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New Video Backs Up IDF Account of Missile Originating Within Gaza; Biden Shares Details about Israel Trip. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:15]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. We're glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett live with us again on the ground in Tel Aviv, Israel.

And overnight, President Biden returning to Washington after a trip in the war zone in Israel. Today, he is getting ready to give a primetime address to the nation, as he pushes for wartime aid to Israel and Ukraine.

But Congress is paralyzed right now, with no speaker of the House, so passing an aid package is impossible at the moment.

President Biden says he clinched a deal with Egypt's president to start allowing trucks with desperately-needed humanitarian aid across into Gaza, where millions of civilians are stuck inside that war zone and running out of food, water and medicine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you have an opportunity to alleviate the pain, you should do it, period. And if you don't, you're going to lose credibility worldwide. And I don't think everyone understands that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: The president also says U.S. intelligence backs up Israel's claim that a malfunctioning rocket fired by Palestinian militants caused the deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza, not an Israeli airstrike.

We want to show you some new video -- you're looking at it right now -- that has emerged. It's recorded by Al Jazeera. It appears to show a rocket fired from Gaza. If you watch it, it will make a sharp turn back, right there, toward where it came from, just moments before the explosion at the hospital.

If you wait, you will see the flash right there. And CNN has geolocated a video where you can hear whatever that was. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INCOMING MISSILE FIRE)

(EXPLOSION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN cannot independently verify what caused the blast.

Meanwhile, Israel continues to pummel Gaza with airstrikes. The Palestinian Red Crescent released this video you're watching right now, with huge explosions near a different hospital last night, where it says thousands of people are sheltering.

HARLOW: Let's go straight to Erin Burnett. She is live in Tel Aviv.

Erin, good morning to you. That is significant, the Al Jazeera video, on top of what CNN has geolocated, the IDF pointing to that Al Jazeera video, right, as additional evidence that, they say, This was not us.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: They are, absolutely. Because in that video, you do see the rocket go up and -- and then sharply turn around. I mean, if you put it in slow motion, you can actually see that.

So that was actually broadcast right, as you point out, live on Al Jazeera. So they're pointing to that. The United States, as you just said, Phil, has said that it's confirmed that this was not fired from Israel. And they have pointed themselves to missile -- missile intelligence, as well as signals intelligence. That could be indications like heat and light on the ground.

But they're saying they've come to their own independent conclusion, although it is unclear whether the signals intelligence they're referring to is the same phone call that the IDF has put out.

But they are making it very clear, the United States, that they have reached their own conclusion that this was not Israel's fault. And as the president of the United States said on his way back on Air Force One from leaving Israel last night, he said he doesn't think that it was done on purpose by Islamic Jihad either. But that nonetheless, they were the ones who did it.

I want to bring in the IDF spokesman, Major Doron Spielman, this morning.

And Major, good to speak with you again on this morning in the United States.

MAJ. DORON SPIELMAN, IDF SPOKESMAN: You, too, Erin.

BURNETT: There -- there are reports from the Palestinian news agency that Israeli airstrikes on the Rafah crossing that we, of course, have talked so much about, has killed 30 people. Are you able -- able to tell us anything about those strikes?

SPIELMAN: I have no -- I have no information that such a thing took place, I will just say. And I'll, of course, check it and get back to you. I would take this as an example that, if in fact, that did happen, the

IDF will come forward and confirm. I have no information. This is the first that I'm hearing this, right here on the air.

However, we have to be very cautious about reporting on these types of events. As we learned, and you just reported just now about the hospital, immediately, Hamas went out and announced to the entire world, within seconds of that happening, that we, Israel, did it.

BURNETT: Yes.

SPIELMAN: We went through a very professional process of showing that it wasn't us. So we just have to be very careful, and I -- we will look into that.

BURNETT: Just to be clear, though, obviously, in the hundreds of targets that Israel is striking a day in Gaza, it would make sense. I know some of them have been down near that Southern border, because you have your own security. There are strategic reasons for doing that, whether you think that's linked to terrorists or whatever your reasons may be.

[06:05:09]

Just to be clear, so we all understand, Major, that there would be possible targets for Israel in the South of Gaza and by that Rafah border?

SPIELMAN: Look, what I can tell you, Erin, is that as we know, you have two -- a game here played by two different people, two different rules. All of our targets are military targets, every single one of them. At times, those targets are incredibly difficult to reach, because Hamas is putting civilians in our way.

This is the issue that's going on here. I don't think it's reasonable to assume anything. I think we have to check the facts on the ground. I do not trust any Hamas sources whatsoever.

And I think we have to verify all outside sources.

BURNETT: All right.

SPIELMAN: I can tell you, we're going -- taking painstaking steps, including delaying everything that we're doing by five days for the humanitarian corridor --

BURNETT: Yes.

SPIELMAN: -- for Gazan civilians to reach the South. And Hamas is holding them at gunpoint in their homes.

BURNETT: Last night, a Gaza doctor, Dr. Hasam Abu Zafaiya (ph), spoke to our show to say what he's experiencing. It was a very, very brief sound bite, Major, because honestly, there's weak Internet connection at his hospital, and to conserve power on his phone. So it was very short. But he talked -- no water, no electricity, no medications; our situation is very, very, very bad. His voice is utterly exhausted. I mean, you can tell. And then he had to abruptly hang up.

How -- how urgent, in your view, is aid and assistance to Gaza?

SPIELMAN: Look, again, I want to say very clearly, and I will answer your question, that this is a direct outcome of Hamas's raid inside Israel. We have to go back to where this began because the IDF did not just wake up 13 days ago and decide to go into Gaza.

Hamas crossed our border and created a horrific -- a horrific violation of human rights by massacring our population. We're responding like any country would respond.

And I understand, as much as we're doing for the Gazan civilians, it must be incredibly difficult right now. There is a -- as the reporting -- a difficulty getting supplies.

And from our side, what we understand, is first of all, we're working towards that aid reaching them. But we have to understand that historically, that aid has gone to Hamas operatives.

You and I both saw a shoulder-fired grenade launcher that was made out of humanitarian supplies, building supplies, when I showed you those armaments a few days ago. They've taken a lot of these supplies.

BURNETT: Yes.

SPIELMAN: And we don't want the terrorists to benefit from them.

So it's not a simple situation. It's going to take time. And we have to make sure it gets to the actual civilians who need it and not to the terrorists.

BURNETT: And we did see that. And what you have gathered is stunning, from the attack itself.

I understand that the number of confirmed families who may have hostages in Gaza, we had been talking about 150. Then the IDF said 199. I understand this morning, Major, that that number has increased to 203.

Obviously, we've been speaking to many of those families. I spoke to one of them, the Regevs. They have both their son and daughter, who were at that festival. They saw their son in a video from Hamas. Their daughter, they thought, was dead. And they've been waiting for information.

Obviously, these families, many of them, have incredible frustration at the Israeli government, as well, because they want answers. I just wanted to play something that Ilan Regev said to me, the father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: The Army, did they tell you they think Maya was with -- ILAN REGEV, SON AND DAUGHTER KIDNAPPED: They don't say -- don't tell us nothing.

MIRIT REGEV, SON AND DAUGHTER KIDNAPPED: We don't know what's with Maya, because we don't have video for Maya. In two days. What did Maya? What did Maya?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Major, obviously, their grief and their -- it's profound, as you know.

They did say that on Monday, this Monday, they got a call from the IDF saying that the IDF knows that Maya, their daughter, is a hostage.

So my question to you, Major, is, I know you're not going to be able to tell us how you know these things, but is it safe to say Israel does know a lot about these hostages and where they are and their condition, if families are still getting calls this week saying that Israel has confirmed their family members are hostages?

SPIELMAN: So first of all, I very much appreciate you bringing the -- Itai and Maya, their family to the screen. It is incredibly horrific for all of us.

The information is unfolding as the day goes -- days go on, both positive and negative. Last night in the area of Be'eri, a group of workers went up into an attic, and they found a mother and her 5-year- old son that were burnt to a crisp. I'm sorry to say that on TV. But they were. They died. They were burned alive in the attic trying to hide from the terrorists.

And so, unfortunately, those are now two people that we understand were killed. We didn't know their whereabouts before.

[06:10:06]

On a different note, more and more video, we do see video that Hamas is putting out. More and more people are uploading video. So a picture is starting to emerge, but it's so difficult.

Because even today, we're finding more bodies. There are bodies being uncovered. There are body parts. You have to match DNA. This massacre was so vast. It's a horrifically painful process, mostly for the families but for every Israeli.

BURNETT: Indeed. And in Be'eri the other day, I saw those body bags. And you know, you're still getting bodies out, I think is also a finally horrible thing to say, but important for people to know that missing may not mean hostage at this point.

All right, Major, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

SPIELMAN: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: Major Doron Spielman here in Israel. Phil and Poppy, back to you.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, Erin. We'll get back to you shortly.

But right now, we want to turn to CNN military analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling at the Magic Wall.

This has been a 24-hour period where we have seen the protests. We have seen the scale of the outrage in the Arab world. We've also seen a very significant push on both the Israeli side but also the U.S. side to try and lay out why they believe and why they are -- have assessed that this was not coming from the IDF, the rocket that hit the hospital, but instead came from a militant group in the area.

I want to start with what we kind of saw in terms of the blast and what that tells you. This is kind of an annotated map from "The New York Times" that shows where the blast occurred right here and some of the damage. The severe fire damage where the roof tiles have fallen off. This has been pointed to in conversations I've had with U.S. officials as this could not have been a JDAM. This could not have been an airstrike. Why?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, you see, first of all, you see a very small crater. They do have close-in pictures of where that crater is. And it's just several inches into the ground. It's not the kind of thing you would see with a large JDAM, a 500-pound bomb.

So when that rocket struck, it was probably a 122 millimeter, which is -- I mean, it's a significant blast, but it doesn't cause that kind of damage. There's more shrapnel than anything else.

What we saw in the photos yesterday, the films yesterday, was a large fireball afterward. That's the indicator that there was fuel.

HARLOW: And let's play that, but also listen to the audio.

HERTLING: There is the rocket going up, along the --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MISSILE INCOMING)

(EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: So that's the sound Poppy was referring to. Now we're going to show you the video again that we showed at the start of the show from Al Jazeera and kind of walk people through the sound and this.

HERTLING: Then here's a rocket along a trajectory. Something happens in flight. It loses its power. And then the engine flames out, and it drops. And we were talking about that yesterday, where a rocket that doesn't have forward power anymore turns into the aerodynamic capabilities of a brick. It just drops.

Then it explodes in a very large fireball. Much more than you would expect from a rocket.

MATTINGLY: To the sound point, you know, you're talking about that, but Poppy's question about the sound that we're hearing. Does that tell you anything? Obviously, the drop --

HERTLING: Not really, no. You're going to get that whoosh of a rocket going across the sky. If it's intercepted by an Iron Dome, you're going to hear an explosion. But you don't hear an explosion on this one. It's just -- the rocket fizzles out.

MATTINGLY: One of the things coming out of the president's trip yesterday is the what happens now. We've seen again the protests. We know that Israel is preparing for a significant operation. It seems likely to be likely on the ground.

You pointed to 2014, lessons learned from them about maybe giving a road map, to some degree --

HERTLING: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- of what's next. Walk us through that.

HERTLING: Well, we can, first of all, talk about Israel and what they might do. In 2014, Operation Protective Edge, Israel mobilized 70,000 soldiers. Today they're mobilizing 300,000.

They went in on three directions. One main direction in the North toward Gaza City, but one in the center, one in the South. They fought mostly aboveground and realized the extensiveness of the tunnels that were there.

There were 66 Israeli soldiers killed, 7 Israeli citizens; about 2,100 Palestinians, Hamas, that were killed in that same period, according to the U.N.

So during the ten years since then, there have been several after- action reports, something that militaries and think tanks do. And I -- what I've tried to do on this slide is just combine what it said about Hamas, what they think Hamas is going to do based on reports, based on research, what was successful in 2014.

[06:15:03]

The first thing they said, they're going to try and increase their rockets and expand greatly their tunnels and look for a larger conflict.

In 2014, the conflict lasted 50 days. They're looking to make it last longer this time.

Secondly, they're incorporating new tactics. We've seen -- we saw that on October the 7th. You know, put squads together, go by land, sea and air into the main port. New technologies, anti-tank guided missiles, new types of explosive devices. Get allies, Hezbollah, Syria, others.

But the most important one is they will perfect something they call the victim doctrine. Anything that they can point toward Israel to continue to embarrass them and make them look like the heroes, Hamas will do. They've cited that doctrine several times, and it becomes important in an information age.

MATTINGLY: Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, we appreciate it. Thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks so much.

President Biden held his first on-the-record conversation on Air Force One since his presidency began. We'll be joined by the CNN reporter who talked to him on board.

MATTINGLY: And the president says Egypt has agreed to allow 20 trucks of humanitarian aid to travel into Gaza. Will it be enough? The United Nations says it's not even close. What's next? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: President Biden shared details of his high-stakes wartime visit to Israel with reporters on his way home. It's the first time the president has addressed the press pool on Air Force One since he was inaugurated.

[06:20:02]

He took the opportunity to tout a breakthrough in negotiations with Egyptian President Sisi to allow into Gaza some desperately-needed aid that has been piling up on Egypt's side of Rafah crossing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He agreed that what he would do is open the gate to do two things: one, let up to 20 trucks through to begin with. Sader Field (ph), my ambassador is down there -- not down there, in Cairo now. He's going to coordinate this. He has my authority to do what is needed to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Biden also discussed what he framed as blunt warnings he issued while meeting with Israeli leaders against blocking aid to Palestinians facing an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is live at the White House with more. Kevin, you were on the trip. You were press pool for CNN. You were on Air Force One. You're the person I always talk to with the encyclopedic knowledge of not just this presidency but most presidencies ever.

This is a rarity. This doesn't happen with this president, unlike perhaps some of his predecessors. Why do you think -- why do you think he came back to talk to you guys? KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Certainly, he

had a lot on his mind on this long flight back from Tel Aviv. And it was a surprise to see him sort of pop up in the door of the press cabin. And it's not something that we've seen him do very often.

He had come back to read out that phone call that he had had with the Egyptian president, but really, in listening to him and watching him, he really did want to sort of read out the entire visit. He had a lot on his mind. And he wanted to put in his own words sort of how he felt this historic trip to a war zone had gone.

Because this was not necessarily the trip that he had originally set out to take. It was overshadowed, in some ways, by that devastating hospital bombing in Gaza. He did have to cancel a planned stop in Jordan to meet with Arab leaders.

And I did want to ask him if he was disappointed in that. And I was interested to hear his answer. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Are you disappointed that you had to cancel the stop in Jordan?

BIDEN: No. Disappointed? Look, I came to get something done. I got it done. Not many people thought I could get this done. And not many people want to be associated with failure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So certainly, the president very confident in the outcomes of this trip.

But I think when you talk to aides privately, they do acknowledge that the real results are still in the works. It will not be clear for several days, several weeks potentially, whether this trip was a success; whether the president's advice and warnings to the Israelis about the scope of their response were heeded.

But certainly, I think, the president very confident as he was coming home yesterday, that he was able to secure some accomplishments on this visit, guys.

HARLOW: Kevin, I found that, of course, you asked a great question, but the answer was really candid and illuminating. It was also interesting that he said after that call with the Egyptian president, El-Sisi, quote, "really stepped up, as did Bibi."

But now the proof is, does the aid come through? Right?

LIPTAK: Yes, and that will be seen in the coming hours, really, coming days as these 20 trucks that the president said he had secured potentially start crossing the border into Gaza.

But I think, for the president, you know, the objectives of this trip were not enormous. He did not fly over there to try and broker a cease-fire. He didn't necessarily fly over to try and secure the release of these hostages.

His objective was really to show this utmost support for Israel in this time of national trauma. And you did see that when he was on the ground there, this full-scale embrace of Benjamin -- a literal embrace of Benjamin Netanyahu.

But also these emotional encounters with people who had been touched by the events; by a grandmother who had been barricaded at gunpoint by a man, who recounted these horrific traumas, the president really feeling the emotion of the visit.

So I think, certainly, for the Israelis, this was a highly successful visit by the president.

But behind the scenes, I think, you did see the president ask what the White House called these tough questions of Netanyahu, talking about what goes -- happens in the days and weeks ahead.

And you heard him afterwards come out, deliver kind of an extraordinary statement, talking about the mistakes that the United States made after 9/11; talking about the importance of having clarity going forward.

Certainly, it's very easy to hear and imagine the president asking Netanyahu that in private, as well.

MATTINGLY: Kevin, can you take us behind the scenes? This was not just -- his 9/11 comments were extraordinary; this trip itself was extraordinary.

It is a war zone. It is an active war zone. It's the first time a U.S. president has visited Israel in the middle of a war. The decision to do this happened over a very short period of time.

You weren't allowed to tell us where you were most of the time, which is rare for a pool reporter. What was happening behind the scenes from your vantage point?

LIPTAK: Yes. And I think heading into this trip, what the White House had seen were these previous leaders, including Secretary of State Blinken, but also the German chancellor, when they arrived in Tel Aviv, they heard air raid sirens. There was sort of evidence of this conflict at close range.

[06:25:10]

And in fact, when we were flying over, we got this briefing from White House staff about what to do if an air raid siren goes off when you're standing next to Air Force One, when you're in the motorcade. That has never happened before, obviously.

When we're on the ground, things actually seemed relatively calm. As the motorcade was going through Tel Aviv, we saw people on the beach playing volleyball. We saw people taking a jog.

And so the president necessarily didn't see the conflict at close range, but certainly, he heard about it from all of his encounters while he was there.

MATTINGLY: All right. It's a heck of a 24 hours. Kevin Liptak, we appreciate you bringing it to us. Thank you.

HARLOW: So let's go to our chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, the president said very clearly, I came to get something done. I got it done. What do you think he got done?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I just want to say that I spoke to one of the former senior State Department officials on the program yesterday, and he said the president was delivered a very bad hand, which he played very skillfully.

So in other words, not raising all the expectations. But yes, this -- this idea of unblocking the Rafah crossing is paramount, really, really important.

But remember, it is only a test. It's 20 vehicles and apparently won't be able to go in until tomorrow. At least that's the start. They do have to fix roads, because there have been Israeli airstrikes.

So it's not even fuel, we understand, coming in. Which is what all the humanitarians tell us is vitally necessary to, you know, purify water, to run hospitals, to do all those kinds of humanitarian needs.

But if those 20 trucks do come in, then that will be important. This is what the U.N.'s chief humanitarian official told me yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN GRIFFITHS, U.N. UNDER-SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: It's the safety of aid, which is as important as its dependability. We can do it because we have the aid. We have the people. We have the trucks, and we certainly have the will.

You know, UNRWA has 14,000 staff still in Gaza: 14,000 staff who haven't left are still there working bravely, along with many, many others. And the -- and these people are available to deliver according to the usual mandate.

We need clarity about the circumstances of that aid program, and then we need to get moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So urgent, obviously, and of course, the conditions are that none of it can be diverted to Hamas. But don't forget also that Palestinians who have been told to move from the North are under bombardment still in the South occasionally. They're asking where is a safe zone? Where can we hide, even if we want to get away from the air strikes?

So it's still a very, very dire situation. And remember, 20 trucks is just a test. It's a fraction of what they need on a daily basis. MATTINGLY: Christiane, Kevin Liptak just made a great point. The

extraordinary statement and President Biden's remarks after his visit with the prime minister, with his war cabinet, about the mistakes, in his view, that were made in the wake of 9/11, basically saying, Don't let the -- the rage consume you in this moment, despite the fact everyone can identify with the why. Why do you think he said that?

AMANPOUR: Well, because he knows what happened. The backlash of that war in Iraq, even -- even the post war in Afghanistan continues to reverberate all across the world and across the United States, as well.

And so he did say, Don't let rage blind you to what is justice and accountability. And remember, this is a warning -- I'm paraphrasing -- a warning from a friend, advice from a friend that what we did was mistaken in many, many aspects.

Look at Afghanistan after 20 years. It is now back in the hands of Islamic extremists. Those are the Taliban. Look at Iraq. It is still unstable. Look at that whole region that the -- the U.S. and Britain.

Here the papers are covered with this warning. That seems to be the big takeaway, because Britain went into that Iraq war, as well, and is continuing to -- to suffer the consequences like the rest of the world.

So these -- this was an extraordinary comment to be made, advice to a friend, because in previous rounds in the Gaza-Israel wars, it's always hardened and more militarized and more militancy has come out of each one of those.

HARLOW: Yes, certainly. And as Phil was saying before, if he said that in public, imagine what he may have said to that effect to Netanyahu behind closed doors.

Christiane, we'll get back to you soon. Thank you very much.

MATTINGLY: A new CNN investigation reveals a trove of highly-specific Hamas battle plans, including detailed maps, that were found on the bodies of Hamas militants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They knew, basically, the size of our security team. They knew about other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like they knew everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They knew everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:30:00]