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House Scrambles to Fid Next Speaker; Bidens' German Shepard Involved in More Incidents; U.S. to Transfer Weapons to Ukraine; Biles Leads Team USA to 7th Title. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 05, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: He was saying, you know, things are going to be quite extraordinarily different. We still don't' know exactly what he meant by that. Seemed to have some fore knowledge. In this case he seemed to have some fore knowledge that Gaetz was going to try to take down Trump and had been behind it.

What's significant is the - is the threat to primary, anybody who defends Speaker McCarthy. If you're not an extremist, you're his enemy. And the way that has sway among some folks inside the Republican Party because of fear of the base and his connection to Donald Trump.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I keep thinking about this question. I was thinking about it on the way home from Washington yesterday, and this morning. What did getting rid of McCarthy solve? So, that's his aim, right? Seriously.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: What did it solve for them?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look -

HARLOW: For him? Or all of them?

HOOVER: Here's exactly what it solves. First of all, I want to be careful not to give Steve Bannon too much credit for being the mastermind of any of this.

AVLON: Fair enough. Yes.

HOOVER: I mean Matt Gaetz filed that motion. Matt Gaetz was the reason Kevin McCarthy ended up becoming speaker the last time. Remember it took 15 rounds, OK. This - all of this -- Steve Bannon just wants to burn it down -

AVLON: Yes.

HOOVER: Because he wants to have an impact, because he wants to have his mark on something. He doesn't want to build anything. And so what does he get? He gets a win. He gets a notch on his belt

because they were able to help -- he was able to, like, you know, get a "New York Times" column written about him, about his marginal role in taking out Speaker McCarthy.

The truth is, we all knew Speaker McCarthy was only going to make it maybe until August. You know, he got an extra two months.

AVLON: Yes.

HOOVER: This conference is actually, you know, deeply divided, completely factionalized. There's no leadership. I mean - and, frankly, I don't have any sense about how they're going to resolve this and I'm talking to Republicans all the time. I mean there is no clear path to how we're going to have a speaker in the next 45 days unless it gets so painful that some Republicans take one for "the country" and help -

AVLON: What a crazy idea, you know, putting - putting country before party.

HOOVER: And - and - because - because the truth is, if they do that - if they do that, they will lose their seats.

AVLON: But -

HOOVER: I mean that's where this country is.

AVLON: No.

HOOVER: I - you - I love your idealism.

AVLON: Thanks, babe.

HOOVER: That is not realistic. Like -

AVLON: But, no, look, here's what's realistic. You know, there are 18 Republicans who represent districts where Joe Biden won. I'd like to see the moderates actually have the same sort of spine and cojones, frankly, as folk on the far right. I know it's the fear of the primary that seems to motivate everybody in politics beyond anything resembling the national interest.

HOOVER: Because they'll lose!

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Shouldn't there be a legal strategy in place or other strategy in place as it relates to removing a speaker, right? You remove a speaker but have no plan in place to present an alternative to that (INAUDIBLE)?

AVLON: No, because they just -- because this isn't about plans. It's not about strategy. It's about brute force and fear and division.

JACKSON: But things have to make sense.

AVLON: No, they don't. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: So - so, Joey, you know --

HARLOW: In Washington, Joey?

MATTINGLY: I love - I love this.

JACKSON: Forget it.

MATTINGLY: But I just want to tell you, welcome to Congress. And I'm sorry.

HOOVER: Congress. That's why you're a lawyer.

MATTINGLY: I do -- just stay in your - in your happy place, where there are -

HOOVER: Where the rule of law (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: Where there are rules of - rules of law.

Speaking of which, I do want to ask you, because "The New York Times" also has reporting on Rudy Giuliani and that he had -- heavy drinking and allegations of that, to which Giuliani responded. I think we have the sound, right?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: Maybe I should sue them for that?

QUESTION: Comment on that?

GIULIANI: Yes, I will comment that if I have an alcohol problem, I should be in the Guinness Book of World Records. Seventy-nine-years- old and I'm an alcoholic.

When the hell was I drinking? I was working 24 hours a day. It's a big damn lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: To be clear, the reason why this matters, beyond whatever Rudy Giuliani's personal issues are, or alleged to be, is the special counsel, according to "The Times," has been asking about this and potentially it plays into the advice that the former president was getting. What does that -- can you walk us through that?

JACKSON: Yes. So, the reality is this, right, all cases are about factual renditions which occur in the courtroom. But if you're a lawyer, and you have an obligation to advise, right, that advice presumably is based upon coherent evaluations and facts, coherent evaluation of any particular evidentiary issues. And so, was Giuliani drinking could be fair game inasmuch as, not to be inflammatory or not to be defamatory, but in term what was his analysis? Was his analysis (INAUDIBLE)?

HARLOW: You mean a defense for Trump to say, on an advice of counsel defense?

JACKSON: Well, if there is such an advice of counsel defense.

HARLOW: Yes.

JACKSON: But if you're relying upon advice of counsel, you would presumably think that advice would be cogent, and that will be shocked (ph), and that will be in tune with reality. And so --

AVLON: And people in the Trump White House saying that Rudy had been drinking on election night when he was giving the advice to just sort of declare - to declare victory. And that's, I think, why it's of interest to Jack Smith.

HARLOW: But - but in the courtroom -- all right, we've got to go.

AVLON: What?

HARLOW: To be - to be saved.

All right, he continued.

MATTINGLY: Again, the wraps are suggestions. We don't actually have to (INAUDIBLE).

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: Are they?

MATTINGLY: No, they're not.

Thank you, guys, very much.

HARLOW: Thank you.

HOOVER: Have a good one, guys.

HARLOW: Commander Biden in more trouble? New reporting about why the first dog is no longer at the White House.

MATTINGLY: And this video just in to CNN showing migrants rushing the border near El Paso as the Biden administration gets ready to move forward in building some border wall.

[06:35:01]

We're going to have new reporting ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: This morning we're learning that Commander Biden is out of the White House. We're talking about the first couple's two-year-old German shepherd, Commander, who has been removed from the residence, we've learned, after it appears he was involved in more biting incidents than the 11 that had been reported.

Our Besty Klein joins us from the White House with this reporting.

I think it was last week we were talking about he bit a Secret Service agent and now it's more than was thought?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yes, so we knew over the summer that Commander Biden had bit about 10 Secret Service employees. And that number grew last week to 11. But in the course of my reporting, talking to White House sources, it became clear that that number was actually much higher. It was in the dozens. And it wasn't just Secret Service, it was residents, staff and other White House personnel.

Now, those bites really ranged in severity. We know that one person was treated at a hospital, but other people were undocumented and untreated for these injuries.

MATTINGLY: Betsy, your story's fascinating. Obviously everybody focuses on Commander and the dog and everybody just likes to talk about dogs generally, but you also get at a - what you report is a very real tension between the Biden family and the Secret Service. Walk me through that.

KLEIN: Yes, so this started really back in 2021 when there were incidents with the Biden's first dog, Major, who was biting Secret Service and other resident staff.

[06:40:01]

And that was reported at the time. But sources tell me that that really led to a breach in trust. It was a very stressful situation for the president and first lady. And, you know, Secret Service says that there is -- any report of tension there is categorically false. But one source that's familiar with the relationship described it to me at combustible.

HARLOW: And what happens to Commander now?

KLEIN: Yes, so, you know, it's a workplace safety issue. Now, I think we know that the White House is a house, but it's also a workplace for hundreds of people.

HARLOW: Yes.

KLEIN: And sources I talked to said that it is really a - they were concerned about their safety, their colleague's safety and something had to be done. And I think there was a recognition by the president and first lady that they needed to take some steps.

So, as we were asking these questions to the White House about workplace safety last night, heard from the White House, from communications director to the first lady, Elizabeth Alexander. She said, Commander is not presently on the White House campus while the next steps are evaluated.

Now, I think it's important to remember that this is the president's dog. He travels with them on the weekends when they're in Delaware or at Camp David. He's a part of the family. So what happens next is going to be really important.

HARLOW: Yes. So, we don't know, right, the answer to that - that key question.

Really interesting reporting. Thank you, Betsy.

KLEIN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Funding for the war on Ukraine is front and center in this leadership battle in Washington. Meanwhile, in Ukraine, this. CNN is on the ground seeing firsthand why that funding is so critical.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:30]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you willing to move forward with an apex (ph) for Ukraine if you're speaker?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I'm - I'm - I'm against that. What I understand is, at some point we're going to have to deal with this operations process in the right way. And we're going to try to do that in the next, what are we down to, 41 days. The most pressing issue on Americans' minds is not Ukraine, it is the border situation and it's crime on the street.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was Congressman Jim Jordan talking to our colleague Manu Raju. Of course, he's now a top candidate to be the next House speaker. He has also been part of a minority group of Republicans that have really driven opposition to more Ukraine aid over the course of the last several months.

Now, just moments ago, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy weighed in on the chaos in Washington, conceded that the U.S. is going through a, quote, "difficult election period." This as CNN has new exclusive reporting that the U.S. is transferring weapons it seized from Iran to Ukraine.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is live for us in eastern Ukraine with more.

Fred, we talk to much about the politics of this or the numbers of this. the one the ground version of this, explain to people what this actually means, what this fight is in reality.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, on the ground here the Ukrainians certainly extremely concerned about some of the things, Phil, that they're hearing out of Washington. And the reason for that is they say any delays in aid coming from the United States could cost them a lot of lives on the battlefield because they're already suffering critical ammo shortages. We were with some units fighting on the front line and we saw that

firsthand. Here's what we witnessed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice over): The artillery troops need to move fast. Russian drones might be in the air. Line up, calibrate, fire.

Three rockets, that's it. Even though this grad launcher would be more effective firing large salvos.

It's not very precise, this soldier named Alex says. It also depends on the weather and the range. It would be good to have more precise rockets or guided ones.

But the Ukrainians are running short on even these unguided Soviet era rockets and ammo shortages a problem across the battlefield here in eastern Ukraine. Soldiers from the 80th Airborne Assault Brigade have a quick snack. Then get ready to fire their western-donated howitzer.

The American 105 millimeter shells, a valuable but increasingly scarce commodity.

PLEITGEN (on camera): Ukrainians call this the sniper rifle of their artillery because it's so accurate, but it also illustrates one of the big problems they have. They have plenty of barrels to fire from, but not enough ammunition to fire.

PLEITGEN (voice over): Battery Commander Myron telling me, the lack of shells means his forces are badly out-gunned here. It's hard to give precise numbers, he says, but I think they fire ten times for every round we fire. Sometimes it's 1 to 100.

The Russians are constantly taking aim at this area, though the Ukrainians say they're making gains, pushing Vladimir Putin's army back, even using combat helicopters close to the front line.

Kyiv says it needs more ammo to sustain its offensives both here in the east and in the south. The U.S. budget impasse could mean further delays. On top of that, NATO is warning its members are running dangerously low themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We started to give away from half full or lower, warehouses in Europe and, therefore, the bottom of the barrel is now visible.

PLEITGEN: For the Ukrainian artillery troops that means rationing will probably continue, all while trying to support their advancing soldiers on the ground.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Fred, thank you for that. It's such a -- so important for people to see that as this fight in Washington over funding is going on. I just wonder if the Ukrainians and leaders there are concerned that

if there is not more aid from the United States, is there a domino effect with other countries?

PLEITGEN: I think that that's one of the biggest concerns that the Ukrainians have. And, you know, you look at some of the things that have been happening in the past and - and especially European NATO countries giving weapons to Ukraine. A lot of those countries did that because they knew that the United States was doing that as well. And I think one of the main sort of examples of that is main battle tanks. The main battle tanks that have been given, for instance, by Germany and others, called the Leopard II, the Germans only allowed that to happen because the Biden administration also said that it was going to give main battle tanks, Abrams main battle tanks to the Ukrainians. And so all countries then in on that.

So, certainly the Ukrainians definitely extremely concerned that if that big security umbrella from the United States were to go away, if the United States were to stop giving weapons, or we considerably give fewer weapons, that other countries might become more reluctant as well.

[06:50:08]

It's a big concern that we hear from soldiers on the ground. It's also, of course, a big concern for people like Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who's in Spain right now, but also those immediate concerns as well, Poppy, with the Ukrainians on the ground telling us they need that flow of ammo to increase and to keep going. If it doesn't keep going, they say they might be able to defend the areas that they have right now, but certainly be very difficult for them to advance, Poppy.

HARLOW: Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for your reporting on the ground.

MATTINGLY: Well, the battle for the next House speaker, it is on. We're going to speak with one of the eight Republican lawmakers who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy.

HARLOW: Plus, the GOAT is back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At state.

Great work. Simone Biles delivers for Team USA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Pure gold. Perfection. Simone Biles becoming the most decorated American gymnast ever. We'll discuss her epic return with Olympic gold medal winning gymnast Dominique Dawes. She's here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot be thinking about what's at stake.

[06:55:04]

Great work. Simone Biles delivers for Team USA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Don't take it for granted, getting to witnessing greatness, like Simone Biles.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: That was ten years ago to the day. And in the same exact place, Simone Biles won her first gold medal on the world stage as she becoming the most decorated female gymnast ever. Biles led Team USA to a record seventh consecutive title at the World Championships in Belgium. The 26-year-old Biles continuing her impressive return to international competition two years after she pulled out of several events during the Tokyo Olympics in 2021 for mental health reasons. Now, Biles will look to increase her medal count this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMONE BILES MOST DECORATED FEMALE GYMNAST EVER: I mean I've been here for a very long time. So, it's crazy that I just keep going year after year. But I'm really proud of the fight the team put together out there, especially having a teammate go down. It's not easy, but you saw the strength and the courage of our team to keep going and pushing it out. So, for me, personal success, whatever, but it's all for the team this weekend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining us now is Dominique Dawes, a member of the 1996 Olympic gold medal winning gymnastics team, known as the Magnificent Seven.

It's great to have you with us. It's great to be talking about this because I think my concern when you talk about Simone Biles is that people are just used to it, right? We just expect it.

DOMINIQUE DAWES, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL GYMNAST: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Can you kind of put context around what we're seeing right now with her?

DAWES: It's pretty spectacular what this young woman is able to accomplish. She's a 26-year-old married woman. She's training right now for her third Olympic games and I was the last female gymnast to do that 23 years ago. And so what she's doing, I am in complete awe of. My kids are huge fans of Simone Biles. And what I love is that she's enjoying this journey. She's smiling along the way. She's an amazing teammate. And she's going to leave a lasting impact.

HARLOW: What will you be watching for this weekend? She has five more chances to medal.

DAWES: You know, I will just be watching her be an amazing leader. If you look at them on the floor, this world championship gold medal- winning team, it is the most diverse team that America has ever put out on the floor. There's three African American young women, an Asian woman and they are, together, they are bonding. They are friends. They are laughing. They are really enjoying this.

And there's a significant amount of pressure on them. I know, being an Olympian three different times, that you feel the weight of the world on your shoulders. You're representing your country. And you recognize that millions and billions of people are watching you.

However, they're smiling. They are -- they are laughing. They are enjoying every part of it. And that's what I love that Simone has changed that aspect of the sport.

MATTINGLY: Can I go back to something you said. You know, a third Olympics, training for a third Olympics. A normal person sees 26 and says that's a kid. And you're -- the world you're from, it's the exact opposite of that. And yet she's able to do it with joy.

DAWES: Oh, yes.

MATTINGLY: Piece that together? How does that work?

DAWES: When I was 19 there was an article that came out that said you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and they were questioning if I was capable of qualifying to my second Olympic games, and I was a teenager. So, at 26 years old, what she's doing today is spectacular.

However, for whatever reason, the age is a little skewed older. You have Shilese Jones, who's in college - or has already signed to go to college. It's amazing what they're capable of doing. And physically they're doing the best gymnastic that I've ever seen out there and they're 19 or in their mid-20s, which is exciting to see.

HARLOW: And this comeback for her, I think, makes it all the more extraordinary, does it not, the return even stronger if that is possible than she was before she stepped back for -- after she was experiencing the twisties, et cetera, coming back this way. It's remarkable, no?

DAWES: Yes. I think it's remarkable and I bet you she feels as if there's something to prove. That 2021 Olympic games in Tokyo was not what she had set out to do. However, she did experience a mental block. She experienced the twisties. She did what was best for her physically, as well as mentally and emotionally. She was a game- changer in that right because then more athletes felt comfortable speaking out about mental issues that they were dealing with on and off the court. So, she was able to make an impact in that regard.

But as an athlete, you kind of are a little remiss in wishing that you were able to make it fully through. And I know she's going to be able to do that in the 2024 Paris Olympic games. And I keep saying to my husband, I think this young lady can even think about qualifying to the -- her fourth Olympic games in 2028 in L.A. And how sweet would that be?

HARLOW: How sweet would that be?

MATTINGLY: I'm tired of thinking about that.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: The amount of training that goes into it.

DAWES: I know.

MATTINGLY: But it's extraordinary.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And it's a joy. And I feel like, as much as I was concerned with her mental health and how she was in 2021, I also felt a loss because we didn't get to watch greats. And we get to again. Something you know better than anybody else.

Dominique Dawes, we appreciate it. Thanks so much.

[07:00:01]

DAWES: Thank you so much for having me on.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: CNN THIS MORNING continues now.