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CNN This Morning

Interview with IDF Spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner; Israel Steps Up Gaza Offensive; Gaza Morgues Overwhelmed; Horror of Hamas' Attack on Border Communities Emerges; Guy Danon Recounts Terror at Music Festival; Interview with Music Festival Attack Survivor Guy Danon; House GOP Holds Internal Election for Speaker; GOP Remains Divided Over Choice for Speaker; Interview with Representative Steve Womack (R-AR). Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 11, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:00]

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, IDF SPOKESMAN: And this is our message, the people who are responsible for Gaza -- for the people of Gaza are Hamas. The people of Gaza need to ask Hamas why did they conduct the strategic attack against the people of Southern Israel, butchering them in their houses, in their homes, in their bedrooms.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And Colonel, to that point, there are also Israeli citizens now being held in Gaza. There are Americans held hostage. I want your reaction to a woman that just joined us on the program. Sharone Lifschitz, both of her parents in their 80's have been taken hostage, and this is her plea to IDF forces. Listen.

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SHARONE LIFSCHITZ, PARENTS TAKEN HOSTAGE BY HAMAS: They need to confirm that they will protect these people. That they will not just go after and fight after and not protect. We are in Gaza now. My parents are in Gaza. My friends' children are in Gaza. This is a desperate moment.

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HARLOW: Do you have a response to her? She is pleaing for -- in some way. them and all of those held to be protected as the IDF response to Hamas.

LERNER: Well, this is just heartbreaking and you cannot, as a human being, not identify with her and with her grief and concerns. And we are doing our best in order to bring them home. And I would say that it is Hamas that need to listen very, very carefully because if they want to come out in any way or form of this conflict alive, they need to release those people immediately. They are responsible for their well-being. Now, we want them home.

You know, the images, the concerns, the families, the distress that we are hearing, it is at the heart of this conflict with Hamas. They chose strategically as a strategy to cross over into communities, kill people, and abduct people. 1,200 people killed, murdered, butchered, and tens of others taken into Gaza, for what reason?

There is this terrorist organization as an abomination. They need to be removed from control. They cannot be permitted to have this leeway over anybody. And it's also from a normative perspective. We have to send a message together around the world that this is unacceptable.

HARLOW: Colonel --

LERNER: The -- our force -- the military force is determined to make sure that this can never happen to us again.

HARLOW: And the crucial question that Sharone and others are asking is if it is not known where all these hostages are being held. How can their safety be ensured with these responding strikes? But final question on any route for escape for civilians, really, a powerful interview our colleague, Jake Tapper, did yesterday with a Palestinian American held who is -- was is stuck in Gaza, her name is Haneed Okal. This is what she told Jake. Listen.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Is there anywhere for you to go to escape this barrage of missiles?

HANEED OKAL, PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN STUCK IN GAZA: No. No, we tried everywhere. They say, go to the shore and then they bomb the shore next day. They say, go to the north and then they bomb the north areas next day. Like everywhere, they're bombing everywhere. So, no place is safe here in Gaza Strip.

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HARLOW: There have been major questions about Rafah and the crossing in the south into Egypt. Is there any place for Haneen and others in her position to escape at this point?

LERNER: They need to be very cautious. And I would, again, these heartbreaking stories coming out from within the Gaza Strip. And when we look at it, we need to understand that Hamas has chosen this battleground. They have embedded themselves. You cannot expect Israel not to protect its civilians because Hamas is hiding behind theirs. You know, we need to take that into consideration. And as I said, our targets are Hamas, and they are jeopardizing the people of Gaza.

I hope that she asked Hamas, and I hope that your -- the reporter here, also asked her what does she expect from Hamas as the ruling government of Gaza? How do they protect? They cannot expect to attack Israel and Israel to sit on its hands. This is a situation which is unbearable. The ramifications of this strategic attack against Israel is a game changer, and we need to change the rules of this game. It cannot be perceived as a game where lives of Israelis are up -- are a free on sale product. No, we will not permit that. We take the fight to Hamas, and Hamas must pay dearly for this atrocity. HARLOW: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner of the IDF, I appreciate you joining us very much from Tel Aviv. Thank you.

LERNER: Thank you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we are learning more details about the scope of the brutality of Hamas' attack on Israel. We're going to be live on the ground, next.

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[07:35:00]

MATTINGLY: The death toll in Israel continues to rise as more bodies are discovered from Saturday's attack. The horrifying details of the brutality are now coming into sharp focus. And it's important to see these images, to make sure we keep everything in perspective. We are learning more about the attacks on these four areas, Be'eri, Re'im, Kfar Aza, and Sderot.

We want to warn you that what we are about to show you is quite graphic. The assault on Be'eri started at the gate of the Kibbutz. This video you're watching right now is showing armed men removing bodies from an ambushed car. More than a hundred bodies were found and other civilians were taken hostage after assailants went door to door, trying to break into their homes.

HARLOW: This attack happened around the same time that Hamas attacked the Nova Music Festival that was just outside Re'im. Hundreds of Hamas gunmen broke through the border and shot and killed innocent people at point blank range. Then they stole anything they could from the victims and their cars. Israeli officials found at least 260 people killed there.

In the village of Kfar Aza, Hamas militants carried out a massacre. You'll remember that's where our Nic Robertson joined us yesterday morning with that live report.

[07:40:00]

The IDF says that women, children, toddlers, the elderly were brutally butchered in an ISIS way of action. Houses are ransacked and set ablaze. Soldiers and rescue workers said possibly hundreds of people there were killed. Some estimates have the death toll in Kfar Aza at more than 100.

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KEREN FLASH, SURVIVOR OF HAMAS ATTACK ON KIBBUTZ: Absolute pure hell that broke loose and destroyed everything that we know. We're still processing it. It's going to be a while. Very light. It's -- there's no going back from this. How can we go back to live in that beautiful place when we know what happened there?

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: She is a survivor who witnessed all of that in the City of Sderot about a mile from the Gaza border. People were shot in their cars and on their feet just waiting at a bus stop. At least 20 civilians were killed, as well as about a dozen soldiers, firefighters, and police officers.

Well, joining us this morning, CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, thank you for being with us, and this is what we're hearing over and over. We hear it from Prime Minister Netanyahu, and we hear it repeatedly from the IDF. So many comparisons to ISIS in the way that these innocent civilians have been murdered.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I mean, indeed. This is mass murder, isn't it? It's the massacres. It's beheadings, as we're told by the IDF, it's women, it's men, it's children not only have been killed in those dreadful images that you're showing are in the villages in Kibbutz's, but also including those who've been taken into Gaza and are now hostages, including old people who, as you heard from Lieutenant Colonel Lerner, one woman taken across in a wheelchair across there.

But here's the thing -- and here's the thing, what Hamas has done has completely blown, for a moment, the myth of Israel's military dominance and its intelligence dominance and its security dominance that everybody in the country and in the region has accepted as a truth over the last, you know, many, many decades, which is why you're hearing from all the Israeli spokespeople, from the ministers, from everybody that what we have to do is now a game changer.

This is a game changer. We have to change the rules of the game, you just heard Lieutenant Colonel Lerner say that. It's the message from every single Israeli official that this is the objective now, to re- establish conventional deterrence because this is a complete and utter, you know, exposure of -- for this instance, on Saturday, a massive failure, as we've been told by many of the Israeli officials as well, which they will look into later.

But, at the moment, they have to go in, they say, to re-establish deterrence. And to that end, we have heard the defense minister himself, Yoav Galant, and I'll read it, say that they have taken all restraints off Israeli soldiers. So, what does that mean? You are seeing what's happening in Gaza. You hear them say that they are abiding by the laws of war, that they're trying to protect civilians.

They are correct that civilians are unfortunately embedded in the entire densely populated City of Gaza and in many, many other areas around the actual central city, Gaza City, in refugee camps, in all sorts of places. We have been speaking to Gaza residents on our program who, you know, know precisely, you know, how different this is to any of the other encounters between Israel and Hamas.

And they are clearly the civilians in a desperate situation to this -- to the question of what would they say to Hamas for bringing this down on their heads? I tried to ask my interlocutor, a doctor, and basically, you know, the line went dead. There's been a siege imposed by the Israeli defense minister. And even President Biden, who stands full square with Israel, is trying to say to the Israeli Prime Minister that our democracies are only strong, and we can only avenge our dead if we abide by the rules of war. We're in uncharted territory right now.

MATTINGLY: Christiane, over the course of the last couple of days, you're reporting and talking to former top Israeli officials, current as well, has been fascinating to get their take on things. You spoke, I believe, to former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. What did he say?

AMANPOUR: So, Ehud Barak, first of all, has held just about every single political and military position and post in Israel's history. He is a fighter. He is a general. He was head of the general staff. He was defense minister, foreign minister, prime minister. He's been in negotiations with the Palestinians. He literally knows every nook and cranny of the history of Israel.

And he obviously, like many, are shocked and stunned at the complete failure of intelligence and military on that Saturday.

[07:45:00]

And knows that there will have to be a major investigation, like many have told me, many current Israeli officials have told me. But that has to wait, he said, until, until Israel reimposes and re-establishes its deterrence. He's very concerned about the moment of rage versus anger, and the ability to actually prosecute a war with a cool head. He's very worried as well, he says, about what he calls a current weak government in every aspect. Listen to what he said.

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EHUD BARA, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The upper echelon of our command, the inner cabinet within the government, it is now relatively weak. We have there the Minister of Defense, another minister who was secretary -- or was head of the Secret Service, and Netanyahu himself. That's a weak combination, a weak team to lead such a crisis. Some more serious people, more heavyweights should be brought into the cabinet in order to lead the crisis calmly and with cool headed. And I always request in strategic issues, especially boiling blood is not a good recipe for successful strategic decisions.

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AMANPOUR: And of course, I asked him about the issue of the hostages, and we have all been hearing these dramatic and terrifying and heartbreaking stories from families, whether they're American or other nationalities, and Israelis, who have lost their loved ones inside Gaza now. And they're very concerned about the effect of a war on the survivability of the hostages. They're worried that videos will start being posted of the hostages begging for their lives.

I asked Barak about that. And I said, why do you think Hamas did this at this point? He said, one of the strategic aims of Hamas is to get, listen to this, 10, 000 of their prisoners out of Israeli jails. So, this is another of the massively complicating and human dramas and disasters that is, you know, affecting the military, the politicians, and obviously the families, and obviously those who are held there themselves.

HARLOW: That's really striking to hear from him because the question has been, you know, what will they want in exchange, thousands and thousands of their prisoners being held it sounds like. Christian, thank you for that interview and the reporting as always.

Now, watch this video. It was recorded by Guy Danon. He hides in a bush shortly after Hamas militants attacked the Nova Music Festival.

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HARLOW: Just imagine hiding like that during what we now know as a massacre of 260 people right near that site. Guy and his friends were celebrating his 27th birthday when this attack began. It forced them to run for their lives and eventually, they found a spot in the middle of nowhere, lying inside those bushes that you see around them, and they stayed there for more than eight hours until they were rescued by a complete stranger. And Guy Danon joins us now.

I am so thankful everyone is that -- you and your friends made it out alive. So many did not make. When you were running, finally, you believed that you were being shot at. It was that close of a call for you.

GUY DANON, SURVIVED MUSIC FESTIVAL ATTACK: Yes, Poppy, yes. First of all, thank you for the kind words. And yes, it was truly terrifying. We didn't know, like, if we were getting shot at or no. But at this moment, I saw two friends of ours that we were separated earlier. And the moment before that, we just thought that we are surrounded and the shots were so close. I really thought, that's it. We're going to die.

And with the moment I saw them, it just gave me the strength. I signaled them. I told them to come here, and we ran together all the way to the area where the bushes were. And it was like -- it seemed like an inaccessible area, so we just slide inside the thorn bushes and we hid there for eight hours, yes.

HARLOW: You know, we always say that when the worst of humanity is shown, we also see the best of humanity. And I think your story exemplifies that. A good Samaritan, a hero, saved your life. Came to your rescue. His name is Oz and you didn't know him. What did he do? How did he save you?

[07:50:00]

DANON: Yes, exactly. So, I didn't know him. And during the time we were hiding in the bushes, I was only able to text by SMS to my sister, which she had known several people that connect -- connected me to him. He sent me a message and told me, where are you? I'm coming to get you. Don't you worry. You will be safe. And, yes, he -- he's just a hero. He's like -- he risked his life. He's just citizen. And I have so many thanks to him. Like, I don't know how could I even be thankful for that.

HARLOW: And he saved not just you guys, but many others?

DANON: Yes, exactly. Like, he -- I think, he saved, like, tens of people only that day alone. And I know that he kept going the day after and he won't stop until he knows that he has secured everyone that has been in the area. He is just a remarkable man.

HARLOW: You are joining us from Lod, Israel. But can I ask -- I have to ask, you are sitting purposefully in front of an American flag. Can I ask why?

DANON: No, it's just -- in my house, like, I have this flag. And I really love America. I have been in America a couple of times. And, yes, I got family in America and New York and New Jersey. So, yes, that's it.

HARLOW: It was very clear from President Biden yesterday that America stands right alongside you in all of this. Guy, thank you very much.

DANON: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, we're continuing to follow all of the developments out of Israel and Gaza. But here in the U.S., there is no sign from House Republicans that they can agree on a new house speaker. We're going to ask Republican Congressman Steve Womack about that and what's next, coming up next. Stay with us.

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MATTINGLY: It is a busy day on Capitol Hill. House Republicans are expected to vote for Kevin McCarthy's successor. House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan are the conference's two candidates, known candidates for speaker. But after a closed-door forum last night, lawmakers, well, they appeared to be no closer to coalescing around one of them.

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REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): I am not thrilled with either choice right now. I think someone will come forward. I think someone else will come forward, and I don't know who that is, and I am not backing anybody.

REP. KELLY ARMSTRONG (R-ND): In case you guys haven't noticed, we're a pretty divided conference right now. So, I think this might take a little time to sort out and figure out a way through it.

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MATTINGLY: Several members of the Republican conference telling reporters that neither candidate is close to the 217 votes needed to win the gavel. Joining us now, Republican Congressman from Arkansas, Steve Womack. He's on the Appropriations Committee. He's a supporter of Congressman's Steve Scalise, the current majority leader for speaker. Congressman Womack, I appreciate your time. To start with, I think the fairly obvious question, do you believe you end this day with 217 Republicans in favor of a single candidate?

REP. STEVE WOMACK (R-AR): No, I don't. And there is good reason why. Of course, we have to meet this morning in conference at 10:00, and I think the first thing up will be the proposed rules change that instead of the person getting the majority of votes being our nominee to the floor of the House.

[07:55:00]

That instead there will be an amended -- amendment to the rule that would require the candidate that will go forward from the conference to have the requisite number majority votes for the whole Congress. So. that's 217.

MATTINGLY: Right.

WOMACK: And if that's the benchmark, then it is unlikely that we will seat a speaker today or this week, for that matter, because that is a high bar. and neither of the candidates that are currently in the mix have demonstrated the ability to command that type of number.

MATTINGLY: And yet it seems like the support -- the requisite amount of support is there to pursue that bar, to put that bar into place. And I guess the question becomes, what's the end game here?

WOMACK: I don't know what the end game is. The -- obviously, the end game is we need to elect a speaker. I personally do not support that rule.

MATTINGLY: Right.

WOMACK: The rule change, because I am kind of a put up or shown up kind of guy. I believe that we need to go to the floor of the house and we need to have our names called and we need to disclosed who we are for in public, in front of everybody with complete transparency. To do this -- look, I support doing it by secret ballot in our conference so that we can get a majority of those votes and send that nominee forward. But at the end of the day, we're going to need to go to the floor and be able to disclose who we are for and why.

MATTINGLY: You refer to the conference as a bit of a scatter gram the other day, which is actually a very helpful visual for me and I think fairly accurate, as well. You know, to your point, the value of going to the floor even if you don't have 217, it kind of forces everybody out into the open. Puts pressure on people to actually reach an outcome.

To -- what you're saying, I don't understand how this ends anytime soon if this rule is implemented and neither candidate is anywhere near 217 votes.

WOMACK: Well, we're just going to be stuck in our conference meeting. And it will spare the Republican public the drama on TV, but the members of the House -- the GOP minority are going to sit in conference, round after round after round, and forum after forum, before we can coalesce around a candidate. I think we ought to do it the way we did it with Kevin McCarthy. We ought to have the conference vote. We ought to submit our nominee forward. Let that vote take place on the floor of the House.

We know the Democrats are going to be nominating Hakeem Jeffries. I would like to see the Republicans decide at that moment to put their support for the nominee that we put forward. That's really the quickest way out of this, in my opinion. But if we amend the rule and we have to require 217, I think we're going to be stuck in neutral for a while.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask, how frustrated are you right now? You're an appropriator. You're a congressman who's known --

WOMACK: Are you kidding me?

MATTINGLY: -- as somebody who does the work.

WOMACK: Look, I have been frustrated since before we were seated as the new majority. But I knew going in that with a very thin, four or five seat majority, we were going to struggle to get some of the most important work done. You know, we got through debt ceiling. We got through the speakers vote, then the debt ceiling, and then we ran into a brick wall on appropriations.

And as you said, I am an appropriator. So, funding the government is part of our fundamental duty and we can't even do that. So -- and now, here we are at the 11th hour, with a clock ticking on a CR that runs out in mid-November and we can't seat a speaker. Man, that says volumes. At first it was somewhat comical. Now, it's on -- it's bordering on the absurd. So, let's hope that we can put this behind us quickly and move on to the important business of our country and our world.

MATTINGLY: Speaking of the important business, my preferred route of questioning which is on the policy side of things, the administration seems to be leaning towards trying to combine Ukraine funding and emergency funding for Israel given its conflict. Do you think that has a pathway forward?

WOMACK: Well, as you probably know, I -- look, I support everything we can do for Israel, given the current circumstances, and we need to do it posthaste. And that begins with getting a speaker elected. But I'm also a big supporter of helping our friends in Ukraine defend themselves against Vladimir Putin.

So, I'm not going to sacrifice one for the other. But they are both important matters and we need have a full-throated discussion about it in our conference. And I hope they don't get caught up in the drama that's going on in the House right now.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Have to have a speaker to move those forward, a majority for both, no question about it. Congressman Steve Womack, understand the frustration. Appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

WOMACK: Glad to be with you. Thank you so much.

MATTINGLY: And "CNN This Morning" continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. It is the top of the hour. We are glad you are joining us. It is 8:00 a.m. here in New York, 3:00 p.m. in Israel where the war with Hamas is rapidly intensifying. We have team coverage on the ground. Our Erin Burnett and Nic Robertson both standing by.

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