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CNN This Morning

Strikes in Ashkelon; Aaron Cohen is Interviewed about Rescue Efforts; Jordan and Scale Make Case to GOP; Wolf Blitzer Shares His Thoughts on Israel. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 11, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:38]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's get straight back to our colleague Erin Burnett.

Erin, you are live at the scene of more damage in Ashkelon, Israel.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Poppy. And, you know, Phil, as we've gone through this morning, earlier when we saw, you know, just the barrage of rocket strikes above us where the forces were massed, Israeli forces along the Gaza border, those rockets, obviously, were all aimed here in greater Ashkelon, where we are right now. And you talk about the cadence, right, that you get the sirens, and a few seconds later you hear the noises and you see the interceptions. Well, out of about 60 rockets we understand a few of them managed to either break through or were only partially intercepted.

So, we're standing where one of this happened. So, this is the outcome, right, when they do break through. Rocket comes into this apartment building, goes through. There's still a live fire going on here. When we came here there were still emergency crews for this apartment build where we are.

And, look, you see these things here, you see these things in Ukraine, but it does make you realize, right, that this is the precariousness of human life and this is the randomness of these rocket strikes. So, this rocket comes through, after what we were sawing - saw. Actually when we were talking to you guys, right, in that ditch. This happened. And we don't know if there were any injuries here. We do believe there were injuries here in Ashkelon, although we have not heard of any deaths.

But Albert's going to show us here what happens. This is what happens around. And it's all on the physics of where you are on a side of the building and the randomness of a rocket attack. This is just one car. All the cars around here have their windows complexly blown out. A little minivan over there blown out. Cars here completely blown out. And that's really what we're seeing.

Some of these people are going over to their cars right now. I can see over there also where they've had severe damage. People just going about their lives who are still living here in this city. As I've been saying to you all, just over 100,000 people, 130,000 or so people here in Ashkelon, right near the Gaza border, under this sort of heavy and constant assault.

We keep hearing the thuds every few moments. As you know, about 10, 15 minutes ago when we were with you, right, we had to seek refuge in that - in that stairway. Our security -- when we - we heard those booms. And this is what it's like. So, from start to finish, when you hear that siren, until you see what happens at the other end, that's - that's the arc.

[08:35:02]

That's the arc of what happens here, Phil and Poppy.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, when you talk to residents, when you talk to the people, who, as you noted, just kind of end up having to go about their daily lives, do they have a sense of the severity of what may be coming in the wake of what we saw this past weekend?

BURNETT: They do. They have a resignation. They have a belief that what -- there is no moral equivalency in terms of what happened to Israelis in the terror attack, what happened to Israeli babies and children, that there is no moral equivalent between that and a likely invasion of Gaza, which, of course, would include civilian death. Israel has been clear about that. They know that. That is a reality.

There is a resignation and an acceptance of that and an expectation. A really heavy sense of weightiness. Because, yes, people are here, people are living their lives, but it is not normal. The streets are deserted. Many of the stores, as Nic Robertson was say, are closed. The ones that are open are not very full. It is a nation on the edge, on the verge, and a nation waiting.

And as we saw just a couple kilometers from here, and Nic Robertson was showing you, you have more than 300,000 Israeli forces massing along the Gaza border down here alone right now.

HARLOW: A nation at war.

And, Erin, we're so grateful you're there on the ground with that. Thank you. We'll get back to you very soon.

MATTINGLY: Well, Israeli officials say up to 150 hostages have been taken, including Eviatar David (ph). Eviatar's brother spoke to CNN's Abby Philip last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ILAY DAVID, BROTHER HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS: Two days ago, two officers came to our house and confirmed what we already knew, that my brother is kidnapped and being kept in the Gaza Strip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was Eviatar's brother, Itay. He gave us permission to air the video you are about to see of his brother being taken because he wants the world to know and see exactly what happened.

HARLOW: Before we play it, a warning, it is very hard to watch.

So, this is video that is propaganda video. It is released by Hamas. CNN has blurred the language on the screen and the faces of the other hostages. Itay says his brother was one of the many who attended that music festival and was brutally attacked there. He was tied up and put in the back of a truck, taken away. Itay told Abby that he has no choice but to hope that somehow the IDF will be able to rescue his brothers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ILAY DAVID, BORTHER HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS: We have to believe that the IDF is doing anything to secure our sisters and our brothers and bring them back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now is someone with extensive experience in counter terrorism efforts, Israeli special operations veteran Aaron Cohen.

Aaron, thank you so much.

How do you do it? If you're the IDF right now, how do you execute this mission and rescue them and lead this attack?

AARON COHEN, ISRAELI SPECIAL OPERATIONS VETERAN: Well, let me - let me start with this. Israel is no junior varsity when it comes to hostage rescue. We may not have invented it, but let me tell you something, we perfected it.

I'm going to take you back to June 3, 1976. The Israelis rescued of Entebbe, Uganda, from the old terminal 103 hostages being held by the Black September terror group. We did it again when we conducted the first ever what's called tubular or linear assault, which is an entry on an aircraft, a 707 in the '70s that had taken hostages and landed into Lod Airport in Tel Aviv.

Israel, their counterterror hostage rescue teams are some of the finest in the world. Let me break it down. You've got the general staff reconnaissance unit, which is Bibi Netanyahu's old unit. That's the same unit that went to Entebbe, where his older brother was the only Israeli casualty, Yonatan Netanyahu. He's a national treasure. And we've got the imam, which is the Yehida Merkazit Meyuhedet, or the Israel police national counterterror unit, one of the top three in the world.

How we get these hostages back is, first and foremost, intelligence. And right now the general staff reconnaissance unit and the imam of the Israeli national police have assets on the ground that are working in conjunction with our Mossad and Shin Bet intelligence agencies. Thousands of agents are listening to thousands of phone calls.

The general staff reconnaissance unit has assets on the ground right now planting listening devices all over Israel. Now, we are - and I'm not talking about an incursion here. We're preparing for that and I'll come into that. But to get these hostages, we need information. We need to know what buildings they're located in. We need to know what rooms they're in so that we can begin to develop plans, or the Israelis can develop plans to make entry.

However, I want to say this, the hostage rescue operations, and there have been several that have been conducted in the southern portion of Israel in the last few days where over 20 hostages have been rescued, that is a good sign.

[08:40:04]

However, the hostage rescue operations that are being planned right now in Gaza, it's a different animal. And I'll tell you why. That is unsterile territory. There are booby traps. There are Hamas terrorists in there waiting for Israeli forces. And the problem is, is that when you talk about hostage rescue in a foreign territory, in enemy territory, it's not unlike a cold case with a murder. And what I mean by that is, for every second you waste, the terrorists can be moved. They can be taken to other locations. The more time in between the actual assault or takedown and the intelligence that's being gathered creates a greater amount of distance because those terrorists can be moved around.

And remember, guys, we're talking about 89-year-old women. We're talking about babies. We're talking about teenagers. We're talking about the elderly. So, it is very complicated. Israel's on the clock here and they have to move quickly.

But I want to tell you this, again, Israel invented the playbook. And you're about to see Israel at its finest. So, stand by.

MATTINGLY: Aaron, the secretary of defense -- U.S. officials have been talking about what they have offered in terms of resources and assets. The secretary of defense said that there's actually a cell on the ground, U.S. special operators are available and are in the region itself.

COHEN: That's right.

MATTINGLY: The U.S. and Israel, in special operations scenarios, work very closely together, train, know each other quite well. What's the relationship like in this specific case?

COHEN: Well, the relationship between the United States special operations units, Delta Force, DEVGRU, also known as SEAL Team 6, the unit that killed bin Laden, the unit that recued Captain Phillips, and the Israeli special operations forces, our general staff unit, the imam, they're thick as thieves and they've been - they've been sharing intelligence.

Look, we're essentially -- we are America's forward operating base in the Middle East. We provide extensive amount of intelligence back and forth between the agencies. From what I understand, there are American assets right now because there is a possibility that there are U.S. hostages that are being held. I cannot confirm. I don't know. But it is a possibility. Those units train extensively together. They did a lot of operations against ISIS in a very clandestine unit that was operating or has been operating for the last eight years in Syria and other parts of the Middle East.

These units train together. These units share information. They are constantly in contact. That includes German assets, the GSG9, the British SAS. They have a fantastic relationship. And right now they are talking, they are planning. And the U.S. intelligence technical capabilities with that fleet that's been moved into the region has an incredible signal intelligence capability that is being shared with the Israelis right now to help zero in on those hostages. That's our first concern right now in this operation. We need to get those hostages.

And if you ask me how it could be done, I believe that the smokescreen of the counteroffensive, which is being planned by the Givati Brigade in the south, the 300 - the reservists that's been called up, the Givati Brigade it's Israel's equivalent to the Marines. I think there's going to be a smokescreen there and an opportunity to use the chaos of that incursion or counteroffensive to mount multiple hostage rescue takedowns.

It's going to be dangerous. It's going to be high intensity. And like your reporter said, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed, unfortunately. But we -- we pay a heavy price to have an Israeli state. So, this is what we do, we come together in these times and we're creative and we execute with audacity and poise and precision. And it's time for Israel to go to work. And that's what we're preparing for.

HARLOW: Aaron Cohen, we really appreciate your expertise on this. Thank you very much.

COHEN: Thank you so much, guys.

HARLOW: And here are some live pictures from Gaza City, where airstrikes have been raining down all day.

Back here in the United States, aid to Israel hanging in the balance as House Republicans try to agree on a new House speaker. Without one, they cannot act and Congress is paralyzed.

Back in a moment.

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[08:46:09]

HARLOW: A live look at the Capitol this morning where the race for House speaker is continuing. And it appears Republicans are not closer to finding a candidate who can get the requisite 218 votes needed to hold the gavel. Multiple Republicans tell CNN the conference is not close to finding a speaker. For more than two hours last night the two contenders, Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise, made their pitches. Ousted Speaker Kevin McCarthy is urging supporters not to nominate him, but some of the conference believe he may get some votes anyway. But, why this matters. Without a speaker, plans for critical additional aid to Israel, also funding for Ukraine, it's all held up. And, by the way, there is a government shutdown potentially around the corner.

Joining us CNN political commentator David Axelrod and Republican strategist Doug Heye.

Good morning.

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good morning.

HARLOW: Doug -- Doug, you're the Republican -

HEYE: Yes. Thank you.

HARLOW: You're the Republican strategist.

MATTINGLY: Good luck, Doug.

HARLOW: What the heck?

HEYE: Yes.

HARLOW: At a moment like this, in all seriousness.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Clean it up, man.

HEYE: Yes, well, I mean, that's what the whole purpose is about. And I think, you know, you both spent a lot of time in the Capitol and you know that when the Republican conference meets after 5:00 p.m., it's not good news. When they meet more than once in a week it's not good news. And that's -- that's the very real situation of where we are now.

And we've heard this talked a lot about as a family meeting. The reality is, this is mom and dad having the fight in front of the kids, and the kids all have phones in their hands where they're telling people outside of the living room exactly what's happening in that fight. And those can be interesting and fun parlor games, but here's why it's not fun and interesting parlor -- it may be interesting, but not fun parlor games.

After that motion to vacate was gaveled, we heard a member on the floor yell, what's the plan? And that's the reality of where Republicans are right now. There still is no plan. There's no end in sight. And this could continue, not just through today, but for several days, if not into next week. And given everything that's going on in the world right now, Republicans should be able to show that they've got their act together and that the American government has its act together.

MATTINGLY: David, if you're the administration - you've been in the White House -- trying to plan for, as the president made clear, they need emergency supplemental aid for Ukraine. They've already asked for some. They want a lot more. They need emergency supplemental funds for Israel.

AXELROD: Yes.

MATTINGLY: How do you map out a legislative strategy when you have no idea who's going to be leading the House majority?

AXELROD: Well, it's hard. And as Doug said, this underscores the seriousness of the situation. You know, we tend to cover these things like sports. But there are real consequences to it here.

The one thing I wonder about, and Doug knows this world far better than I, but they're going to take a secret ballot vote this morning. Secret ballots are kind of interesting exercises. And I'm not sure anybody knows quite what -- a lot of people haven't declared their intentions. I remember Morris Udall, who was a congressman in the 1970s, ran for a leadership post. He was from Arizona. And he thought he was going to win, and he lost when they took a secret ballot. And he came out and said, you know what the difference is between a caucus and a cactus? With a cactus, the pricks are on the outside.

HARLOW: Oh.

AXELROD: So -- can you say that on morning TV?

HARLOW: Well, you just did.

AXELROD: Well, it's cable (ph).

HEYE: You did.

MATTINGLY: OK, we're good.

AXELROD: But the point is, you never know what's going to happen inside those meetings. And if someone comes - if someone has, you know, a lead of some margin, I do think there has to be some recognition in that room that you look really, really bad drawing this thing out. You look incompetent when the world is on fire. And so, you know, we'll see if they can form consensus. And maybe some people take a walk and -- on the vote and lower the threshold. But, man, if I were advising them, I'd say, get - get to it, guys and girls.

[08:50:00]

HARLOW: Doug.

HEYE: Yes, I saw Steve Womack on earlier and I think Phil said he's somebody who --

HARLOW: Yes, it was a great interview.

HEYE: He's somebody who does the work is what Phil said. And part of the problem that Republicans had, that we have in our politics more broadly, is that we don't reward the people who do the work. We reward the people with attention and fundraising who wear the shirts. And that's what we saw last night when Nancy Mace walked in. And it's why Republicans have had this problem, why we've gotten to this point and we don't know how long this process will last.

And I - you know, I remember one of Phil's favorite people, Roddy Piper, used to say, when you think you know the answers, I change the questions. That's going to happen for Republicans today and tomorrow and could extend well into next week. And there are very real implications for that.

HARLOW: Remember when Jeff Flake left Congress, a Republican, and he said, there's absolutely zero reward for working together?

AXELROD: Yes.

HARLOW: There is zero.

AXELROD: No, I think -

HARLOW: And that was then.

AXELROD: The - I - I -

HARLOW: And now.

AXELROD: I think it's a fundamental problem in our politics and it sort of mirrors social media. The intensive structure is out of whack. And so anger, alienation, outrage, these things are rewarded. Cooperation, compromise, these things are disdained. And it's very, very bad for democracy.

MATTINGLY: Yes. What's necessary is continuation of the two favorite name drops, Mo Udall and Roddy Piper in the same exact sit-down.

HARLOW: Don't forget the PR I -

AXELROD: Yes. You don't get that anywhere else.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Well, that's Mo Udall.

HARLOW: Prick comment (ph).

MATTINGLY: But I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I didn't say that.

HARLOW: Thank you, gentlemen.

MATTINGLY: David, Doug, we appreciate you guys. Thanks so much.

HEYE: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu calling President Biden yesterday thanking him for his support and telling him just how brutal Saturday's terrorist attack was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We were struck Saturday by an attack who savagery I can say we have not seen since the Holocaust. And since we last spoke, the extent of this evil, it's only gotten

worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Wolf Blitzer joins us next to put what is going on in the Middle East into historical perspective.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard, during my childhood, about the pogrom in Europe (ph) and then the Holocaust, of course. All my family came from Europe and they are survivors, et cetera, et cetera. I never think that I would see in my eyes picture and scenes like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It was a remarkable moment. It happened yesterday morning live on our show.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: This is a major general for the IDF telling CNN's Nic Robertson that despite the tragic history of violence against the Jewish people, he's still unable to comprehend the carnage he's witness this week.

Just yesterday Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used similar language in a phone call with President Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We were struck Saturday by an attack who savagery I can say we have not seen since the Holocaust.

We have never seen such savagery in the history of the state. And they're even worse than ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We are starting to learn details as the death toll and the scope of the brutality are coming into focus. More than 1,200 are dead in Israel and at least 1,050 are dead in Gaza. Israeli officials say up to 150 people have been taken hostage by Hamas militants. And still many remain unaccounted for, like Ori Arad (ph), who has been missing ever since the attack on the Israeli music festival Saturday.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke to Ori's brothers. They also compared Hamas' attack to Israel to the Holocaust.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHAY ARAD, BROTHER MISSING IN ISRAEL: In an act of pure evil, I don't have any other word to describe it, they shoot him again in a scene that's taken from the Holocaust period or something like that.

[08:55:11]

We don't have any official information about Ori. Is he alive? Is he injured? Is he in hospital or still in the field? Maybe he's dead. Maybe he's kidnapped. We don't know nothing. We are in complete darkness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: To put this all into perspective, so happy to be joined by our friend and CNN anchor of "THE SITUATION ROOM," Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, thanks so much for getting up early to be with us because you're so -- you've covered so many conflicts, particularly in the Middle East. And in the moments after this attack over the weekend, there were so many comparisons to the Yom Kippur War, to 1973. But now we also see how different it is fighting a terrorist organization, not conventional warfare at all.

Put this in perspective as we wait to see what Israel will do next.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I think it's fair to say, Poppy, that all of the Israeli experts on this, and they've - and they've watched all of the wars that Israel has been involved in since 1948 when Israel was established, this is unprecedented what's going on right now. And it's -- it's a new battle that Israel is now facing from these Hamas terrorists who crossed into Israel and went door to door in various kibbutz and various locations, including that musical festival, and jut deciding to go kill as many Israelis as they possibly could. It's been a shocking development indeed, especially for everyone in Israel.

And I've been speaking with Israelis almost on a daily basis, getting their sense of what's going on. This is truly something that hasn't happened before. Israel has faced terrorism over the years, suicide bombers and things like that. They faced full-scale wars, the 1967 six-day war, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, but those were with countries, Egypt, Jordan, Syria in those days.

HARLOW: Right.

BLITZER: This is a very different situation that has now developed.

MATTINGLY: Wolf, to that point, you have not just friends, family, but also long-time sources at very high levels inside Israel. At what point did they move from shocked to steeling themselves for what's to come?

BLITZER: I think they're moving to that point right now. They are almost certainly going to move into Gaza and deal with Hamas as best as they can, knowing it's complicated, knowing it's very dangerous and knowing that there's a huge civilian population there, but -- and also knowing now that there are a lot of hostages that Hamas took from Israel into Gaza.

So, it's very, very complicated. I'm sure their military planners, their intelligence planners, are going through various scenarios, rehearsals how to deal with this. But I suspect that's going to happen in the coming days. And I've been convinced for days now, since Saturday morning, that this new war that has developed is only just beginning. And I still believe that.

HARLOW: Wolf, I want to show our viewers, this is you prior in some of these tunnels that Hamas dug. You have experience with the tactics that they have used to attack Israel before. Speak to us about that as we think about this conflict now and how far Hamas will go and what they will do next.

BLITZER: This was a tunnel. And I was the first journalist allowed to go through this tunnel several years ago when I went to cover an earlier war that was going on between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

It was built by the Hamas and it went right out of Gaza and up to a kibbutz along the border. And that they would go in and their plan at that time, which was thwarted by the Israelis, was to use this tunnel, instead of going across a fence from Gaza into Israel, to go through these tunnels that they were building. And they were pretty sophisticated tunnels indeed. And I walked through it from Gaza into Israel and it was a really powerful experience for me as a journalist.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Wolf, as the son of Holocaust survivors, how is this -- how are you reflecting on this moment?

BLITZER: Well, it's extremely sad. A thousand Jews were killed in one day, the first day that this incursion by Hamas developed. One thousand Jews in one day. That's more than have occurred since the Holocaust. And I know it's affecting the American Jewish community very, very strongly. Jews not in the U.S. - not only in the U.S. but around the world.

And I couldn't help but notice that President Biden, two days in a row, yesterday and the day before, he made a strong statement warning of threats to the American Jewish community as well. I'll read to you what he said yesterday because it jumped out at me two days in a row. He said something along these lines, "we are also taking steps at home in cities across the United States of America. Police departments have stepped up security around centers of Jewish life.

The Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are working closely with state and local law enforcement and Jewish community partners to identify and disrupt any domestic threat that could emerge in connection with these horrific attacks."

[09:00:10]

If you drive around, I'm sure here in Washington or suburban Maryland or Virginia or in New York or Chicago or other cities, you drive around, you see a synagogue, you almost always nowadays see a police car or two right outside.

HARLOW: Yes.

BLITZER: There's a lot of concern about the potential spillover from what's happening between Gaza and Israel and what could happen here. So, there is a lot of fear about that right now.

HARLOW: Brings it home for so many.

Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much for being with us for this perspective, for your reporting. We will see you tonight on "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Thanks for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" continues our coverage.