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IDF: Israel Preparing for "Next Stage" of War; CNN Team Reports as Howitzers Fire Barrage of Artillery into Gaza Strip; Potential Tactical Challenges of Urban Warfare in Gaza; Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Make Joint Statement Regarding Israel's Pending Invasion of Gaza to Destroy Hamas; Over 100 People Including Children Killed by Hamas in Israeli Kibbutz Near Gaza Border. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 12, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: It is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 3:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, where moments ago Secretary of State Antony Blinken vowed to stand behind and beside Israel as its war with Hamas intensifies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Hamas has only one agenda, to destroy Israel and to murder Jews. Israel has the right, indeed the obligation to defend itself and to ensure that this never happens again. As the prime minister and I discussed, how Israel does this matters.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: And just as ISIS was crushed, so, too, will Hamas be crushed. And Hamas should be treated exactly the way ISIS was treated.

Thank you, America, for standing with Israel, today, tomorrow, and always.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And this all comes as Israel continues to strike Gaza with artillery and those airstrikes. Also cutting off supplies to food, power, and water until the hostages are released. Secretary of State Blinken urging Netanyahu to take every precaution to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza as Israel responds. And the humanitarian crisis there in Gaza is growing more dire. We know up to 150 hostages that includes Americans still being held captive.

Let's go to Erin Burnett. She joins us again in Ashkelon. Erin, what can you tell us?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: We understand, obviously, those hostages right now, whereabouts unknown, status of any negotiations unknown. We do know, Poppy, that the Israeli defense forces are telling us that they believe that those hostages are being kept in various locations, most likely in tunnels under the ground by Hamas, places that they have not known Hamas to use before. So they do seem to have a feel and a sense for the situation. But they are not in one place, and that, obviously, complicates what you are dealing with right now.

As you referred to it, the airstrikes throughout the morning on Gaza. You hear those thuds in the distance from where we are now, and a lot of fire back and forth from south of here just along that Gaza border. We are also understanding as Israeli Defense Forces, Phil and Poppy, are clearly building up and posturing for a possible ground assault, a full ground assault on Gaza, we don't just know that there's about 300,000 being massed along that border. We also know that Israeli Defense Forces are sort of pushing that border out to create essentially a buffer zone for military operations.

So a lot of those areas that had been attacked, kibbutzim by the Hamas militants over the weekend, pushing out that barrier bit by bit to keep it for Israeli military use as they, obviously, are clearly in a position, in position and preparing for an assault. And we are hearing that, you hear that from Nic Robertson miles from where we are, that back and forth, heavy artillery strikes on Gaza, we can hear those thuds now, all of that going throughout the day here as it's right now midafternoon here in Israel.

MATTINGLY: Yes, Erin, significant uptick not just in airstrikes, but also as you were laying -- Nic was laying out, the use of artillery. A split screen, you couldn't see it, Erin, but we were showing the port next to Gaza City where it looked like there had been a strike on some of the ships or boats in that area as well. You're looking at it right now.

Erin, I would ask, you were listening to the secretary of state and the prime minister. At this moment where it feels like everything is on the brink, and I think Israeli officials have been clear to you, have been clear to us, that is definitely the case. What was your takeaway from those remarks?

BURNETT: Well, there was no daylight between the two in how they described the atrocities that happened. Obviously, the words from Prime Minister Netanyahu came from, sort of, deep. They came from deep. This is a profound impact for him and the existence of this country where I am standing now. So for him, use of words, "evil," "barbarians," different from Secretary Blinken. But the same description of the atrocities, the acts, that there were people burned alive, that parents were executed in front of their children, children in front of their parents. So they were very clear, no daylight, the U.S. has Israel's back.

But I do think what you just played there as we began this hour from Secretary Blinken is also very significant, Phil. How Israel does this matters. That while the United States unequivocally has Israel's back, and he said that, we have your back, how Israel does this matters. So there is a distinction between Hamas, a repressive terrorist group ruling Gaza, and the civilians of Gaza.

Now, of course, that distinction, as you know, that distinction is one that is impossible on the ground to draw because they are living amongst each other so densely packed in Gaza city, and that is the challenge that they face as the troops mass along the border. The force of Israel overwhelming, right? But what do you do when you go in with that force, Phil?

[08:05:03]

MATTINGLY: All right, Erin, thank you very much. Stay with us. We're going to come back to you in a moment.

I want to get straight to CNN's Clarissa Ward who is live for us, and she spent the day at one of the hard-hit kibbutzim not far from the border. Be'eri is a farming community where about 1,000 people lived. And Saturday morning, more than 100 were murdered. Clarissa, what did you see there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, I think it's interesting that it took almost four days before the Israeli military even finally let journalists to Be'eri kibbutz, and that's because they had been fighting pitched battles there, really struggling to control and contain that situation. And the scenes of destruction that you see when you arrive at Be'eri are just mind- blowing, frankly. But really, it was the conversations we had with some of the survivors who have been moved to a hotel a couple of hours away that are the most chilling and most haunting. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WARD: It was 7:11 a.m. Saturday morning when the militants arrived at Be'eri kibbutz. Surveillance footage shows them lying in wait until a car arrives. They shoot the driver and enter the compound. More poured in on motorcycles, eerily at ease and in no apparent hurry.

Thomas Hand heard the gunshots and immediately thought of his eight- year-old daughter Emily, who was staying with a neighbor.

THOMAS HAND, RESIDENT: She doesn't do it very often, but unfortunately that night, that particular night, the Friday night, she went to sleep at her friend's house.

WARD: For 12 hours, he says he was pinned down under heavy gunfire unable to reach his daughter as Hamas went door-to-door executing his neighbors.

HAND: Waiting. I'm thinking the army are going to be here soon, you know, just hold on a bit longer. And longer. And longer.

WARD: By the time the military gained control of Be'eri, this is what remained of the once tranquil community. Late Wednesday afternoon Israeli forces let journalists in for the first time after days of pitched battles.

MAJ. GEN. ITAI VERUV, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: I saw houses, soldier fight here, and I fight here myself in the first -- only to get in kibbutz, only to come from apartment to apartment. It took a lot, a lot, a lot of time.

WARD: Does that weigh on your conscience to know how long it took? VERUV: You know, we have a very difficult question to ask ourselves.

Now, we look forward to defense that came into take the survival and to switch ourselves from defense to offensive operation. I'm sure that wWe ask ourselves all the difficult questions of date.

WARD: For now, there are more pressing questions. The bodies of more than 100 residents have been recovered. But the army says that many more are still missing.

You can see the amount of blood. This was a massacre. And the full scale of the horrors that transpired here are just starting to come to light. Pictures, family photographs on the wall.

Thomas waited two agonizing stays days before getting the news.

HAND: I just said we found Emily, and she's dead. And I went, yes. I went, yes, and smiled, because that is the best news of the possibilities that I knew. That was the best possibility that I was hoping for, she was either dead or in Gaza. And if you know anything about what they do to people in Gaza, that is worse than death. That is worse than death, the way they treat you. They'd have no food. They'd have no water. She'd be in a dark room filled with Christ knows how many people, and terrified every minute, hour, day, and possible years to come. So death was a blessing, an absolute blessing.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WARD: Tom, after saying that, Poppy and Phil, he looked at me and he said, what kind of a crazy world are we living in that a father would say something like this?

[08:10:03]

But this is the reality as we are experiencing it. He said that many people in that kibbutz feel the same way, but, obviously, hard for anyone, let alone any parent, to really wrap their heads around the enormity of something like that.

And I should add that the Be'eri kibbutz now has become a staging ground for an artillery brigade. That whole area now, as you heard and have been reporting on this hour, has been turned into a sort of no-go military zone as everybody waits. The specter, obviously, of a potential ground invasion continuing to grow, and people here just waiting to see what the next day will bring. They have been steeled for the fact that this is going to be a long fight, that it is not going to be an easy one, but still so many questions as it to what shape it takes next and what that means for the hostages who remain, many of whom are from that kibbutz Be'eri.

HARLOW: Clarissa, Emily, I think, really embodies what we just heard echoed from, as we look at her here, from prime minister Netanyahu and Secretary Blinken when they described in detail the young lives brutally taken that day. I wonder if Tom, her father, said anything to you about what he hopes to see -- nothing can bring his daughter back, but in response in her memory? WARD: He didn't talk so much about what he hopes to see. He did talk

about the fact that there were other children believed to have been killed in that kibbutz. They haven't yet been identified yet, which makes it, obviously, much more difficult to know the exact details, the exact numbers. And I would just say more broadly that there has been a real lack of clarity, and that may be due to continued confusion around the issue of how many people were killed versus how many people were captured versus how many people may still be alive. So he really in this moment, I think, is focused on being strong for his two older children who are flying from overseas to be with him now. But let's be clear. As you saw, he is a broken man, and there are other parents going through that same pain.

HARLOW: Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.

Let's go back to Erin. She joins us now in Ashkelon, Israel, near the border. You know, Erin, you were the one who pointed out to us the importance of those remarks from both Secretary Blinken and from Netanyahu this morning, the importance of saying those things out loud in unison, and then Clarissa's reporting there with Emily's father exemplifies that.

BURNETT: Yes, I mean, it is impossible to comprehend, and the loss. Talking to parents who are losing their children, it is impossible to truly comprehend what they are going through, and the true shock that they feel. Even as the world is focused on what they will do next and how they will respond, the profound shock and loss and brokenness that people here feel.

Right now, there are huge clouds of smoke over Gaza. Again, ongoing strikes throughout this day. It is now midafternoon here in Israel near that Gaza border, but those huge plumes of smoke from Israeli Defense Forces strikes across Gaza.

Tal Heinrich joins me now. She is the spokesperson for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And Tal, I very much appreciate your time. Looking at these images over Gaza, hearing the thuds -- actually, we just heard one right now as I'm speaking to you, of explosions in Gaza, do you anticipate this continuing at this rate these sorts of non-stop strikes on Gaza as Israel continues to build its forces up along the border?

TAL HEINRICH, NATIONAL PUBLIC DIPLOMACY DIRECTORATE REPRESENTATIVE, ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE: Erin, we do not know how long this operation in Gaza will take. We are very clear about our goals in this counteroffensive taking place right now.

First and foremost, we said that we want to make sure that Israel's territory is secure, that all of the territories under Israeli control true, and also that the border fence is protected. We have managed to reach this. But as you know, and you are following the reports, I know that CNN is covering it, there are certain attempts to try to infiltrate, if it's from the north, we've had over the past several days. So that is our first goal.

Our second goal is to make sure that Hamas, by the end of this war, will have neither the military capabilities nor the motivation to hurt us as they did in the coming decades.

[08:15:00]

And our win, our victory by the end of this, and again, it will take as long as it will take, as the prime minister said. We will be remembered for the generations to come.

BURNETT: Tal, you mentioned the north, and obviously there have been reports of skirmishes, rockets from the north. There were also reports from the IDF, right, that there have been rockets launched from Syria, and today reports of Israeli reprisals on targets inside Syria.

From your understanding right now, are these opportunistic attacks coming from the direction of Syria and Hezbollah in Lebanon, or is there any coordination between any of these?

HEINRICH: I cannot comment on the specifics of these reports that you just mentioned, but as President Biden said, as Prime Minister Netanyahu said, we tell our enemies not only Hamas in the southern front, but also in the north and other state actors like Iran, do not try us.

Secretary Blinken just said it in a shared statement in the press conference with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He said, it's very simple, don't. And we hope that they're getting this message loud and clear because Israel is ready, the IDF is ready.

Everyone in this country either knows someone who is a soldier, knows someone who's been abducted, knows someone who's been hurt, injured, knows someone who was killed. We are a nation in deep mourning right now, but our resolve is very clear.

This is time for moral clarity. Both the secretary said it, Prime Minister Netanyahu said it, and we know what we're doing, and we're coming after them. We will make sure that they will lack the motivation to hurt us again.

BURNETT: Tal, it has also -- we understand that Israel has made it clear that there will not be electricity, there will not be fuel, no supplies for Gaza until the hostages are released. Can you report any progress on negotiations with Hamas?

Obviously, there's only so long a civilian population could go without those things, without grievous loss and humanitarian crisis. Is there anything that you can tell us about the status of the hostages?

HEINRICH: Well, I cannot expand on the status of the hostages, but what I can tell you is that we call on Hamas to release the hostages unconditionally. And the Prime Minister was very clear, they should not dare to try to hurt the hostages. We are going to win this war, and Hamas is going to pay a very heavy price.

Both the prime minister and the secretary, by the way, if you listen carefully to his statements, compared Hamas to ISIS, and this is exactly what this war is about. It's a war between the civilized world represented by Israel here and Hamas's savages. BURNETT: Tal, a follow up to that, though, of course, Secretary

Blinken also said, while he completely made those -- compared to ISIS and said the United States has Israel's back. He also said how Israel does this matters, that striving for a different standard and a value in human life is what distinguishes a democracy from the forces of terror that were just unleashed upon Israel.

When it comes to Gaza, do you have any confidence that you will be able to distinguish between innocent people, innocent children there, and Hamas operatives, if it comes to Israeli forces on the ground in Gaza?

HEINRICH: Erin, the IDF has been very clear, and the prime minister said it, that we call on Palestinians in those areas from which Hamas operates, from where it has its military depots and strongholds, to move out of these areas. They know where these areas are.

We know that they know where these areas are. We're calling on them to evacuate and every kind of byproduct of this war is related to Hamas directly.

BURNETT: All right, Tal, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Tal Heinrich, of course, as we said, is the spokesperson for the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

Poppy and Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right thank you, Erin Burnett. We're definitely going to be coming back to you, so stay with us. Meantime, hundreds of thousands of Israeli troops massed near the Gaza border with tanks and artillery. Prime Minister Netanyahu vows to crush Hamas.

We're going to break down the urban warfare challenges Israeli forces could face in a potential ground incursion. Stay with us.

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Just moments ago, our CNN team saw several Howitzers firing a barrage of artillery into Gaza from outside Sderot on Thursday. CNN's International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson, filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, early this morning there was a salvo of rockets coming in from Gaza. The Iron Dome defense shield intercepted them. However, one property was hit. We understand that there were some civilian casualties at that property, but where we're at located right now, just outside of Sderot, about 3 miles, I would say two to three miles from the border from this location to Gaza.

And what you're looking at here is Israeli Defence Force heavy howitzers firing artillery shells into Gaza at Hamas targets in Gaza. This is a very big concentration of Israeli firepower here. We covered the situation in Gaza in 2021, where there was an exchange of artillery fire rockets by Hamas. This is on a scale just waiting for that explosion there.

This is on a scale much bigger than we're seeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was our Nic Robertson reporting. We'll get back to him soon. These are live pictures of Gaza City. In the middle of the afternoon, there are smoke plumes rising and potential ground incursion which raises so many questions about the challenges of urban warfare.

Let's bring in CNN Military Analyst, Former Member of the Joint Staff of the Pentagon, Colonel Cedric Leighton, and Israeli Special Operations Veteran and Law Enforcement Trainer Aaron Cohen, back with us at the table. That is the incredibly complex task ahead, Colonel, is not only urban warfare but urban warfare with 150 hostages. And now and we'll get into this with Aaron.

[08:25:00]

Israeli operatives are also inside of potentially undercover inside Gaza.

COLONEL CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, absolutely, Poppy. And you're looking at so many different things here, but the real things that we have are those challenges that you talked about. So, first and foremost, you've got all kinds of things that the Hamas, or anybody else for that matter, who is opposing the Israeli forces as they're coming in, could do.

So, we've got rockets that could be fired at them. You've got drones that could observe them. Of course, you could do counter-drone activity against us, and you could have your own drones, which the Israelis certainly do. Then, most importantly, you have tunnels.

And I know Aaron mentioned some of this earlier, but there are going to be a lot of tunnels in Gaza. It's not just in the border area, but throughout the city of Gaza and in other areas. Tunnels are very, very important for their defenses and possibly as locations where the hostages are.

Anti-armor attacks are possible they're going to use snipers. Look at, for example, buildings like this one that would be a perfect window for a sniper to shoot from. And that's the kind of thing that you're looking at.

And of course, using the hostages as human shields, those are the critical elements that the Israeli Forces are going to have to really consider as they go in and move forward with every facet of this operation.

MATTINGLY: Aaron, there is a reason why there has been a reticence to launch Incursions. There have only been two, I think, 2008, 2009, and 2014. They've, I think, 15 and 19 days. This is going to be, according to Thief, much larger, and take a lot more time.

And to the colonel's point, there are hostages by the dozens involved here. The level of preparation the IDF has for this kind of fighting, given the dynamics, how extensive is it?

AARON COHEN, ISRAELI SPECIAL OPERATIONS VETERAN: Well, Israel has a lot of experience with urban warfare, and what that means is 90-degree angles. Every angle is a point of cover, every angle is a place to stay concealed. So, every room has a dead corner when you walk into a room.

And what Israel is really, really good at did a lot of this in my unit, which operates plain clothed and in a SWAT capacity if you will. When you're going after terrorists is are able to move around those angles with the least amount of exposure possible.

And with the most amount of cover so that you have good shots and I don't mean to be graphic, but have straight shots with 90% of your body covered. And Israel invented a room entry system called "Limited Penetration."

And it allows the Israeli operatives from the four major special operations units which are the General Staff Reconnaissance Unit Bibi's Unit, the Entebbe Unit, and the Shaldag which is the Air Force Special Operations Unit. Shaldag in English means "Kingfisher."

So, imagine those missiles that are coming down strategically and selectively, there are guys on the ground putting those missiles into those Hamas infrastructure buildings so as to reduce collateral damage to civilian buildings.

Remember, Hamas is going to bring civilians to those rooftops and essentially, they're trapping them in Gaza. That's a separate company we'll get to that. The other unit is the Israeli Shayetet Shaloshisl, which is the S13 or the Israeli Seals.

That unit is conducting reconnaissance operations right now along that coastline to be able to map the car's topography so that we can feed that back to the Givati Brigade, which is staged with those 300,000 reservists on that border with Gaza.

And then you've got other elements combined. But that limited penetration room-clearing technique, which all of these special ops' units are trained in, allows an Israeli Special Forces operative to clear 90% of the room without ever having to step foot in it. And why is that important for terrorists? Because they will booby-trapped. They want Israel to get sucked into this monster vacuum.

And so, these techniques have been designed specifically to do what's, what we call in Hebrew a "Zira" or a safety clear, but they have to do it quickly. It's a lot of training, but it allows these guys to be able to fight safer. And so that's a big piece of how they're going to go into Gaza and be able to clear these pockets.

Do it safer, but do it with a high degree of aggression. Aggression is a tactic, it has to be, especially when you're getting pulled into this pressure cooker. So that limited is a big one, and all these units are getting ready to deploy that.

MATTINGLY: Aaron Cohen, we appreciate your expertise. Colonel Leighton, thank you as well. President Biden warning Iran, to quote.

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