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CNN This Morning

Biden in Israel after Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The human tragedy on a terrible, terrible scale. The massive explosion at a hospital in Gaza City.

[06:00:32]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This hospital is vital to the Northern part of Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The explosion in Gaza was caused by an Islamic Jihad rocket that was misfired.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From now, we don't know. We have nobody to confirm anything.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These images are having a huge impact across the region.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These protests are only going to get larger.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: All of that made the president's planned summit in Amman, Jordan, effectively untenable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Biden is meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu at length.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. A very significant day on the world stage. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett, Clarissa Ward and Kaitlan Collins on the ground in Israel, where President Biden is right now, at an incredibly volatile moment in the war between Hamas and Israel after an explosion at a hospital in Gaza killed hundreds of innocent civilians.

Officials there claim that it was an Israeli air strike, but Israel insists it was a misfired rocket that was launched by Palestinian militants, Islamic Jihad, right near the hospital.

This morning, President Biden appeared to take Israel's side. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. And based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not -- not you. But there's a lot of people out there are not sure, so we've got to overcome a lot of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Shortly before Air Force One landed in Israel, the Israeli military laid out photos and video evidence they say blames the explosion on the Islamic Jihad militant group.

Despite Israel's denials, a wave of anti-Israel protests erupted in cities across the Middle East. In Lebanon, hundreds of protesters tried to break through security barriers near the U.S. embassy. Police fired tear gas and water cannons to drive them away.

We have team coverage of correspondents on the ground in Israel and across the region. Let's start with Erin Burnett, live in Tel Aviv. This is a very volatile situation. What is President Biden walking into today?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Incredibly volatile, and those images that you just showed, those four images from across the Middle East, say it all.

That is the situation here and that the heightened tensions you've got in Beirut calls for a day of unprecedented rage ahead. All of this because of what happened at that Gaza hospital and because of the anticipation of Israel launching a broader assault on Gaza.

It is an incredibly tense moment, and as you know, Phil and Poppy, part of the reality is, part of the problem is President Biden was walking in thinking that he was going to be able to show he was meeting with the Israelis, as well as with Arab leaders, including the leader of the Palestinians.

That meeting, of course, was canceled because of the hospital attack.

So while he says he'll be speaking to them on the airplane, that is a huge blow. It is a blow to what his efforts are here. And it is -- you really can't underestimate the significance of the fact that those people and those images you saw, it was after dark when that hospital was struck. It was hours later, 11, 12 a.m., 1 a.m., 2 a.m.

When we saw those protesters come out all through the night, it wasn't as if they woke up in the morning and decided to do it. They got up, and they went out in that moment. And that should give you a sense of the intensity and the passion here.

HARLOW: Erin, overnight, Israel not only spoke at a press conference but also provided images that they say is proof that they did not -- this was not a strike from Israel. Can you walk through what they are putting out there? BURNETT: Yes, and I'll show you guys, first of all, they literally are

putting out here documentation that they say proves that they did not do this.

They are saying, for example, basic things that, when you have an Israeli strike, it is followed by craters, right? That they're saying craters and that these weren't here.

They're saying that the rocket actually came from a group called the Islamic jihadist group from a cemetery right next to the hospital. That it launched there and it failed.

Now, they say because it was so close, the large blast is actually evidence not of its power but of its short trajectory. They say that they can still see the rocket has a lot of its propellant fuel so obviously didn't travel very far.

So this is the argument they're laying out, and they literally, as I said, are putting out pictures they took from a drone. And they also are putting out audio of what the IDF claims are terrorists talking about the misfire.

Now, I should say CNN can't independently verify what caused the explosion or the authenticity of that exchange. But I will say they put this out. They even put out a map here, showing how many misfires they say have happened since the beginning of this war, now 12 days ago. Four hundred and fifty failed launches by jihadist groups in the Gaza Strip.

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They're putting all of this out. The question is, when you look at those pictures of people on the street, does it matter? To those individual, no, because they believe this was Israel in the eyes of the international community.

Maybe this does make a difference, but in the eyes of the streets, no.

I want to go to CNN international correspondent Clarissa Ward in Ashkelon, Israel. And the hospital blast to that point is a huge inflection in this already tense war. President Biden now on the ground. What is your biggest takeaway at this hour?

WARD: I mean, there's no question this feels like a watershed moment in this already gruesome conflict. We've been speaking, Erin, to doctors on the ground, some of whom were at that hospital.

They say that on October 14, there were two Israeli hits very close to the hospital. They also said that they received a phone call the day afterwards from the IDF telling them that they should evacuate from that hospital.

They're using that to bolster their argument and their conviction that this was, indeed, an Israeli strike. They point to the fact that they do not believe that a rocket attack would cause that kind of damage, would cause that kind of death toll. They also have been describing just gruesome scenes, Erin, some of

which we have seen borne out in videos of the horror, of the aftermath of this explosion. Body parts strewn across the entire area. They said that basically people had been taking shelter in the Al Ahli Baptist hospital, that they had been, many of them, sleeping in tents in the garden of the hospital.

This is a common thing during times of heavy bombardment in Gaza. People flocked to hotels. People flocked to hospitals. They believed that those areas are largely safe. They set up camp there. They wait for the situation to improve.

Obviously, in this case, we're seeing now hundreds dead. It is still unclear what the exact number is. The efforts to try to sift through the wreckage and identify how many people have been killed continues.

But at this stage, as you say, the focus now is very much on the reaction, on the fact that for many Arab states, this is now becoming a national security issue in their own countries, because people are horrified. People are angry. People want revenge, and they are taking to the streets. And we have seen protests erupting all throughout the region.

So, this becomes a real challenge, as well, even for allies of the U.S. I think that's partly why you have seen Arab leaders cancel this meeting with President Biden, because it just becomes too difficult for them to be seen as tacitly endorsing anything coming from the U.S. or Israel in this very, very contentious moment.

One other thing to mention: the U.N. secretary-general has come out and said, listen, there needs to be an immediate humanitarian cease- fire. So far, no indication that that might be in the works. We have been hearing heavy strikes continuing throughout the morning, Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Clarissa, thank you very much. And as you point out, that King Abdullah of Jordan, also someone who's close to President Biden, longtime relationship, a friendship. And the fact that he is still, because of what is happening at home and in this region, unable to have that meeting, these are significant things.

Our Kaitlan Collins is here in Tel Aviv with President Biden, who will be speaking soon. And Kaitlan, we heard Biden appearing to agree with Israel, right? And that they were not responsible for the deadly hospital explosion is significant. It seemed he went further than his national security officials.

So -- so how significant is this, what he exactly said?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he went further, even, than what he said before departing the United States to head here to Tel Aviv. And he had just arrived here. He had not been on the ground for very long, Erin.

He had greeted the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, at the airport, and then he made his way here to this hotel that I'm standing in now, where he is having his slate of meetings, the very few meetings that he is having while he's on the ground here in Israel.

And it was one of the first comments that he made, and it was incredibly significant, because the president took the time as he was seated one-on-one there with Netanyahu, with their national security officials by their sides, to say that, based on what he has seen, he said it was the other team, and he specifically said,, "not you," referring to the Israeli prime minister.

Of course, that is greatly significant, because he is endorsing Israel's denials that they are responsible for the explosion that happened at that hospital in Gaza.

Now, Israel has denied it. You have seen Palestinian authorities blame the Israeli -- Israel Defense Forces and to say that they are to blame. Israel has strongly denied that.

So it is significant to see the president coming out and saying that, endorsing those denials.

But what I'll note is that he said "the other team," which, of course, raised a lot of questions of what specifically he was referring to. We asked him those questions. I was in the room as he was having this meeting with the prime minister. He did not clarify, of course, that.

And the other big question is, what it is that he has seen that has led him to endorse these denials by Israel that it was them who is responsible for that explosion at that hospital in Gaza.

He had only just been on the ground here for a very short period of time and had not had any meetings behind closed door with Israeli government officials, but he had been on Air Force One traveling with his own national security team, his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, who was in the room.

So that is still a key question here. And of course, that is going to be something that is hanging over this entire trip as the president is moving forward, a trip, Erin, that I should note is looking a lot different than what the White House thought it was going to, even just 24 hours ago.

I mean he'll be here. He's about to have a meeting shortly with the newly-formed wartime cabinet. And then he's going to be meeting with the families of victims, the families of hostages, first responders who were there on that horrific day here in Israel as that attack unfolded.

Of course, he is not going to be going on to Jordan to have meetings with those other world officials. That is incredibly significant and certainly a setback to what the president was hoping to do.

But key questions still remain of what the deliverables of this trip will look like. Is it humanitarian aid? Is there a certain -- as they were trying to ward off this turning into a bigger regional conflict, those are the key questions that still remain here this morning.

BURNETT: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much with all of those details and, obviously, so many questions about what this meeting may or may have.

Phil and Poppy, as Kaitlan says, it is not what they expected. It is not what they wanted, but it is what they have.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It is a very different moment, to Kaitlan's point, than it was 24 hours ago. A lot of very significant and consequential issues for the president to address, both behind the scenes with the prime minister and his war cabinet.

But also, what you're seeing on the screen. Those are live pictures in Tunisia. That is a very, very real escalation of protests across the region, all as the president is on the ground in Israel.

We're going to continue with our team coverage. Up next, we're also going to dig deeper into what the IDF claims caused the Gaza hospital explosion, plus who they're blaming it on. Stay with us.

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[06:16:21]

BURNETT: Live pictures of smoke rising over Gaza. Smoke rising over Gaza is now every single day. It puts the hospital strike in context, such horror happening, perhaps unavoidable in a situation where there is such bombardment coming in and the efforts of bombardment coming out all day, every single day. The thuds felt all around, even here.

And just hours ago, a spokesperson for the Israeli military held a news conference. So they are putting out, putting out their cards on the table, blaming the Gaza hospital explosion on the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

It is different than Hamas. It is, though, however, the second largest armed group in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESMAN: The explosion of the Al Ahli hospital was caused by an Islamic Jihad rocket that was misfired. According to our intelligence, Hamas checked the reports, understood it was an Islamic Jihad rocket that had misfired and decided to launch a global media campaign to hide what really happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. A news conference. All of this information. You were there in that room. They feel the need to make their case. And point by point, what did you hear?

DIAMOND: Yes, they certainly do feel the need to make their case. I think they would be doing it, regardless of whether or not President Biden was arriving here today.

But certainly there was a greater sense of urgency, because the president of the United States was arriving after this horrific bombing of this hospital in which hundreds of civilians are believed to have died.

And they're making their case in a number of ways. They are providing a lot of intelligence that they say that they have gathered, both conversations with Hamas militants and also pointing to some of the facts on the ground.

One of the key pieces of information that they said that bolsters their claim is this idea that there was no crater on the ground. But amid all of this, we have already watched as the Arab world in particular has already made up their minds about the situation and that is something that Israel is certainly fighting against.

And they're fighting against it, because they have had a credibility problem in the past ---

BURNETT: Yes.

DIAMOND: -- including with the killing of the journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh, last year when the Israeli government initially claimed that it was Palestinian militants and not Israeli soldiers who fired on her. I asked the IDF spokesman that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Among other incidents, the Israeli government initially claimed that it was armed Palestinian militants who killed the journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, which we know is not true. So why should the world trust you now?

HAGARI: Because of the porches of credibility, we took the time, took us more than five hours, we wanted to double-check everything, make sure we're credible. Again, we wanted to double-check everything and make sure we're credible, opposed to the other events that you mentioned.

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DIAMOND: So he says that we're taking the time to be credible this time, right? Acknowledging almost that they have had a credibility problem --

BURNETT: Yes, yes.

DIAMOND: -- in the past, acknowledging that there are times where they have not been credible, right?

BURNETT: Absolutely, absolutely. Although -- and I understand time is of the essence. But five to six hours, and they're saying is a lot of time. But, you know, I'm not exactly sure how to look it up. It's not a lot of time in some sense, isn't it?

DIAMOND: And with the journalists who were killed in Southern Lebanon, we still don't have an official idea of response to that, for example, amid allegations that it was because of IDF shelling on them.

So they clearly pick and choose their moments when they want to put out fulsome information and they want to make their case.

BURNETT: Absolutely. And Phil and Poppy, I will say one other thing, because Jeremy has all this, too. What they show here is what we already know but I think is worth emphasizing to viewers.

That they have complete surveillance of this area. Drone surveillance constantly, right? And they actually put out a trajectory analysis of every rocket that was coming in and out at that time.

[06:20:12]

You say how could they know that? Well, they do know that, because that's how they activate their Iron Dome on such specific small locations, right? Because they do know rocket trajectories and angles and do know that analysis

how they activate their Iron Dome on such specific small locations, right, because they do know rocket trajectories and angles and do know that analysis.

So I think it is significant just to say they are putting this level of granular detail out to support their claim -- Poppy and Phil.

HAROW: OK. Thank you so much, Erin.

And to exactly the point that Erin just made, let's bring in CNN military analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Also with us, our global affairs analyst, Kim Dozier.

Talk a little bit more about what Erin just laid out and if that can be definitive proof.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes.

HARLOW: Of if it only goes so far.

HERTLING: It only goes so far, first of all. And Erin is learning all kinds of new things out here.

But this is what's called a point of origin chart. Every commander has on of these, and their artillery group has it. And as Erin said, this is how the Iron Dome works.

The radar initially gets where the point of origin of a rocket occurs. They use that, first of all, to conduct strikes on that area. You want to kill the enemy.

But it also shows you the trajectory of the round, because that's how the Iron -- the Iron Dome works. You pick up this trajectory somewhere along its route to knock down the rocket.

In this case, they've got several rockets coming out of this area on several trajectories. One of them goes right out of the hospital. This is -- Or right over the hospital. This is pretty good evidence, in and of itself, but it's not enough. You also have to take a look at the craters that they -- that they provided HARLOW: And that's what the Israelis pointed to right away.

HERTLING: Exactly. The first one is the point of origin and the point of aim. This one is their crater analysis.

It hit in this parking lot. This is the hospital right here. And you saw all the burned cars. There were no craters in that area. That means either the rocket exploded over an area or hit a car, set it on fire and the blast had some effect.

And just seeing some of the films that were shown this morning, there were pockmarks on the side of the building. That's an indicator of a blast of a rocket, but there's no craters there.

And the IDF, to try and make their point, is saying this is what a bomb crater looks like here and here that are coming off of aircraft.

The other thing that's important is what I don't think they did say, is if the IDF is aiming for a hospital with their precision rounds, they're going to hit it. They're not going to hit the parking lot. They are going to hit the building.

And what you've seen inside of the building with and outside, again, this is the site of the original fire so the round probably hit somewhere in here and then what the IDF shows is the hospital here with the fire in the parking lot.

So all of these things are pretty good proof of where the round went.

MATTINGLY: Kim, we also know the attribution, according to the IDF and what they're claiming right now, is Islamic Jihad, not Hamas. For people who aren't as familiar with, I think, the various groups that are in the region in Gaza, who is Islamic Jihad? What's their relationship like with Hamas?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Hamas is the governing body. It's the governing party. Islamic Jihad is one of the militant groups that works alongside it, has similar goals and Hamas allows it to flourish because it's got a following within Gaza.

So, the problem is, to use President Biden's terms, you believe your team. And Islamic Jihad is on the team.

So, you know, there's a call for an international investigation into this, but if Hamas knows that this was an Islamic Jihad rocket and the audio that the Israeli defense forces released seems to indicate that, there's no way they're going to let investigators in there on the ground to prove them wrong and to prove that it wasn't an Israeli munition.

HARLOW: So, does that mean, General, that the world may never get definitive proof? What would definitive proof look like?

HERTLING: You're not going to get it, Poppy, because as Kimberly just said, you have to do crater analysis. You have to pick off the pieces of the rocket that are still in the area. I mean, there are remains of the rocket, little shards and you can tell from that crater analysis from that rocket analysis where the round actually came from and what kind it was.

But unless you get in the area, you can't pick that final piece of forensic evidence. And as Kim said, you know, to quote Mark Twain, a lie is going to get around the world before the truth gets its boots on.

And that's what's happening in the information age when you have so much stuff going out online. You can't walk this back based on what we saw in the riots last night. But it's --

HARLOW: Ongoing right now. We just showed live pictures out of Tunisia.

HERTLING: I've been in this situation, where allegedly we hit a mosque or a building, and you can never counter the bias in the area.

[06:25:03]

HARLOW: And these are the live pictures.

MATTINGLY: Kim, you know, to this point, the decision by the president to come out during that spray with Benjamin Netanyahu before their bilateral meeting, which is ongoing right now, it was notable because ten hours prior, he put out a statement that did not have a definitive conclusion on responsibility.

His team briefed while aboard Air Force One during this flight and did not draw a definitive conclusion, only said that this is what the Israelis were saying.

The president, in his own way and also while reading his notes, drew a definitive conclusion: said it was the other team, looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu and said, It was not you. What do you think happened in those ten hours?

DOZIER: I think they've seen a lot of the Israeli intelligence, and they believe it. They believe that this was an intercept and think, from the Israeli point of view, to put out that audio intercept is letting everyone who was on that call or radio transmission know we can hear you. We're listening to all of this and they're going to change their methods of communication.

So that was a big risk. Biden seems to have believed it.

But I also think he used, yes, his typical folksy language. But it's curious, there won't be a bite where the American president is saying, I believe the Palestinians did this, not the Israelis. It's "other team."

So, yes, he lined up with Netanyahu, but surely not in as -- in as fulsome a way as the Israeli prime minister would have liked.

HARLOW: You -- you can bet that he will be asked for more on that and more clear statements on that. Thank you. This was so helpful, General Hertling and Kim. Appreciate

it very much.

As we were just showing you these live protests spreading around the Arab world in the wake of that blast that killed hundreds at that hospital in Gaza.

This is Biden. He's arrived in Israel. We'll take you live next to Amman, Jordan, with reaction on the ground there. Stay with us.

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