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Hamas Had Detailed Information for Attack; Holloway Murder Solved; Rep. Jonathan Jackson (D-IL) is Interviewed about Israel. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

YARDEN RESKIN, KIBBUTZ MEFALSIM RESIDENT: They knew about other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like they knew everything.

RESKIN: They knew everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Erin Burnett, live in Tel Aviv this morning.

President Biden is back in the United States after make that historic trip here. He is now getting ready to give a prime-time speech to the nation tonight. Biden expected to push for wartime aid to both Israel and Ukraine.

It is a big, encompassing speech. It is going to be about American values and what these wars stand for. The president hoping to deter wider escalation.

Right now, the Israeli military says there has been a, quote, significant escalation, not in Gaza, but by Hezbollah in the north, coming from Lebanon, in a growing battle there. The IDF says Hezbollah has fired numerous anti-tank missiles from Lebanon into Israel, where there has been a massive buildup of Israeli forces along that northern border. They also say that Hezbollah forces have attempted infiltrations actually physically into Israel with forces.

Meanwhile, pro-Palestinian protests continue across the Middle East and, frankly, around the world, in the U.S. and Europe. The demonstrations ramping up since the hospital explosion in Gaza, even though Israel has denied responsibility for the blast and provided evidence to make that clear.

We are learning that the precision of Hamas' assault on Israel, though, was no accident. In fact, we've got video and documents obtained by CNN that show that the militant group had a shocking amount of detailed information about the Israeli communities where they slaughtered more than 1,400 people. In fact, you just heard the IDF moments ago telling us they found two people last night in an attic in Be'eri. A mother and child huddled together burnt to a crisp.

And the material, we understand, includes detailed attack plans, specific information about security and homes and even the best places to hold hostages.

Now, we do caution you that some of the images here that we've obtained are graphic.

CNN's Matthew Chance is live in northern Israel with more this morning.

So, Matthew, I guess let's just start with how Hamas got all this information and, obviously, you know, what it is. And, clearly, it took a long - a long time to put all this together.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it took a long time for Hamas to collect all this information. There are ways - the ways in which they do that - did that are still being looked at. But, you know, we spent a week collecting all these various reports and bits of intelligence together from Israeli government officials. One of the sources there. First responders from Israel and, of course, Israeli who were witnessed - who witnessed the attacks at first hand. We built up this really disturbing picture of the amount of intelligence that Hamas had acquired on the Israeli communities they attacked or targeted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice over): CNN has gathered chilling, new insights and details on the Hamas assault inside Israel, including disturbing video taken by the attackers themselves as they rampaged through Israeli homes, killing on site, and then being killed.

[06:35:12]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

CHANCE: Searches of their dead bodies revealing a trove of highly specific Hamas battle plans, including these detailed maps, now shared with CNN by the Israeli government, showing communities near Gaza, like Kfar Aza, targeted by the attackers. These were the terrifying scenes inside as Hamas gun recorded themselves moving freely through the gardens of Israeli homes.

Code red, code red, the Israeli loud speaker blares in Hebrew, punctuating the sporadic gunfire. After the attack, Israeli first responders saw bullet holes and bloodstains in room after room in what looks like a coldly, methodical killing spree.

CHANCE (on camera): But while hundreds of Israelis were killed, some Israeli communities managed to repel the Hamas gunman and save lives. At kibbutz Mefalsim, also near Gaza, residents pushed back at Hamas attack and found documents on the bodies of the militants they killed with disturbing, highly accurate intelligence on their homes (ph). CHANCE (voice over): Including precise numbers of armed guards there, regional defense force, at least 20 residents, one document reads, and 10 soldiers.

YARDEN RESKIN, KIBBUTZ MEFALSIM RESIDENT: They knew basically the size of our security team. They knew about the other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

CHANCE (on camera): It sounds like they knew everything.

RESKIN: They knew everything. Where the generators are. They knew where the armory is. They knew about rural roads around the kibbutz.

CHANCE (voice over): Security footage shows how Hamas gunmen killed an Israeli outside the kibbutz gates before being repelled. Even with detailed intelligence on their targets, not every Hamas objective was achieved.

Nearby kibbutz Sa'ad wasn't even attacked, although we now have documentary evidence that Hamas intended to inflict the maximum possible human casualties there, and to hold hostages. A highly detailed street map found on another Hamas gunman, and obtained by CNN, shows individual buildings inside identified and accessed for their military value. The communal kitchen, for example, is described as the main place suitable for holding hostages. Inside the guard room, the soldiers must be neutralized, the Hamas instructions say. While the kibbutz dental clinic is designated a place for first aid for both enemies and friends. Israeli residents of Sa'ad say they also found that level of detail astounding.

SARAH POLLACK, KIBBUTZ SA'AD RESIDENT: Shockingly, the details are very accurate. The map is a map of our kibbutz. It's very accurate. It's horribly accurate.

CHANCE (on camera): If they'd have come to your settlement, they would have known exactly where to go, exactly where to cause the most damage.

POLLACK: Yes. And we now see that their - their goal was to take hostage, including children.

CHANCE (voice over): Israeli officials say they found other documents too that advise attackers to kill anyone posing a threat or causing a distraction, to keep captives away from arms or means of suicide, and to use them as cannon fodder.

It is a dark turn. Even for a group seen here parading before the attacks that's come to symbolize the uncompromising face of Palestinian resistance and violence against Israel.

Israeli officials say a document referencing ISIS and al Qaeda, which CNN has not been able to authenticate, was found on one Hamas gunman killed during this attack on kibbutz Be'eri. The document, given to CNN by a senior Israeli government official, praises jihad against Jews and crusaders. Israeli officials say that's evidence Hamas is in increasingly

influenced by global jihad ideology, an assessment many experts have dismissed. But in the wake of the unprecedented brutality of these attacks, U.S. officials tell CNN the Hamas threat may now be reassessed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Erin, security experts here in Israel that we've spoken to say this wasn't just a Hamas success, it was also a Israeli failure as well because, first of all, they took their eye off the ball - their eye off the ball, didn't have enough boots on the ground to physically defend these Israeli communities near the Gaza Strip.

[06:40:10]

And, according to these security experts, had too much of a reliance on technology and not enough on human intelligence.

BURNETT: An incredible statement in this day and age, right? And we know human intelligence still the most crucial of everything in a world where everyone relies on technology, signals intelligence, AI.

Matthew Chance, thank you very much.

Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to continue to cover these new developments in the Middle East.

But here in the U.S., a murder confession for the man long suspected of killing American teenager Natalee Holloway. How he says he did it. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: This morning, the painful mystery behind the disappearance of Natalee Holloway appears to have been solved. Court filings of Joran Van Der Sloot include a confession of a fight he had with the Alabama teen on the beach in Aruba nearly 20 years ago.

CNN's Jean Casarez has been following every single twist and turn of this story and is here with the brand new details.

You've been following this for years. What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Since it began, I've been following it. It was so long ago.

MATTINGLY: Yes, what happened?

CASAREZ: Joran Van Der Sloot has - he was the last one to see her. And he has given so many stories through the years. And they have all been lies. And he's admitted they were lies.

In 2010 he told Natalee Holloway's family, give me $250,000 and I will tell you exactly what I did with her, with the body. And so a family, their representative, went over to Aruba. He said, she's buried right in this area, right here. It was a lie. But he took that money, went to Peru, and murdered someone, a young girl the same age as Natalee, and is serving a murder sentence.

But then came extortion charges and the U.S. has been working with Peru to get him over here to face them. He flew here in May, and they said we'll give you a deal -- plea deal. You plead guilty, but you've got to tell us what happened to her. And it's got to be the truth. And we are going to have a polygraph by verified agents. He said here's what happened. We've never heard this before.

He was walking with her on the beach. We were kissing. I wanted to go a step further. She said no. I kept going. She hit me. I hit her in the head. And then on the beach there was a cinder block. And I took that cinder block and I hit her.

He goes on to say, at this point she was deceased. "I decided to take her and to put her in the ocean. So, I grab her. I half up, half pull and half walk with her into the ocean. I push her off. Walk up to about my knees in the ocean, and I push her off into the sea. And, yes, after that I get out and I walk home.

Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, got to give a victim impact statement feet away from Joran Van Der Sloot in that courtroom yesterday.

[06:45:03]

She talked about it outside right after it happened.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think in this long-ending nightmare we were able to express things to him that I had been wanting to tell him as far as, you know, telling him who he is. And he is a killer. He is a killer. He will always be the killer. He will always be now the black mark in Aruba.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now, the sentence was 20 years. But you say, OK, plea deal, so what's in it for him because you're supposed to get a benefit, right? It's going to be concurrent. It is going to run at the same time that the murder sentence continues to run in Peru. He'll be going back to Peru.

But I read the legal documents and the fine print says, if Peru would decide to let him out early, because at this point his exit date is 2045. If they let him out early, he'll have to serve the remainder of that time in a U.S. prison.

MATTINGLY: A remarkable turn on a story you've covered every step of the way. Jean Casarez, thanks so much.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, a Republican lawmaker who pulled her support from Jim Jordan and his bid for speaker now saying she's received death threats for her vote. Where the speaker race stands, that's next.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And some House Democrats are pushing President Biden to urge restraint by Israel as it prepares for a possible ground invasion of Gaza. We're going to be joined next by a House Democrat about the split in his party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: A third vote for the speaker of the House could happen today. Jim Jordan failed to win the speakership yesterday, fairing even worse than he did in the first round of voting. Yet, as of now, he's staying in the race, even with deep divisions within his conference. Multiple detractors of the congressman say they have been receiving angry phone calls and threatening messages since they voting against him.

Here's what Jordan had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): It should never happen. And it's - you know, it's just wrong. That's all. And we don't want it to happen to anyone, any American, anybody, any member of Congress.

[06:50:04]

It's just - it's just - it's just wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And now some GOP members are saying they are preparing to try and step up to the role with others pushing to expand the powers of the interim speaker, Patrick McHenry.

HARLOW: This was the scene inside the U.S. Capitol yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD (chanting): Cease-fire now. Cease-fire now. Cease-fire now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Some 300 people were arrested at this protest demanding a cease-fire by Israel in Gaza. It was organized by a group called Jewish Voice for Peace. And outside one of the speakers at the rally, Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, took aim at President Biden for his support of Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): President Biden, not all Americans are with you on this one. And you need to walk up and understand that. We are literally daily watching people commit to genocide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Congresswoman Tlaib is part of a group of House progressives who signed a resolution this week that, quote, "urges the Biden administration to immediately call for a cease-fire."

Joining us is another Democrat from Congress, Jonathan Jackson of Illinois. He's a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. He visited Israel last month. He met with Prime Minister Netanyahu and signed that resolution this week.

Congressman, thank you for being with us this morning.

I wonder if you agree with Congresswoman Tlaib that President Biden is out of step with at least some of America on this.

REP. JONATHAN JACKSON (D-IL): What I'm focused on is the fact that there should be an immediate cease-fire. I agree with the United Nations secretary general and a growing body of people that want to see hostages released, want to see humanitarian aid sent into the Gaza Strip. That's our focus right now. We want to have a de-escalation of the violence. And so what we're seeing is mounting death tolls, maybe 1,400 Israelis that have been killed, over 3,000 Palestinians. And as the Israeli government gets ready for a ground offensive, we're very much concerned about, how do we protect the life of innocent civilians.

Hamas is not the Palestinians. The two need to be separated. This was an intelligence failure that we first have to address. Currently, I'd like to see stronger defense provided for Israel. I'd like to see justice, if you will, for the humanitarian efforts, for the - those in Palestine. A million people have been dislocated in the last week, in the last 11 days. They have to get aid. Water is running short. Food is running short. And there is medical equipment, there is medical supplies at the border that cannot get into the Gaza area. The people are really caged in now.

So, we're seeking diplomacy, the deterrence of the warships, and to bring the de-escalation into the entire region.

HARLOW: I will say, President Biden is confident after his conversation with President El Sisi of Egypt that that aid will get in. But, you're right, we have to see it get in.

To your call for a cease-fire, your signing of this resolution calling for one this week, does that not contradict the resolution you signed on October 11th presented by Congressman Meeks and McCaul, that, quote, "reaffirms" Israel's right to defense?

JACKSON: Well, defense is not necessarily on the offense. It is a protective measure. Diplomacy is where we'd like to see strengthened. As we speak right now, the United States does not have a confirmed ambassador from the United States to Israel. We do not have a confirmed ambassador from the United States to Egypt. We should strengthen our diplomacy efforts.

HARLOW: Right. But the question is, as Israel continues to be attacked by Hamas, their response to that? Do the two not contradict one another? I understand your point on defense, but Israel is saying this is our 9/11 moment.

JACKSON: Well, if you look at the consequences of what the United States did at 9/11, we first created the Department of Homeland Security. Let's first address what was the intelligence failure. The Israeli Defense Force is outstanding. How did this information go by? How was it missed? That's one part of it.

The second part is, we want to make sure that all of the weapons are degraded. That there is no more of the weapons that are being attacked into Israel. How will we get to the -- that solution? We'll have to go through information and get to the deterrent.

What we currently have right now is a great dislocation of a million people. If we cannot fix that, we're going to have a larger problem.

HARLOW: How important do you think clarity is in terms of information? One example is the intelligence that the United States has gathered on the bombing of that hospital in Gaza this week. Your colleague, Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, also tweeted this week, "Israel just bombed the hospital killing 500 Palestinians just like that." She's standing by it. She has not taken it down. And that is counter to what U.S. intelligence tells us, what the president tells us. Does that concern you?

JACKSON: Yes, it does. So, there is information that's moving around at a rapid pace. There's disinformation that's going on.

[06:55:00]

I've not seen any intelligence to give me satisfaction of the validity on which side did what. So, I have no further comment on that. But, more importantly, is that this information, in our modern era of warfare, can be used as weaponry. So, of course, people are going to say things in their own - in their own benefit. That's why it is so imperative that we have de-escalation now. We have to take the swelling out. We have to bury the dead. We have to get the hostages returned. That's my priority. That's paramount. We have to get humanitarian aid into the Gaza, and we have to make sure that Israel is safe.

HARLOW: So, Congressman, you had an impossible conversation this week with the father of Wadea al-Fayoume. He is a six-year-old boy in Illinois who was stabbed to death by the landlord of the building for being Arab. And we have these pictures of him. That's even one photograph. That is a half a heart that he is making. And his father says that his father would complete the heart with his son.

JACKSON: You know -

HARLOW: It was just his birthday. I just wanted to ask you about being at his funeral and speaking to his father.

JACKSON: So, I went to the repast, if you will, the event that happened after the funeral. I commiserated with the father and the community. But to be in the aftermath of a six-year-old child that was stabbed over 26 times, his mother is still recovering. She's been multiply stabbed. This was a landlord, a person that - that knew the young child.

HARLOW: Yes.

JACKSON: He heard so much vicious talk, dehumanization of a group of people, and somehow he conflated and related Hamas to this six-year- old child and ended up stabbing him. So, that 72-year-old man that was friends with the child the day before had an overdose of some toxic information and it compelled him.

So, I want terrorism to stop. That is the first act of terror on our shores. This can easily spiral out of control. That's what I'm asking for. People of good - of good faith and good region to like deescalate.

It is hopeful to see the prime minister of the U.K. going into Israel to talk. It's helpful to see President Macron of France going into the U.K. to talk. It's great to see the United Nations secretary general going into Israel. I am - I have a great deal of optimism because more people are talking.

I applaud President Biden for having the courage to go into a war zone to talk to a friend. The United States has a special friendship, relationship with Israel. And when you have a special friend, you're able to talk to them. You're able to give them some additional insight. You can also share with them things that they may not want to hear that can be in their best interest.

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: So, for President Biden enforcing diplomacy and extending a hand of friendship and going in a time of need, I congratulate him.

HARLOW: Congressman Jonathan Jackson, thank you so much. And I'm sure it was very meaningful to the family in Illinois to have you there. Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Well, tonight, President Biden will speak directly to the American people from the Oval Office. Only the second time a prime time Oval Office address in his presidency. What to expect as he seeks more funds for the wars in Israel and Ukraine.

HARLOW: We also have new details this morning on the investigation into the hospital blast in Gaza. How the U.S. made its determination that Israel is not to blame.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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