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CNN This Morning

Trump Endorses Jordan for House Speaker; Trump Allegedly Shared Nuclear Submarine Secrets with Australian Billionaire; Biden Administration to Build Border Wall Stretch. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: So Kasie, LeBron going to be 39 years old this December, and he's the oldest player yet. Still one of the best. Just incredible.

[06:00:11]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Just amazing. It's crazy to be 39 and the oldest at anything.

Andy, last time we talked, you said young teams don't win the World Series. I'm going to the O's game this weekend. Good luck to your Astros, maybe? Maybe this year?

SCHOLES: Good luck to your O's, as well. Hey, here's hoping, Kasie, that we meet each other in the American League championship series. Let's hope for that.

HUNT: Love it. Love it. All right. Andy Scholes, thank you very much. Have a great weekend.

Thank you all for joining us. I am Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere, CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Poppy is off today. Erica Hill joins me. We have a lot of big news to get to. Let's get things started.

On a Friday, we should go ahead.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I think we should. Yes.

MATTINGLY: Let's go ahead.

HILL: Gets you closer to your weekend, Phil.

MATTINGLY: With "Five Things to Know" for this day.

Breaking overnight, Donald Trump not running for House speaker, but he is throwing his weight behind Congressman Jim Jordan. The big question: Will the endorsement push the Ohio representative closer to the vote threshold he needs?

HILL: And U.S. funding to Ukraine hangs in the balance of the speaker fight as Russia strikes again overnight.

Former President Trump reportedly revealing nuclear submarine secrets to this guy. That's an Australian billionaire who also happens to be a member of Mar-a-Lago.

MATTINGLY: And the Biden administration announcing it will begin deporting thousands of Venezuelans. It's another immigration about- face after the White House said it would build a border wall, while also saying walls don't work.

HILL: The September jobs report due out this morning. We are monitoring the impact of the nationwide strikes on those numbers. This as there are signs of possible progress in the autoworkers strike.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

MATTINGLY: Well, good morning, everyone. Happy Friday. We want to start with the breaking news from overnight. Former President Trump throwing his, quote, "complete and total support behind Jim Jordan," the Ohio Republican, to be the next speaker of the House.

He announced his big endorsement on social media just after midnight. Trump himself said he had been toying with the idea of serving as speaker temporarily, even though he's currently embroiled in a civil fraud trial and facing four different felony criminal cases.

Trump is even considering a trip to Capitol Hill in the coming days, but we're told now he's not expected to go.

HILL: So what comes next on the heels of this? On Monday, the House GOP conference is set to meet as they, of course, scramble to pick a new leader.

On Tuesday, they'll hear from candidates Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise in a closed-door forum. An internal election is expected Wednesday, and we could potentially see a House-wide vote for a new speaker that same day.

The timing, though, could slip here if the candidate, depending if the candidate can unify 217 Republicans.

MATTINGLY: And that is still a very open question. Whoever comes out on top will need to win over both moderates and hardline conservatives, who just ousted Kevin McCarthy. Jim Jordan tells CNN he's the one who can do it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you going to get them in line, if you were you to become the speaker?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I mean, there's -- I disagrees with, you know, what took place, but those guys are friends of mine. And, you know, I think that's -- that's the message I've been talking to my colleagues about, is who can bring the eight into the -- you know, part of the team? Who can unite our team? I think I can do that. If I didn't think I could do that, I wouldn't run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Let's bring in CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, the evolution of the former president on this endorsement was fascinating, given how he toyed with -- I think he liked public attention about being potentially the speaker all week. How did this actually come to be?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Phil and Erica, there's one thing that Donald Trump is, and that is the master of his own narrative. He likes the media attention. He likes the publicity. And he's also an agent of chaos.

I was told that when he gave an interview to FOX yesterday, where he essentially said that he wanted to go to Capitol Hill and that he'd be willing to serve as interim speaker, that many in his team didn't even know he was doing that.

So, again, a level of chaos here. And he doesn't even mention that he would have to actually be elected, which goes to show you the level of seriousness that he actually had.

We were told by members of his team that he was never really considering serving as interim speaker, but he's really getting out there.

And I was also told that some GOP lawmakers were starting to express concern about Trump's outward toying with this idea of serving as interim speaker, particularly that it might hurt Jim Jordan, who has been a close ally of Donald Trump's.

So late last night, Trump did come out and endorse Jordan, saying, "He is strong on crime, borders, our military, vets and Second Amendment. Jim, his wife, Polly and family are outstanding. He will be a great speaker of the House and has my complete and total endorsement."

But as you said, Phil, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see how that endorsement plays out, particularly with moderates on the Hill.

However, one thing that really complicates all of this, as you know, is the fact that he is leading by such a huge margin in the race, in the primary, to be the GOP nominee.

[06:05:09]

So that's going to complicate things for those moderates who possibly don't want to get behind Jim Jordan but also might not want to cost Donald Trump at this time.

HILL: Yes. A lot to consider there. Kristen, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN political analyst, Natasha Alfred. The host of "EARLY START," as well, Kasie Hunt, is with us. As we look at where everything stands this morning, this reporting overnight, once we got this endorsement overnight, it begs the question, Kasie, and we'll start with you. How much will this move the needle?

HUNT: I think it -- excuse me, Erica -- I think it moves the needle significantly, and here's why. There are -- there are a couple pieces here.

The first one being that Donald Trump has incredible sway among the House Republican conference. They listen very closely to what he says. He's got a lot of loyalists there. Much more so than the Senate, although, you know, there are more Trump loyalists there, now.

When he was president, you know, a single Trump tweet could send the House, you know, spinning out, basically, and that reality still exists. He has, frankly, done more on that score to lock down support among the House GOP conference.

So from this -- from this perspective, it says to me, it's going to be much harder for a Steve Scalise to get to 218 votes needed to be speaker, because a lot of those people are going to listen to Donald Trump and back Jim Jordan.

Now, the second piece of this is those moderates that Kristen was talking about. And they are a very critical block, but there's a key difference between the moderates and the hard-liners.

The moderates think governing is important, and their interests are not around a prolonged vacancy here with the speakership. They've not been as willing, because they care about governance, to blow up everything in order to get what they want.

And so I think it's much more likely that you see them work behind the scenes to figure how to work with this, than to openly revolt against it.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Natasha, Kasie hits at the key point. There are enough moderates or frontline Republicans to shift a dynamic in this race. To keep Jim Jordan from the requisite number she needs to keep anybody from those votes.

That's been the case over about a decade and a half in this Republican conference, and always, the moderates end up stepping back.

If you want to know how Republicans, writ large, for the most part, besides kind of the really diehard Trump folks, felt about all of the talk about Trump as speaker, I want to play something from Garret Graves, who's a top ally -- former ally of Speaker Kevin McCarthy, last night with our colleague, Kaitlan Collins. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CN ANCHOR: He's claiming tonight that he could actually take the job as has House speaker on a short-term basis. Do you believe that that can happen? REP. GARRETT GRAVES (R-LA): You know, look, there's a part of me that

just -- sitting down and buying tickets to watch the chaos would be -- would be incredibly entertaining to see what the Democrats just created.

But in a, I guess, more serious fashion, look, my focus is on restoring functionality and stability. My guess is, just based upon precedent, that the next speaker of the House is going to be a member of the House of Representatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: So for context, shortly thereafter, Trump endorsed. And the idea, which was never actually real, of him becoming speaker went away.

But I want to figure out a way to bottle and sell that sigh from Garret Graves, because I think that encapsulates what a lot of members feel but maybe don't want to say.

NATASHA ALFRED, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I love the deep sigh, the deep groan. But also, did you catch the little dig at Democrats? Right? Democrats caused this. A very convenient overlooking of the fact that this all came from the House Freedom Caucus and Matt Gaetz.

I think what's interesting about this is that, you know, we move on so quickly to who is about to fill this seat, but the majority of Republicans supported Kevin McCarthy. Right?

So this is really about a small minority having outsized power because they were able to manipulate the rules.

I feel that there are certain moderates who -- who don't want to be associated with Trump and Jim Jordan's close relationship with Trump, him, you know, leading the charge against [SIC] the Joe Biden impeachment. All of these things make him a divisive figure.

And so whether or not he should be the one to actually -- to govern and not sort of take that speaker seat and make it more of a circus, that is yet to be determined.

HILL: He's out there saying, Look, I'm the one who can bring everybody together. I can unite everyone, Kasie.

But it does beg this question of who else could break through? Right? Who could you get, Kasie, to break through that could actually move things to that lane of, Hey, let's do some governing here. Let's not just let a small group of very, very vocal folks run everything?

HUNT: Look, I'll just say, I think there is zero evidence to support the idea that House Republicans are not willing to go along with whatever Donald Trump wants.

[06:10:01]

It's just -- well, there's no evidence. We've seen over and over and over again, and we've talked so many times over -- obviously, Biden's been president for a couple years now, but this conversation has somehow continued about, well, aren't Republicans going to break with Trump?

You know, he's been indicted again, been indicted again. Aren't they going to break with Trump? And the answer is continually always, "no."

And these House Republicans, you know, the majority of them answer to districts, to constituents in districts who are the ones that are sticking with Donald Trump in these polls.

And I just think that that's the reality that you're going to see manifested here. And I think, in terms of the speaker's race and your specific question, Erica, I just don't see -- someone has to get to 218 votes.

And with Trump endorsing Jim Jordan, it's going to be a lot harder to convince people not to back Jim Jordan over the objections of Donald Trump, especially because the votes in conference, right, are private. First they have to go inside themselves. They take their own vote behind closed doors, but it's a secret ballot.

And that will pick who the conference officially wants. Then this one has to be public on the floor. So anybody that votes against Jim Jordan is now officially crossing Donald Trump, which we know that most of these members are just terrified of doing.

MATTINGLY: It's a great point, and almost certainly, the reality with the usual caveat that, hey, there are enough members to do something different if they want to. They've not proven willing to do that for the better part of the last seven years.

Last question before we go. Taking a step back. The House being paralyzed like this, the Republican conference being where it is. A government funding deadline hanging in the balance, Ukraine aid hanging in the balance. What do you think this says about the direction of things in politics right now?

ALFRED: I mean, I think that, as the American people watch this, there's this sense of being overwhelmed by the paralysis. Right?

And it gets to a point where you wonder whether it's -- you can just sort of blame one party.

I think there's this sense of apathy, because people feel like, you tell us to go out to the polls. You tell us to show up in numbers, and then you tell us about what you can't get done. Whether you're talking about the executive branch or you're talking about the legislative branch.

And so as we look at election 2024, I hope that politicians from both sides take nothing for granted, because there are a lot of people who feel like just staying home at this point as they look at the chaos that's playing out on Capitol Hill.

MATTINGLY: Yes. And you see that in the polling, regardless of who they support. That there's just, like, a general malaise right now.

Natasha and Kasie, thanks guys. Appreciate it, as always.

HUNT: Thanks, guys.

MATTINGLY: A new report says that former President Trump allegedly shared sensitive information with an Australian billionaire. What the special counsel has learned.

HILL: And this just in: Iranian peace activist Narges Mohammadi has been named the recipient of the 2023 Novel Peace Prize. Her name has become synonymous with the fight for human rights in Iran. And it's important to note, she's currently in prison. Has been arrested 13 times now for tireless efforts on women's rights, opposition to the death penalty, and solitary confinement, something she herself has endured for weeks at a time. We'll have more of her story, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:36]

HILL: New reporting about Donald Trump's alleged mishandling of classified information. ABC News is now reporting that, months after leaving the White House, Trump allegedly shared sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarine with an Australian billionaire named Anthony Pratt.

This happened at Mar-a-Lago in April of 2021.

Now, according to the reporting, an excited Trump, leaning toward Pratt as if to be discreet, told Pratt the supposed exact number of nuclear warheads U.S. submarines routinely carry and exactly how close they supposedly can get to a Russian submarine without being detected.

Well, Pratt later described Trump's remarks to six journalists, 11 employees, 10 Australian officials, and three former Australian prime ministers.

MATTINGLY: CNN has confirmed the federal investigators have interviewed Pratt as part of the special counsel's classified documents probe.

Pratt is also reportedly on a list of potential witness who may testify at a trial.

A spokesperson for Trump issued this statement in response: "These illegal leaks are coming from sources which totally lack proper context and relevant information. President Trump did nothing wrong, has always insisted on truth and transparency, and acted in a proper manner according to the law."

So who is this guy that Trump allegedly is spilling classified information to? Anthony Pratt's ties to the former president go back years. Trump even attended the opening of one of Platt's plants in Ohio and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people don't tell you about Anthony, but I'll tell you about Anthony. He is the most successful man in Australia. He's a great man, and he's my friend, and I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers joins us now.

I actually want to start with the Trump team response. There's not an outright denial; there's not anybody saying this is a lie. They're just saying it lacks context. What does that mean?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they're also saying these are illegal leaks. Right? That tends to be what they do. Just focus on the leaks. It means that they're not really ready to respond yet. They want to see, I think, how prosecutors are going to try to use this information before they worry too much about it, because I doubt that they'll try to charge this as a separate spillage of classified or national security information.

MATTINGLY: Why not?

RODGERS: It's very hard to charge a verbal spillage. You know, there's just not the same proof around it than if you have documents and you can establish for sure what information was shared.

So I think it's more likely, especially late in the day with the trial approaching also, to try to use it instead as what's called other bad act evidence. You can put it in, but it's not to prove a separate crime. It's to prove a pattern of behavior.

HILL: And based on what we know about this and this reporting, how effective would it be?

RODGERS: Well, you know, listen, it's part of the pile. Right? I mean, they're trying to establish what he did with all of the national security information that we saw, you know, at Mar-a-Lago.

This is another episode of Trump being cavalier about information that's important to national security. So they use it as part of a pattern of behavior, a lack of mistake in keeping that sort of information the way he did.

MATTINGLY: On another case, another indictment, on the election interference case, Trump's lawyers are trying to get the case dismissed on the grounds of immunity, because he was president. Does that have any legal bearing or validity?

RODGERS: You know, this is a tough one, actually, because some of the questions are undecided. Like, whether presidential immunity even applies to criminal prosecution, as opposed to a civil action.

So anytime you have a litigation issue that's never been decided before, you have some possibility there. I don't think he'll win at the trial court level. The question is, if

he takes an appeal before the trial, it goes up to the circuit. It goes up to the Supreme Court, potentially. These issues, it could take time. In other words, it could push back the trial date. That's kind of the most immediate concern.

[06:20:10]

Independent of finding, obviously, wide-ranging implications?

RODGERS: It could. I mean, it's most relevant to this case, because he's alleging that the acts that he took were within his job as president. It's harder to do that with the other criminal cases.

But this is also the one looks that most likely to go to trial before the election. So if this one gets kicked, he may not get any of these trials in before the election next year.

MATTINGLY: Jennifer Rodgers, thank you. Appreciate it.

RODGERS: Thanks.

HILL: New overnight, in a major policy shift, the Biden administration says it will restart deporting Venezuelans back to their country. This is part of an effort to curb a record influx of crossings at the Southern border. We have more on this with new CNN reporting just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: President Biden has moved to explain why his administration is moving to build more barriers at the U.S.-Mexico border after campaigning explicitly against it. Now, he says he still believes that a wall won't work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Border wall money was appropriated for the border wall. I tried to get them to reappropriate it, to redirect that money. They didn't. They wouldn't.

And meantime, there's nothing under the law than they have to use the money for what it was appropriated for. I can't stop that.

[06:25:09]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe the border wall works?

BIDEN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Top U.S. officials are in Mexico today for annual security talks as Mexico's president says the U.S. is, quote, "acting irresponsibly" for building new portions of the wall. Meanwhile, in a major policy shift, the Biden administration said

yesterday it will start directly deporting Venezuelans back to Venezuela, in an effort to curb the record influx of Southern border crossings.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live for us at the White House with more.

The decision here -- and it's not just a singular decision. It's not happening in a vacuum.

But the approach right now on immigration on the migration surge, Jeremy, what's driving it? Take us behind the scenes here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, Phil, there's no question that there is a political backdrop, as well as a reality at the border.

We have watched as, over the last month, the highest number of migrant encounters at the Southern border this year. And at the same time, complaints not only from Republican lawmakers but also pressure from big-city Democratic mayors about what is happening in their cities, an influx of migrants that they say these simply cannot handle.

And so yesterday, the day began with the homeland security secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, waiving more than two dozen different laws in order to begin construction on this new section of border wall.

The day ended with that very same homeland security secretary, insisting that the Biden administration's policy, as it relates to the border wall, simply has not changed.

In between that, you had the president of the United States seeming to contradict that statement from his homeland security secretary, saying that he doesn't believe a border wall is effective.

And you had the White House press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, in the middle of all of it, struggling to try and explain this contradiction between a president saying that the border wall is ineffective; that very same president and his administration moving forward with that construction.

Instead, what she simply said was that this administration doesn't believe it is an effective use of funds. And effectively, that their hand was forced by this 2019 appropriations bill that had to be used, funding of which, had to be used by the end of this year.

And at the same time, you have this decision on Venezuelan migrants just weeks after extending temporary protected status to nearly half a million Venezuelan migrants. The administration beginning to resume those flights of -- direct deportation flights from the United States to Venezuela.

MATTINGLY: Jeremy, immigration obviously a very top-of-mind issue right now. Always a top-of-mind issue for the people in the building behind you is the economy. It's jobs day. We know the president always speaks on jobs day. Is there a concern right now inside the White House that their pitch

just simply isn't resonating?

DIAMOND: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's been several months now since the administration launched this Bidenomics messaging push to try and turn around those -- the perception of the economic numbers.

We've seen pretty good economic numbers, although some slowdown in job creation in the last couple of months. But the administration believes they are heading into a good place as it relates to the economy itself.

What is not hitting is how those numbers are resonating with the American public. Poll after poll shows that there is still a disconnect between the actual state of the economy and how voters actually view that very same economy.

Today, we're expected to hear the president address some of this, talking about an unprecedented turnaround in America's manufacturing leadership, according to the White House; and talking about our strong jobs market, thanks to Bidenomics.

So they're not abandoning that slogan altogether yet, Phil. Wait and see, perhaps from the White House to see if they can actually get that to hit with the public.

MATTINGLY: All right. Jeremy Diamond, live for us on the North Lawn. Thanks, bud.

HILL: Hillary Clinton sitting down for an exclusive interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. Her thoughts on a potential Speaker Jim Jordan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't know him well. I watched him, and you know, stared at him for 11 hours while he made stuff up about me. So I don't know him, but I've seen him in action.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: So what will it mean if he gets the speakership?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)