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Biden In Israel After Deadly Hospital Blast Roils Region; Video Geolocated By CNN Shows Moment Of Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast; Today: Jim Jordan Faces Second Round Of Voting For Speaker. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, Erin, and those are the lucky ones because even food is about to run out there. According to the U.N. who works down there, shops are going to run out of food in a few days. And water -- apparently, they get it exclusively, almost, by bottled water that has to come in from the ground. You know, so, from those trucks from Egypt through the Rafah border crossing, which is not open.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT": Yeah.

AMANPOUR: So these are very, very difficult life-sustaining issues that certainly -- I spoke to the Egyptian foreign minister yesterday. Certainly, they hope that at the very minimum, President Biden could get an agreement from Israel to open up access to humanitarian aid and to further secure the Palestinian civilian life.

As I said, it is practically if not completely unprecedented that an American president arrives in the region and then gets canceled by a very, very important Arab coalition of allies. Allies not just of the United States but actually, allies of Israel. That would be Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority, all of whom are declared allies and have peace treaties with Israel.

So this is a really, really difficult thing. And clearly, given what we're hearing -- and we have been hearing before this disaster in Gaza -- before this latest disaster in Gaza, we've been hearing very, very strong narrative of what's going to happen from all the Israeli officials -- whether they are the prime minister, the IDF, the prime minister's spokespeople -- that this is the sharp, hard end of the spear. That they are going in because this is different than it's ever been.

But, of course, with that comes a lot of warnings from many military analysts, many former militaries, current military officials that this will be massively difficult. And because it is in an urban environment, trying to separate the enemy -- the terrorists from the people is going to be incredibly difficult. So we are going to see more and more of this kind of mass casualties. We are going to see it if the past is any prelude to what's about to unfold.

Secondly, we have experience. We have experience in Fallujah, in Mosul. We have experience in Raqqa. We know how difficult ground wars are. And people are warning the Israelis that in the -- in the heat, in the emotion and the anger of having been attacked on 9/11, the United States went into a highly misguided war in Iraq for which it is still paying.

BURNETT: Yes.

AMANPOUR: For which there were tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed --

BURNETT: Yes.

AMANPOUR: -- and tens of thousands of Americans killed and wounded. And this is -- this is a very similar narrative to what's unfolding between Israel and Hamas right now.

BURNETT: Yes.

And you talk about that Iraq war -- a war that, of course, has had such existential change to the United States. Even when you think about the financial situation and where the world is right now, much of it can be traced back to that moment and that decision, Christiane.

Thank you so much, Christiane and Kaitlan.

And we're going to be joined by the IDF spokesman next with more of our continued coverage continuing here on the origins of the hospital blast in Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:35:08]

BURNETT: Welcome back. I'm Erin Burnett live in Tel Aviv, Israel.

Just into CNN this morning, CNN has geolocated video and this video shows the moment of the deadly hospital blast in Gaza. The sky lights up. It is an incredibly massive blast. It erupts on the hospital grounds sending a huge cloud of smoke into the air.

Now, this is video. We know what this video is of. We do not -- from our analysis, at this point, we're not able to independently verify what caused that blast. But we pause to consider that massive explosion and how much human life we are looking at expire in the instant that we replay. Hundreds of people are dead.

Joining me now is IDF spokesman, Major Doron Spielman. And Major, I very much appreciate your time. Obviously, I was with you the other day at a military base looking at some of the weapons that you have seized from Hamas.

I want to begin by asking you your reaction when you look at that video and you see that massive explosion. I know you've seen it yourself from your own sources, but we're showing it to the world now. In that moment of an explosion, hundreds of people die. How do you react to that? MAJOR DORON SPIELMAN, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES (via Webex by Cisco): Well, first of all, if we look at this entire war that we're looking at right now, even if we go back to the very beginning, it was the senseless massacre of Israeli civilians. In this case, it's Gazan civilians that were massacred once again by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The loss of any civilian -- man, woman, or child -- wherever they are in the world is an enormous tragedy.

However, when I see that video what I understand, once again, is how Hamas is trying to play the entire world. It goes back to the ISIS playbook. They committed that atrocity. It was their rocket. We have clearly proven this to the world. And yet, Hamas, right away, without having any proof whatsoever, announced to the world that it was Israeli, and the world ran with this in the media.

And my question is and our question is how could the world take Hamas as a credible source when we saw the massacre of men, women, and babies just over a week ago? This was Hamas. It has their fingerprints on it. It is them who shot this rocket.

BURNETT: Major, I know that you have put out what Israel says is the proof of this -- the intercepted communications where you have people directly saying that this landed on a hospital. You have that. You've put that out.

You've also put out your view -- your trajectories. I'm sorry, I was looking for the right word. Trajectory of rockets that were coming out and showing that 450 rockets fired by Jihadist groups in Gaza have misfired and landed in Gaza since this war began 12 days ago.

Major, just a very simple question. Do you feel confident that every single rocket coming out of Gaza -- every single one -- that you know where it's coming from and obviously, generally, where it's going because of your Iron Dome? Do you feel that you have 100 percent visibility?

SPIELMAN: So, first of all, what I can tell you is 100 percent -- every rocket coming out of Gaza is aimed at innocent Israeli civilians. Not a single one of them is aimed at a military target. They're aimed at our cities.

They're aimed at mothers and fathers and children having breakfast in their home. They're aimed at hundreds of thousands and millions of Israelis who are constantly under attack. And that is where those rockets are aimed.

We have invested a ton of resources higher than any other location in the entire world in trying to pinpoint rockets and trying to disable them. That's where my tax dollars go.

In the Gaza Strip, their funds and their tax dollars, and the money they get from Iran is going into rockets, not into protecting their civilians. That is the enormous moral divide between Israel, who is concerned with its own civilians, and Hamas, who are trying to kill as many civilians. And at the same time, put their own civilians at risk. This was clearly a Hamas and Islamic Jihad rocket. It was fired at

6:59. You don't need us to talk about it. I'm holding up this piece of paper. This is an Al Jazeera screenshot. Al Jazeera was running live.

Now, no one is going to say that Al Jazeera are going to be marching in any parades on behalf of the state of Israel or that they're (INAUDIBLE).

Al Jazeera, on live footage, showed the rocket taking off from Gaza, showed the explosion just around the same time -- just a minute or two before Hamas went out and claimed to the world that this was an Israeli attack. There were no Israeli weapons fired in that area whatsoever.

We released audio footage of two Hamas terrorists speaking between themselves in Arabic in which they acknowledge that they realize it's a rocket of Islamic Jihad that landed on the hospital.

This is the fingerprint of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. They were the ones who committed this. And what I can be 100 percent sure about is that they will never tell you the truth if they shot this on their own civilians.

BURNETT: Major, I want to be very clear though from what you're saying because I don't want to -- I don't want to hear something that you're implying that you may not be trying to imply.

[07:40:00]

But when you say that Al Jazeera was broadcasting live, the sort of implication some might take away was that was this intentional? Are you trying to say this was intentional in any way or is your view as the IDF that this was fired by Islamic Jihad but you do believe that it was accidental?

SPIELMAN: This was -- no. What we are saying is that this was fired by Islamic Jihad towards Israel to kill Israeli civilians. If you follow the course of the rocket --

BURNETT: OK.

SPIELMAN: -- you can see that it malfunctions very soon after takeoff. It lands almost a few hundred -- maybe a kilometer or a few hundred yards from where it was took off. And because the fuel was in the engine still -- because it had not reached its target in Israel to kill Israeli civilians -- the blast was enormous.

We also can confirm by that audio conversation between the two Hamas operatives that they're saying -- one is saying to the other it was fired by Islamic Jihad in the cemetery behind the hospital. And the other one was asking are you sure? He says yes, and it landed on top of the hospital.

Take Israel out of the picture. You have Al Jazeera footage. You have Hamas operatives discussing this. We know from our own radar the trajectory of the rocket. This was a Hamas and Islamic Jihad rocket. What I don't understand is when it comes to Israel and we claim that babies were beheaded and bodies were mutilated, the whole world asked us to prove this. We have to go to enormous strides to try to prove the death of civilians.

Here, in Gaza, when Islamic Jihad bombs their own citizens people take this without any proof whatsoever. The double standard here is incredibly upsetting for us on the Israel side.

BURNETT: All right, Major. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Major Doron Spielman joining us -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thank you very much.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a live look in Tel Aviv where President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are set to deliver remarks shortly behind the scenes meetings -- very consequential meetings right now. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:46:00]

HARLOW: President Biden is on the ground in Israel right now where moments ago he reaffirmed U.S. support for Israel as it strikes back against Hamas. Listen to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will continue to have Israel's back because you work to defend your people. We'll continue to work with you and partners across the region to prevent more tragedy to innocent civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The president expected to speak again soon. Of course, we'll bring you that live as soon as it begins.

Meanwhile, in just a couple of hours, the United Nations Security Council will hold an open meeting on the unfolding crisis in the Middle East. The blast at Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza that killed hundreds of people yesterday will, of course, be a major focus of that U.N. meeting.

In its aftermath, protests have erupted -- huge protests. Those are cities across the Middle East that you see on your screen.

Officials in Gaza blame Israel. The IDF says, as you just heard in that interview with Erin, that it was an Islamic Jihad rocket from within Gaza.

Israeli-Palestinian journalist and foreign policy analyst Rula Jebreal joins us now. She also has loved ones both in Israel and in East Jerusalem. Rula, thank you for being here on a day where there is just such a significant turn of events. The fact that Mahmoud Abbas pulled out of a planned meeting with

President Biden; then it was just canceled. He will, we understand, speak on the phone on the way back from Israel with President El-Sisi and also King Abdullah.

Why do you think that this was canceled, and what is the significance of them not meeting face-to-face?

RULA JEBREAL, JOURNALIST, FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST, VISITING PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: Good morning, Poppy.

I think it's very significant. I think three leaders in the region -- Israel's allies, America's allies -- the biggest recipients of military aid from the U.S., both Egypt and Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority canceling together.

It wants to send a signal to the Americans, especially to this administration, we told you without a political solution we would be here. They've been warning the administration. They were begging and pleading with the administration to intervene not now, but even last year when the event around the Aqsa mosque were happening. Where during Ramadan people were being attacked and harassed by both settlers and the army.

They -- I think Arab leaders are frustrated because they see the same approach by the Israelis, backed by the Americans, that this conflict can be managed and can be, in any way, contained without a political solution, which they indicate as the main reason why we are here at the fifth round. This is the fifth war in Gaza.

HARLOW: Right.

JEBREAL: They are deeply frustrated. They are very angry because they feel ignored.

HARLOW: Rula, we heard President Biden say this morning, quote, "We have to also bear in mind that Hamas does not represent all of the Palestinian people and has brought them only suffering."

Do you think that there is anything President Biden can do on the ground in Israel and can say when we hear from him shortly that will prevent this from spreading into a far more grave regional conflict?

JEBREAL: I think yes. And I think there is -- the real question is this is going to become an American war absent a political solution. President Biden can relaunch the initiatives that the Arabs themselves suggested to the Americans in 2002 -- the Arab initiative recognizing Israel in exchange of ending military occupation of the West Bank that have been lasting for 57 years, Poppy.

And if he could put on the table not only ceasefire, humanitarian aide, but some political initiative, meaning we now really want to empower the Palestinian Authority that recognizes Israel that cooperate on security with Israel.

I mean, Abbas, yesterday -- people marched in Ramallah asking for his -- you know, they want him gone because they feel that Abbas never delivered to them.

[07:50:02]

So I think President Biden can salvage the situation by proposing -- by saying something about an eventual political solution that needs to happen now. Not before the military operation ends but now, simultaneously, exactly like Rabin. When President -- when Prime Minister Rabin used to be prime minister of Israel he used to say that he has a double-track strategy. Negotiate and settle politically while fighting extremists.

HARLOW: Rula, you have emphasized the critical importance, especially in the media, of making extremely clear the distinction between the civilians -- the Palestinian civilians who live in Gaza and Hamas.

This is something that struck me that we heard from President Biden earlier this morning -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The Palestinians who are innocent caught in the middle of this. The world's looking. We -- Israel has a value set like the United States does and other democracies, and they're looking to see what we're going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The world is watching and Israel has a value set that reflects the value set of America is what he is saying.

Why is it crucial to hear that from him in this moment while he's there sitting next to Netanyahu?

JEBREAL: I think President Biden heard also Israeli military on American television and also leaders blur the distinction, especially the president. President Herzog, who is a moderate -- or viewed as moderate saying there's no civilians, meaning -- and this is why a lot of people don't believe what happened in Gaza because precisely of this statement. A statement that there's no civilians in Gaza. The army, I believe, some military official two days ago on CNN said we are not fighting Hamas but we are fighting civilians.

So these kind of statements complicate President Biden's mission but also in the eyes of Palestinians and the wider region -- the people who are protesting in Jordan, and Turkey, and Egypt -- they are telling us we look at the statements and the deeds of the Israelis and we don't believe what happened.

Also, they indicate and they are telling us look, it happened in 1996 when Israel struck a U.N. compound in Lebanon. They said it was Hezbollah and then it turned out that it was Israel.

So they point out to these statements and they jump to a conclusion. And this, sadly, can become an America's war and this is what President Biden I think is trying to prevent.

HARLOW: Rula Jebreal, I so appreciate your perspective and your analysis. Thank you very much.

JEBREAL: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, we are continuing our team coverage of a very volatile and consequential day in the Middle East, but we're also keeping an eye on Washington. If at first you don't succeed, you can try again, and again, and again. Jim Jordan heads to the House floor again where he'll be facing a second vote for speaker this afternoon. We'll have the latest.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:55:15]

MATTINGLY: It's a beautiful day in Washington unless you're a member of the House Republican Conference. In just a few hours, we think we're going to have round two for Congressman Jim Jordan in the speaker race. It has been more than two weeks now since they've had an elected speaker. The Ohio lawmaker will be facing his second vote. He lost the first vote yesterday after 20 of his fellow Republicans voted against him.

The late-night shows having a bit of a field day with it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": Republicans couldn't agree on the Speaker of the House. They were unable to elect Jim Jordan, yeah. They did this once before with Kevin McCarthy where it took 15 votes to get elected. So only 14 more rounds to go. Hang in there, Jim. You can -- you can do it, Jimbo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining us now is CNN political commentator, Alyssa Farah Griffin. She was a former White House communications director to Donald Trump. Also, a former spokesperson for the Freedom Caucus.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yeah, Jim Jordan -- yes.

MATTINGLY: -- and Jim Jordan.

HARLOW: Does he like that nickname? I don't think he likes that nickname.

GRIFFIN: Jimbo.

MATTINGLY: Jimbo. I don't think -- you probably never called him that.

So I -- honestly, to cut straight to it, I want to know how this ends. My sense last night from talking to folks on the Hill is that he was actually (INAUDIBLE) more support. It didn't seem like it was going to head in his direction.

So what happens now?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, Jim Jordan is facing a tremendous uphill battle. I would expect to see more defections if they take -- when they take this to the floor later today. But his team says they're still in it. They've been trying to rankle with some of the moderate members and see if there's some deals that can be cut.

But here's the thing is I think for a lot of the moderates -- sure, there's some personal animus for Jim Jordan but he, to them, is sort of reflective of the obstructionism that they've seen in the House that has brought the conference to a screeching halt. Even though Jim, himself, supported McCarthy, they see him as part of what created the Matt Gaetzes of the world.

I would suspect this goes to a vote. I don't see how they are there. But the reality is no one has -- no Republican has 217 votes in the House. I'm hearing from more members that actually extending Patrick McHenry's power --

HARLOW: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: -- as speaker pro temp is more likely to happen.

HARLOW: Right.

Hakeem Jeffries has had positive things to say about McHenry. Well, I mean, you'd need Democrats, right, to be able to do this until -- one of the proposals from a Republican was until November 17, right --

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

HARLOW: -- to keep the government open.

What would that actually look like?

GRIFFIN: It's really just about, like, keeping the lights on -- the functioning. Having committee work continue. And, of course, he's got about 30 days out to deal with government funding.

Patrick McHenry is generally liked. He's a lot more of just sort of a legislative wheeler and dealer than a showman. He's not a right-wing firebrand by any means.

So I think that may end up being where we go because take Jim Jordan out of this. There's not someone you put up -- you know, Byron Donalds might throw his name in and Elise Stefanik. Those votes are not there. This just underscores how broken the House Republican Conference is. It's all coming to a head.

But this does test the theory that conservatives, myself included probably 10 years ago, had that perhaps if we put up one of the most conservative members we could get the House in order. It could run the way that we promised our voters. That does not exist. You cannot have 20 people or 18 who won Biden districts and also keep the Matt Gaetz's and the Freedom Caucus guys happy. There's got to be somebody in the middle that people can support but it doesn't exist. MATTINGLY: The beauty of Jim Jordan having to rely on trying to make

backroom deals with moderates to become Speaker of the House -- it knows no bounds.

I think more broadly, does this actually matter in terms of politically? In terms of where 2024 is headed. You hear from DCCC and all Democrats that this is going to be -- this shows everything. This is the perfect contrast. Does this resonate?

GRIFFIN: I think it matters for the House.

MATTINGLY: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: I think if you're a Mike Lawler, you're a Don Bacon, you're somebody in a swing district, it's really hard to make the case that you should be reelected when -- which, by the way, both of those men I think should be reelected.

But when the conference doesn't even work -- when Congress has basically been at a standstill for two days, I think it jeopardizes the House majority. It doesn't have bigger bearings than that. Donald Trump endorsed Jim Jordan and that still didn't get him the numbers. But it is -- it does jeopardize the House Republican majority in a very big way.

And by the way, if I may say, this all happening while America's closest ally in the Middle East is at war -- it's so unserious. It is petty. It is something that just needs to be resolved.

MATTINGLY: Yeah.

HARLOW: It's shocking to me that this moment has not apparently changed the willingness to give here to get a speaker. Are you surprised by that?

GRIFFIN: Correct. If Israel and -- yes. If Israel coming under a terrorist attack and being in a state of war with Hamas is not a sobering moment where we say --

HARLOW: And Biden's there. The U.S. president is there.

GRIFFIN: It's -- the juxtaposition is stunning. It is -- it's just unserious is the best word I can come up with.

And by the way, the House Republican Conference is still largely, by and large, pro-Israel so you would think this would be a moment to stand up. That's why I think it ends up likely going to McHenry.

MATTINGLY: Just keeping the lights on. That is the type of aspirational goals we --

GRIFFIN: Leadership we all need.

MATTINGLY: -- want our lawmakers to pursue.

Alyssa, thank you -- GRIFFIN: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: -- as always.

And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

HARLOW: It is the top of the hour. We're so glad you're with us on this.