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CNN This Morning
Trump Says He'll Testify; Rep. Pat Ryan (D-NY) is Interviewed about Congress; Five Shot at Morgan State University; More Charges Expected in New York Kidnapping. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired October 04, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Just saying.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, just glass houses and all that.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
MATTINGLY: The idea that Trump says he's going to testify. He's said it in the past. Do we have any reason to believe this time he actually means it?
GINGRAS: I mean, I think he does mean it. He said it yesterday. He's been on the witness list for both the defense and the state's attorneys. You know, I think it's going to be sooner than later because it does feel like the state's attorney is going to call him to the stand and he's certainly eager to take his own defense, and as we've been saying, defend his brand.
Listen, this is something we didn't expect him quite honestly to come back to court today. We were hearing originally that it was just going to be a Monday/Tuesday thing. But he is in court. He is very engaged with his attorneys, listening to the testimony as, you know, the court reporters noted inside, it's very different when you have the former president sitting there as you're testifying. So, there may be some sort of truth to why he wants to physically be there. But we certainly do expect him to take the stand at some point in this three month trial.
MATTINGLY: All right, keep us posted.
Brynn Gingras, thank you.
Let's bring in CNN legal analyst, and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.
Elliot, the idea of a gag order -
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
MATTINGLY: A lot of people have been wondering if anything in any of the cases would eventually get to this point. The judge said not abiding by it would involve serious sanctions. What actual teeth does this have?
WILLIAMS: Not a lot because, number one, in order to have a serious sanction against a defendant who's a billionaire, you really have to be sanctioning him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars, to really sort of stick it to him. And that's just not going to happen under the laws of New York court, court policy or procedure.
You could put him in prison.
HARLOW: I was just going to ask that.
WILLIAMS: You can do that. It's less likely, but it's certainly doable. And, frankly, Poppy, that's the one thing that I think is going to work at this point.
HARLOW: That threat?
WILLIAMS: Yes, because, just think about it, it's -- nothing has worked, whether it is warnings, threats of gag orders or anything else. You've got one penalty left, right?
HARLOW: I think you bring such a good point. Erin Burnett was saying this last night, and I was just saying, yes, through the television because he's been warned so many times on these fronts and nothing has happened.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HARLOW: That's the thing. It's like, why should he believe it this time?
WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Now, what was interesting about this one was that it was - he'd threatened -- he made comments about the judge before.
HARLOW: Right.
WILLIAMS: And the judge sort of brushed it off. There's no jury here and there's, in effect, any comment he made wouldn't taint or prejudice the jury pool. The one thing he - so he can say whatever he wants and piss off the judge a little bit.
HARLOW: Yes, yes.
WILLIAMS: Going after court staff is a line that you just do not cross as an attorney. This is a relatively junior career appointee. And you just don't do that. It can lead to someone getting hurt but also undermine the integrity of the court. This was the bridge too far here.
MATTINGLY: Elliot, I'll admit, particularly sitting in front of this building, I might be a little jaded and cynical, but the idea that Trump will testify, we've heard it before.
HARLOW: Yes. WILLIAMS: Yes.
MATTINGLY: Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I would love to speak. I would love to. Nobody wants to speak more than me.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS: Would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of - of these events?
TRUMP: One hundred percent.
REPORTER: Are you going to talk to Mueller?
TRUMP: I'm - I'm looking forward to it actually.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, would you say - are you more likely to sit for an interview now?
TRUMP: My lawyers are working on that. I've always wanted to do an interview.
I would love to speak. I would love to go. Nothing I want to do more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: So, that's the actual basis for my skepticism.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
MATTINGLY: Do you think he actually sits down? What are his lawyers telling him?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, here's the thing, he may not have the choice if the plaintiffs call him to testify. This is a civil case. And the other side can -- the state can call him to testify. If this were a criminal prosecution, they couldn't. He can't -
HARLOW: But he can plead the fifth, but that can be used against him.
WILLIAMS: He can plead the fifth, and it's used against him. So, yes.
HARLOW: How would you cross-examine him?
WILLIAMS: I think you just let him talk and let him talk himself into trouble. At this point, this is a defendant who seems to know that he is going to lose and he's really just attacking the court and playing to the cameras and playing to voters. I think you just let him talk, let him run his mouth, let him contradict himself. Shove those receipts and pieces of paper in front of him. All those conflicting statements are going to work for the - for the prosecution's case.
HARLOW: Yes. A lot of work cut out for his lawyers if they're going to train him for testimony. WILLIAMS: Yes.
HARLOW: Imagine telling him, short answers, direct, you know --
WILLIAMS: Give him a leash. If you're the prosecutor, let him go.
HARLOW: All right, Elliot, great to have you.
MATTINGLY: Yes, thanks, buddy.
HARLOW: And in person.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HARLOW: Nice to be with you. Thank you so much.
MATTINGLY: Well, every single House Democrat in attendance voted to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy from his job yesterday. So, who do they think should replace him? We're going to ask Democratic Congressman Pat Ryan, next.
HARLOW: And a new nationwide strike just kicked off, this time among thousands of health care workers from Kaiser Permanente. What they are calling for. What it could mean for hospitals across this country. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:38:51]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": After Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz filed a resolution that would remove Kevin McCarthy from the speakership, McCarthy tweeted, bring it on, and Gaetz replied, quote, just did. You know, a lot of people think Joe Biden is too old to govern, but it sounds like these guys aren't old enough.
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Back in January Congress had to vote a record 15 times for McCarthy to get the speaker's job. But to remove him, just one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Well, it didn't take long for the writers, now back at work, you have some pretty rich content to -
HARLOW: A good week to be back.
MATTINGLY: By the building behind us here on Capitol Hill where, for the first time in history, the speaker of the House has been forced out of the job. As it currently stands, there is no formally elected speaker. McCarthy, though -- Kevin McCarthy blame - blame squarely on eight Republicans who voted to remove him, but also blaming Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think today was a political decision by the Democrats. And I think - I think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution.
My fear is the institution fell today because you can't do the job if eight people -- you have 94 percent of -- or 96 percent of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side.
[06:40:11]
How do you govern?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Joining us now to respond, Democratic congressman from New York, Patrick Ryan. He, along with every other Democrat who was present yesterday, voted to remove McCarthy as speaker.
Congressman, I want to start there because in terms of who's undermined the institution over the course of the last several decades, I don't know that anybody on the Republican side necessarily wants to get into that argument. But, more broadly, I was surprised when every single Democrat stayed together on this. Why?
REP. PAT RYAN (D-NY): We've been together from day one. And it's a - it is such a stark contrast -- this is my first year in congress, my first full term. From day one under McCarthy it's been chaos, division, dysfunction and no results, no delivery. We have been at critical points, the Democrats, the saving grace, averting a fiscal cliff a few months ago, averting a shutdown last week.
If folks are looking as we go forward, which is what I think we need to do and make sure we're actually providing results, the Democrats are the ones that have been the responsible party, the patriots, actually putting the country before the partisanship. McCarthy, unfortunately, has just presided over unprecedented chaos.
HARLOW: McCarthy would say that he went along with you guys, he worked with you guys on both of those fronts to do that. President Biden always says, you know, consider me versus the alternative. Now the question for you guys, doing this unanimously is, do you believe one of the alternatives that is out there, the names being floated right now, Scalise, Jordan, Hern (ph), are better for the country?
RYAN: Well, I -- I think we're thinking about this the wrong way, to be honest. The same --
HARLOW: You need a speaker and McCarthy's not going to run again.
RYAN: Well, I think we need Hakeem Jeffries as the speaker. I mean he presides over and has unified the plurality of - of the House and - and guided us to partner and unify with about half of the Republicans on those key votes.
HARLOW: And you think five Republicans agree with you on that? RYAN: I think five Republicans or more have to zoom out, recognize the moment we're at in history where -- unprecedented territory. What happened yesterday has never happened in almost 250 years.
What's -- what we've been doing has not worked. I'm calling on five Republicans to unify with us as Democrats, support Hakeem Jeffries, and let's move the country forward. Let's deliver economic relief. Let's defend democracy. Let's protect reproductive freedom. That is what people in my district, that's what people across the country want.
MATTINGLY: One of the things I heard several times from Republicans last night, but I think McCarthy also illuded to it at his press conference was, of course frontliners would want him out. He's a fundraising behemoth. He has the whole political operation. He's going to spend tens of millions of dollars to try and knock you out.
RYAN: Right.
MATTINGLY: Try to keep you from here during your special election. Is there any truth to that, that this was a political -- you want to take out their biggest fundraiser?
RYAN: I think that tells you everything you need to know about how Kevin McCarthy thinks about the world as truly a political hack, a career politician who just hasn't probably talked to folks, real people in his district and across the country, for a long time.
I served 27 months in combat because I love this country, I love our democracy. I'm here to try to hold it together, to build unity and restore trust. And to use those kinds of arguments, it shows why he failed as a leader.
HARLOW: Everyone wakes up this morning and they now know there's no speaker. And we were talking at the beginning of this show about the crises that could happen at any moment over the next week when everyone is home before they come back and try to get a vote. What do you say to them about how you guys will handle that? What - what would you do if something catastrophic happened?
RYAN: Well, and I've been communicating with leaders in my district, constituents in the district immediately to help them understand why I made the - the decision I did, which I took very seriously, and what this means. It is important to reassure folks that we do have a speaker pro-tem. The -
HARLOW: They don't have -
RYAN: The administration -
HARLOW: Power.
RYAN: Is going to continue to drive forward.
What we have to focus on is, we need a speaker. We need to avert another potential shutdown in essentially 40 days. And so we need to get our act together and, again, act as patriots, not the same partisan bickering that's gotten us to this point for really my whole adult life.
MATTINGLY: Before we let you go, you made the point that there are Republicans who work with Democrats, there are Republicans who certainly disagree with the path that the conference has gone. Well, you remember, the Problem Solvers Caucus. I know that there was a lot of anger from the Republican side. It's a moderate caucus. They work together. They're pretty close to one another.
Saying that it might fall apart based on the decision by Democrats to vote against McCarthy - or to vote him out. Is that - is there truth to that, that this may actually set things in a worse spot between the members who actually work together?
RYAN: I'm not in the Problem Solvers Caucus, so I haven't been part of those conversations.
MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE).
[06:45:01]
RYAN: But - but I do think that McCarthy's decision to cave to the MAGA extremists, to lower the threshold -- I know this is very wonky, but to lower the threshold for a motion to vacate to one vote, he -- he enabled and empowered the most extreme forces. So, we have to move away from that. I think some sort of changes to get us back to rules that - that incentivize cooperation is critical because, again, what - what we've had the last nine months has not worked at all.
MATTINGLY: Brian Fitzpatrick and Scott - and Josh Gottheimer are going to be very upset that I had their roster wrong.
HARLOW: On the Problems - that's OK, Phil Mattingly.
MATTINGLY: I'm slipping. I'm slipping. I'm missing the caucuses.
HARLOW: Phil Mattingly never makes a mistake. Let me just tell you (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: This is devastating to me. I've been gone too long. This is why we're back here.
RYAN: It's early. It's early.
HARLOW: He's very excited to be back.
MATTINGLY: Thank you, very much, for your time. We appreciate it, sir.
RYAN: Thank you.
HARLOW: Yes, thank you. And thank you for your service to this country as well.
RYAN: Of course. HARLOW: Sad to report this mass shooting at Baltimore's Morgan State
University. This happened overnight during homecoming week. We are live on campus. We'll bring you the latest in that investigation.
MATTINGLY: Also, new details on the man accused of kidnapping nine- year-old Charlotte Sena.
Stay with us. We'll have more, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:50:11]
HARLOW: Well, this overnight, a mass shooting on an American college campus. Baltimore Police say five people, four of them students, were injured in last night's shooting on the campus of Morgan State University. This happened as students were celebrating their homecoming week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morgan State?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got four shots, uh, right across from the (INAUDIBLE) exit at, uh, Thurgood Marshall. Argonne.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot fired. Gunshots heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Let's get right to Gabe Cohen. He is live on the scene of this terrible mass shooting.
I know classes are canceled today. What do we know about the shooting and the condition of those injured?
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, this morning the search for a shooter continues. Police haven't indicated at this point that they know who did this or what the motive might have been.
As for those five young people who were shot, four of them Morgan State students, all of them, fortunately, are expected to survive.
But, look, this was, as you heard in that sound, a frantic scene last night around 9:30 as this all unfolded. Police on patrol in the area hearing those gunshots, racing in to five those five injured people.
And that's when the school went into lockdown. A shelter in place order was issued to students as a SWAT team combed building to building trying to find whoever did this. As you mentioned, unsuccessful at this point. They're still trying to find that shooter.
Classes, though, canceled today.
And, look, Poppy, this was supposed to be a time for celebration It is homecoming week here at Morgan State. Students were actually between events when this all unfolded.
And this is the third straight year that homecoming has been marred by violence by a shooting here on this campus.
Take a listen to Baltimore's mayor speaking about this shooting last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR BRENDON SCOTT (D), BALTIMORE: We are dealing with, not just here in Baltimore, not just at Morgan State University, but across this country of the United States, an epidemic when it comes to guns and gun violence.
We have to stop saying not one more. We need action now.
When is enough going to be enough?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: And, Poppy, there is this broader context of the growing number of shootings on college campuses, including that mass shooting on Michigan State's campus earlier this year. More than 500 mass shootings across the United states this year alone. Alarming numbers, Poppy, and really concerning for students and, of course, parents who send their kids, young adults, to places like Morgan State, hoping that they're going to be safe.
HARLOW: Of course. Every parent's hope. And three straight years of homecoming marred by violence there, Gabe, it really says it all.
We're wishing the best for the victims. Thank you for the reporting.
MATTINGLY: Well, also this morning, new details about the abduction of nine-year-old Charlotte Sena, taken from a New York state park while camping with her family. Court documents show the kidnapping suspect, Craig Ross, owned property only 1,400 feet from the Sena family home.
CNN's Jean Casarez joins us live from the scene of the investigation.
Jean, we're starting to get more details about what actually happened here. What more have we learned about the suspect?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, CNN has learned that law enforcement has not yet interviewed nine-year-old Charlotte Sena. They are waiting for specialized forensic interviewers to arrive. As of late yesterday, they had not gotten into town.
But these are skilled interviewers who interview young children that have been involved in horrendous, but survived, situations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ (voice over): A dramatic investigation still unfolding after a miraculous turn of events in the disappearance of Charlotte Sena.
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): It's been a long two days, but tonight our prayers have been answered.
CASAREZ: The nine-year-old girl found alive Monday night appearing to be physically unharmed after disappearing from a campground in upstate New York two days earlier. Authorities charging 46-year-old Craig Nelson Ross Jr. with her kidnapping. Searching the property where he lived in a trailer behind his mother's home and where he allegedly held the nine-year-old captive.
The break in the case came at 4:20 a.m. Monday, 17 miles away where police were watching the Sena family home. A car pulled up, law enforcement observed someone dropping something into the family's mailbox.
HOCHUL: State police merely go to the mailbox and identify what is a ransom note that had been left behind for Charlotte.
CASAREZ: A fingerprint on the note which demanded money matched those from a 1999 drunk driving arrest. It led police to Ross and that camper where he lived.
[06:55:02]
Monday evening, around 6:30, SWAT teams moved in.
HOCHUL: After some resistance, the suspect was taken into custody, and immediately the little girl was found in a cabinet, cupboard. She was rescued. And she knew she was being rescued.
CASAREZ: The good news delivered to the community during a prayer service for Charlotte.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And God has answered our prayers.
LARRY DEMING, PASTOR, MOUNT ZION CHURCH: So excited. We came together, opened the doors to pray, and - and we're seeing a miracle already.
CASAREZ: Charlotte was taken to a hospital to be check out. Her family saying in a statement, "we are thrilled that she is home, and we understand that the outcome is not what every family gets. A huge thank you to all of the agencies that were mobilized, all of the families, friends, community, neighbors, and hundreds of volunteers who supported us and worked tirelessly to bring Charlotte home."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all just breathing a sigh of relief now just, you know, for them and her children, but for all the children in the neighborhood. You know it's -- we feel safe again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: At this point Ross is charged with first-degree kidnapping. He remains in this jail behind me without bail. At this point he has not spoken with law enforcement. CNN learned when he was arrested, he immediately asked for a lawyer. He is being represented by the public defender.
Phil. HARLOW: All right, Jean Casarez, thanks so much.
HARLOW: The House of Representatives without a speaker this morning. We will speak with a Republican congressman who opposed Kevin McCarthy's ouster. Who will he support to be the next speaker? Congressman Mike Lawler here with us live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:00:00]
