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IDF: 199 People Held Hostage in Gaza; Ship Carrying American Evacuees Set to Depart from Israel; Chaos and Confusion at Key Border Crossing; Israel to Evacuate Residents Near Border with Lebanon. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:15]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett live with us again in Tel Aviv, Israel. It is 6 a.m. here in New York, 1 p.m. in Israel, where right now Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Jerusalem. He is meeting once again with Israeli leaders.

And we're also looking at these live pictures of smoke billowing above Gaza City. A dire humanitarian crisis that's unfolding there at this moment.

And an Israeli ground offensive appears to be imminent this morning. Blinken said, just a short time ago, that the U.S. is, quote, "actively working to ensure that humanitarian assistance like water, food and medicine can get into Gaza."

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: The secretary of state also saying yesterday that a safe passageway into Egypt via the Rafah crossing would be open as half a million people have fled Northern Gaza for the South.

But overnight, those negotiations seem to have stalled. The Israeli prime minister's office saying, quote, "At the moment, there is neither a ceasefire nor humanitarian assistance in the Gaza Strip in return for the exit of foreigners."

President Biden toeing a thing line, saying that Israel must go after Hamas but also warning Israel against occupying Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Israel is going after a group of people who engaged in a barbarism that is as consequential as the Holocaust. And so I think Israel has to respond. They have to go after Hamas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point?

BIDEN: I think it would be a big mistake. Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and extreme elements of Hamas don't represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake to -- for Israel to occupy Gaza again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely?

BIDEN: Yes, I do. But there needs to be a Palestinian Authority, there needs to be a -- a path to a Palestinian state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also this just in. Israel now says 199 people are being held hostage in Gaza. That is the latest count. We're covering all of this, all around the world.

Let's begin with Erin. She's live in Tel Aviv. That is quite an increase from what they had thought before, in terms of those. I wonder if that also indicates, Erin, that their intelligence is getting a little bit better there.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Poppy, that's a really good point. Because as you point out, 199, that's about 50 more than they had been saying over the past few days.

And the number has been a bit amorphous, but 199 hostages that they say are still there.

Now, in conversations with Israeli military, they are honest that they don't know how many of them are alive or dead. The most detail they've given us on this is to say that they believe some of them may have actually died as they were being brought from Israel into Gaza. But that's the most we've been able to get.

While there have been reports that maybe a dozen hostages were killed in strikes, there has been no confirmation of that. We have absolutely no visibility on that, other than that we understand from the IDF that they're being held in tunnels sort of scattered around Gaza that Hamas has not been known to use before. That's still the very latest that we have on that.

But as you point out, a very significant increase. And Poppy, it could point out more intelligence. It could point out more negotiations going on, that they actually have a real sense of the number.

But it's impossible to really put -- put details around what it means. All we can say is that that number is a huge increase. And talking to some of those families, the heartbreak is truly horrible to hear.

MATTINGLY: And at the same time, you just heard explosions where you are a few moments ago. Can you tell us what happened?

HILL: Yes, so we heard some explosions. And frankly, we've been hearing quite a few explosions just over the past 12, 16 hours, I would say, that actually don't come along with air raid sirens.

And that's because the Israeli Iron Dome, the air-raid sirens, there's actually an app for it that you can follow. It's very specific as to where an exact risk of a hit is.

So when you hear a siren, you move fast. The rockets aren't traveling far. So you move very quickly to shelter, because it really could be a real risk to you. When you don't hear a siren, you may hear very loud booms and thuds, as we do. But it's because the Iron Dome, sort of with the math and the algorithm, have determined that -- that it isn't a risk to the direct location.

[06:05:12]

So we've heard plenty of those. Also Israeli helicopters, military helicopters have been flying over in these past few moments. And fighter jets, low and very audible. Sometimes they're a little higher up, Phil, as they go into Gaza for strikes. There have been lower, much louder ones in the early hours of dawn this morning.

And as you said, it's about 1 p.m. here right now. As we await for the possibility of a ground invasion, truly, at any time, keep in mind what those jets come with yesterday, 250 airstrikes alone just yesterday in Gaza.

So when we hear those jets, it is followed a few seconds later by an explosion and, of course, the devastation that that means in Gaza.

HARLOW: Erin, we know Secretary Blinken, U.S. secretary of state, back in Jerusalem today in Jerusalem, meeting with leaders there. All of this around these conflicting reports about that critical crossing, the only possible one at this point out of Gaza into Egypt, the Rafah crossing in the South.

What is the status of that being opened? It was supposed to be open for Americans this weekend.

BURNETT: Right. It was. And then, of course, it wasn't. And it is the topic of all of the negotiations.

Secretary Blinken obviously going to be talking about this here. He's been in Egypt with El Sisi there and having that conversation, as well. They want a humanitarian corridor. They want Americans out of Gaza. There are a lot of Americans and Palestinian-Americans in Gaza. And that is even separate, of course, from the broader humanitarian crisis you're talking about.

Secretary Blinken, obviously, was here on Friday and then was -- I'm sorry, on Thursday, and then was traveling through the United -- through the region, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, desperately trying for some sort of diplomacy.

Then coming back here, it was announced late yesterday. So he's here now in a meeting with the prime minister.

There was a congressional -- I'm sorry, senatorial delegation here last night. Senator Romney was here. Senator Kelly and Majority Leader Schumer.

And they told me -- I asked Senator Schumer why was Blinken coming back? Was the purpose of this perhaps to get Prime Minister Netanyahu to stall or to slow down, to bring this down a notch?

His view was no. That's not the purpose at all, that secretary Blinken is here primarily to try to keep diplomacy in the region on track but not to try to influence, in any way, the decisions that Netanyahu may make on the timing of this -- this anticipated ground invasion of Gaza.

And ahead of that, of course, you talk about the Gaza refugees and getting people out of there. There is, of course, a broader sort of evacuation going on in Israel itself.

A flight with nearly 300 Americans on board who were previously stranded in Israel actually left overnight. That flight went to Tampa, Florida overnight. We're also aware that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed an executive order for charter flights for Floridians trapped in Israel. And DeSantis was then there. It was a real publicity moment for him on the runway.

And the United States is helping more Americans evacuate Israel. As you all know, it's hard. There is no Lebanese border. There is no Syrian border that you can cross, or Saudi border, right? You've got to go Jordan or you've got to go by sea.

And so they have a ship, 10 to 12 hours on this giant evacuation ship from the U.S. military, from Haifa, going to Cypress.

Our Natasha Bertrand is live at the Pentagon. Natasha, this is -- this is almost -- it's basically a military cruise ship. Tell us what you know.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Erin. So the U.S. making an effort here to try to evacuate civilians and citizens, U.S. citizens who do want to leave.

And what we're told is that it's going to be departing from Haifa, and actually, it was boarding earlier this morning, around 1 a.m. Eastern Time. And it is about 10 to 12 hours from Haifa to Cypress. It has to be only U.S. nationals and their immediate family members.

And then once these U.S. citizens get to Cypress, if they do not have the ability to arrange their own travel onward, then the U.S. is going to be arranging for charter flights for them to continue with their on journey there.

Now, it's important to note that this is not a noncombatant evacuation operation as such that the military, for example, carried out in Afghanistan when U.S. citizens were trying to flee at that point.

This is a smaller effort. It is organized by the U.S. State Department, and the State Department issued that alert just yesterday, saying that they were going to be organizing this evacuation for citizens who want to leave.

Now, we should note that we first reported earlier this -- earlier this weekend that the U.S. military is putting a marine expeditionary unit kind of on standby, preparing them for the possibility that they might have to deploy closer to Israel in the event that there is that demand signal from U.S. citizens who want to depart Israel en masse.

So right now, they have not gotten that order. This marine expeditionary unit is capable of helping to support large-scale evacuations. And that is actually one of their mission-essential tasks. They have not gotten that order yet.

[06:10:08]

The White House has said that they have not seen yet the demand signal from U.S. citizens trying to leave Israel. Remember, a lot of these people are dual citizens, so they don't necessarily want to leave the country.

But they are preparing for that possibility, if -- if they need to, Erin.

BURNETT: So Natasha, why is the U.S. sending a second carrier strike group to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. Just when you think about the air power, doubling the air power on those, that that would make available to the U.S. military in the region, what does that actually signal in terms of the posture and the way the U.S. sees as a potential for escalation?

BERTRAND: Yes, Erin, this is a huge show of force. I mean, even the first aircraft carrier, which arrived in the region earlier this week, that was very significant.

But now to have a second aircraft carrier heading towards the Eastern Mediterranean, that is extremely significant. And it is really a sign that the U.S. is concerned about the possibility that additional groups, additional actors will try to join this conflict.

And so it is meant as a deterrent, primarily against Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group that the U.S. has expressed so much worry about, the possibility that they could open a new front in this conflict.

Of course, Iran, which backs Hezbollah and also backs Hamas, also very concerned that they could get involved somehow.

So two aircraft carriers, strike carriers, in this region, really significant. A sign that the U.S. is trying to show a really forceful sign of deterrence, Erin.

BURNETT: Natasha, thank you very much at the Pentagon this hour. Poppy and Phil, back to you.

HARLOW: Erin, thank you very much.

And we also just learned that Secretary of State Antony Blinken will not only meet with Netanyahu and the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, he's also going to meet with the opposition leader there and the defense minister of Israel. So a lot of key meetings still ahead for the secretary of state.

Joining us now, former White House foreign policy advisor in the George W. Bush administration, Dan Senor.

Dan, it's great to have you, especially on a day like this. I want to get to the Biden interview in a moment. But there is mass confusion, as Erin just reported, over the -- the Southern crossing, the only potentially possibly safe way for Palestinians, Americans, to get out.

DAN SENOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR: Yes.

HARLOW: Can you explain what is happening right now diplomatically? Because Saturday it was supposed to be open for five hours for Americans to get out, and it wasn't. And the blame was on Hamas. What can be done.

SENOR: Hamas doesn't really want the Palestinians leaving. Because the way they wage their war is they co-locate civilians, large concentrations of civilians --

HARLOW: Around them.

SENOR: -- with their weapons capabilities.

So the U.N.-run schools in Gaza have Hamas's weapons. They know if Israel tries to take out Hamas's weapons, they're going to hit the U.N.-run schools.

They put their command centers, the military command centers, in hospitals, because they know if Israel tries to hit a command center, they can say, Look, you hit a hospital.

So the last thing they want is dispersing the Palestinians to other parts of Gaza, to Southern Gaza. That makes it harder for Hamas to use them as human shields.

Egypt doesn't want all these Palestinians coming in over the Rafah border. They say that it's a humanitarian plight and that we should look after the Palestinians', you know, needs and their humanitarian needs. But the one easy way to do it is to move them across the Rafah border into Egypt, and they don't want to do that.

Now, what Egypt is doing is trying to move, apparently, food and other healthcare supplies into Gaza. Israel is letting them do that. That's tricky, because you don't know who controls them once you send them into Gaza. Is Hamas in control of them? Are terrorists getting access to those supplies?

So the Southern border is a mess. The single best move would be for the Egyptian El-Sisi government to say, We will take in Palestinians. We will create refugee areas. We will create tent cities.

It's worked in other parts of the world. He says it's very costly, it's very expensive, but as we've seen from Ukraine to the war in Syria, international communities spent enormous amounts of money absorbing these people.

HARLOW: Yes.

SENOR: So no single country had to absorb it.

HARLOW: And the U.N. -- U.N. is already setting up, and they have people now positioned there in Northern Egypt in the hope that this will --

SENOR: Right, right. And like I said, there's precedent for Egypt not absorbing all the costs. Sisi knows that. He's slow -- he's slow- walking it.

MATTINGLY: But there are domestic security concerns, as well. And I think this is -- you know, to your point, what they say publicly, what Sisi says publicly, versus what his considerations are internally --

SENOR: Right.

MATTINGLY: -- oftentimes diverge from one another. And I think that is a driver, as well, to not wanting a large --

SENOR: And if that's his concern, he should say it. But what he shouldn't do is say that this is Israel's fault. Because he -- to your point, these are security concerns that he has, which is fine. And again, the international community can help him with that.

HARLOW: I want you to listen to two things that Secretary Blinken said. The first is in that critical press conference with Netanyahu. And the second was yesterday in Egypt. Listen to how they echo one another.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The prime minister and I discussed how Israel does this matters.

[06:15:05]

The way that Israel does this matters. Needs to do it in a way that affirms the shared values that we have for human life and human dignity, taking every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Intentional that he said it both times in that way. And the real question is, you know, what will the U.S. support in terms of how Israel does it. They have said they are in lockstep, no matter what?

SENOR: Right. Well, no. I -- I think the -- the comparison that President Biden made in his speech, in his press statement las week, where he kept comparing Israel [SIC] to ISIS, right. Now, then the U.S. --

HARLOW: Hamas.

SENOR: Sorry, sorry. Comparing Hamas -- thank you, when comparing Hamas to ISIS. When the United States, over the course of three administrations, right -- the Obama administration, the Trump administration, the Biden administration -- went to wipe out ISIS, they obviously didn't want casualties. They didn't want civilians to be killed. But there was collateral damage in war that is inevitable, and that did not slow them down from taking out ISIS.

You've heard President Biden make these repeated comparisons to the Holocaust, right, that what Hamas has done to Israel is the worst suffering of Jews anywhere in the world in any single day since the Holocaust.

You know, there's -- we -- we're concerned obviously, America and the U.K., and our allies were worried about civilian casualties in fighting World War II.

But obviously, there are civilian casualties, and there's collateral damage. So these -- these, you know, declarations that Israel should be mindful. Of course Israel should be mindful.

But to my earlier point, how do -- how do you be mindful when they're putting their offensive capabilities in hospitals and U.N.-run schools. And at the end of the day, that's the dilemma that Israel faces.

HARLOW: Cutting off water, electricity, strategically put it onto hospitals for example.

SENOR: Or could you move it to the Southern part of Gaza, where Israel is trying to get the Palestinians -- the Palestinians in Gaza to move to.

MATTINGLY: Here's where I struggle with the ISIS analogy. And correct me if I'm wrong on this. They had a caliphate that they had created amongst themselves.

But when they were taken out, there were governing structures and infrastructure there in Iraq, Syria -- it's a little debatable to some degree -- to fill the vacuum or to retake control.

The president in that "60 Minutes" interview saying he would be opposed to Israel occupying Gaza. There's a very real reason that Israel pulled out of occupation of Gaza. And so I think my big question, particularly if you're going to point to ISIS, is who fills this vacuum?

SENOR: Right. Well, first of all, when ISIS was driven out of these areas like Raqqah, there was a massive vacuum. There was no -- there was no strong governing authority in places like Syria and elsewhere that could, like really fill that.

MATTINGLY: One did exist, at least, in Iraq.

SENOR: Yes, OK. But it was weak. And of course the U.S. went in saying, Look, we've got to wipe out ISIS. ISIS poses an enormous threat to the West. We're going to wipe out ISIS.

And then we will figure out how to fill the vacuum. But you can't say we're going to live -- we're not going to learn to live with ISIS until we figure out what's going to succeed ISIS. I just think after what Israel went through over the past week, right

-- babies beheaded, babies burned, women raped, en masse, like Jew hunting. The idea that Israel should be told you have to learn to live with this entity here until we figure out what succeeds it.

There are possibilities for what succeeds it. The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, which used to be in control in Gaza, before Hamas drove them out, could be reestablished in Gaza. There's a whole range of options.

But this is an existential threat to Israel. Israeli leaders are dealing with the worst threat to Israel's existence since the 1973 Yom Kippur War. The idea that they should wait and learn to live with this threat that's on their border.

MATTINGLY: We have to go. I'm not saying that they have to wait. I'm just thinking that foresight and trying to think through what happens next is a pretty critical component.

SENOR: Except they didn't choose the timing of this. This was just thrust upon them. They had a security doctrine that was learning to live -- to co-exist, effectively, with Hamas for two decades since Israel pulled out in 2005. And then this happened.

And the idea that this -- the rug gets pulled out from Israel, and Israel's supposed to say, well, you've got to figure out what comes next.

Israel says no, we have to probability our citizens from the Jew hunting that we saw last weekend, or eight days ago. We will do that and protect our security, and then we'll deal with what follows.

HARLOW: Just quickly before you go, you were an adviser to President Bush. But you think this week for Biden has been what?

SENOR: I think it's been one of, if not the best weeks of his presidency. I think he has spoken with moral clarity. And I'm often a critic of his. The language he's used, both in his press statement earlier this week and in the "60 Minutes" interview last night, was not only clear-headed but was actually quite moving.

And I think he's established goalposts. There will be moments where governments around the world, including the U.S., will be critical of what Israel does in the weeks ahead.

But President Biden put down markers. He compared what Israel is going through to the Holocaust. As we said earlier, he's compared what Israel is experiencing as the threat that ISIS opposed to the West.

Once you establish those markers -- and I think he comes at it sincerely as you and I were talking about it off camera.

[06:20:06]

President Biden has taken his grandchildren, every single one of them, to visit the concentration camps. I think he feels this. And once he puts down those markers, I think it's going to be very hard to be critical of Israel as it takes its next steps.

HARLOW: Dan Senor, thank you very much.

MATTINGLY: Thank you.

HARLOW: Great to have you.

MATTINGLY: Well, a ground operation in Gaza is expected soon. We're going to hear from an IDF spokesman on what's being done to free the hostages held by Hamas and how the threat of severe weather could actually impact Israeli battle plans. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And welcome back. We are live in Israeli this morning and so is Secretary of State Antony Blinken, just landing here, arriving in Tel Aviv earlier this morning where I'm standing.

Blinken is meeting with the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and other Israeli officials today. And Blinken and Netanyahu expected to hold a joint news conference in a little over an hour.

His trip here, his second in days, comes of course, as Israel is about to launch a major ground offensive, is expected to, and there is a growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza ahead of that anticipated incursion.

There's still confusion right now over whether the border crossing between Gaza and Egypt, the Rafah border crossing you're hearing so much about, will be open for anyone to leave and for any humanitarian aid to be allowed in.

And while Israel battles Hamas in this war, it is also now facing threats on another front, a front in the Northern part of this country, against the powerful Iran-backed Hezbollah militia in Lebanon and Syria. That threat continues to grow.

[06:25:13]

And our chief global affairs correspondent, Matthew Chance, is there along that Northern Israel border, that possible second front. And when I say possible, Matthew, it's already there. There's already, of course, been a lot of action and already people killed along that border.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's been at least one person killed in an exchange of fire across the border between Northern Israel and -- and Lebanon. And also Syria, as well. Territory inside Syria being used to fire rockets into Israeli territory.

Over the course of the past 24 hours or so, the Israeli Defense Forces, the Israeli military, they say they've carried out multiple strikes on targets inside Lebanon in response to at least nine rocket attacks from Lebanese territory controlled by the Iranian-backed militia, Hezbollah, into Northern Israel. But none of those attacks so far -- and this is -- this is crucial --

none of them have reached what the Israelis call the point of escalation. We haven't seen yet the full-scale bombardment of Northern Israel, which Hezbollah would be capable of, given its massive arsenal of rockets. That many people are bracing themselves and the Israeli army is bracing themselves for.

What the Israeli military has done is impose a security zone in the areas very close to the Lebanese border. They've pushed civilians back. Civilians in various areas like this one, Qiryat Shemona, have been asked to evacuate their homes for security reasons because this is right directly in the firing lines, should Hezbollah decide to open up its missile arsenal and really start to throw ordinance across the border into Northern Israel.

Nevertheless, Israeli forces that we've spoken to say they are determined to fight back. They're not going to be caught off-guard. And in fact are actually bristling for a potential confrontation with the Lebanese militia.

Take a listen to one Israeli commander who we spoke to near the border zone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: Are you hopeful still that Hezbollah will stay out of this war?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope there will be another front. We need to destroy Hezbollah.

CHANCE: You hope there will be another front? You want the war?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CHANCE: Why?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: Incredible. And that gives you a sense, Erin, of the mood not just amongst ordinary soldiers but politicians, ordinary civilians, as well. They feel the time has come because of the attacks near Gaza last weekend to really strike back at the enemies of Israel.

BURNETT: What an incredible thing to say. I mean, in a sense surprising but just shows you still how raw this is. You would say yes, we want another war with another group because of how they feel right now. Powerful.

Thank you very much, Matthew Chance in Northern Israel.

Phil, back to you.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, Erin.

And joining us now is IDF international spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.

Lieutenant Colonel, I want to start with with where Matthew ended, the idea that the individual that he spoke with actually wanted the front and the North to open up in an effort to go after Hezbollah, as well. Is that something that you agree with?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESMAN: The situation on the North is extremely delicate at the time. The IDF is not looking to escalate on the border with Lebanon. And as Matthew pointed out, there has been an extreme -- an increase of exchanges across the border.

We've seen several anti-tank guided missile strikes against civilians, against military forces operating on the border. And indeed, we've evacuated along the border in an area of two kilometers throughout the breadth of the -- of the border at the frontier all of the civilians, and we've asked them to leave.

And it's actually a coordinated evacuation because that's what we do. We evacuate our civilians out of the line of danger.

On the other hand, it's total, around 28 communities, 28 towns and villages. And on the other hand, we are preparing ourselves for that eventuality. And I think that soldier, obviously, he does not present the policy of the IDF that -- that Matthew interviewed on the spot in the field.

But of course, there is a -- a sense that we need to be prepared for that eventuality. And of course, there is a challenge. What we understand -- what we understand at this time is Hezbollah is actually operating in order to increase and -- and expand and perhaps even broaden under the direction of Iran.

And that is a cause of concern, and that is why we have recruited everyone. Last 10 days, some 300,000 reservists for both fronts, also for the Gaza Strip, which is the main arena at this time.

[06:30:00]