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Hamas Hiding in Gaza City; Look at Hamas Leadership; American- Israeli Reservists Rushing to Help in War; Jordan Trying to Win Holdouts. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 16, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Extensive tunnel system below Gaza played a key role in allowing Hamas to orchestrate their deadly attack on Israel. We're going to go through the current challenges those tunnels pose to the IDF.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also, you're going to see something extraordinary. After the horror that played out in Israel, many Israeli Americans quickly jumped at the opportunity to join the fight and defend their homeland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID FRANKEL, IDF RESERVIST: I want to come home safely to my family. I want to see my boys grow up. But you have to put that aside and stop the madness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: We are live in Tel Aviv, Israel. The secretary of state, Antony Blinken, has met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu here today. He is now on his way to meet with the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog.

President Biden, meantime, has canceled his domestic trip to Colorado. He was going to be talking about the economy today in Lauren Boebert's district, actually. Now has canceled that, focusing on national security meetings.

The context of this as the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who has invited Biden to visit Israel. We're not aware of any travel plans, but we do know that he's canceled the Colorado trip for security meetings during the day today.

[08:35:05]

And it comes as the humanitarian aid deliveries accumulate at the Egyptian/Gaza border, that Rafah border that we're talking about so much here. That's where thousands are still waiting to escape from the Gaza side. And that includes hundreds of Palestinian Americans. And, by the way, even some Americans, American doctors we are aware of who are in there who are trying to get out as well. And there's complete confusion over whether that border will open at all, never mind when that border will open.

Meantime, the government media office of Hamas, and I want to be very important to stress the source here, has put out a picture. This picture, they say, is a mass grave where dozens of unidentified bodies have been buried.

And, Phil and Poppy, the context here is that they're saying that their hospital freezers are full because of strikes and the number of dead and that they're unable to store them anywhere. And, of course, with the loss of power, unable to care for them in the right way. And now are starting to begin these mass graves.

Again, that's from a Hamas government media office.

HARLOW: Yes.

BURNETT: But regardless of the source, the humanitarian tragedy there, of course, rises by the moment, Poppy.

HARLOW: That's right. So striking, Erin. First time I've seen that image. And I think the same for a lot of our viewers. We'll get back to you very seen, Erin. Thank you very much.

Let's also talk about what Israel is facing in Gaza, should there be a ground incursion. You've got a vast labyrinth of tunnels underneath Gaza. The IDF says Hamas terrorists are hiding in a subterranean network under houses, under apartment buildings, of innocent Palestinian civilians. Hamas, in 2021, claimed to have built over 300 miles worth of these tunnels. And if that's true, it would be a little less than half the length of the New York City subway station - system, I should say. Just think about that. How does this underground network complicate Israel's offensive and efforts to rescue those hostages?

With us at the wall, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

Israel had claimed, John, a couple of years ago, 2021, to have destroyed a lot. They said 62 miles of this tunnel network. Even with that, what are they facing on the ground here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the tunnel network, on a good day, when you're not at war, has been essential to Hamas. It's the way they move fighters around. It's the way they move weapons around. It's the way they avoid what is pervasive Israeli surveillance in terms of signals, satellites, cameras. So, it's - it's very important to them.

You know, we talked about this earlier, with General Hertling, but these have secret entrances in buildings. They have entrances off the street. They go down hundreds of feet underground. And they provide not just a shade from surveillance, but at a difficult time like now, from aerial bombing and things that allow Hamas to stay operational, while you see the damage and the carnage aboveground.

HARLOW: We were talking about this in the break. How on earth do you go in there -- if there are civilian hostages down there, and terrorists down there, how do Israeli forces go in there, get out the hostages, kill the terrorists, most effectively?

MILLER: Well, this is where our intelligence gap is, which is probably a good thing. We don't know, as we stand here, how much the Israelis know about the mapping of the tunnels that were rebuilt, the mapping of the new tunnels, where hostages were being held, what their level of detail is. But at a base level, even if they're operating in the dark, coming into the tunnels from multiple directions and doing a hostage rescue effort is always going to be high risk, but it's something that the Israelis, in particular, have a lot of experience with.

HARLOW: Let's also talk about the two key Hamas leaders, Mohammad el Deif and Yahya Sinwar. What do we need to know about them?

MILLER: Well, Yahya Sinwar is the leader on the ground. There are other Hamas leaders who operate out of Doha. We encountered one of them last week when he put out the worldwide threat.

HARLOW: That's right.

MILLER: And - and the day-to-day kind of politics of it. But he's the man on the ground in Gaza who is the head of the political wing. He's been around a long time. And off the radar for some of it. He spent 23 years in an Israeli prison, but he is known as a shrewd operator, calm under pressure, soft spokesman, and somebody who has been very good at creating alliances and communication channels with Egypt, which borders Gaza, and has that critical crossing, as well as Iran, that has become, obviously, a major factor in supplying missiles.

But that takes us to Mohamed el Deif. El Deif is his alias. It means the guest, because as the military leader on the ground in Gaza of Hamas, he never sleeps in the same place two nights in a row.

[08:40:02]

He often sleeps in places that are in those tunnels or moving from house to house. He has been with Hamas, born in 1965, grew up in a refugee camp in southern Gaza. Oddly, in college his main interest was in drama. But as he got into the interfada (ph), spent time in an Israeli prison, came back, in the '90s he quickly rose through the ranks. But when you look at him, think back to that time. The bombings of the buses, the bombings of the restaurants crowded with tourists and Israelis. This is the period where he made his mark, targeted by Israel, his locations were attacked. He lost two children. He lost an arm. He lost a leg. But he is a committed warrior.

HARLOW: He lost an arm and a leg and is still moving every night?

MILLER: And, you know, has - has half his hearing. But if you want to know who is the tactical mastermind between what we've seen in the last week - HARLOW: Yes.

MILLER: That would be el Deif.

HARLOW: John, thank you very much. Really illuminating. Appreciate it.

Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, Israeli Americans are answering the call as Israel is seeking about 300,000 reservists from around the world to join the fight against Hamas. These American Israelis say that after seeing hundreds of Hamas gunmen storm into Israel, killing people and abducting others, they knew they had to drop everything and defend their country.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is live in Los Angeles with more.

Stephanie, it's been a remarkable thing to watch over the course of the last eight days. What did you find?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Phil, in just a couple of days, these people have dropped their lives. You're talking about accountants, therapists, real estate agents and just knew that they needed to get back to Israel. And that is where this chartered flight came in to help get them there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOREL MEIRI, ISRAELI-AMERICAN RETURNING FOR WAR: I've done my crying and I can't even begin to process it.

ELAM (voice over): After seeing the first images from the attack on the Nova music festival --

MEIRI: I want to go and I almost feel like I need to go.

ELAM: Dorel Meiri felt he had only one option, get to Israel.

MEIRI: Yes, I was just in shock and it didn't make sense to me the things that I was seeing.

ELAM: A Los Angeles native, Meiri was born to Israeli parent who moved to the U.S. 35 years ago.

MEIRI: I love where I came from. I know who I am. I'm American. I'm Israeli.

ELAM: After college, the 28-year-old joined the Israel Defense Forces. He says two of his friends from his time in the IDF were killed in the Hamas attack.

MEIRI: I started looking at flights.

ELAM: But most air carriers had halted service to Israel.

JORDAN FRIED, FOUNDER, "ISRAEL FRIENDS": I think this is nothing short of a miracle.

ELAM: That's where Jordan Fried stepped in.

FRIED: I got a distress phone call from a soldier who needed to get back. I think I naively accepted the challenge and I started making phone calls.

ELAM: In less than a week, the newly formed nonprofit Israel Friends raised private funds and organized this chartered flight to carry 150 people from a handful of nations to Tel Aviv, along with tons of humanitarian aid.

FRIED: These were civilians a week ago but are now reservists who have call up orders to get back to their units. I know none of them. They don't know each other.

ELAM: And yet despite the early morning hour, there's a palpable energy of camaraderie and purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm volunteering there to see whatever they need.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left everything behind, the wife, and just loaded on a flight.

DAVID FRANKEL, IDF RESERVIST: And I want to come home safely to my family. I want to see my boys grow up. But you have to put that aside and stop the madness that's happening.

ELAM: Meiri is also leaving family behind.

ELAM (on camera): As a mom, how are you feeling right now?

NAAMA O. POZNIAK, DOREL MEIRI'S MOTHER: I'm feeling proud. Very, very proud that he made such a big decision.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I can't lie to you. My - like my stomach is turning, but I'm so proud of him.

ELAM: What are you most afraid of?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the outcome. I just fear the unknown at the moment.

ELAM (voice over): But this moment is for final good-byes, as brave faces give way to tears.

ELAM (on camera): What's your overwhelming thought right now?

MEIRI: We're going to fight for our country. So, we're ready and it's amazing that everyone's ready and, you know, just doing my part.

ELAM (voice over): One final embrace they pray won't be their last.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And Meiri did tell me that October 7th will also be a loss for the Israeli people. There's no winning when he goes back to fight. He knows that. But he still wanted to be there.

I have been in touch with him, Phil and Poppy. And I can tell you that he has made to Israel and that he has reported to base. He's been a paratrooper. He was a commander when he served in IDF before. And he is back there because he wanted to be with his soldiers and he wanted to fight for his country. He says, I love America, but I love Israel as well.

[08:45:01]

HARLOW: What a story.

MATTINGLY: Great reporting.

Stephanie Elam, thank you.

HARLOW: All right, take a look. Live pictures out of Capitol Hill, where the House still has no speaker this Monday morning. Our Abby Phillip live in studio to help us figure out if the chaos is ending. Abby's here, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Well, a number of House Republicans are in talks to block Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan's path to the speakership, yet he is still pushing for a floor vote tomorrow. Take a listen to what one Republican had to say about bullying GOP holdouts into supporting Jordan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): What I - and what I would really recommend to Jordan's allies, too, is a lot of them have mounted this whole - this high-pressure campaign. They're going to - they're going to whip up Twitter against the people who are against Jordan. That is the dumbest way to support Jordan. And I'm supporting Jordan.

The dumbest thing you can do is to continue pissing off those people and entrench them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Let's bring in Abby Phillip. She is the anchor of "CNN NEWS NIGHT."

You know, I'm laughing at this because -

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: What can you even say with all of this chaos?

MATTINGLY: Because I don't know how the - I feel like - and I think you - you probably both can appreciate this.

[08:50:02]

We always kind of know how it's going to end, right? PHILLIP: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's just a matter of how much pain everyone's going to have to go through before you get to the end game.

I don't know what the end game is here.

PHILLIP: Yes. And every time I talk to Republicans, no one seems to know what the end game is.

The reality is that Jim Jordan is much farther away from the speakership than even Kevin McCarthy was earlier this year when it took him 15 rounds to get those last few votes. How does this end? I don't know.

I mean what -- I've talked to a lot of the more moderate Republicans, people like Dan Crenshaw in that clip, who are so angry. They are so angry, they do not want to reward the people who put them in this mess. Some of them have said they will never vote for a Jim Jordan. But there are actually more of them than there were of the Matt Gaetz holdouts.

And so, under those circumstances, it is really not clear to me where this goes. I do think, though, there will be a vote of some kind and then it will be -- the same thing that we saw last week, just like Steve Scalise had to have a moment to realize, do I have the votes, do I not, a similar thing will happen with Jim Jordan. And then perhaps another name will emerge that we're not talking about just yet.

HARLOW: One of the defenses of this mess from Matt Gaetz over the weekend, in his interview with our colleague, Michael Smerconish, was, well, because of this legislation that was pass a handful of years ago by Rubio, I think Koonz (ph) as well, Israel has this funding. You know, the $3.8 billion a year. It's going to continue. We don't have to sort of reauthorize this. That is a defense to say that it's OK, and we're - and he said, we're still having meetings and we're still getting things done.

PHILLIP: The government is going to run out of funding in four weeks.

HARLOW: Yes.

PHILLIP: There are agenda items. And that's why you're hearing some Republicans and Democrats saying, we need a plan b in case the Republicans can't get their act together. They're talking about empowering the speaker pro temp, Patrick McHenry, so that they can address things that come -- just have a process for legislative business.

Now, one of the agenda items that Democrats are interested in, and moderates are interested in, is Ukraine aid.

HARLOW: I was just going to say, that does not continue each year.

PHILLIP: That's -- that does not continue each year. That needs to be authorized. And that might be why this sort of temporary solution won't happen because the hardliners don't want to authorize Ukraine aid. They don't want to make it possible for something like that to happen.

We are in a true stalemate here in Congress, and it's going to be a question of, are the adults in the room going to step up and are they going to have enough power and clout to move a process forward that empowers where honestly the vast majority of the House, in both parties, are. We're talking about a couple dozen people on the -- in the Republican Party who are stopping all business. And I think that that's - we'll see how tenable that is as we go toward especially this government funding deadline in mid-November.

MATTINGLY: Switching topics just because I think this all actually plays into what's happening in the House to some degree, what's happening in Israel, obviously.

PHILLIP: Yes.

MATTINGLY: We're talking about funding for Israel as they look towards a counteroffensive there.

There's a new CNN poll out that says that 96 percent of Americans have either a lot of or some sympathy for the Israeli people, 67 percent of Americans have a lot or some sympathy for the Palestinian people.

I think politically speaking why this sticks out to me is because those numbers are going to shift when an offensive begins, our a counteroffensive begins. I think that's part of why you've seen President Biden be so forward leaning on this despite decades of support for Israel. What stands out to you with those numbers?

PHILLIP: Well, look, I mean, I think that it's not a surprise that the numbers in support of Israel are as high as they are. I think in both parties the vast majority, when it comes to politics, the mass majority of Americans support Israel and its right to exist. The question becomes, what happens when the civilian casualties go up, when the bombs start falling.

And I also think that this is going to be a question of where political leaders start to come into play. You have people like Ron DeSantis basically squashing the distinction between Hamas terrorists and Palestinian people, civilians. And that is not helpful in this environment because, just as a factual matter, there are millions of people in Palestine who have nothing to do with the bombs falling in Israel or that terrorist attack. And there is a real humanitarian crisis that's unfolding there and that the world is going to be dealing with, not just the United States.

HARLOW: Yes.

PHILLIP: So, we'll see how this goes. I mean, I think that, at the end of the day, you know, how this is talked about by leaders in this country and over there is going to have a huge determination on where public opinion shifts on this for sure.

HARLOW: And DeSantis trying to explain why America shouldn't take any Palestinian refugees, saying they're all anti-Semitic.

PHILLIP: Yes.

[08:55:03]

HARLOW: I mean words matter.

PHILLIP: It's - it's (INAUDIBLE). It's sad, honestly.

HARLOW: Yes.

Well, Abby, thank you. Good to have you.

PHILLIP: Good to see you both.

HARLOW: Can't wait to watch you tonight. The launch of your show.

PHILLIP: 10:00 p.m. Hope to see you all there.

HARLOW: We really appreciate it.

"CNN NEWS NIGHT" with Abby Phillip, tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern. We will be there.

MATTINGLY: Well, "Saturday Night Live" made its long awaited return this weekend. So did host and former cast member Pete Davidson. You'll remember, Davidson lost his father in the 9/11 attack, used his opening monologue to address victims of the ongoing war in Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE DAVIDSON, COMEDIAN: This week we saw the horrible images and stories from Israel and Gaza. And I know what you're thinking, who better to comment on it than Pete Davidson. Well, in a lot of ways, I am a good person to talk about it because when I was seven years old my dad was killed in a terrorist attack. So, I know something about what that's like. I saw so many terrible pictures this week of children suffering, Israeli children and Palestinian children, and it took me back to a really horrible, horrible place. And, you know, no one in this world deserves to suffer like that, you know, especially not kids.

I don't understand it. I really don't. And I never will. But sometimes comedy is really the only way forward through tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: A hearing will start in just over an hour on special counsel Jack Smith's request to place a gag order on the former president in the federal election subversion case. Now, that gag order would restrict what former President Trump could say about the case after he verbally attacked multiple people, including the judge. Trump's lawyers have asked the judge to reject the request. HARLOW: One of the country's largest pharmacy chains has filed for

bankruptcy this morning. That is Rite Aid. That decision not a total surprise. The company has faced mounting debt. Much of it stemming from lawsuits over opioids. Rite Aid is accused of filling unlawful opioid prescriptions for its customers.

[09:00:00]

Walgreen, CVS, other pharmacy chains settled similar lawsuits over the past couple of years.

MATTINGLY: And it was another scary moment for the Buffalo Bills last night. Bills running back Damian Harris going down after a short run and laying on the ground for several minutes. Harris was taken to the hospital for further testing. Players for both teams signaled for doctors after Harris was tackled. The Bills saying in a statement after the game that his neck was injured. The Bills confirmed that he does have movement in his arms and legs. In a positive sign, Harris gave a thumbs up to the fans as he was loaded into the ambulance.

HARLOW: Hoping for the best for him, of course.

We are staying on all the breaking news out of Israel and Gaza. Stay with CNN. "NEWS CENTRAL" starts now.