Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Rep. Jim Himes is Interviewed about Israel-Hamas War; Barbara Zind is Interviewed about Being in Israel; Avi Issacharoff is Interviewed about Israel. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 10, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:10]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: As we continue to follow the breaking news out of Israel and Gaza, we are getting reports of new air raid sirens in Tel Aviv. Our CNN team in Tel Aviv has been asked and has moved to a shelter. We will keep you updated in this very fast-moving and fluid situation as the morning continues to move on. As we reported, there are air raid sirens now in Tel Aviv.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Later today, President Biden will deliver remarks to the American people. That will happen about 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time on the evolving war between Israel and Hamas. We are told he will be delivering those remarks from the White House again at 1:00 Eastern.

This comes as we're learning that the administration and congressional Democrats are now considering tying Ukraine aid to an aid package for Israel, which is something many House Republicans have cautioned against.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman of Connecticut, Jim Himes. He's also the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for being with us.

There are some Republicans who like this idea. We just - we heard from Mike McCaul, the foreign affairs chairman, yesterday, saying he thinks a good package would be tying together Ukraine funding, he said maybe Taiwan funding, border funding, with Israel funding. Do you believe that there are the votes there at least to tie more aid for Israel to more aid for Ukraine?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Yes, Poppy, that's a hard question to answer because my workplace, the House of Representatives, of course right now is leaderless. We have no speaker. The question you're asking is fundamentally a question for the Republican conference. You know, as the Democratic Party, which is just under 50 percent of the House, demonstrated in the last couple of weeks, we are almost uniform in our support for both Ukraine and for assistance to Israel. Not totally uniformed, but almost uniformed. And, of course, that -- what you're describing there is the fact that about half the Republicans have voted against Ukrainian aid. So, McCaul is, obviously, he supports both.

HARLOW: Yes.

HIMES: And he's making the point that that may be the easiest way to get it done. But, again, you know, no speaker. It's very hard to say how anything's going to move forward.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, and we'll see what happens this week. Tim Burchett told, you know, Phil, he thinks you're going to have a speaker come Wednesday. But Max Miller, Republican congressman, is calling for an extra week - an extra week to try to figure this out.

You're on the Intel Committee. You've been on it for ten years. Do you believe we have an extra week at a moment like this?

HIMES: No. I mean, you know, we're - we're demonstrating to the world exactly what Putin would have us, or President Xi of China would have us demonstrate to the world, which is that democracy is dysfunctional. And, by the way, it's not just the House of Representatives. It's Tommy Tuberville, who, at a moment of global peril, is preventing hundreds of military promotions from going through the Senate. And the list goes on.

Look, I'm - I'm very comfortable that we are, in the very near term anyway, going to be able to support Israel in the way that any sense of moral reasoning demands.

[08:35:05]

The White House is very, very focused now on replenishing air defense munitions. That sort of thing. This is what Israel's going through very, very rapidly as missiles continue to come into the country. So, you know, we're going to be able to do our job well for about a week or two. But, remember, you know, not only do we not have a speaker, we don't have an ambassador of Israel. We don't have a full Joint Chiefs in the Pentagon. And really it's a moment to get our act together.

HARLOW: I believe next Wednesday is when there will be a Senate confirmation hearing for Jack Lew, to your point, about not having a confirmed ambassador to Israel in this moment.

You said this to "Politico," Congressman, quote, "that something of this size," meaning the Hamas attack, "could be pulled off is not done without a lot of observable signals." That word, what observable signals do you think there should have been that were missed by so many?

HIMES: Well, I could go on at length, right? This kind of plan doesn't get done without phone calls, without -- without, you know, people communicating by radio. It doesn't happen without observable things from satellites. It doesn't happen without people talking to each other, which is the reason that human intelligence exists. Again, if this was a lone wolf, you know, an individual with an AK-47, you can hide that. You can't hide what we are very sadly seeing happening in the state of Israel right now. So, it does raises - and I'm not ready to make any conclusions yet because I don't have a lot of facts, but, boy, does it raise profound questions about what our intelligence communities exist for if not to find signs of this kind of brutality and attack.

HARLOW: The White House has called Iran complicit in this. It has not gone as far, nor has Israel, to directly tie Iran to this attack. But "The Wall Street Journal" has an op-ed by Mitch McConnell calling for new punishments for Iran. Let me read you this. I want to know if you agree with what he's calling for, to, quote - for the U.S. to, quote, "deny Iranian planes overflight rights, impounding the ship vessels Iran uses to circumvent sanctions, close Iranian banks with access to the west, cease the Iranian operations of European businesses." He writes, "treat Iranian officials like pariahs and sink Iranian naval boats that threaten international shipping."

Do you agree with what he's recommending?

HIMES: Well, you know, two points.

Number one, we're having this debate about exactly how involved Iran was. And, of course, we won't know for sure.

What we do know, of course, is that after years and years and years of Iran providing money, weaponry, support, training to Hamas and to Hezbollah, of course they were involved. The question is, how specifically were they involved in the planning and consent for this particular raid.

More broadly, yes, and as I hear Mitch McConnell's list of sanctions, of course. Of course. I mean, and this is not just the only place where Iran is committing brutal crimes. They are arming the Russians to kill civilians in Ukraine. They are taking hostages as a way of sort of, you know, achieving their global strategic aim. So, you know, Iran -- and the hard part here, of course, is that Iran has been subject to sanctions for a very, very long time.

You know, at some point the Iranian people are going to ask themselves whether their regime, supporting Russia, supporting Hamas, supporting Hezbollah, supporting destabilization in the region really reflects their values. And we can put all the sanctions we want on the regime, and we should. But at some point the Iranian people are going to need to take the decision that they no longer want to be represented by a murderous band of theological thugs.

HARLOW: Hostages. You were involved in getting the American hostages, five of them, held in Iran released just several weeks ago, one of them, obviously, was one of your constituents. It is believed by the administration that Americans are, quote, likely among those being held hostage by Hamas. Would you encourage the Biden administration to use potentially special forces or any other military action if needed in conjunction with Israel to bring Americans home if indeed they are being held?

HIMES: You know, look, the subject of hostages, of course, is complicated and controversial. And, you know, sadly, one of the bits of misinformation being taken advantage of by people with no moral scruples is this notion that somehow this deal for the five Americans, that the money there was used for this attack, which is just appallingly wrong and awful.

But the answer to your question is, you know, you would really like to get hostages back alive. And that suggests that the first thing you do is locate them and make it very clear that they need to be returned. Yes, negotiate, but, you know -- and no one is better at this than the Israelis. You know, look up the raid on Entebbe, you know, when the Israelis freed their hostages in the continent of Africa many, many decades ago. We do need to abide by the value that we will get these people home. And that's going to be enormously challenging.

HARLOW: Whatever it takes?

HIMES: Yes.

[08:40:00]

Yes. Whatever it takes.

HARLOW: OK. OK.

HIMES: And, again, that's hard to say until you are the friend or family member of one of these hostages.

HARLOW: Look, we were just joined by parents whose, you know, son, 23- year-old, born here in America, is - is missing. They believe held hostage.

Congressman Jim Himes, thank you for your time this morning.

HIMES: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Of course.

MATTINGLY: Well, Israel now pounding Gaza with another wave of airstrikes. We're going to speak to an American doctor who is in Gaza City on a medical mission to treat children when Hamas launched its attack on Israel. Now she's stuck in Gaza City and trying to get out.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We do have a very sad, new death toll to report. The Israelis embassy now telling the United States that more than 1,000 people have been killed in Israel since Hamas attacked on Saturday. And happening right now, air raid sirens sounding all around Israel. Moments ago our colleague Jeremy Diamond just had to take cover in Ashdod as Iron Dome - as the Iron Dome intercepted rockets just above him.

Watch this.

[08:45:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in Ashdod. We just heard the sirens going off, indicating that rocket fire is coming in from Gaza. We have yet to hear those Iron Dome interceptions yet, but they should be coming momentarily. That is typically the cadence that you here in these types of situations. We're just going to pause for a moment. Here it is.

And you can hear, that was the Iron Dome intercepting. You can see some of the smoke there left from those Iron Dome intercepts up in the air above Ashdod.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Well, those rocket attacks continue towards Israel. This morning Israel is launching more airstrikes on Gaza in response to those Hamas attacks. The densely populated area is getting pounded despite threats from Hamas to execute Israeli hostages. Israel says their fighter jets have struck more than 200 targets and there are growing signs that a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip could be coming soon. Israeli troops and tanks have been amassing near the border.

Dr. Barbara Zind is an American pediatrician, was on a week-long mission to treat children in Gaza and is now trapped there. She spoke to our Wolf Blitzer last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BARBARA ZIND, AMERICAN DOCTOR IN GAZA: Whenever you go to Gaza, you always know that there is - there is danger of some violence while you're there. But, no, I wasn't - oh, sorry -- prepared for this.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let us know if you need to go into some sort of bomb shelter or whatever because I can hear those explosions going off right near you.

ZIND: There are no bomb shelters here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Dr. Barbara Zind joins us now from Gaza City.

I was watching that last night. Just to -- how are things right now? What is the status on the ground there?

DR. BARBARA ZIND, AMERICAN DOCTOR IN GAZA: Well, as far as in our area, near our hotel, last night there was a lot of -- seemed like action that was in close proximity. As I think in that interview, the windows were shaking during some of those bombs. But a little bit quieter today. Still things going on. And I think things that we can hear more distant, maybe not quite - quite as close as last night.

HARLOW: Doctor, in your conversation with Wolf, you talked about your efforts to leave and your communication with, you know, U.S. officials. But have you had any updates since then? I know you've been look at the possibility of a one-hour drive to the southern border with Egypt. ZIND: Right. So that's where Israel says people should evacuate is

through Egypt, though Israel is -- had some explosions near the Rafah exit. Several -- yesterday and today, and it's been closed. Hopefully just temporarily. So -- and there hasn't been a safe quarter to find.

So, we are still proceeding. I think we're -- we still have arrangements made to get from Rafah to Cairo. And they're working on getting us an Egyptian visa still. And we're looking at some transport from Gaza City to Rafah, but that's still a question mark and how long and whether the Rafah border will be open.

I know the U.N. wants to keep it open to allow some humanitarian aid to come into Gaza, but that's always a question, right?

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Can you talk about what it's -- you know, what was striking last night is, when you said there are no bomb shelters to go to. The situation on the ground, you know, why you're there in the first place and what this means and what it could mean given what's expected in the days or weeks ahead for the civilian population there.

ZIND: Right. I mean, I think I -- people ask, am I scared? But I -- you know, I am an American citizen and I think I'll get out and we're working on that. If you live in Gaza, there really is no alternative than to stay. I think many families are encouraged to go to U.N. schools. Those are not bomb shelters. But -- and they have been hit in the past, in past wars.

So really I just think I would be so terrified to be here with my family without being able to leave and really with so few alternatives, no electricity, no water. I mean they're really -- it's just awful for people who live here.

HARLOW: The work you do is with the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you why you went in the first place. Who are you trying to help and why?

ZIND: Right. So, I've been volunteering with them since 2010. And I see mostly children with chronic diseases, people that children donate to sponsor for. And I review their medications, PCRF, Palestinian Children's Relief Fund helps kind of fill in the gap between medications and treatments that children can get through the - through the U.N. and through the ministry of health, medications and things.

[08:50:04]

So - so it helps fill in the gap. Especially in Gaza many times there are shortages of medications. So, people have to buy them. And I'm talking about insulin for diabetics and, you know, medications that are really life-threatening in children don't get them. And so - and so I just help make sure that what we're doing with money people are donating goes to the right things and just helps provide as good of health care for those children as we can.

MATTINGLY: Well, it's important work. Dr. Barbara Zind, we appreciate your time. Also, please, keep us updated on your well-being as you work to leave over the course of the coming days or weeks.

ZIND: OK, thank you.

MATTINGLY: Also this morning, there were 200 strikes pounding Gaza as Israeli troops and tanks are amassing at the border. CNN is live on the ground with more.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Well, in just minutes we're expecting to hear from the families of some Americans who are reportedly being held hostage in Gaza. They're going to hold a press conference in Tel Aviv, even as air sirens are currently going off. Hamas is threatening to broadcast the execution of hostages if Israel targets people in Gaza without warning.

Our next guest is Avi Issacharoff. He's the co-creator of the Netflix show "Fauda." He's also a Middle East analyst.

Avi, welcome.

I want to start with -- we'll get to the show in a moment, especially some of the considerations for a plot line that were pushed aside because you didn't think they would be believable. But to start with, given your work as an analyst and as a journalist, what's your sense of the state of things right now as you sit in Tel Aviv?

AVI ISSACHAROFF, CO-CREATOR/CO-PRODUCER, "FAUDA" ON NETFLIX: Well, it's not a big secret that it looks - it looks pretty bad. I mean for both sides, by the way. I mean after the first attack of the - of Hamas on Israeli civilians, killing more than 900 people, abducting, kidnappings more than 150.

[08:55:05]

So, we know that there's going to be a very hard retaliation. We know that it's not going to be the classical one of just incursion and that's it. We're probably going to face weeks - days and probably weeks of just continuously air strikes, artillery attacks on Gaza, and then probably we'll see some military operation. That's going to close the lives of many people that are living in Gaza. And many of them will be incident civilians. But the way that Hamas took control over Gaza in 2007, and the way that Hamas is now, managing a war, a complete, big war against the state of Israel, there is no other way for the state of Israel except for declaring war in Hamas and beating Hamas.

HARLOW: Avi, as I understand it, during your work as a journalist, you met with Hamas leaders more than once, many times. I wonder if you, even you, having that expertise and background, were stunned by the sophistication and the scale of the attack, and what that indicates to you about their ability going forward?

ISSACHAROFF: I think that, you know, what misled me, at least as an analyst, but also the Israeli intelligence, was a conception. The problem that, you know, we had a wrong conception of Hamas as an organization that, you know, maybe we can deal with them, maybe we can do some business with them. Maybe if we allow some economic prosperity in Gaza, like allowing 19,000 people to get out every day from Gaza to Israel, that would make Hamas more moderate and, in a way, nice. So, we were wrong.

It's not that Hamas deceived us. It's not that they lied. They said in every possible interview that I had with them, every possible meeting, they will never be peace with Israel. Our target is to eliminate the state of Israel. Simple as that. They said it clear in our face. We just didn't want to believe that. We saw that they are just making all those slogans in order to become more popular in the political side, in the Palestinian political arena. But at the end of the day, that is their mission. That is their ideology. And we're dealing now with ISIS. Guys, we are dealing with ISIS in Gaza, and we know the way to treat ISIS is just one way, and I'm really just sorry to say that.

MATTINGLY: And that was the way Prime Minister Netanyahu referred to Hamas as well.

I do want to ask you, before we let you go, we've heard that there was some consideration in the show to have an attack like was seen over the course of the weekend, a full-scale attack from several different -- from air, from land, from sea, but it was deemed too unrealistic and you guys cast it aside. Is that accurate?

ISSACHAROFF: It is. It is. We are just now developing the fifth season. And one of the scenarios that we were discussing was maybe some kind of an incursion of tens or maybe even hundreds of militants from a terrorist organization and taking over an Israeli town or a village. But after like five, 10 minutes we thought that we should give it up because it doesn't - it didn't seem realistic enough. So, we gave it up.

Now we understand that our imagination wasn't that far. Didn't get to the - to the reality that we are facing today. I must say that I came now from Gaza's border. You can still see the remainings of so many burned cars. Burned motor bikes. All Hamas. The ones that got into the Israeli territory. It's just terrible. What happened in - on Saturday was a real atrocity.

HARLOW: Avi Issacharoff, thank you very much for your expertise, for being with us today.

ISSACHAROFF: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: And thanks to all of you for joining us. We will be right back here tomorrow morning. Stay with CNN. "NEWS CENTRAL" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:00]