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President Biden Meets With Israeli War Cabinet; Biden in Israel After Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Again, Christiane Amanpour, David Sanger, Erin Burnett in Tel Aviv along with Kaitlan Collins.

[07:00:03]

Kaitlan, let me go to you first. We missed the beginning half of what we heard from Netanyahu. Talk to us about the significance of what was just said and what they're going into now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you heard what Prime Minister Netanyahu was referring to there. He was talking about civilians in Gaza, talking about those warnings that have been issued by the IDF to leave Northern Gaza to go to Southern Gaza. Of course, that set off that chaotic scramble from so many people and civilians who felt like they had nowhere really to go.

But, obviously, that is a really big concern that President Biden was expected to raise while here, which is the humanitarian aspect of this, the fact that no humanitarian aid has been able to get into Gaza That has been something that Secretary Blinken in his marathon trips that he's been making here in the Middle East over the last several days and now back here in Israel, in Tel Aviv, with President Biden is making.

I should note, they're just next door to where I am standing here speaking to you right now, meeting with that entire wartime cabinet.

Next, the president is going to go and hear from first responders, from victims' families, from the families, the relatives of hostages. But there are going to be key questions between what he and the prime minister have discussed, humanitarian aid, Poppy, is right at the top of that. So, we'll see if there are any announcements when the president comes and speaks in this room behind me. That's what's next on his agenda.

But the White House said President Biden was walking into this with key questions not just about humanitarian aid but also what Israel is goal is here. If they do go into Gaza with that expected ground incursion, what are their objectives? What is that going to look like?

And those are very critical questions, of course, that the U.S. has amplified by what has happened and by the fact that those in-person meetings in Jordan have now been canceled and now turned into phone calls, which, of course, is not the same, certainly not for President Biden, who values face-to-face meetings as actually going in person, as he had initially planned to do.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's such a critical point. David Sanger, I want to bring you in here because we saw there was a smaller face-to-face meeting between the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu. This is now a larger, more expanded group with that war cabinet kind of unity coming together that happened in the days after the October 7th attacks.

To Kaitlan's point, you heard the prime minister talking about civilians, about the people of Gaza, which is a critical piece of this for the U.S. side of things, what are the expectations in this meeting that's happening right now?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think there are probably two or three things, Phil. The first is what you heard about the effort to try to get the Israelis to open up more humanitarian corridors, carve off areas where there would not be attacks that would be areas for safe passage and so forth.

But I think the second thing you saw that really fascinated me, as we watched this, is the dynamic now that you see Prime Minister Netanyahu dealing with a unity cabinet. So, directly across from Secretary of State Blinken and the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, you saw Benny Gantz, who, of course, used to be the military chief of staff, ran against Netanyahu in 2019, was defense minister at some point, has had a lot of experience in Gaza and is considered a more moderate figure.

I think what you're seeing the administration do is try to keep American officials in Israel constantly. That's why you've seen Secretary Blinken go back twice. You saw Lloyd Austin there. Now, you see the president. And they're just trying to slow the Israelis down and say let's think about what it is you're trying to accomplish.

You can minimize the civilian casualties. I think the hospital event, even if the Israelis are right and it was an Iran rocket from Hamas' side, I think that event will probably underscore for them the need to keep these casualties as low as they can. And my guess is that the administration is trying to move them to more targeted work against specific Hamas leaders rather than a full-scale ground invasion.

HARLOW: The issue with that is how Hamas uses the Palestinian civilians, David, in shields and brings them to where they know they will be targeted.

Christiane, back to you, I apologize we had to interrupt to listen to Netanyahu and the president there, but you had called this, as we were speaking before, an unmitigated disaster, essentially for the president. How does President Biden leave Israel? What is the possibility--

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Poppy, in my memory, a president has not been canceled by Arab leaders. This is an unprecedented situation and it is coming at a massive, massive, massive importance to talk to those Arab leaders in order to be shown to be actually trying to figure out how to de-escalate. [07:05:08]

De-escalation does not look very, very likely right now.

And the most the president can hope to come away with, according to certain Arab leaders and those who are looking at the humanitarian suggestion here, is to get in an agreement from Israel to allow humanitarian aid in. CNN reported and it's been shown on our air that there continue to be airstrikes in the south including around Rafah.

I spoke to the Egyptian foreign minister yesterday with all eyes on Egypt because that is where, as he told me, dozens, if not hundreds of trucks. Convoys are waiting with fuel and water and food to come in for the people there. And it hasn't been able to happen because there have been strikes around Rafah as well, complicating so much of this.

And you-- I was about to tell you that the Israeli Minister of Defense told his troops, and if you like, I'll read it to you, I have released all the restraints that we we put on the IDF. And I think this is, you know, a very, very important comment.

This, of course, was last week but the idea of the United States trying to ensure that, as the Israelis call this a full-scale war, ensure that international law and the respect of civilians is paramount is very key right now. And you can see it playing out all over on the streets, and that in the end is what matters the pressure it puts on people, like the Hezbollah or Iran or whoever, to take matters into their own hands.

HARLOW: Christiane, just to follow up on that, what I was also going to ask you is how likely do you believe it is that President Biden leaves Israel without achieving the humanitarian objectives they went to the region with and leaving with a more angered Arab world after this hospital explosion?

AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, look There's a very inflamed Arab world, a very inflamed Gaza, a very inflamed other Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. And I think that that is going to continue and play out for several days.

We have witnessed this. We've reported this for decades now. I've been reporting this since the 90s, all through the 2000s. This is much, much worse than it has been before, both in the attacks on Israel, for sure, and in the repercussions in Gaza.

And it is uncharted territory, Poppy. They haven't told us what the endgame is in Gaza beyond the eradication of Hamas. This is an urban infrastructure and whether Hamas takes people and holds them as human shields or just they live in this densely populated area, this is an almost impossible task.

And I've spoken to very key advisers to President-- rather Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Mark Regev, for instance, who's also been doing this for decades with Bibi Netanyahu, who told me, Christiane, this is not the same as what we've been through before. There will be civilian casualties. He pointed to other wars that have taken place. But they try, he said, to maintain international law.

But you've already seen what's going to happen throughout this kind of war. It's always like this. There are attacks in Israel, terrible attacks. There is repercussion, and it is exponentially worse on the other side. And that then creates a constant tsunami of response and counter-response, violence and counter-violence. And in the end, nothing gets permanently solved.

So, the Egyptians are even saying that they hope the president would be able to talk to the peace leaders, i.e. Jordan and Egypt, and Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, to not only talk about the humanitarian situation, but to figure out at the end of this, could they restart some kind of political process to essentially solve the bigger problem, which is the Palestinian issue.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Christiane, it's interesting to point out that it's not that Israeli officials are not telling anyone what their endgame here is, and you've had so many great interviews on this, I think they acknowledge they don't know, and I think that's why the unprecedented nature of this.

I want to bring in Erin Burnett, and just to give folks an idea of what's happened. It's 7:08 here in New York. I think it's 2:08 in Tel Aviv, where President Biden is currently meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet after a one-on-one meeting or a smaller, more restricted meeting between the two leaders as part of his agenda while in Tel Aviv.

What's not on the agenda anymore is that trip to Amman to meet with Arab leaders that was canceled in the wake of the explosion at a hospital that is alleged to have killed hundreds. There's now back and forth on the responsibility of the IDF presenting its views and aligning with what President Biden has said, at least in his initial meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Erin, what are you seeing on the ground right now?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: So, you know, Phil, I think when you hear Prime Minister Netanyahu talk about making sure the minimal requirements are met, and Christiane talking about the fact that this is different, so many things fit into what is a familiar narrative for the world right now, when there are strikes on Gaza, counterstrikes, a hospital or civilian infrastructure is hit, then there are protests on the Arab streets.

[07:10:16]

And people start to -- they start to feel what feels like a familiar beat. But as Christiane says, this is unprecedented.

And, Phil, I think it's worth saying, talking to people who witnessed things here, what happened is absolutely unbelievable. They describe it as an apocalypse in hell. But the reason that this is so different for Israel and that they cannot simply say, okay, and simply try to de-escalate, I mean, I heard last night from a man who was running for safety, walked in a bathroom and there were babies hanging from a shower curtain rod. There was a mother holding a baby in each arm and those babies were shot right between the head, execution-style, describing the rapes he saw.

I mean, that is what confronts this country and these things are unimaginable. The horror is unimaginable. But that is why they're in the position they're in, Phil, where there is no talking off a brink or talking off a precipice. Something must be done. That is the palpable feeling here that something must be done.

And, Clarissa, it is that, that is the feeling in every conversation here and the reason this country is waiting, that they do want whatever word you want to use, revenge or payback or retribution, they demand that.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a strong appetite, Erin, for some kind of vengeance. There is no two ways about it. And the voices that you do hear that are asking for an end to the cycle of violence, I interviewed the son of one of the women who was being held hostage, 74-year-old peace activist Vivian Silver, her son, Yonatan Zeigen (ph), said, I don't believe that we can cure death babies with more dead babies.

But those voices are being drowned out by louder cries for war. And with the events at the hospital yesterday, there is now a huge amount of pressure on Arab leaders from their constituents, from angry, enraged, anguished, horrified people taking to the streets, to do more.

We heard the Egyptian -- sorry, rather the Jordanian foreign minister saying, you know, in part the reason for canceling this summit with Biden was there's no conversation to be had until the war stops. And that's a growing sense that until there is some kind of a ceasefire, there can't be a proper conversation about how to deal with this situation. You've heard the U.N. secretary general come out as well and say we need an immediate humanitarian and ceasefire.

So far, it's clear that that is not going to happen. We have been hearing strikes all morning throughout all of yesterday's strikes happening close to the southern part -- the southern border with Egypt, the Rafah crossing. That was the place where Gazans had been told essentially that they should run to for shelter, for refuge, that they should leave their homes in the north.

So, you have this essentially a complete paralysis with all sides dug in with tempers and anger and emotions flaring to unprecedented levels and the very real fear that this then spills out into a broader regional conflagration, which clearly nobody wants to see.

But at this stage, it's not clear what the next steps are that would need to happen in order to prevent that because Hezbollah is coming under pressure from its followers. Iran is coming under pressure from its followers, not to mention the Jordanians, the -- you know, the Saudis, the Emiratis, who have essentially been the most vocal proponents of normalized relations with Israel. The Abraham Accords are essentially out the window. And so it is a moment where one would hope to hit the pause button, take stock for a moment, take a deep breath and have some clear-headed thinking before making any major decisions going forward. But it's just not clear that there is any real appetite for that because the situation is so inflamed, Erin.

BURNETT: And I will say, obviously, we've been talking about this blast on the hospital. And while, of course, there is the awareness that there are many in this region for whom this is an emotional issue, more than a factual issue, there are going to be facts.

And the IDF, of course, has denied and has laid out their evidence denying that they had anything to do with it and saying that it was Islamic jihad.

I do want everyone to know here at CNN we ourselves have been working on this to come up with what the facts are. And CNN has now geolocated the video that shows the moment of the deadly hospital blast in Gaza, and we're going to show it to you.

[07:15:06]

As you see, the sky lights up as a large blast erupts on the hospital grounds, and it sends a huge cloud of smoke into the air. So, we've been able to geolocate this and say this is exactly what you are looking at. You are looking at the hospital explosion, but we cannot independently yet verify what caused the blast. And, obviously, we're going to be very careful as we reach that.

Right now, it's the IDF's detailed layout that they have put out as all that's out there. But, Phil and Poppy, we have geolocated this video, and it is truly a stunning moment to watch, because in that fire blast, of course, hundreds of innocent people in that instant died. Phil and Poppy?

HARLOW: Erin, thank you very much.

And, General Hertling, as we and our viewers, and you look at what CNN has been able to identify in terms of the location, there's a lot still that needs to be independently verified as well.

There's this audio that the Israelis have now released that they say is Hamas talking about the strike on the hospital. Let's let people listen to it.

Thank you. And there are subtitles on the screen.

As you listen to that, and let's bring up the video again that we were just showing, what do you take from both of those?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: First from the video, you see a very large blast and you say, well, that's not from a rocket. What I'd suggest if that rocket failed in flight, it still has a lot of rocket fuel within it. So, you have a combination of the explosion that you would normally get when a rocket impacts plus the fuel of the rocket itself. That's why when you look, you combine that with the part parking lot, photos, and you see all the burned cars, some cars burned, some not, tells me that that fuel, the rocket fuel, spilled over a large area. You see the shrapnel against the side of the hospital, as opposed to it striking the hospital itself. That tells me there was a blast radius, but there was no crater.

So, you're beginning to see a bunch of analysis that shows what exactly this was. You add that to the video. Now, of course, that could be artificial intelligence. Those could be someone submitting a video like that. But it's an indicator that there was conversation online from various terror groups saying, is it ours? No, it's theirs. Where'd it come from? What happened? Did they shoot down the missile? No, the missile failed.

These are the kinds of things you put all that intelligence together, not only with what we saw earlier, from the point of origin of a rocket that was flying over the hospital location, plus the potential for other signals intelligence and what's called Mason Intelligence, the ability to gather explosions from the ground or takeoffs of rockets from the ground, and it's beginning to form a picture.

But as we said before, Poppy, the Arab street already has this. They want to believe something else. I heard your interview earlier, Phil, with the Palestinian leader. There is no saying that Israel is telling the truth now. It's just too late for that. But it appears to me as kind of an analyst that this was a rocket and not an explosion from an Israeli jet.

HARLOW: Lieutenant Hertling, thank you very much for your expert eye on all of that. I appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: Well, as we've noted, there are massive protests that have erupted in cities across the Middle East, even as allegations go back and forth on responsibility. Gaza officials, they blame Israel, while the IDF says it was the Islamic Jihad in terms of the rocket itself. We are going to be live in Amman, Jordan with reaction. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BURNETT: President Biden is in Israel this morning after a deadly blast in Gaza hit a hospital killing hundreds. Now, this is according to Palestinian officials. We don't know yet the final death toll. It will be unbearable and it is an awful, awful event. These are heartbreaking images, injured children and families inside that hospital after the blast. And, of course, those are the injured. Many of those children and families are dead.

And the blasts also now sparking mass anti-Israel protests across the region. And those started -- the strike was around 7:00 local time. By 11:00, 12:00 A.M., 1:00 A.M., 2:00 A.M., there were still people out on the streets across the Middle East, including in Jordan, where local security forces were seen to use teargas. They were trying to disperse huge crowds who had gathered near the Israeli embassy in Amman.

And that is where Nada Bashir is. She is live in Amman, Jordan, with more. And, Nada, obviously, within hours of this strike, first, Mahmoud Abbas, leader of the Palestinian Authority, had pulled out of the summit, the Arab summit, with President Biden, but then that was followed by, of course, King Abdullah of Jordan and Sisi of Egypt. What further reaction are you seeing in Jordan with the context that where you are standing is where the president of the United States thought he would spend his afternoon?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, Erin, there has certainly been outrage and condemnation from the people across Jordan. As you mentioned there, we saw those huge protests yesterday, not only in response to that horrifying attack that we saw on the Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza, but in response to the prospect of U.S. President Joe Biden attending this summit in Jordan.

We know, of course, the U.S. has expressed its staunch solidarity with Israel unwavering support for Israel. And that has really struck a sense of anger here in the Middle East, particularly as we continue to see these horrifying images of the civilian toll inside Gaza, particularly following that attack on the Al-Ahli Hospital.

[07:25:04]

And as you can imagine, we've heard from Hamas, we've heard from Palestinian authorities. And in the eyes of many Arab leaders, the blame for this attack has been placed squarely on Israel. They accuse Israel of launching an airstrike on this hospital, which, as we know, did not just contain patients and medics, but also many Palestinian families who were displaced and were taking shelter in this hospital.

But as we know, of course, Israel has denied any responsibility or involvement in this attack. They placed the blame on Islamic Jihad, who they say carried out a failed rocket launch.

But, of course, as we've seen here, this has really manifested in the form of huge protests. We saw those demonstrations last night in Amman going into the early hours of the morning, hundreds gathered towards the Israeli embassy, some even attempting to storm the Israeli embassy. And we are expecting to see further protests across the capital today.

It's important to underscore the context here, of course, because in Jordan, around 50 percent of the population are either Palestinian or of Palestinian descent.

But it's not just in Jordan where we are seeing these protests. And I should note this isn't the first time we've seen protests. In fact, we've seen protests across the Middle East in solidarity with the Palestinian people against the killing of Palestinian civilians inside the besieged Gaza Strip since the beginning of this war across the Middle East.

We saw protests in Lebanon, in Tunisia, which are ongoing right now, in Iraq, and, of course, in the occupied West Bank in Ramallah. And this is only going to continue to intensify as we continue to see Israel's aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip, and in particular, as we continue to see civilian areas inside Gaza coming under fire.

BURNETT: All right. Nada, thank you very much. And to Nada's point about the population of Jordan, half being Palestinian, of course, the Queen of Jordan, Queen Rania, is Palestinian. She has spoken out forcefully for Gaza civilians and been extremely critical of Israel's response in an early Twitter post a few days ago.

Joining us now, are Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour and CNN Anchor Kaitlan Collins. They are both with me.

And, Kaitlan, let me just start with you, because you were there when Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu gave that statement. What does Biden still think he can get done here this afternoon?

COLLINS: Well, they have a lot that they would like to get done. Of course, what is achievable here when it comes to the humanitarian part, given he is not going to have that in-person meeting with the leaders of Egypt and Jordan is still a really big question.

White House officials sounded very hopeful on Air Force One on the way here. They decided the work that Secretary Blinken has been doing en route. But, obviously, a lot has changed. And the way the circumstances were when President Biden was taking off from Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington is not what the White House had hoped to be the dynamic.

This is already a really risky, challenging, complicated visit for President Biden. The White House has not denied that. They recognize that. And it was made even more so by what happened at this hospital in Gaza.

And I should note, Erin, that in the room where President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu are right now, which is just next door to where I'm standing here at this hotel in Tel Aviv, Prime Minister Netanyahu brought this up. He blamed a Palestinian terrorist group for that explosion. He said the world is rightfully outraged by what they saw happen. But he said that outrage should not be directed at Israel.

And, of course, we know those denials that have come from the IDF. Those are denials that President Biden has accepted and emphasized here, citing based on what he's seen, not saying specifically what evidence it was that the president saw, but it was certainly something that he tasked his team with looking into.

But, clearly, Prime Minister Netanyahu is addressing that because he said that this is going to be a long road to victory. That was his quote just a few moments ago when reporters were in the room. But he said that Israel will work to avoid targeting civilians, including civilians, of course, as they are striking Gaza right now.

That, of course, is at the center of all this. He knows that the U.S. is going to face pressure if images like that continue to happen. That's a big question of what's happening and what's being said when the reporters aren't in the room, of course. BURNETT: Absolutely. As you point out, I mean, we see what we see, and we know they have a long friendship and obviously very candid one.

But, Christiane, the reality of it is, is we know that the Israelis are pounding Gaza daily with hundreds of airstrikes to prepare the ground for their next steps. However, they're going to define any sort of ground incursion or what that next step may be. But you have that. It doesn't -- it seems impossible to avoid more horrific things like this happening if you don't enable people to leave and aid to come in.

And at least, as we know it, there has been no progress on those fronts. Someone was telling me last night, the husband of a doctor we've been speaking to, an American doctor stuck in southern Gaza, Christiane, that she says they have three days left of water and they're rationing it at the U.N. compound. I mean, that's at the U.N. compound.

AMANPOUR: Yes, Erin, and those are the lucky ones because even food is about to run out there. According to the U.N. who works down there, shops are going to run out of food in a few days and water.