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Israel Warns Half of Gaza to Evacuate 'Southwards'; IDF Readies Operations Against Hamas at Israeli Airbase; Two Top U.S. Officials in the Middle East. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 06:00   ET

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[06:00:21]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow in New York with Phil Mattingly. It is 6 a.m. here on the East Coast, 1 p.m. in Gaza, where the Israeli military is warning more than 1 million civilians to evacuate South as the war with Hamas intensifies and hundreds of thousands of Israeli troops mass on the border.

What you're looking at is new video of leaflets being dropped over Gaza City. Hamas militants are urging people there to defy the orders and to stay in their homes.

But we are seeing some Palestinians heeding that warning. Families with small children are walking South, carrying whatever they can.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And this morning Israeli forces have continued to hit Gaza, and Hamas is now claiming air strikes have killed 13 hostages. Those hostages abducted, they say, during last weekend's massacre.

Israeli military saying it cannot confirm or deny that claim.

Meanwhile this morning, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is in Tel Aviv to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. You see him there arriving earlier this morning.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken was in Tel Aviv yesterday. He met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Jordan. We have team coverage with correspondents on the ground in Israel.

Let's start with Becky Anderson in East Jerusalem. Becky, there's a large Palestinian population where you are. Hamas has called for a day of rage. What's the scene right now?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are between two gates here in East Jerusalem. And the road behind me here -- and I'll just get you a shot, which has got an awful lot of Israeli security forces.

But we are not seeing the Muslim worshippers yet who will come down this road, those who have been at the al Aqsa Mosque today for Friday midday prayers. Now we -- reports suggest that the Israeli security forces have been

selective on age. As we understand it, only those over the age of 60 have been allowed into what is this extremely contentious compound.

The Temple Mount, Haram al-Sharif, is this contentious site which houses, of course, the holiest site in Judaism, the al Aqsa, which as you've heard, the holiest site in Islam, and of course, the site revered by Christians.

And it is the real flash point over the years, and marks a real moment, always, in this conflict. So, things are relatively quiet. I have to say, the courtyard, we were overlooking that courtyard during Friday prayers. It was empty.

You would normally see that awash with Muslim worshippers, those from the West Bank who, today, are not allowed into East Jerusalem and indeed youngsters from here.

So -- so fewer people, many, many fewer people allowed into that compound today to pray. We await to see what happens next. We hope things will be contained here.

But that's -- that's the story here.

As far as Gaza is concerned, we just bring up the map to show where this evacuation order is by the IDF. I mean, the question is, where do these people go to in -- in Southern Gaza?

The Rafah border closed to those who want to get out of Gaza, so there is no exit at this point.

And you're reporting on where the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, is at present is really important, because he's been here. He's been to Jordan. He's met the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, there with King Abdullah.

He is now doing the rounds to the UAE, to Saudi, to Qatar, to Egypt, trying to get the region on board with some sort of plan that they can sort of bring to the Israelis to say this is a stopgap, short-term solution to sort of deescalate what's going on at present.

I mean, we have to hope that the secretary of state, Antony Blinken can get -- you know, can get the region on board, which is absolutely petrified -- the region that is -- about an escalation, of course, in all of this.

I mean, you know, you talk to anybody around the region, that you've heard this from King Abdullah, for example, and from the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, getting the Palestinian story back on the agenda is what is most important.

Let me just explain what we are seeing here. You know, some skirmishes. We've heard bangs this morning of stun grenades and a little bit of smoke.

But I want to be quite clear about this. I've been in this -- I've been in exactly this position during this conflict over the years, and the violence here was -- was really bad.

Today things are absolutely calm, within reason, few pockets of scuffles, but I'm not suggesting for a moment that the sort of -- the day of rage has become a violent day.

[06:05:09]

Of course, Hamas calling this -- calling this operation, this monstrous operation, the al-Aqsa Floods. That speaks to the name of the mosque at the compound, of course. They say that has been desecrated by Jewish settlers of late and by the storming of that mosque by Israeli forces over the years.

So that's the situation as things stand at present. As far as what's going on in Gaza is concerned, you can really only hope that there -- that there is some sort of short-term plan before what we expect to be a massive assault by the Israelis.

MATTINGLY: Becky, that's critical context based on where you are, tied to your years of experience there. We'll be coming back to you. Stay with us.

Let's go straight to CNN international correspondent Ben Wedeman. He is in Southern Lebanon.

Ben, the scale of this evacuation -- this call for evacuation by the IDF. It's estimated to be more than a million people. What's the plausibility of this actually happening?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's going to be very difficult, first of all, given the fact that the sheer number of people, perhaps 1.1 million people in a situation where there's very little fuel.

The number of people, where are they going to go? Where are they going to be housed? The U.N. and other international organizations in Gaza are saying it's simply not possible, given the number of people and the circumstances.

There's an active war. People are afraid to just move in the street. So moving 1.1 million people from Northern Gaza to the Southern part is something that's hard to imagine being done on practical terms.

Now, I've been in Gaza before. For instance, in 2014 the Israelis ordered the evacuation of civilians from Northern communities, ones near the Israeli border.

For the most part, people were able to do that, because you could get out by walking. You could get out by riding on a donkey cart, perhaps, if you could get a car ride out.

But that was relatively small numbers compared to Gaza City. Gaza City is huge. Where are you going to put all these people when you move them South when none of the relief supplies -- tents, food, water, medicine -- have been allowed into the Gaza Strip? It's very difficult to imagine how this could possibly be done. And Hamas is calling on people to stay in their homes, to stay put.

So, this is going to be very difficult, and certainly, if people do not or cannot evacuate those areas the Israelis are calling them to leave, and this ground offensive goes ahead, probability is, it will be a bloodbath.

MATTINGLY: Ben, quickly, from where you are, there's also been a call for the, quote, "day of rage" in Southern Lebanon. What are you seeing right now?

WEDEMAN: I'm going to step out of the camera for a minute so you can see.. This is a mosque in the Southern Lebanese town of Hana where they've called for a demonstration. People are still inside the mosque.

So you see the Palestinian flag on top, and these are Hezbollah flags around the mosque. However, interestingly there's no Lebanese flags here.

However, there is an Israeli flag. It's been painted onto the road so that anybody walking by can step upon it as an act of hatred, I suppose you could say.

But by and large, it's -- it's a situation where people are demonstrating, but the border in South Lebanon is quiet today. I actually had an opportunity to speak to the Lebanese information minister, who was going on a tour of the border area, and he downplayed the possibility that Lebanon will be drawn into this war.

He told me that he thinks the Israelis simply don't have the appetite to go to war again with Lebanon, and particularly with Hezbollah.

HARLOW: Ben Wedeman joining us in Southern Lebanon, Ben, thank you very much.

And joining us now to get more of these questions answered, IDF spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.

Colonel, thank you for your time again this morning, as always. I do want to ask you for confirmation on what Hamas is claiming, that 13 Israeli prisoners taken hostage during the weekend's attack, they are claiming they have been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombings.

Has the IDF confirmed those deaths?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, IDF SPOKESMAN: Obviously, I can't confirm those, and we have to be cautious with everything Hamas is saying. And their propaganda efforts are extensive.

This morning, we are continuing our activities against the Hamas terrorist organization and their infrastructure throughout the Gaza Strip.

[06:10:05]

Specifically, we are targeting special operations capabilities. We've taken out their drone capabilities. They had attack drones that were poised and prepared to be launched at Israel, but we've taken some of those out.

And we are continuing our effort to make sure Hamas can never, ever threaten Israel again. They cannot be permitted to do so.

HARLOW: We do not have confirmation of what Hamas was claiming there. Do you have any update on, Colonel, on the condition of all of the hostages, any of them that are being held?

LERNER: Well, to my knowledge, they've not -- not released any information except for disinformation, and are we -- and we're looking into it very cautiously.

The situation is as such we believe that Hamas are responsibility for the well-being of all of the hostages that they've taken, and they need to return them immediately. They need to release them to Israel. And they will pay the consequences for their actions.

The situation on the ground, obviously, is a complicated one. And we're taking -- operating in caution with regard to the hostage situation. And of course, it is influencing our operational game plan.

HARLOW: How is it influencing it? Is it causing the IDF not to take certain actions at this moment that it would otherwise take?

LERNER: I obviously won't elaborate on operational considerations, but definitely, it is part of the planning process. And we do need to take that into consideration.

HARLOW: OK.

LERNER: Our priority is to return them home as soon as possible.

HARLOW: The order from -- recommendation from Israel for about 1.1 million people, according to the U.N., to move out of Northern Gaza, there have been some reports of a time frame put on that. Is there a time frame that the IDF has put on that?

LERNER: So, the order is to evacuate immediately. And I would highly recommend that people adhere to that instruction, because the military is determined to take out Hamas's capabilities.

They operate from a stronghold within Gaza, in Gaza City, and they can no longer be permitted to utilize that area in Lebanon.

So I would say, yes, the idea is, in order to minimize and mitigate civilian casualties -- and this is what you've been asking us over the last couple of days. What about the humanitarian corridor. This is part of the humanitarian effort so that people will not be influenced more than they have to be in this conflict.

Hamas, unfortunately, is calling, on the other hand, no, people, do not evacuate. Stay and sacrifice yourself. Because that exemplifies exactly what we've been saying. Hamas has no regard for human life, Israeli or Palestinian. They will sacrifice everybody as they are proving time and time again.

HARLOW: The question is, is there a safe window for all of those people, a million plus people, to evacuate to the South? The United Nations says it is, quote, "impossible" for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences, as these air strikes continue.

LERNER: So here's what we do. When we saw a threat on the border with Gaza, we evacuated the people from the border with Gaza. What is Hamas doing? They're not doing anything. They're sacrificing them, telling them, no, stay put. The IDF isn't coming.

The IDF is operating. We are operating extensively. When they place their drone -- their offensive drones, their strike drones, their suicide drones on the roofs of houses, they're jeopardizing everybody in that house. They don't care.

So we're telling people, evacuate this area, because we are operating. We plan on broadening the scope of our operations in order to achieve our goal.

HARLOW: Colonel, I'm going to move on, but what I'm trying to understand is, is there a window of safety? The U.N. has said 24 hours, for example. Is there a window of safety when this evacuation --

LERNER: I would highly recommend that -- that the evacuation takes place immediately. The window of -- of the 24 hours that we're talking about is the highly recommendation, but it could go on beyond that.

HARLOW: OK.

LERNER: But I would say the instruction is -- is get up, and get out of the North of Gaza and Gaza City, and move to -- move to the South.

HARLOW: And just to be clear, though, move to the South, but there is still no crossing out of Gaza for them?

LERNER: Yes, we -- we're directing them exactly where we expect them not to be, where people in order to safeguard their own lives should move from. Not to -- not to go into Egypt or anything like that.

But they should not be in the area which we designated and have told them specifically. Now, this is like a forewarning of where we're operating, forewarning of where is going to be more extensive combat, where there are going to be more extensive strikes.

[06:15:03]

You know, this is -- this is the whole idea of trying to make -- safeguard people's lives.

The instruction to leave is to save people's lives so they should leave from the North of Gaza, from Gaza City and go to the South of the city, of the -- of Gaza Wadi, and they should -- they should set up there. If they stay, they are jeopardizing themselves. This is what I'm

trying to say. I know that there are concerns, considerations. There are problems, of course. I would say Hamas need to deal with all of those problems, of how to ship people from the North to the South, like we did.

We took people from their houses in the South of Israel, and we moved them elsewhere.

HARLOW: And then --

LERNER: And Hamas should have the responsibility. Rather than failing the people of Gaza, they should help the people of Gaza.

HARLOW: And then, Colonel, I think the question becomes, for how long can they remain in the South? Will an order like Israel has given in the North then come to them in the South? If there is no crossing that opens.

LERNER: Our operation is -- is focused towards Hamas, not to the people of Gaza, because the people of Gaza are not our enemy. The Hamas terrorist organization has butchered over a 1,200 people, and Israel cannot be permitted to govern the Gaza Strip and use it as a staging ground against Israel.

So when we recommend to the people of Gaza go to the South, you should listen. Go to the South. Do not stay in Gaza City. Do not stay in the North. And yes, everybody should listen to that recommendation.

HARLOW: I do want to ask you about a report this morning out of Human Rights Watch, which says that it has verified videos showing multiple air bursts of artillery fired with white phosphorus over the Gaza City port.

CNN has spoken to experts. We cannot categorically conclude that or independently verify that. But so people know, white phosphorus fire causes severe burns, often down to the bone that are slow to heal. That is according to the group.

Is the IDF using -- has the IDF used white phosphorus, Colonel?

LERNER: Categorically, no.

HARLOW: The question of the hostages. If, indeed, what Hamas is saying is true, elevates the concern about the level of intelligence for the IDF to be able to carry out its mission within Gaza.

Can you say, confidently, that your intelligence within Gaza is much stronger now than it was one week ago, that makes you more confident that as you carry out what is to come, it sounds like imminently from you, you can do so while protecting those hostage lives?

LERNER: We will put the priority of the well-being of the hostages, of course, at the top of our priority list. But we need to also balance out the needs of destroying Hamas's capabilities. So, of course, when we are considering mobilizing, and considering air

strikes, when we're considering special forces operations, we need to take all of those things into consideration.

Unfortunately, it is, again, it's Hamas that have set -- set the stage for this unfortunate development. They could end that and release them immediately, as we expect.

HARLOW: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you for joining us, especially at such a critical moment in all of this.

LERNER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: This morning Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is in Israel. He's there meeting with Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

HARLOW: Also, we have more on Israel's warning to all civilians in Gaza City -- You just heard us talking about this -- with this warning to immediately, you heard from the IDF colonel there, move South. We're going to talk about the U.N., saying it is impossible. So what does this mean? Much more ahead.

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[06:22:31]

HARLOW: Two very senior top U.S. officials are on the ground right now in the Middle East. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken as the U.S. pushes for diplomacy to prevent the Israeli-Hamas conflict from broadening.

This morning, Blinken is traveling to Qatar, after meeting with the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas. That meeting happened in Jordan earlier today.

He spent Thursday in Israel meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as he works to secure evacuations and the release of those Americans also held hostage in Gaza.

Secretary Austin traveled in Tel Aviv just a few hours ago. He arrived there a few hours ago. He will be meeting with Netanyahu and other high-ranking officials.

Our Alex Marquardt joins us live from Washington, D.C. I mean, such a show of how critical this is for the United States, to have both of them there with these key meetings at the same time. What can you share?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it really is. And that's the goal from both these men, is to -- really, to communicate this -- this solidarity with Israel as they retaliate against Hamas.

So Austin arrived today. You can see him there, getting off the plane, greeted by his Israeli counterpart. He's expected to speak momentarily.

He's also meeting with the Israeli war cabinet, as well as Prime Minister Netanyahu. The Pentagon and Austin have said for days that they're going to get Israel whatever it needs in terms of weapons.

The first American shipment of weapons has arrived in Israel already. The focus in terms of the weaponry is going to be more intercepts -- interceptor rockets for their extremely effective Iron Dome air defense system, as well as precision-guided munitions that Israel has been using and will continue to use to hit Hamas in Gaza.

But, guys, really, the focus here is, by both Blinken and Austin, to show that U.S. solidarity. These top-level Biden administration officials are not in Israel to call for peace or for a cease-fire. They're not asking Israel to show restraint. They really are there to show support for Israel's retaliation against Hamas.

MATTINGLY: Alex, U.S. officials are also trying to figure out how to address American citizens, both from Gaza, but also in Israel, if they want to depart. We're learning that charter planes may be sent to take American citizens home. How is that going to play out?

MARQUARDT: Well, this is one of the top priorities, of course, you can understand there are a lot of Americans in Israel who are trying to get home.

We know that the major American carriers -- Delta, American, United -- they have stopped flying because of security reasons.

[06:25:04]

So we understand from the State Department that today there will be charter flights available. They'll use Turkish airlines, Israeli airlines, other regional airlines to fly these American citizens first to Europe, and then from Europe, they will be able to -- to get onwards, to get on U.S. carriers from Europe onwards to -- to the states.

Of course, there are major concerns about Palestinian Americans, as well, who may be stuck in Gaza. And that's why Secretary Blinken is traveling around in the region, specifically to Egypt, because it's Egypt that will help the most in terms of creating a humanitarian corridor to get out of the Gaza Strip.

MATTINGLY: Yes. An intensive diplomatic process. Alex Marquardt for us in Washington, D.C. Thank you.

HARLOW: So this morning, Israel's military is warning, as you've heard, all civilians to leave Gaza City and head South. It is the clearest signal yet that Israel plans to intensify -- it sounds like very quickly -- its military operations in Gaza after those Hamas terror attacks over the weekend.

The U.N. calls the mass evacuation an impossible task that would have devastating humanitarian consequences. The Palestinian Health Ministry says more than 1,500 people have died so far in Gaza after days of Israel's air strikes in a total blockade without water.

With us now again this morning, military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

The U.N. says this is impossible. I'm not sure if you just heard the colonel from the IDF speaking with us, who said evacuate to the South immediately. And he did say that they would intensify their strikes. He didn't talk about a ground incursion.

But the U.N. says it's impossible. What do you see?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's going to be really difficult. Poppy, good morning to you.

Yes, when Peter Lerner was talking about this, he was talking about this area of evacuation right here. So this area is the Northern part of Gaza. It is the most densely populated area in this strip right here. So over 1.1 million people live right where my hand is.

Now, when you look at the possibilities here, we're talking about going down this way to the South, toward the Rafah crossing. So this is going to be a very, very difficult thing for -- for them to do.

The Rafah crossing is right on the Egyptian border right here. This is what it looks like when normal times, more or less normal times are present. It is a very difficult place to get to under these conditions because, quite frankly, the crossing is closed.

And it's going to be very hard for all the citizens of Gaza from the Northern part to not only go to the South but, if they're told to move out of Gaza, the Egyptians won't let them do that. So that's going to limit them. That's going to box these people in, in this Southern territory right here, which has its own issues, of course.

HARLOW: Just to follow-up, I mean, that is really key, the Rafah crossing in the South and what Egypt is going to allow or not allow.

And our reporting has been that the -- the White House, that the U.S. has been in these discussions about what Egypt may allow. With your experience in the region, do you think that changes? Do you think they open some safe passage for some amount of time for civilians into Egypt?

LEIGHTON: They might get a lot of pressure to do that, Poppy, and it's going to be really interesting to see how this -- how this might unfold.

The Egyptians have sometimes been inflexible diplomatically when it comes to things like this. They have a lot of reasons not to allow people from Gaza into their territory. Economic reasons, the overpopulation in certain areas. This is a very desolate part of Egypt that we're talking about here. It's the beginning of the Sinai Peninsula.

And it's not an area where there are a lot of -- there's a lot of infrastructure. There's basically no running water, no sewage system set up, no refugee camps set up.

So there's a lot of -- there are a lot of limitations here to what the Egyptians can physically do at this point in time. If that changes, if there's some massive tent city that's built up or something like that, then perhaps the Egyptians might let them in.

But to do that within a day or two, that's really hard, really difficult.

MATTINGLY: Colonel, if we could, could we step back for a minute to -- it's difficult, I think. It seems a little bit abstract: 1.1 million people evacuating immediately in the middle of a bombing and an air strike and artillery campaign.

But the other huge element here is just the population density, how closely packed residents are within this very, very small space. Can you give people a sense of what that actually looks like?

LEIGHTON: Yes, absolutely, Phil. So what you're seeing right here is -- this is Gaza City, about 583,000 people just in that particular area. But add all the other places right here, and then by the time you get to right about here, you've got a population of 1.1 million, which is basically half of the population of the entire Gaza territory. Now, that's this part right here. Now, when you get down to the South,

to Khan Yunis, which originally started as a refugee camp for --