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CNN This Morning

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says, "Hamas is ISIS"; Blinken to Meet with Israeli and Palestinian Officials; Interview with IDF Spokesman Major Doron Spielman; Israel Prepares for "Next Stage of War"; Teen Recounts his Parents Being Killed by Hamas; Interview with Both Parents Killed in Hamas Attack Rotem Matias; Interview with Both Parents Killed in Hamas Attack Shir Matias; Interview with Both Parents Killed in Hamas Shakked Matias; Interview with Daughter and Son-in-Law Killed in Hamas Attack Ilan Troen; Blinken meets with Netanyahu to show U.S. support; Interview with Principal Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer; Israel has the Obligation to Defend Itself. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 12, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:00]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: -- to speak. So, when I say some of the things that can be done diplomatically, I was speaking with sources in the region last night who say what they're trying to do is get a plan together that shuts down all of Hamas' international offices around the Arab region and other places where they may have them in the world as well, as it is with ISIS

ISIS has no foothold, no purchase to have a public platform in any countries around the world. And this is part of what the mechanism is to take on Hamas, is to shut them do, is to essentially -- politically, as well as militarily, as well as what we heard from Secretary Blinken there describing the way that life should essentially be valued on both sides when the response is taken, which was very clear in his language there apart from having obviously no daylight between him -- between the United States and Israel on the moral clarity about what -- the barbarity of what Hamas has done, the response that is required.

But I think part of that response comes by shutting down Hamas internationally and diplomatically in this region. I know that is something that's being worked on behind the scenes. And a small footnote to that, speaking earlier this year here to a senior U.N. Representative in the region, very familiar with all the Palestinian military.

Look, we're very concerned because we are beginning to see an emergence of the ISIS brand of radical Islamist thinking and behavior. We're seeing their language, their propaganda. We're even seeing sort of potential small cells emerging in the Palestinian community, and that was giving him a huge degree of concern because it opened the door to exactly what we've seen here, this magnitude of barbarity that we haven't seen before here. POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And so, clear that call, Nic, from Prime Minister Netanyahu for -- to any entity, any country around the world, any regime that would harbor or aid Hamas in any way. Nic, thank you. We'll get back to you very soon.

I just want to tell our viewers, on the left side of your screen, those are live images of strikes in the port right outside of Gaza City, as well as we go to our colleague Jeremy Diamond. He joins us in Ashdod, Israel. Jeremy, what can you tell us from where you are?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, Poppy, I just want to come back to the comments that we just heard from Secretary Blinken and the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, the focus that both of them dedicated to the barbarity of those attacks by Hamas describing them in detail, talking about the burning of civilians alive, babies slaughtered, women raped, this was from both Secretary Blinken and from the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu.

And I think it's really important to understand why they are doing that at this moment. And the reason why is that both of them are effectively providing the rationale for the next phase of Israel's military response. They are trying to build up public support for that response and in addition to showing that there is no daylight between the United States and Israel, they want the public at large, both here in Israel, in the United States, but around the world to understand why the casualties that will undoubtedly follow, why those are going to happen.

We do know that if Israel goes in with a ground invasion, not only will that result in additional casualties to Israeli soldiers who go into Gaza, but that the civilian casualties inside of Gaza will continue to rise. And I think it's really important not to lose focus on the fact that the Palestinian civilians inside of Gaza are so often caught in the crossfire.

We know that given how congested the City of Gaza is, the fact that Hamas operates within civilian areas, within residential buildings, and also the fact that the Israeli military typically does go ahead and strike those buildings and has increasingly been doing so with less warning than they typically do. We have watched the civilian death toll inside of Gaza begin to rise. And there is no doubt that if Israel moves forward with an invasion of Gaza unprecedented in scale, the death toll will rise on all sides.

And so, what you were hearing there as they try and summon the emotion of this moment, the emotion of the attacks, the emotion that is felt here in Israel by everyone who was shocked by the senseless brutality of those murders, they are also trying to capture that, bottle it up, and essentially, send it out to the world before the casualties that we will undoubtedly see in the next phase of this military response.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Jeremy, stay with us. I want to bring in Beth Sanner. Beth, when you listened -- look, this is quite literally a demonstration of unity of the U.S. and this administration being completely aligned with Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government, the Israeli people, at least, publicly. What did you take away from the remarks that you heard from both the prime minister and the secretary of State?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD'S BELFER CENTER AND FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I think that what we just heard was ?perfectly said about what the goal of this was, and to kind of inoculate as much as possible this operation against criticism.

And just to point out a step further that, you know, the siege that is going on, they've shut down now in Gaza, all water and electricity, and the Red Cross is asking for just electricity and supplies to go to hospitals, that's been denied because this is like total war. And I think this shows that it's going to get trickier and trickier as this operation moves on. The images that will be coming out of civilians dying in Gaza will be complicated.

And I also want to get back to also the idea of the -- likes going on here with the Iranian president and the Saudi leader, Mohammed bin Salman, talking last night and what -- and what's going to happen also with Blinken in the rest of this trip.

HARLOW: What is going to happen with Blinken in the rest of this trip, as he takes those other critical meetings in the region?

SANNER: Right. So, today, he will meet with -- he'll go to Jordan. He'll meet with the crown prince -- or the king there. And also. he'll meet with Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, a very -- you know, very elderly and weak figure, but the only other alternative to Hamas within this Palestinian construct, right? He runs the West Bank. They don't control Gaza. But that is to try to keep this from escalating and also, to show this, as Blinken really pointed out, the difference between Hamas, a terrorist group, and the Palestinian people.

The Iranians, as they spoke -- as he spoke to Mohammed bin Salman, the readout from that, they were trying to really make the whole Palestinian question as a unified one, whereas the Saudi crown prince and Lincoln and others are trying to really separate that out. And that's essential to prevent escalation. It's essential to prevent the West Bank from blowing up.

HARLOW: Right.

SANNER: And so, that's really key.

HARLOW: Thank you so much, Beth. Stand by as we bring back in the spokesman for the IDF, Major Doron Spielman. I apologize for having to interrupt you, and I really appreciate you staying as we listen to those important remarks.

Please finish answering the question that we had asked prior, which was the intelligence within Gaza. How confident are you that it is good enough to execute whatever is going to come next while protecting and rescuing those hostages? MAJ. DORON SPIELMAN, IDF SPOKESMAN: Well, as we were saying before, that incredible speech, and I'll just say as a soldier in the Israeli army, we have our moral clarity, but to hear the United States shares values of life and liberty, which are the same values that Israel shares of life and liberty is a great encouragement, I think an inspiration for the Israeli people who have a very long road ahead.

Regarding the issue of the hostages, again, this is an incredibly personal issue, as both the secretary and the prime minister spoke about. We have increased our intel dramatically. We have robust intel that we've been gathering. We have two generals that have established two different -- almost, you would call them ministries that are dedicated to this.

And as that increased, we've also increased our intelligence on the Nakba squads, who are -- were really the front guard of that incurred into our -- the Israeli territory sent by Hamas with that mission to destroy. We now have many of their names or identities or locations. And as we've said, they are the front guard that are responsible for carrying out this massacre. And none of them, no matter where they be, are going to be safe, because we will hold them accountable for this massacre.

MATTINGLY: Major Spielman, a big part of the last several days has been trying to identify accurate information, misinformation. There's a lot of rumors flying about, including what's happening to the north. We're learning right now that there are social media reports that there may have been Israeli strikes in Syria. Wondering if you have any information about that.

SPIELMAN: What I can tell you is I can't really confirm a foreign media report. What I will tell you, and we've been very, very clear about this, and I -- again, I think we heard this really alluded to in the speech that we were all just witness to, is that we will stand against any threat to our country, whether it be in Lebanon, Syria, or Gaza.

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Israel is not going to allow any of these threats to go unnoticed. We are at a war currently with Gaza because it is clear that it is truly the existence and continuation of the State of Israel's that at hand. And so, that is my answer to that question. I think we will see that moving forward in the coming weeks and perhaps months.

MATTINGLY: All right. Major Doron Spielman, spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

SPIELMAN: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And ahead, you'll hear from an Israeli teenager who survived the attack by Hamas because he was shielded by his parents. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARLOW: Deborah and Shlomi Matias were killed by Hamas militants in their home while shielding their 16-year-old-son, Rotem. And earlier this week, we heard from Deborah's father, Ilan Troen, about that horrific day.

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ILAN TROEN, DAUGHTER, SON-IN-LAW KILLED IN HAMAS ATTACK: We were on the phone with Deborah as she was killed. We were on the phone the entire day with our son -- our grandson, Rotem, wrote him as he lay first under her body and then found a place to escape under a blanket in the -- in a laundry. He was told not to speak. And therefore, he was to hide and use texting. By the time he was rescued, he had 4 percent left in his battery.

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HARLOW: Rotem Matias ?and his sisters, Shir and Shakked, are with us now. And again, joining us also, their grandfather, Ilan Troen.

There are not words to describe how sorry we are, and I'm so grateful you can join us in helping honor the lives of your parents. Rotem, I know you're still recovering. How are you doing?

ROTEM MATIAS, BOTH PARENTS KILLED IN HAMAS ATTACK: I'm doing very well. I'm able to walk now. A few days ago, I couldn't even stand. The bullet inside my stomach has been taken out via surgery, and I'm feeling much, much better.

HARLOW: We are showing, as we speak to you, these beautiful pictures of your parents. And it was so striking to hear your grandfather earlier this week describe what they did to save you and how your mother bore the brunt of the gunfire and did what every, you know, mother would do for their child. Could you help tell us about her and your father?

R. MATIAS: Well, I can't really explain them in words, but they were the best. They did everything in their power to give us the life that they wanted us to have. They wanted us to be happy, to be whimsical, they wanted us to be joyful, they wanted us to be in peace. They didn't want us to be at a situation like this, and they wanted us to live more than anything. So, as you said, yes, mom and dad, they sacrificed their lives to save me.

HARLOW: Yes. Shir, to you.

SHIR MATIAS, BOTH PARENTS KILLED IN HAMAS ATTACK: Yes.

HARLOW: What would you like to share?

SHIR MATIAS: Yes. I just want to say that we are very, very sad that our parents are gone. They were very, very brave. They were good people and they didn't deserve anything. It was horrible. None of the people in Israel, none of the foreign citizens who were here, who were taken deserved any of this. Sadly, we still haven't gotten a chance to have a funeral for our parents. And we're just still sitting and waiting to hear anything about them.

HARLOW: Shakked, not only did you lose your parents, but you also had to learn -- you learned that they were killed from your brother, Rotem, sending you that message, those moments for you.

SHAKKED MATIAS, BOTH PARENTS KILLED IN HAMAS ATTACK: Yes, we both --

HARLOW: Go ahead.

SHAKKED MATIAS: It was very -- I didn't want to believe it, as I don't think anyone would ever want to believe that the text message, it said, mom and dad are dead. Mom and dad are dead, sorry. And that was when my service was gone, and I was cut off. And I was left about 13, 14 hours in the safe room. I had no idea what happened to my parents as they really are gone, and I didn't know if my brother was still here. And I was so worried and I was so scared.

And we all -- we heard bombs everywhere, and we heard shooting, and we heard screams No one should ever have to go through that, ever.

HARLOW: No

SHAKKED MATIAS: Yes.

HARLOW: No, no, they should not. And I can see Rotem comforting you. And I'm so glad you all have each other. I know, Rotem, when you had surgery, you asked to keep the bullet that was removed from you.

R. MATIAS: Yes.

HARLOW: Why?

R. MATIAS: I want to just keep it as a memory to never forget them. And remember that even though it was the hardest and lowest point in my life, I found there is some hope that maybe I could live and share their memories and how I saw my parents with other people. They won't die there. They won't die. They will live on in memories and in stories.

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HARLOW: That's right. Ilan, what a family you have. And I know you are so deeply grateful for them as you experience the anguish of losing your daughter. Your thoughts this morning.

TROEN: These kids are terrific. Yes, I'm sure you can see and everybody who's watching can see. What their parents did, Shlomi and Deborah, was very seriously, systematically, lovingly, and with great care and intelligence, create a family. Their life wasn't always so easy, but they overcame whatever obstacles they had in creating an absolutely beautiful family. A family that played together. That sang together. That she had hopes together. And, you know, felt responsible for one another. And was, I think, taking place here now is the beginning of building on those bonds that was so well established by their parents and enabling them to assist one another as they go forward in life, and they don't have to do it alone. And that's why I'm here. I represent five of the brothers and sisters, and I represent, I think, 16 cousins so far, and a parcel of great grandchildren.

The family is growing and it will live, and as Rotem has suggested, he wants to remember them living and sharing somehow in the lives that they will have. It's a large task, but we're up to it.

HARLOW: Your bond is so clear, even from this distance. Thank you all for being with us and may the memory of your parents be a blessing.

R. MATIAS: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Just moments ago, Secretary of State Antony Blinken alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu comparing Hamas' brutality to the worst of ISIS.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Babies slaughtered, bodies desecrated, young people burned alive, women raped, the parents executed in front of their children, children in front of their parents. How are we even to understand this? To digest this?

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MATTINGLY: Visceral in its nature. Blinken arrived this morning in Tel Aviv to show the U.S. commitment to Israel after last weekend's attack, and to help efforts to secure the release of roughly 150 hostages taken by Hamas, some of them believed to be American.

He is soon expected to head to Jordan, where tomorrow he will meet with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Abdullah.

Joining me now from the White House is Principal Deputy National Security Advisor John Finer. John, I appreciate your time. I want to start with where Poppy left off and a very powerful interview, the death toll the secretary announced has gone up again from 22 to 25. You guys have expected that awful as it is.

Do you have any more information about the number of Americans who are detained or could be held hostage right now and their condition?

JON FINER, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I don't have any more detailed information about that other than that is the number one area of focus for our embassy, for the experts who we have sent to the region to consult with their Israeli counterparts and advise them on hostage recovery efforts. And, you know, this is obviously an area of great concern to all of us, people who are stuck in this situation, it is about the worst condition that you can imagine being taken from a place where you're either traveling or live and dragged across the border into a hostile situation like this

And so, this will remain an area of core focus and a focus of Secretary Blinken's meetings while he is in Jerusalem today.

MATTINGLY: Jon, I think another focus of the secretary's meetings throughout the course of this trip will be potential for humanitarian corridors or passages. Also, there are several hundred American citizens in Gaza right now. There's been a lot of conflicting accounts of what's happening in Rafah, the border crossing, and what Egypt's role has been. I know you guys have been consulting behind the scenes.

What is the status? Is that open? Should Americans in Gaza go there?

FINER: It's important to keep in mind that there are on the order of 2.3 million people who live in Gaza, a very difficult living conditions in the best of times. And this is pretty far from the best of times. And so, as the president said yesterday, this is a topic of direct conversation between the United States and the government of Israel. We are talking about options like humanitarian corridors and safe zones, options for people to be able to get out of Gaza, if they can.

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You know, the President has been clear that democracies like the United States and Israel are strongest when they operate according to the rule of law and the laws. And this will be an ongoing area of focus between us and them as we continue to work through this very challenging operational environment in which the Israeli military will be fighting.

MATTINGLY: Jon, there have been some reports that Egypt had rejected the idea of a broader humanitarian corridor. Is there any truth to that?

FINER: I will keep our conversations with the government of Egypt private. But I will say that the best option, most likely the only option for people to get out of Gaza, will be through the Rafah Crossing, which leads into Egypt. We believe that we will be able to work with the government of Egypt on an arrangement that will have to be negotiated with the government of Israel as well, and this is something that we are focused on in real-time, hour by hour, and day by day.

MATTINGLY: Jon, the secretary echoed what we heard from the president, both in the strength, I think, of his support and unity with the Israeli people, with Prime Minister Netanyahu, but also, in talking about the need for moral clarity and talking about trying to separate the Palestinian people from Hamas. Do you believe that those calls are being heeded by the Israelis as they plan a military operation?

FINER: Look, I'd say a few things. Again, 2.3 million people in Gaza. The vast majority of them have absolutely nothing to do with this conflict. I spent time in Gaza in 2009 during another war there. It made an impression on me just how challenging and how difficult people's lives are there, particularly in a situation like this, under, you know, a military operation. And so, the fact that we're even having this conversation though, I think is the important part, the fact that this is a subject, not just between staff on the U.S. side and the Israeli side, between -- but between the prime minister and the president is a stark difference from how Hamas operates.

Hamas crossed into Israel with the expressed goal of killing as many Israelis, military, civilians, they didn't care. And now, they have retreated into their territory, into the Gaza Strip with no objective at all of avoiding damage to their civilian population from what is to come.

So, the fact that this conversation is happening is important. We will largely keep the details of it private, but it'll be an ongoing area of direct dialogue between the United States and Israel.

MATTINGLY: Jon, it's a great point. You were there in 2009 and one of the two Israeli incursions into the country, I think that one was 15 days, this one is -- Israeli officials have said will be much larger and the difficulty and complexity that comes with it.

A longer-term question, if I may, when Prime Minister Netanyahu talks about eliminating Hamas, crushing Hamas akin to what was done with ISIS, what happens next? It is the governance structure in Gaza, what fills the vacuum there?

FINER: So, that is a very challenging question. Governance of Gaza has been extremely challenging since Hamas took over back in 2005, 2006. And this is another area that we will be directly consulting with the Israelis on. We probably have some time. This is an operation that is likely to unfold over weeks, if not longer. That's what the Israelis have said. But the future governance of Gaza is one of the many significant challenges associated with the current situation.

The problem is that Hamas has proven themselves unfit, unable to govern this territory in a way that can be acceptable to the Israelis, given what has just happened. That is what the Israeli government is saying and it is now going to be the next challenge after this complicated military operation is completed, and we're probably a long way from that, to figure out what the future of governance there looks like.

MATTINGLY: The message of deterrence, which has been shown both by actions and by words from the president, the secretary of state, just about everybody across the administration, just saying flatly, don't. There are a number of different players in the region, all with very specific interests here. If that warning is not heeded, what is the U.S. response?

FINER: So, one thing that the President doesn't do and that none of us are going to do on his behalf is sort of telegraph our next move or telegraph our punches. It is quite clear to anyone who might consider getting involved in this conflict that the United States has considerable capabilities at our disposal, not just the carrier strike group that has been moved into the region, but a significant force posture that exists in the region at all times. Beyond that which we believe sends an unmistakable message, I'm not going to get into what we might do in a hypothetical situation.

MATTINGLY: All right. Jon Finer, the principal deputy national security advisor, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

FINER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And "CNN This Morning" continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

HARLOW: We are glad you are with us as we continue to follow the breaking news. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett live near the Gaza border.

MATTINGLY: It is 8:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 3:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, where moments ago, Secretary of State Antony Blinken vowed to stand behind and beside Israel as its war with Hamas intensifies.

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