track of all the different venues and courtrooms and cases he has.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gavin Newsom has picked a replacement to fill Dianne Feinstein's Senate seat, the head of Emily's List, Laphonza Butler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her appointment does fulfill an important promise that Governor Newsom made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time and again we have been told what we can and cannot do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: As you can see, good morning, everyone, we're glad you're with us on this Monday, so much news, including that fast and surprise appointment by the governor of California.

MATTINGLY: Big news from Gavin Newsom. But also even though the government is open, congrats for governing. Kevin McCarthy's headache not over at all.

HARLOW: Not over, maybe getting worse.

MATTINGLY: Maybe getting worse. It is a crucial week for Speaker McCarthy as he fights to keep his job and his fate could rest in the hands of Democrats.

Congressman Matt Gaetz is leading a Republican revolt to oust McCarthy after he struck a last-minute deal with Democrats to prevent a government shutdown. Gaetz says he'll be making his move sometime this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The only way Kevin McCarthy is speaker of the House at the end of this coming week is if Democrats bail him out. You also will have to get Democratic votes to kick him out.

GAETZ: Absolutely. I will make no deal with Democrats and concede no terms to them. I actually think Democrats should vote against Speaker McCarthy for free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: A big group of Democrats that could spell trouble for McCarthy is the Congressional Progressive Caucus. It has more than 100 members. The chairwoman of the caucus, Pramila Jayapal, has said progressives will not save McCarthy. Over the weekend, the speaker was defiant in the face of that threat from Matt Gaetz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's coming for you. Can you survive?

MCCARTHY: Yes, I'll survive. This is personal with Matt. He wants to take this motion. So be it. Bring it on. Let's get over with it. And let's start governing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That's worth keeping in mind. McCarthy's deal to keep the government funded is only temporary, 47 days. We're going to be in the same exact position with a potential shutdown just next month. And one of the big unresolved sticking points is funding for Ukraine.

Joining us now, CNN Early Start Anchor and Chief National Affairs Analyst Casey Hunt. Casey, one of the things that's interesting to me right now is Democrats are not a monolith, nor are Republicans. The question I have is not can Speaker McCarthy get the votes. It's how is Matt Gaetz whipping votes right now. Do we have any sense if he can get to 218 in any way, shape, or form to actually bounce McCarthy?

CASEY HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think the question around getting to 218 is whether there's somebody other than McCarthy who can get the votes it takes to become speaker. And right now, I think the answer to that is absolutely not. And that is the central problem for Gaetz. You can't beat somebody with nobody.

However, he can, as we've discussed, create all sorts of headaches. And I do think there's a question about how many people are with Gaetz, because if it's six or ten votes, six or eight votes, that might be a situation where Kevin McCarthy could get what he needs from Democrats. If it's more like 20 votes, it becomes more complicated. And the reason it's more complicated is because of all those faces that you just showed on the screen.

And Gaetz, there's been at least one, perhaps two, Congressional aides who've been anonymously out there saying over the weekend that Gaetz is not stupid. He is a smart man who doesn't seem to, in their words, have morals. He's not dumb. He knows what he needs. And he's been courting Congressional Democrats, progressives, to try to tell them, hey, you should be with me in getting rid of Kevin McCarthy.

The Democratic establishment, I think you saw over the weekend, has been making some moves to try to keep Democrats together on this to make a collective decision about whether or not they want to save McCarthy's hide. And they clearly haven't figured that out yet.

But I will say, and, Phil, I mean, you know this as well as anybody, the former House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, was also out saying, I think you should follow the leader. She got all Democrats to follow the leader when she was in charge. Obviously, Kevin McCarthy cannot do what she did. He keeps saying, oh, I got a narrow majority, so did Nancy Pelosi, had a very narrow majority, and she didn't have these problems.

So, I do think Democrats are capable of standing together but there are some questions that still have to be answered.

HARLOW: This is what Congressman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said to Jake when asked that question. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But would you vote to vacate? Would you vote to get rid of McCarthy as speaker?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Would I cast that vote? Absolutely, absolutely. I think Kevin McCarthy is a very weak speaker.

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He clearly has lost control of his caucus. (END VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: So the question is, do the Democrats stick together and do that? I mean, Pelosi's answer to Jake also about like, I'd follow how team Jeffries was telling.

HUNT: Right. Well-- and I think that that's what the letter was aimed at people like Cortez. So, again, Democratic leaders sent a letter out to their whole caucus saying, let's not say anything about this yet. Let's have a chance to see what happens. Let's talk to each other. Let's all get on the same page.

But, obviously, people are going to start asking questions of all these members and they're going to have to answer for themselves. And I think AOC really laid out kind of a clear line for those who are in a position where she is, whose voters are not going to reward them for helping Kevin McCarthy, right?

Reality is there is a similar dynamic inside the Democratic Party. There are people who, you know, are from more moderate areas of the country for whom, you know, helping out Kevin McCarthy, they can sell that in a campaign. They can say, you know, it's bipartisan. I was governing. I was trying to help.

There are-- the demands from the left of the Democratic caucus, they play out a little bit differently than they do on the right, but they exist, right? There are voters out there who say or saying to some of these members of the House, like, why would you help a Republican? That doesn't make any sense. Kevin McCarthy is not trustworthy.

The impeachment inquiry actually is one thing that I think we're going to be talking a lot about because Democrats are upset that Kevin McCarthy, you know, gave into his hardliners and allowed that impeachment inquiry to go forward. We saw the first hearing last week. You know, that actually could come back to bite him in this fight that's about to play out this week.

MATTINGLY: Yes, there's a huge lack of trust. And you might say, well, that's obvious, these are political parties, but it's very, very serious and palpable on this.

I do-- Casey, before we let you go, big political news last night, Governor Gavin Newsom announcing in the wake of Dianne Feinstein's death that the interim replacement will be Laphonza Butler. What do you make of, one, how quick this decision was and the individual herself?

HUNT: Well, I do think Gavin Newsom had some time to think about this because, obviously, the late senator's helpful challenges were well known. I do think it's very interesting that he decided to go with somebody who potentially has a future in this seat, because the conversation had been previously that it would be somebody who would essentially take care of it while the election played out.

There are three other major candidates, Adam Schiff, Katie Porter and Barbara Lee, in particular, is one who has a lot of support from her fellow members of Congress. Newsom had promised he was going to pick a black woman for this seat. She's only the third black woman to ever serve in the Senate. But I think there is a sense that she might run for the seat, that she has political aspirations of her own for it. So, we'll see.

It could really upend the race here. If she decides she's going to step back, then, obviously, that's not what would play out.

But Lee has been trailing in some of the polling out in California, so I think it wasn't clear that she would necessarily be the choice of the voters. But I do think there are some angry Democrats in Washington. They don't want to obviously say bad things about this choice. They don't want to be saying negative things about the person that is now going to be the senator. But I think there are some people who are disappointed that this was not Barbara Lee.

HARLOW: Casey Hunt, thanks for the analysis. See you soon.

HUNT: Great to see you guys. Thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Well, just a few hours, Donald Trump's civil fraud trial will be getting underway at a Manhattan courthouse and the former president says he will be there.

CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig is at the magic wall to walk us through what we should expect.

All right, who are the parties? What are the main parties in these allegations?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Phil. This is happening just a few hours right here in New York City, and Donald Trump, by the way, is expected to be physically present for this trial. He doesn't have to be, but he's apparently made that choice.

Now, important to understand, this is a civil lawsuit, it's not a criminal case, it's not an indictment, brought by the New York State attorney general, Letitia James, of course, against Donald Trump and his adult children and his business entities. The core allegation the A.G. is making is that Trump grossly inflated his personal net worth by billions of dollars over many years.

Let me give you just real quick, there's a bunch of different properties involved. I think there's one example here that really tells the story.

Mar-a-Lago, the actual buildings at Mar-a-Lago were assessed by the Palm Beach County assessor at $20 million. But when it came time to value it, Donald Trump and his businesses claimed it was worth $500 million, obviously an enormous difference.

And then what would they do? Why would they inflate these beyond ego purposes? They would then take those inflated figures, according to the allegations, go to banks and get loans, much bigger loans, much bigger lines of credit at better rates of interest than they would have otherwise. That is the core allegation the A.G. is making here. MATTINGLY: One of the fascinating parts of this entire thing, and, Poppy, keep me in on this, I think you guys were having a pretty expansive conversation about it last week that was fascinating to me. This case can be decided by a judge.

HONIG: It is.

MATTINGLY: Not a jury. Why?

HONIG: It is, because the parties have chosen that really interesting strategic decision. Normally in a trial, in a civil trial, you'd have a judge presiding handling the law and you'd have a jury in a criminal trial, be 12, in a civil trial like this, it would be 6.

[07:10:00]

You'd have a jury deciding who's liable and who's not liable and then awarding damages.

Here, the parties have agreed we're not going to use a jury. We're going to leave this all up to Judge Arthur Engoron.

Now, Trump may be having second thoughts about that. He's already made the decision, because just last week, Judge Engoron issued a blistering ruling, ruling in favor of the A.G. on one of the important counts against Trump for persistent or repeated fraud. Judge Engoron really lit into Trump and said Trump was living in a fantasy world, not the real world.

Now, Donald Trump has responded by lashing out publicly against the judge. I won't read the whole thing, but the usual attacks on a judge. That's an unorthodox strategy to lash out at the very person who's going to be deciding your case. And it will be interesting to see today whether the judge says anything to try to limit Donald Trump's public statements about him.

MATTINGLY: Assuming social media posts are not it, what would be the defense for Trump him?

HONIG: Yes, this is not the defense. There are going to be defenses. Trump is going to fight this. His team will argue first of all, when you're assessing real estate, there is a degree of subjectivity. People can differ. The judge said in his opinion last week, yes, maybe by 10 or 20 percent, but not by 25 times, for example, like we just saw with Mar-a-Lago.

Trump is also going to argue, well, we put a waiver in our documents. Basically, what we said is all these numbers we're giving you banks, they're worthless. They actually call it the worthless clause. The judge also was not overly impressed by that. He said the worthless clause itself is worthless.

And Trump is going to argue, there's no victim here, there's no loss because the banks all got repaid with interest. Actually, it does not matter for the one count the judge already ruled against Trump on, but it does matter for the other claims. So, that will be a defense as well.

MATTINGLY: What are the potential penalties?

HONIG: Financial and the future of the business. Attorney General James is seeking up to $250 million in damages and Trump's business certificate could be canceled. They'll have to maybe install an independent monitor or an outsider to come in and unwind all the businesses. It's a real existential threat to Donald Trump's business and real estate empire.

MATTINGLY: All right. Elie Honig, a big day today, thank you.

HONIG: Lots to watch, yes.

MATTINGLY: Poppy?

HARLOW: Fascinating. Thank you both.

Okay. The search for this missing nine-year-old girl is ramping up this morning in New York State. Officials say Charlotte Senna, you see her there, was last seen Saturday camping with family and friends at Moreau State Park. That's about 50 miles north of capital of Albany.

Police say Charlotte had been biking a couple of loops with friends when she decided to do one more by herself, but didn't come back.

An Amber Alert was issued Sunday morning after an exhaustive search of the area, leaving law enforcement to believe Charlotte may have been abducted and is in imminent danger.

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GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): They rode bikes around the loop road we see. They camped. They cooked out, and they're here to make memories, the kind that lasts a lifetime. But instead the day turned into every parent's nightmare.

Hopefully, there will be a reunion. Hopefully, there will be a family that has been traumatized but is reunited. That is our prayer and our hope at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, speaking there. She is so right, John Miller, as we bring you in. It is every parent's worst nightmare.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: It is. And this is a critical time. You know, the statistics tell us in possible abductions, which this well may be, you know, that first 24 to 48 hours is critical because it'll tell you the difference between, is this someone who was taken and then released shortly after by somebody, or is there something possibly worse going on here?

And they're using just about every resource you can think of, helicopters, thermal imaging, license plate readers, video, to the extent that it's available in that park. They have some of that technology in the area, but it's not like this happened in Albany or New York City.

MATTINGLY: What about what you've seen so far, we've heard so far about what happens, stands out to you?

MILLER: The good part about it is there is a rapidity to the reporting here, which is she's riding her bike around 6:00. She goes for one more loop around this circle that she and the other kids have been riding in, and she does that by herself. But it's reported by about 6:47 after they've done their search. I think the arbiter was once they found her bike during that search, they realized, you know, she's not on it. She hasn't gone too far. She didn't get lost. Something is really wrong.

MATTINGLY: All right. We're going to keep a close eye on this. Please keep us posted with your reporting. John Miller, thank you.

MILLER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, Kevin McCarthy is under immense pressure this morning after his bill to avert a government shutdown got more Democratic support than from his own conference. Is his speakership in danger? We're going to ask Republican Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar, who voted for that bill. That's next.

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REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): I think he is in trouble. Part of that is because there has to be some level of strong leadership in our chamber. I'm just going to be totally blunt. There are a lot of trust issues in my chamber right now.

REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): If the situation were reversed and the squad tried to do the same to Hakeem Jeffries, should he be speaker at some point, I can tell you what I would do on the first and 100th vote, I would vote to table it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Kevin McCarthy's speakership facing a direct challenge this morning. That's two GOP lawmakers you just heard with very different takes on Congressman Matt Gaetz's vow to take McCarthy's speaker gavel away, or at least try.

As we mentioned earlier, McCarthy is facing pressure for his handling of the bill to avert a government shutdown and the fact that he worked with Democrats to get it done.

Joining us now, Republican Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar of South Florida, she voted for the continuing resolution that averted the shutdown. She's also a member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs in the House. Congresswoman, I appreciate your time.

One question for people who maybe don't follow your conference day to day, how widespread is the view of Matt Gaetz inside your 221 members?

REP. MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR (R-FL): I would say -- thank you for the opportunity. I would say, it's very limited, but you know that's democracy. Democracy is messy. But I would say that Kevin McCarthy is the man for the job, and he has an overwhelming majority of members within the GOP conference.

We're with him.

[07:20:00]

You know why? Because he's done a good job. And if it's not him, who?

MATTINGLY: And I think you raised the most important question at this point in time.

SALAZAR: Yes.

MATTINGLY: But in terms of Gaetz has been so public about this push and his desire to do so now, apparently, reaching the moment, what does that tell you?

SALAZAR: And good for him. Good for him. He can do it. Thank God we're in a free society. The First Amendment protects him to say whatever thing he wants to. I sit with him very often. I talk to him once in a while. He is a member of Congress, and we respect his opinion, but it does not mean that we share it.

And it's time to go to work. It's time to use these 45 days that we have from now until November 15th to put together legislation one by one and fund the government for the next year. That's it. Enough of this nonsense, because the American people out there holding two jobs and trying to figure out how to pay for rent are saying, what are these people doing in Washington? Well, we're trying to legislate. And that's exactly what we want to do, help McCarthy do that and push the cart forward.

MATTINGLY: You're making a really good point, because you now only have six weeks to try and do what hadn't been done in the nine months prior, but this is going to eat up time. Do you feel like you can get through this, over this, and actually get something done in 47 days?

SALAZAR: I'm sure McCarthy is trying to figure out how to do it. And if Matt Gaetz, as I said, he has all the right in the world to present the motion to vacate, now it's time for us to join the conference. And if we have to go across the aisle and talk to the Dems, what is so sinful about that? Nothing, because most of the people who are watching us are either independent Democrats or Republicans, right?

So, that's what we need to do. Join forces and move the cart forward. And if that entails going to the Dems, some of them, and working together for the American people, for the American exceptionality, for what has created this country to be the best country on earth, then let's do it. What's so wrong with that?

MATTINGLY: You have a history of working across the aisle on certain issues. One of the issues where there is clear majority support but hasn't moved forward yet is on Ukraine funding. It was not in the stopgap bill. You've supported it, but make clear that more transparency is needed. Do you see a pathway in your Republican conference to get that to the floor?

SALAZAR: Listen, there is no way that we can abandon Ukraine. We haven't lost one American soldier in Ukraine. If we send the message to Vladimir Putin that we are going to be pulling out, then it's going to be a very, very big war after Ukraine because Putin has a very big stomach and he wants to eat everyone around him. And right now, we're only investing 5 percent of the military budget.

We have a problem at the border that we have to take care and we have a problem with the thousands and millions of undocumented who have come in and those who have been illegally in the country for many years That's what I'm dedicating my forces on, you know, try to solve the border, seal the border, secure it, make sure that whomever comes in is that is -- has properly used or has probably come in the proper way, I should say, and then take care of those who have been here and seal the border and stop the child sex traffickers and the fentanyl.

We have -- Fentanyl has killed a hundred thousand American youths or boys and girls. We to stop that. Ukraine send the message to Mr. Putin that we're here to stay and that we don't want to and that we're going to stop in Ukraine. He cannot go -- he cannot expand the war. That's what I'm trying to say. So, leaving Ukraine is a big mistake.

MATTINGLY: Just real quickly before I let you go. As I understand it, do you think the structure of a deal is border security for Ukraine aid, that's the way you pair them and then you move it forward?

SALAZAR: Of course. You single subject bills. You fund the government at the remaining bills that we need to take care of. You take care of Ukraine and you take care of the border. And you do the people's business. That's what we're here for, not just to wear the pin. We're here to work. And all this bickering, there's no need for this because the American people are watching. And we are a nation of moderates. So, let's come together and let's move forward.

MATTINGLY: It's going to be a busy week. Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

SALAZAR: Thank you.

HARLOW: Fascinating discussion, Phil. Thank you for that.

Well, new developments overnight as failed talks have set the stage for what could be the largest health care strike in U.S. history.

MATTINGLY: And happening today, the actors union of major studios are set to resume talks for the first time since the actors went on strike two and a half months ago We'll keep you updated, next.

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HARLOW: Welcome back. This morning, 75,000 Kaiser Permanente health care workers are bracing for a possible strike, it could happen Wednesday, after their contract expired over the weekend. It would be the industry's largest walkout in U.S. history. The Eight Union Coalition seeking a new deal that includes pay increases, improvements to benefits, and protections against outsourcing.

Our Rahel Solomon joins us now for more. They're at the table. Good morning.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: But do they get a deal?

SOLOMON: Well, all eyes are on that, right? So, we have a few days. Wednesday is when, if the strike kicks off, it would kick off Wednesday.

And as you pointed out, 75,000 workers, we're talking about all parts of the health care ecosystem. We're talking about, of course, the nurses and those on the frontlines. But we're also talking about therapists, dietitians, the janitorial staff, so all sort of parts of the health care ecosystem. So, it would kick off Wednesday. If they can't reach a deal, it would last three days.

And what this would look like for patients would be longer wait times, perhaps, to see a doctor. It might be harder to fill a prescription. And some of these areas, we can show you a map, guys, of where exactly the strike, if it kicks off, would impact.

So, on the West Coast, we're talking about California, we're talking about Oregon, Colorado, but also here on the East Coast, Virginia, and D.C.

[07:30:04]

So you mentioned, Poppy, some of the issues here, like pay increases, but one of the big issues.