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Happening Now: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin to speak in Israel; Interview with Israeli Special Operations Veteran and Law Enforcement Trainer Aaron Cohen; Interview with National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby; Half of Gaza Advised by Israel to Leave "Southwards"; Airstrikes Ended the Lives of 13 Israeli Hostages, According to Hamas; Scalise's Withdrawal from Speaker's Race has GOP in a Pickle. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

AIR FORCE COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER MEMBER OF JOINT STAFF, PENTAGON, AND FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR TRAINING, NSA: Yes, absolutely, Poppy. So, this is a usually significant development that the secretary of defense is with basically in tandem with the secretary of state in this region where there's so much going on, and where really the nexus of attention is on Gaza. But the reason that Gaza is so important is that it really is part of a larger issue that goes not only to the existence of Israel as a state, but it also goes to the fact that the various powers in the Middle East, everyone from Iran to Saudi Arabia to Syria, all of these powers have relations with other countries, including Russia and to a lesser extent China.

And it's very important for the U.S. to show itself as a present force in the Middle East. We've done so traditionally for many years, but now it becomes really important for us to continue to do that, especially during this time where it's such a stressful and critical time for the existence of Israel itself.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN THIS MORNING CO-ANCHOR: Colonel Leighton, we saw Secretary Blinken talk about the, kind of, mass diplomatic effort also the very, I think, point -- show of support, visible support. The secretary of defense being there, I think is coming at the same time more U.S. military aid is coming. How critical is U.S. military aid in the continuation of it to what lies ahead for Israel?

LEIGHTON: It's essential, Phil. Without U.S. military aid there will be no ability to -- for the Israelis to continue to fire into Gaza, either using air power or using artillery. So, it becomes really important for there to be a complete supply line. It's basically logistics being that critical factor, but it's also critical from an intelligence standpoint because the intelligence, although it's been listed as a failure in anticipation of the Hamas strikes against Israel, intelligence is critical. And where the United States shines often is in the tactical intelligence arena, and that is the kind of effort --

MATTINGLY: Colonel Leighton --

LEIGHTON: -- and those kinds of things become --

MATTINGLY: -- we want to interrupt you for a minute. Apologies. We want to listen to Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin in Tel Aviv.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Even during such terrible days, as a U.S. secretary of defense, I am here in person to make something crystal clear. America's support for Israel is ironclad, and I extend my deepest condolences to the Israeli people, for those killed or wounded in this terrible slaughter by Hamas. I'm also here in solidarity with all the families still living the waking nightmare of not knowing the fate of their loved ones. And we will continue to coordinate closely with Israel to help secure the release of the innocent men, women and children in the clutches of Hamas, including American citizens.

Now, Israel is a small country, a place where everybody knows everybody. And in times of trial, the intimacy of your society deepens the intimacy of your grief. But that's not a weakness, it is a profound strength. And in times of testing Israelis know what to do. Over this awful week, we've seen Israeli hotels and homes take in those who've had to flee. We've seen long lineups to donate blood. We've seen WhatsApp explode with messages as people race to support neighbors in anguish.

And perhaps because I'm a retired general, I was especially moved by the story of a retired general named Noam Tibon. His son called him on Saturday from his home near Gaza to say that Hamas terrorists had stormed their kibbutz and were closing in. And retired general jumped into his car in Tel Aviv and raced toward the combat zone, linked up with other fighters and rescued his son, his daughter-in-law, and his granddaughters.

And when the general arrived at their house, one of his granddaughters just said, grandpa is here. And these are rays of hope in a terrible week. And in times like these, sometimes the best set of -- the best thing that a friend can do is just to show up and to get to work.

[07:35:00]

Now, this is no time for neutrality, or for false equivalence, or for excuses for the inexcusable. There is never any justification for terrorism, and that's especially true after this rampage by Hamas. And anyone who wants lasting peace and security for this region must condemn and isolate Hamas. Hamas does not speak for the Palestinian people or their legitimate hopes for dignity, security and statehood, and peace alongside Israel.

As a former commander of central command, the deliberate cruelty of Hamas vividly reminds me of ISIS, bloodthirsty, fanatical, and hateful. And like ISIS, Hamas has nothing to offer but zealotry, bigotry, and death. The world has just witnessed a great evil. The deadliest attacks on civilians in the history of the state of Israel, and the bloodiest day in Jewish history since the end of the holocaust. So, make no mistake, the United States will make sure that Israel has what it needs to defend itself, and Israel has a right to protect its people. You know, in our many phone calls this week, President Biden has told Prime Minister Netanyahu that the United States would also respond swiftly and decisively to such a massive terrorist assault. And the president also underscored that democracies like ours are stronger and more secure when we uphold the laws of war.

Terrorists like Hamas deliberately target civilians, but democracies don't. This is a time for resolve and not revenge, for purpose and not panic, and for security and not surrender. At President Biden's direction, we have moved urgently to respond to this crisis and to send a strong message of deterrence. The USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group is now in the region, led by the largest aircraft carrier in the world. We've augmented U.S. fighter aircraft squadrons in the Middle East, and the U.S. department of defense stands fully ready to deploy additional assets if necessary.

As President Biden has said, for any country, for any group, or anyone thinking about trying to take advantage of this atrocity, to try to widen the conflict or to spill more blood, we have just one word, don't. The world is watching, and so are we. And we aren't going anywhere. We will remain in close contact with our valued partners across the region, and security assistance from the department of defense is already rapidly flowing into Israel. That includes munitions and air defense capabilities and other equipment and resources. It also includes more interceptors for Iron Dome to save Israeli lives, and we will continue to ensure that Israel has what it needs to keep itself secure.

Now, Hamas attacked at a time of global challenge. But the United States is the most powerful country in the world, and we remain fully able to project power and uphold our commitments and direct resources to multiple theaters. So, we will stand with Israel even as we stand with Ukraine. The United States can walk and chew gum at the same time.

And U.S. security assistance to Israel will flow in at the speed of war. And as this harrowing week draws to a close, and as shabbat draws near, we stand together and we stand strong.

[07:40:00]

The United States has Israel's back, and that is not negotiable and it never will be. And after this terrible week, I wish you and all the people of Israel shabbat shalom, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll be starting with the questions, starting with Alan Vanderbich (ph) channel 13.

ALAN VANDERBICH (PH), CHANNEL 13 REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Your presence in the Eastern Mediterranean clearly projects power, but should Israel be attacked from the north, from Hezbollah in Lebanon, will you be willing to exercise your force and join the fighting?

AUSTIN: You know, I ordered additional assets to the region to bolster deterrence. And again, the message that we would send to any country or group thinking to take advantage of this situation and widen the conflict, don't. I won't speculate on anything that could happen in the future. I will just tell you clearly that the United States will continue to support Israel's right to defend itself.

VANDERBICH (PH): Please, a question to the defense minister. (Speaking in a foreign language).

YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI MINISTER OF DEFENSE (through translator): What are you hoping to achieve and what is the end result of this? We will destroy the regime of Hamas. We will destruct their ability, their military ability. We will make sure that this threat is no longer on our borders. It will be long, it will be lethal, it will be powerful, and it will be for good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Matt Seyler, ABC.

MATT SEYLER, ABC NEWS REPORTER: Thank you both for doing this. Secretary Austin, U.S. administration has told Israel to avoid causing civilian casualties and to uphold what you called just now the laws of war. Given how Hamas fights, deliberately launching operations from dense civilian areas, how could Israel permanently end the terrorist threat posed by Hamas without inevitably risking many civilian lives? And as we watch the civilian death toll in Gaza rise while Israel conducts its counterattacks and perhaps a ground invasion, do you believe the moral culpability for those Palestinian deaths belongs to Israel, Hamas or both?

AUSTIN: I'll leave it to Israel to talk about its potential plans and its approach to conducting operations. Matt, I'll just say again that Israel has a right to defend itself, and we will support Israel's right to defend itself. We will continue to flow in security assistance. And I've worked with Israeli forces over the years, over many years. As you know, I wore a uniform for 41 years. My experience in working with the Israeli forces is they are professional, they're disciplined, and they are focused on the right things.

And so, I expect that going forward they will continue to exhibit that same degree of professionalism that we've seen in the past. But, you know, Matt, we've seen this before. The International Community fought ISIS, who would -- in some cases was embedded deeply in built-up areas. And that international coalition fought valiantly and protected civilians and created corridors for humanitarian movement, even in the midst of a pretty significant fight. So, again, this is a professional force, it is well-led, and I have every expectation that it will be disciplined.

SEYLER: Thank you. And for Mr. Gallant, have you seen evidence that Iran was directly involved in planning or executing the recent attack on your country or any signs that either Iran or its proxies are seeking to exploit the situation? And if you do come to see signs of an imminent attack on Israel, are you in favor of preemptive strikes?

GALLANT: Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas is one axis, an axis of evil. Everything is directed generally from Iran. The permission is given by Iran. The money is supplied by Iran. [07:45:00]

And the ideas are shaped in Iran. Therefore, it doesn't matter if they give or didn't give the permission, but the idea is an Iranian idea. As to the actions -- future actions of IDF, I will stay confidential for good reasons.

SEYLER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sulaiman Masabih (ph).

SULAIMAN MASABIH (PH), REPORTER: Mr. Secretary, thank you for this. House foreign affairs chair --

HARLOW: There you have a significant press conference ongoing after remarks from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, and Israel's defense minister as well. Very clear as it was from Secretary Blinken, Lloyd Austin saying America's support for Israel is ironclad. And he also said, in this time of testing, Israel knows what to do. We have team coverage of these remarks back at the table with us today, Israeli Special Operations Veteran Aaron Cohen, also Colonel Leighton with us.

Aaron, in those remarks from both of the men, which also I thought it was so notable that Lloyd Austin said this is no time for neutrality or false equivalence, being just so clear in where America stands and what America's prepared to do. What did you hear?

AARON COHEN, ISRAELI SPECIAL OPERATIONS VETERAN AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINER: What I heard was a proper line partnership that goes back years between the United States and Israel. We were conducting operations with the United States in a special task force, working together for almost a decade, things that nobody has been told. The moving of the equipment into the region is a testament to that. We're going to need the U.S. equipment to be able to tap into those signals to be able to continue to hunt for hostages, to be able to continue to hunt down terrorists.

You can see that the relationship is strong. The general is not playing around. He wanted to make it very clear to the world that the U.S. supports Israel and that relationship will not be shaken. So, you know, it was put out there, and you can see that the messaging was very clear.

MATTINGLY: Yes, the consistency and clarity from the president and his top officials over the course of the last five or six days has been notable, and to some degree something to behold. Colonel Leighton, the secretary made clear, I think his word was, the U.S. will fly in military aid at the speed of war. What does that mean? We've already seen shipments arrive. The administration has been unequivocal that that will be the case and will continue as long as it's necessary. But at the speed of war, what does he mean there?

LEIGHTON: Well, he means as quickly as possible, Phil. And, you know, when you look at speed of war, you're talking about how quickly it may take one of the, you know, carrier battle groups to come into this area. We already have the Eisenhower -- excuse me, the Gerald Ford in this area right here, the Eisenhower is moving into the region fairly close. So, there will be two carrier battle groups that are going to be associated with this conflict in one way or the other just through their very presence, and that, I think, becomes a critical thing.

So, the speed of war means as quickly as possible. And especially when it comes to supplying everything, munitions, intelligence, other supplies, medical supplies, all those kinds of things will be part of that.

MATTINGLY: All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, Aaron Cohen, stay with us. We'll certainly be coming back to you throughout the course of the morning.

HARLOW: White House National Security Council Spokesman John Kirby is with us. John, thank you very much, Admiral Kirby, for joining us. I want to begin, we just heard those very important remarks from Secretary Austin, and they continue. I want to begin with what Israel is directing people that live in Northern Gaza to do. They are saying go south. I think we have the sound. It might not be ready yet, but we spoke with the head of the -- one of the colonels of the IDF who told us immediately. He said the evacuation needs to take place immediately. This is more than a million people, and the U.N. says that's impossible. Does the administration think it is possible?

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, I think we're going to be careful not to get into armchair quarterbacking the tactics here on the ground by the IDF. What I can tell you is we understand what they're trying to do. They're trying to move civilians out of harm's way, and giving them fair warning.

Now, it's a tall order. It's a million people, and it's a very urban, dense environment. It's already a combat zone. So, I don't think anybody's underestimating the challenge here of affecting that evacuation, but it's pretty clear that what they're trying to do is to the maximum extent possible, avoid civilian casualties, and also separate Hamas from the human shields. I mean, Hamas actually gave a counterorder to telling Palestinians in Gaza to stay at home. Why? Because having human shields, they think, protects them.

[07:50:00]

HARLOW: John, isn't that a crucial thing to know for the point you just made, to be able to separate the innocent civilians from the terrorists? If there is not enough of a window to do that then are you putting those civilian lives at risk? I mean, we heard Secretary Blinken say yesterday, how Israel does these matters. So, my question is, does the administration think this immediacy makes it possible for those civilians not to be hit?

KIRBY: We think that there should be no civilian casualties, of course. And we have all argued now for several days that there ought to be safe passage out of Gaza for any civilians who want to leave. And, obviously, people who want to leave are going to require probably a little bit of transportation, certainly time to get their affairs in order and to make the move through what is a very dense -- densely populated and now a combat zone.

So, I mean, obviously, the more time that people have, the better. But I'd let the IDF speak to their -- the orders they are giving and to the operations that they are conducting and planning. I wouldn't be in a position here from the White House to do that, but obviously we don't want to see any civilians hurt.

HARLOW: So, let me ask you this then, would the administration deem that to include safe passage of civilians out of Northern Gaza before Israel carries out a ground incursion? Would anything --

KIRBY: Of course, we --

HARLOW: -- sort of, would that be palatable? Go ahead.

KIRBY: Of course. Look, we don't want civilians put in harm's way, obviously. So, as we've been arguing now for several days, we do support safe passage out of Gaza and certainly that includes the ability for people to move safely inside Gaza. These Palestinian people, they're victims, too. They didn't ask for this. They didn't invite Hamas in and say, you know, go hit Israel. So, we obviously want to see as much due concern for the civilians there in Gaza as it can be --

HARLOW: What about --

KIRBY: -- practically put in place.

HARLOW: What about their ability to leave? I mean, the Rafah Crossing and the southern border in Egypt remains closed. I know there have been --

KIRBY: That's right.

HARLOW: -- there have been discussions between the United States and Egypt and Israel about getting that open. Has there been any progress, John?

KIRBY: So far, it's still closed. But that doesn't mean we're not going to still try as hard as we can to talk to the Israelis and the Egyptians about getting it open and having some sort of safe passage out. It's just as important, Poppy, that we also continue to work to make sure that humanitarian assistance can get in.

HARLOW: Get in.

KIRBY: The United States has no intention of stopping our efforts to continue to deliver humanitarian assistance, but there has to be a path in, there has to be a path out.

HARLOW: So, let me just try to probe that a little bit more. Has the el-Sisi government been open at all to opening --

KIRBY: I'm not going to get in --

HARLOW: -- for a -- well, I think it's a really critical question. I am not asking for specifics. But open at all to a potential short window of exit for people from the south?

KIRBY: We're still actively talking to the Egyptians and to the Israelis and I think I'm just going to leave it at that.

HARLOW: OK. On the hostages' front, you said yesterday when you spoke to my colleague, Abby, that the U.S. simply does not have enough information about where the hostages are or even how many there are. And as I understand, the president is going to speak today with the families of those believed held. It has been nearly a week since they have been taken hostage. Has the intelligence within Gaza, whether it's from the Israelis or the Americans or combined improved more than it was a week ago, that would help on this front?

KIRBY: We're working at this very, very hard, very hour by hour. And I'm not going to get into intelligence matters. But we are certainly in direct communications with our Israelis counterparts. And obviously, the families too, have been a good source of information because some of them, you know, they saw their loved one being abducted or they know they've seen images of their loved one being abducted. So, they have been a significant and an important source of information as well. But what I told Abby last night, sadly, is true this morning. We just don't have enough information to develop any specific policy options one way or the other.

HARLOW: And I do want to give you an opportunity to comment on what Hamas is claiming that 13 of the hostages have been killed by what they're claiming are Israeli airstrikes. The IDF could not comment on that. I want to give the White House an opportunity if it knows anything?

KIRBY: Can't -- I can't confirm those reports. I have seen the statements but we can't confirm it.

HARLOW: You know, John, from yesterday afternoon to messages I just received from, you know, loved ones moments ago, some people are very scared in cities across America about what they could face today. I know you have said there are no credible threats. But I just wonder if you could speak to those people who are watching, who heard that day of anger comment from the former Hamas leader. What is your message to them as people get ready to send their kids to school and make decisions about their day?

KIRBY: Yes, I want them to know that President Biden and this administration is staying vigilant. And we were already days ago thinking about this exact potential and working with close -- closely with state and local authorities, connecting them with federal law enforcement and the intelligence community to make sure that we can identify and disrupt any potential threat.

[07:55:00]

Nobody should have to worry about going to school or work or recreation for their own safety because of antisemitic violence or violence that may be propagated by Hamas. We are on this. We are vigilant. We are watching this very, very closely. HARLOW: I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about the mess in the House because it really matters for increased funding for Israel. The president said this week in that very strong speech on Tuesday, he will call on Congress to act on Israel funding. There is no speaker. Who knows when there will be one. Is there a plan B?

KIRBY: Well, we're going to continue to work with Congress. I mean, there's -- you know, this is really on the House Republican caucus to figure out who their leader is going to be. A speaker of the house just procedurally is critical to moving legislation forward and to get additional funding, we need additional legislation. So, obviously, we urge that House Republicans to come to closure on this as soon as possible, elect a speaker so that we can actually get meaningful supplemental funding through the Congress and on to the president's desk. It's urgent. We need it. The Israelis need it. The Ukrainians need it.

HARLOW: Let's just going to say, you need it. The American people need it. The Israelis and Ukrainians as well. Thank you, John Kirby at the White House, very much.

KIRBY: You bet.

MATTINGLY: Well, you just heard Poppy asked Kirby about this, here in the U.S. the House is entering day 10 with no speaker after representative Steve Scalise dropped out late last night. We're going to tell you what the GOP's next steps are. You heard about the urgency. What's next, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Those are live pictures of the U.S. Capitol where things aren't exactly progressing in a quick pace. In just a few hours, House Republicans will meet again after Majority Leader Steve Scalise dropped out of the race for speaker just 24 hours after being nominated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: If you look at over the last few weeks, if you look at where our conference is, there is still work to be done. Our conference still has to come together and it's not there. There are still some people that have their own agendas. And I was very clear, we have to have everybody put their agendas on the side and focus on what this country needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Meantime, Jim Jordan, Congressman from Ohio, says he will announce today whether he will launch another bid for speaker after losing to Scalise in the conference. Today marks day 10 without a speaker of the House.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins us live from Capitol Hill. Lauren, what happens next here? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, that's the big question, Phil. Right now, what we can expect is 10:00 a.m. this morning, House Republicans are once again going to meet behind closed doors for a conference meeting where we expect that they will discuss the rules to govern their conference through the next phase of this speaker's fight.

Like you noted, Jim Jordan is expected to make an announcement at some point this morning about whether or not he will launch another bid for speaker or not. But there are already a number of Republicans who are making it clear that they may never back Jim Jordan. In fact, you heard yesterday from Ann Wagner from Missouri, as well as Austin Scott from Georgia, who argued that Jim Jordan is not the right candidate to lead the House Republican conference.

So, right now, the conference is deeply divided.

[08:00:00]