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Pope Suggests For First Time Some In Same-Sex Unions Can Be Blessed; Ex-Trump Chief Of Staff John Kelly Offers Sharpest Rebuke Of Trump Yet; Parents Struggling To Find New Coronavirus Vaccines For Children. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 03, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Although those three armed assailants did make off with the congressman's phone, iPad -- even his dinner.

And so, there's a lot of concern right now about safety here in this area for locals and, of course, for the leaders on Capitol Hill who represent constituents all over the country.

I want to show you there is an increased police presence this morning. We've seen at least one police cruiser on this corner since we have been here for several hours.

Now look, this is an area where we would expect to see increased patrols because of not just the amount of people that live here but also the proximity to Capitol Hill, Poppy.

But look, bear in mind it's been about eight months since Rep. Angie Craig, Democrat from Minnesota, was attacked at her D.C. apartment just across town.

So there have been a lot of people talking about the increase in violent crime in the district, including motor vehicle thefts, which have close to doubled since this time last year -- compared to this time last year, Poppy. So a lot of concern about those numbers --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Of course.

COHEN: -- at this point.

HARLOW: Of course. We're glad he's OK but terrifying for it to have happened.

Gabe, thank you for the reporting from Washington -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this morning, a woman is in the hospital after suffering critical injuries after she was hit by a driverless car in downtown San Francisco last night. Now, according to the fire department, she has multiple life-threatening injuries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RESCUE CAPTAIN JUSTIN SHORR, SAN FRANCISCO FIRE DEPARTMENT: There's a number of different concerns when we have motor vehicles at intersections -- high-speed intersections, pedestrians, lighting, nighttime. There's a lot of different factors that can come together to cause injuries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, the car, which was operated by the self-driving car company Cruise, had no driver nor a passenger to witness the accident, but the car has its own cameras that helped in the investigation.

HARLOW: Well, a break from tradition for the Catholic Church this morning. Pope Francis suggesting for the first time that people in same-sex unions could be blessed by Catholic priests on a case-by-case basis. The announcement is a reversal from 2,000 years of tradition and from his statement in March that the church could not bless same- sex unions because they couldn't, quote, "not bless sin."

This also comes after the Pope received a letter from a group of cardinals asking him for clarity on the issue. In response, the Pope reiterated that the church only recognizes marriage as a union between a man and a woman. But he says, quote, "We cannot be judges who only deny, reject, and exclude."

MATTINGLY: Well, a CNN exclusive. John Kelly, the former chief of staff to President -- former President Trump, going on the record to confirm several disturbing stories about his former boss. Jake Tapper joins us live with this reporting next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:36:17]

HARLOW: Now to a CNN exclusive. Former Trump White House Chief of Staff John Kelly setting the record straight on the record, confirming a number of damning statements made by former President Trump.

Our colleague Jake Tapper has it all in this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I, Donald John Trump --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER", ANCHOR, "STATE OF THE UNION" (voice-over): No other president has had so many former top aides making such harsh public assessments -- most recently, Cassidy Hutchinson.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: I think that Donald Trump is the most grave threat that we will face to our democracy in our lifetime and potentially, in American history.

TAPPER (voice-over): She joins a growing chorus.

MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: I think he's unfit for office. WILLIAM BARR, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: He will always put his own interests and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else.

TAPPER (voice-over): And today, Trump's longest-serving former chief of staff, John Kelly, is chiming in with his harshest criticism yet.

In an exclusive statement to CNN, Kelly says about Trump, "What can I add that has not already been said," calling President Trump, quote, "A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about."

For the first time ever, Kelly sets the record straight with on-the- record confirmation of a number of damning details about Donald Trump from background sources, including from a 2020 Atlantic story reported with unnamed sources by editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg, including the stunning detail that Trump turned to Kelly on Memorial Day at Arlington National Cemetery in 2017 and asked, "I don't get it. What was in it for them?"

This is Kelly confirming on the record stories of Trump insulting Sen. John McCain and former President George H.W. Bush because in Vietnam and in World War II, respectively, the former aviators were shot down.

Kelly describes Trump as, quote, "A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all 'suckers' because 'there is nothing in it for them.'"

"A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because 'it doesn't look good for me.'"

"A person that demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family -- for all Gold Star families -- on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America's defense are 'losers' and wouldn't visit their graves in France."

Kelly confirming on the record a story reported in the book "The Divider" where Trump tells Kelly he wants a military parade, like one he saw for Bastille Day in France, except he does not want any wounded veterans.

Kelly confirming that Trump, in 2018, in France, refused to visit graves of Americans killed in World War I.

To CNN, Kelly calls Trump a hypocrite, saying he is, quote, "Not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life, on women, on minorities, on Evangelical Christians, on Jews, on working men and women."

And he concludes Trump is, quote, "A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law." He concludes, "There is nothing more that can be said. God help us."

TRUMP: He's doing a great job as chief of staff. TAPPER (voice-over): A stunning repudiation by a man who worked side- by-side with Trump longer than any other of Trump's many chiefs of staff.

[07:40:04]

Kelly also criticized Trump for saying that former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley should be executed. In a departure speech on Friday, Milley responded.

GEN. MARK MILLEY, FORMER U.S. CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We don't take an oath to a king, or a queen, or to a tyrant, or dictator. And we don't take an oath to a wanna-be dictator.

TAPPER (voice-over): Some of the people who know Donald Trump the best now warning of the threat they think he poses if elected in November 2024.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: And Jake Tapper joins us now.

It is notable I think that you got this reporting in the same span of days that Milley made those comments, Jake. I wonder what the Trump team and what Trump, himself, is saying about it?

TAPPER: Well, we reached out to the Trump campaign before our report. We said that a former senior administration official was going on the record with us to confirm several of the details of Trump disparaging veterans and those who were killed in action as mentioned in that 2020 story by Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic magazine.

And the Trump campaign's response was to immediately disparage former Gen. Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, even though we had not mentioned Mark Milley's name and, in fact, Mark Milley played no role in the story at all. But they went after his character and his credibility.

They also attacked me and said that I should stop peddling fake news from shady sources. Obviously, this is very real news from an impeccable source. But anyway, that was -- that was their response.

HARLOW: OK.

MATTINGLY: Jake, the significance of this in normal times, a former chief of staff coming out and saying these things on the record is dramatic. In this past administration, so many people have come out and said so many things and confirmed lots of stuff. But this was different. John Kelly was different. Why?

TAPPER: I think what was the final straw for Kelly -- and I've been talking to Kelly -- I've known Kelly for a long time since before even he was the Department of Homeland Security secretary. And I think what -- I'm assuming here -- I'm interpreting. This is not a statement of fact but I think -- if I may speculate, I think the statement about executing Mark Milley might have been just the final straw for him. He's really been very upset about what Trump has been saying. Trump

has -- you know, the disparaging of Gold Star families and the disparaging of wounded veterans. The disparaging of soldiers who gave their lives in World War I has been very upsetting for him for years and years and years.

But I think -- I think the comments about Mark Milley, who served his country honorably for 40 years -- the threatening to execute him. And then, in Kelly's view, he thinks that Trump saying that publicly is basically a call to arms. A hope that one of Trump's followers will then take action against Gen. Milley. And I think that probably is what pushed him over the edge to finally come forward and give this blistering commentary about what he thinks about Trump.

And when you read the comments -- I mean, these are the comments of a patriot, of a soldier, of a Marine -- the comments of a conservative Republican. This is not him outflanking Trump on the left. But he is very, very disappointed.

HARLOW: And then we heard Gen. Milley speak out again last night, Jake, on NBC with Lester Holt. Let's just play part of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLEY: Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And I've served my country faithfully for 4 1/2 consecutive decades in peace and war. And my family has made enormous sacrifices for this country, and my mother and father before me, and grandparents before them. So I'll take a backseat to no one on loyalty to this country, and my loyalty is to the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Your thoughts on that Jake in this moment?

TAPPER: I mean, what's so crazy about this is this is all based on Milley before the 2020 election and a phone call that was approved by the Trump administration calling the Chinese because he'd received intelligence that China had gotten faulty intelligence that Trump was going to attack China. And base -- and doing basic deflection, making sure that China didn't mistakenly think that Trump was going to attack China, which all reporting suggests that he was not. And this was approved by the acting secretary of Defense.

And there really is nothing particularly controversial about this. This was just making sure that there were no misunderstandings.

But for some reason -- and this also, by the way -- this was reported in Jeffrey Goldberg's latest piece in The Atlantic -- his profile of Gen. Milley, called "The Patriot." But this also was approved in a -- in a book last year by Bob Woodward and Bob Costa.

[07:45:00]

I don't particularly understand why this would prompt Donald Trump to call for his execution and accuse him of treason when there's literally nothing treasonous about this, except for the fact that this is just another outrageous statement by Donald Trump and another comment disparaging somebody who has served his country for four decades. Somebody who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff because Donald Trump appointed him to that role, and who kept the country -- you know, kept the ship of state sailing smoothly.

I mean, there is nothing treasonous about making sure that we don't get involved in a war based on a misunderstanding by China. So I still fully don't understand what exactly is the offense that allegedly took place here given the fact that Donald Trump had not intended to attack China and this was a call that was approved by the acting secretary of Defense.

And none of it makes any sense but again, that's kind of par for the course when it comes to this particular presidential candidate.

MATTINGLY: And you make a key point both with John Kelly and with Gen. Milley, and pretty much everybody else who has spoken out from inside the administration -- Trump picked them. He selected them.

Jake, this is really important reporting. Thanks for coming on this morning.

TAPPER: Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: And with us now, CNN political commentator and former White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin. And former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson. Her new book "Enough" details the chaos and lawlessness at the end of the Trump administration.

Alyssa, we were talking about this. I want to start with you because the Jeff Goldberg Atlantic story, at the time, in 2020, that mentioned some of the stuff related to the veterans, you were quoted in that story as a White House spokesperson, saying this report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He demonstrates his commitment to them at every turn.

Take people inside that.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So I remember when this story came out it was -- you know, it hit like a lightning rod in the West Wing. The former president was very upset about it. And I spent the morning -- or afternoon running around talking to my counterparts at DOD, the National Security Council, and internally at the White House for people who would have been on that trip in France -- that was specifically alluded to because I was not working with Trump then -- to get somebody to either corroborate what was said or to say that didn't happen.

Ultimately, I took the former president's word, which, of course, I would never say that. I would not disparage the military, and went on the record with that.

I really applaud Gen. Kelly for coming forward and saying this so definitively now. I think something that -- something myself and others deal with is what's the timing that people choose to come forward. I am someone who is guilty of could I have spoken out and said things sooner? Could I have made that more clear?

But what matters is this. General Milley, who I worked for at the Department of Defense, Gen. John Kelly, and General Mattis have all spoken to the unfitness of Donald Trump, and that has to break through. These are the senior-most military leaders in the country saying he doesn't understand the Constitution and the role of the military. And also, just the duty to the Constitution over any individual man.

HARLOW: And Cassidy, I'm glad you're here and welcome to the table with us.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS, AUTHOR, "ENOUGH": Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: You also write in your book and you've said in -- you said in your interview with Jake, which was really illuminating, and with Kaitlan last night you believe Donald Trump is a grave danger to the country.

You were on the plane with him at the time that The Atlantic story that Alyssa was just referencing --

HUTCHINSON: Yes, we were. Sort of working --

HARLOW: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: -- and in the midst of it.

HARLOW: Right. You're in the air and you're -- you talk about Trump in your book as being visibly distraught. And you write, "It was a side of the president most Americans never have an opportunity to see -- sympathetic, concerned, apprehensive. It's a side he keeps disguised for fear, I suspect, of appearing weak."

He also insisted to you none of this was true.

HUTCHINSON: Right.

HARLOW: Do you -- did you know when he was telling the truth or not?

HUTCHINSON: You know, sometimes it was easier to discern than other times. But like Alyssa said, this time we took the word -- we took his word for it.

But with that said, too, disparaging the military is sort of the -- one of the easiest issues for him to avoid. They're easily the most respectable group of Americans. They are the Americans that are willing to lay their life down for this country.

I'm going to take the word of military members like Gen. Kelly or like Mattis, or like --

HARLOW: Milley.

HUTCHINSON: -- Milley who are coming out saying this because they are the ones that are willing to lay their life down for the country when Donald Trump, who has proven time and time again that he has no respect for institutions and he has no respect for our rule of law.

HARLOW: We have a lot more to talk to you both about so stick around, OK? We'll see you back here in just a few minutes. There's a lot more to get into.

But we also have this ahead. A rollout that's been filled with hiccups and issues that made it challenging for parents to get their children the updated COVID vaccine. Dr. Sanjay Gupta here with what you need to know.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:53]

HARLOW: So, welcome back.

This morning, some parents are struggling to get the updated COVID vaccine for their children as an expected winter uptick of cases looms. It is -- this all comes as the rollout of the new shots is facing a host of complications making it even harder for pediatric doses, which are smaller doses, to become available due to their different size and packaging.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us live now with a lot more. Good morning --

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: -- to you, Sanjay.

I've been hearing ads all over the place of nurses and doctors talking about the efficacy and the safety of COVID vaccines for children. So for parents who say OK, fine, I'm going to go get it, they should be able to get it easily.

What's happening?

GUPTA: Yeah. I mean, there seems to be a few things that are going on here.

First of all, keep in mind this is the first year the federal government has not handled the rollout. Now, there's been -- there's been problems in the past with the rollout to be fair, but I think that's part of this. You don't have sort of a national strategy here. It's more of a patchwork strategy.

Also, another thing. When the public health emergency ended in May several things ended alongside that, including the ability for pharmacies to give these shots to people as young as three years old. That was part of the public health emergency. Otherwise, pharmacies can't typically do it until children are at least six years old. So it makes it more challenging. You've got to go to the pediatrician's office and make those appointments. Sometimes they don't have the shots as you -- as you pointed out, Poppy.

There also seems to be an increased demand. I mean, in the past, there hasn't been a huge uptick for these shots, especially in young children.

But take a look at what's happened between June and September. There's been about a five-fold increase overall in hospitalizations. About half of those have been in children between the ages of zero and four. So really young children are the ones that seem to be getting hit hardest by this.

And I should point out as you look at those numbers, for most children under the age of five who are hospitalized, they did not have an underlying medical condition, OK? So that's another reason that pediatricians are saying everyone needs to get vaccinated, not just people who you consider at high risk because of some underlying problem.

MATTINGLY: Sanjay, what if anything is the government -- the CDC saying about the rollout up to this point?

[07:55:02]

GUPTA: I think mainly, the message we've been hearing from them is urging patients -- I mean, I think a lot of pediatricians I've talked to said why didn't they have this in place before the start of the school year? We knew the numbers were going to get worse.

But Mandy Cohen, the CDC director, was asked about it, and here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANDY COHEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We do know that our manufacturers and distributors were getting out the adult vaccines first. So that was what was shipping in the first number of days and now they are shipping pediatric vaccines. So what I would say is that the supply is filling out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So we'll see over the next couple of weeks. I mean, again, there hasn't been a huge demand for this to be honest -- for young people in the past. That demand seems to be higher. They wanted to get the medications to adults first -- these shots. But hopefully, it will fill out like the CDC director is saying.

HARLOW: Sanjay, this new shot -- we were talking to our pediatrician about it and I had a lot of questions. And one of them was does it help children not contract COVID or does it just help if they get it, in terms of helping prevent them from getting quite sick? Do we know?

GUPTA: Yeah. So I -- this has always been a source of confusion so let me explain it this way. It certainly helps with the second part of your question so people do not get as sick from it. That's always been sort of the greatest attribute if you will of these vaccines.

If you do get sick -- if you do contract the virus while you have the vaccine you could still spread it but it may lower your chance of contracting it in the first place.

HARLOW: OK.

GUPTA: So it can help on both those things.

Now, if you get -- people still get COVID even after they've been vaccinated and they can still transmit it. They accumulate that virus in their nose, their upper airway, and that can transmit. But it can lower your chance of getting it in the first place and lower your chance of getting sick if you do.

HARLOW: Both really important things.

GUPTA: Yeah.

HARLOW: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

GUPTA: You got it.

MATTINGLY: Well, in just a few hours, both Hunter Biden and Donald Trump will head to court. We're going to have a preview of the big legal day ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL)

[08:00:00]