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Humanitarian Aid Trickles into Gaza; Dan O'Shea is Interviewed about the Hostages in Gaza; Two Trump Allies Plead Guilty; Synagogue Leader Found Stabbed to Death. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 23, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:30:10]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Overnight, the Israeli military launching raids on the ground, ramping up airstrikes on Gaza. The IDF, just about a half an hour ago, said there have been more than 300 strikes on targets in Gaza and they say they are preparing their troops for the next phase of the war against Hamas, which is now on day 17.

Sources telling CNN, the U.S. is urging Israel to delay a ground assault into Gaza in the hopes of getting more hostages out and humanitarian aid in for the more than 2 million Palestinians who, of course, are short of every necessity, including water. A senior Israeli official tells CNN that there will be, though, no ceasefire.

The IDF has now updated their number of hostages. That number has gone up yet again. They say that 222 people were kidnapped during the Hamas invasion and massacre two weeks ago. To think about that, when they add just a few - a few numbers to that, it goes up by three. That's three families who thought that maybe their child or loved one is dead, who now have hope that that they may be returned alive. Each number an individual human being.

And this morning, President Biden, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and several European leaders said that they had a chance to speak yesterday, issued a joint statement on Israeli's war with Hamas. The White House saying, quote, "the leaders reiterated their support for Israel and its right to defend itself against terrorism and called for adherence to international humanitarian law, including the protection of civilians."

Also this morning we are getting a better picture of how desperate the need for aid in Gaza is. So, a new CNN analysis shows that Gaza is more than 7,200 truckloads of aid short of what would normally have been delivered since the October 7th attack. Keep in mind, Gaza is completely reliant on aid for its existence. The Hamas government failed to do that. So, it's reliant on aid. Seventy-two hundred trucks short. They've gotten in 14 trucks yesterday. That's the context.

The U.N. says that Gaza normally receives 455 aid trucks per day. So, compare that per day to the 14 that came in, in just one 24 hour period over this weekend. So, this is a crucial analysis of how dire the situation actually is.

Well, the people from Gaza, the catastrophic humanitarian situation therefore is deepening. Near constant bombing has left one hospital overwhelmed they say with bodies. They don't have any morphine left. And, of course, fuel supplies are running out. Because of the aid coming in, Israel has said categorically the one thing that is not included in that is fuel because they say Hamas will take it and siphon it off.

Israel's calls for Gaza citizens to evacuate from the north to the south are sparking fears of the displacement of millions of Palestinians. Jordan's King Abdullah calls it a red line that can't be crossed.

Our Nada Bashir joining me now from Amman, Jordan, of course.

So, Neda, why is this such a red line for Jordan where, of course, refugee camp isn't even an accurate word to use for some of the refugee camps that have been established with Syrian refugees. These are now permanent, permanent homes for millions of refugees.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. I mean this is a country of more than half of the population are either Palestinian or o Palestinian descent. Many of them, of course, came to Jordan as a result of being forcibly expelled or forced to flee their homes following he 1948 Arab/Israeli war, or, of course, the 1967 Arab/Israeli war. This is a huge issue here.

But what we've been hearing when we speak to people, many of them Palestinian refugees who still have loved ones, family members stuck in Gaza, and they are watching the news, desperate to see whether their loved ones have survived, whether their homes have been impacted in this latest round of airstrikes.

But the message that we've been hearing from them is, they do not want their loved ones to be forced into becoming refugees. They do not want to be exiled because they fear this means they will never be able to return.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASHIR (voice over): Through the narrow streets of Amman's Jabel el- Hussein refugee camp, the mood is clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Palestine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Palestine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No America. No America!

BASHIR: Established more than 70 years ago, this community is now home to more than 30,000 Palestinian refugees. Just a fraction of the more than 700,000 who were expelled or forced to flee their homes following the 1948 Arab/Israeli war. Families in this camp know the pain of exile all too well. Denied by Israel, their right to return to their homeland, it is a life sentence to separation from family, from friends, from home. And for those with loved ones still in Gaza, they say it is a sentence to the cruelest form of anguish.

ABD MUNIM SADDO DABABCH (through translator): Are we not human too because we are Palestinian? At any given moment I could get a phone call telling me that my sister and her children have been killed. You know my mother was killed during the Gaza War in 2009. I hadn't seen her for 12 years.

[06:35:01]

BASHIR: Ali Al-Ottieh says that he has more than 70 relatives in Gaza that have already been killed in this latest round of Israeli airstrikes.

ALI AMEEN Al-OTTIEH, PALESTINIAN REFUGEE (through translator): Our home is Palestinian. We will never forget about Palestinian. Imagine being forced out of your home for 75 years. We have already spent 75 years as refugees. How could you expect the Palestinians to leave their homes and move to Egypt or elsewhere?

BASHIR: Now the prospects of thousands more Palestinians being forcibly displaced to neighboring countries, or even further afield, has been condemned by leaders across the Arab world and has been characterized by both the king of Jordan and other officials as both a war crime and a red line for the country.

MUSTAFA AL-HAMARNEH, JORDANIAN SENATOR; The Israelis were always adamant about no return of refugees. And that's why the Palestinians cling to what they call law of return or the right of return back. So, any eviction, any new mass of Palestinian refugees, for us is a repeat of 1948.

BASHIR: That fear of history repeating itself of another Nukhba, or catastrophe as Palestinians describe it, is felt across the region. Many of Haniah Al-Sadawi's relatives are trapped in Gaza. Now Haniah spends every morning calling loved ones, hoping that they are still alive.

HANIAH Al-SADAWI, Palestinian LIVING IN AMMAN, JORDAN: I don't even know whether my family is going to be able to go back to their homes, if they're going to have homes to go back to. And, of course, the biggest fear is that they're going to be evacuated and turned into refugees. They don't want to move. They would rather die in Gaza than move.

BASHIR: The connection felt by Palestinians to their homeland is hard to overstate. At this church vigil in Amman, a poignant moment of remembrance. "O Jerusalem," they sing. A 1960s melody beloved across the region dedicated to the holy city and to the Palestinian struggle. A cause which has drawn people of all faiths, of all walks of life, together with a message of enduring solidarity.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BASHIR: And, look, Erin, that solidarity certainly being felt here in Amman. It is certainly being felt across the Middle East as we continue to see people taking to the streets in protest against Israel's continued aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip, and in protest against the crippling, unfolding humanitarian catastrophe that we are seeing in the Gaza Strip.

BURNETT: Nada, thank you very much, from Amman this morning.

And the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, says that he's hopeful that Hamas will release more hostages. There were two Americans freed on Friday, of course, as you know, a mother and daughter from Chicago. Judith and Natalie Raanan are said to be safe. They're in good health in Israel, expected to return to the United States very soon. Perhaps as soon as tomorrow. Natalie's father telling "The Washington Post" that his daughter's 18th birthday is tomorrow and that she could be flying back home very soon.

Former Navy SEAL commander and the coordinator of the hostage working group at the U.S. embassy in Iraq, Dan O'Shea, joins us now.

Dan, here, over the weekend, there was a lot of speculation and - and, you know, a lot of reporting out there that maybe there were going to be more hostages, right, that those first two were sort of breaking the seal and at least when it came to some foreign nationals that we would have seen a few more over the weekend. We didn't see that. Does that signify anything to you?

DAN O'SHEA, HOSTAGE WORKING GROUP COORDINATOR, U.S. EMBASSY IRAQ: Well, listen, right now these hostages, now over 200, 222 as your report stated, those are the bargaining chips. That's the -- this is the only card that Hamas can play. And obvious (INAUDIBLE) note, the U.S. and other - other countries are putting pressure on Netanyahu and the IDF to slow down this -- the incursion into Gaza and, obviously, limit the scale and scope of what the IDF wants to do, which is to root out Hamas and wipe them out. And that's why I don't think we'll see - I -- we may see more exchanges, but I don't think they're going to come in a flood. I think they'll be dragged out as long as Hamas is trying to - to survive.

BURNETT: Why do you think they chose the two individuals they chose? Now, I'm not expecting that Secretary Blinken would have come out and given us an answer to that, but - but he said he doesn't though. So, if you're going to take him at his word that he's not sure what it is, what do you think the reason is for selecting that mother and daughter from Chicago?

O'SHEA: Well, the obvious is America. We can - we can put the most pressure on Netanyahu and - and the IDF arguably because, one, we supply a lot of the munitions and weapons systems and planes.

[06:40:04]

So, the U.S. is the most strategic partner of war (INAUDIBLE) Israel for their national defense. So, obviously, that was a no-brainer that the -- an American and/or mother/daughter would be released. And, again, I don't - I have not seen reporting yet on what the breakdown is. I'm sure those numbers are out there. But these hostages, again, they are going to be used as bargaining chips and, you know, the -- there are - there are other mother/daughter combinations from what we understand. So - but they -- these - these two were chosen but because they were Americans more than anything else.

BURNETT: Absolutely. And we understand there would be at least eight more Americans, but that's just from the numbers that we have thus far. But, obviously, a very small part overall of the 222, the vast (ph) -- while there are plenty of foreign nationals, the vast majority, of course, are Israeli.

But we did see, Dan, overnight, yesterday, there was actually the first - the first clashes between Hamas and Israeli special forces in Gaza. So, when Netanyahu said soon you're going to see the inside of Gaza, special forces have been in there. We know they were in there at least once and then a second time yesterday that resulted in a strike - a clash, I'm sorry, and one IDF being killed.

What do you think -- do you think it's possible that they - I mean I would imagine they're trying, but what do you think the possibility is of some sort of special forces rescue being successful given that we do know that they're probably being held underground and in various locations?

O'SHEA: Well, in my 20 odd years of tracking this, and I spent two years in Iraq dealing with over 400 international kidnapping cases, and 40 plus American hostages taken, Gaza presents challenges that we haven't seen anywhere except for maybe Mosul when we had to recapture Mosul after ISIS had taken over the city and had almost a year to put in their defenses. And Hamas has had over 15 years to prepare for an IDF incursion. So, this will be challenging on every level because even in Iraq and Afghanistan, we own the air, we own the nights. We had forward operating bases all over the place. And the fact that this intelligence failure on October 7th shows a glaring weakness in Mossad and the intelligence organizations within Israel, so we don't necessarily know how much intelligence they have on these tunnel systems or where these hostages are located.

BURNETT: Yes.

O'SHEA: That's what will present an enormous challenge to any rescue force to go in and try to pull off a hostage rescue mission.

BURNETT: Absolutely. Well, Dan O'Shea, thank you very much. We all appreciate your time.

Phil and Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thank you very much for that conversation. We'll get back to you soon.

So, turning to this, not one but two plea deals from former Trump attorneys in the Georgia election subversion case. And that means they've agreed to testify if called against their co-defendants, which, of course, include former President Trump. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, new reports that an Australian

billionaire says Trump told him about private phone calls with foreign leaders during his presidency. The details of those conversations, that's ahead.

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[06:45:11]

MATTINGLY: Well, there are new reports this morning about Donald Trump's handling of potentially sensitive national security information while he was in the Oval Office. According to "The New York Times" and "60 Minutes" Australia, Trump allegedly shared information about his calls with the leaders of Ukraine and Iraq with Australian billionaire Anthony Pratt, who is a member of Mar-a-Lago. Pratt is also a key prosecution witness in Trump's classified documents case. Now, the reports reveal that recordings of Pratt, who gave an interview to special counsel Jack Smith, and in those about Trump's call with Iraqi president Pratt says, quote, "Trump said, I just bombed Iraq today and the president of Iraq called me up and said, you've just leveled my city. And he said, I said to him OK, what are you going to do about it."

HARLOW: He also recalled Trump sharing information about that infamous call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy where Trump pressured him to launch an unfounded corruption probe into Joe Biden, saying, quote, "that was nothing compared to what I usually do, Mr. Trump said, in Mr. Pratt's recounting." Pratt also offers searing critiques of Trump's personal ethics, saying he, quote, "says outrageous things nonstop."

MATTINGLY: Meanwhile, Trump is responding to two of his allies who flipped on him, taking plea deals in the Georgia election interference case. Trump tried to distance himself from campaign lawyer Sydney Powell, writing on Truth Social, "Ms. Powell was not my attorney and never was." She pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor counts in a deal with the Fulton County DA Fani Willis.

HARLOW: Another pro-Trump attorney, Kenneth Chesebro, also took a plea deal a day later, pleading guilty to a felony conspiracy charge for his role in trying to overturn the 2020 election. As part of both of their deals, Powell and Chesebro have agreed to testify against their co-defendants, including Donald Trump, if they're called.

With us now, CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig, former prosecutor in Atlanta Sarah Flack.

Great to have you both.

Elie, I thought this was interesting. So, Kenneth Chesebro's attorney, Scott Grubman, who was on CNN over the weekend, asked all about this. Here is part of what he said when he was asked by our colleague if this guilty plea implicates former President Trump.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GRUBMAN, ATTORNEY FOR KEN CHESEBRO: It made it his role in preparing documents that at the time he could acknowledge were false documents. He admitted to a conspiracy to commit the filing of false documents.

But I want to be clear about something, he did not implicate anyone else. And, listen, Ken Chesebro is not interested in defending anyone. You know, I've read, oh, he's defending Trump. He's not interested in defending Trump, anyone, but he also didn't implicate anyone. He implicated himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He didn't implicate anyone but he's not going to defend anyone else. And you can bet he's going to be called.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, he did implicate people because he admitted he was part of a conspiracy, which definitionally involves more than one person. In fact, during his inquiry (ph) at coloqui (ph), they named off - the prosecutor named off the other people that the prosecutors believe were part of the conspiracy.

Now, it may well be that Chesebro is not able to say I ever spoke directly with Donald Trump. But by saying, yes, there was this conspiracy, there was this agreement between me and others to commit a crime, that does implicate other people.

But I do think Sidney Powell is the bigger threat to Donald Trump because we know she had direct contact with Donald Trump. So, if I was Trump, I'd be primarily worried about Powell, secondarily worried about Kenneth Chesebro.

MATTINGLY: You know, Sara, to that point, do we know specifically what Sidney Powell has agreed to, the implications of that, how this is going to play out going forward?

SARAH FLACK, FORMER PROSECUTOR IN ATLANTA: Yes, so we know that she has pled guilty. We also know that prior to this guilty plea she proffered with the state of Georgia with Fani Willis and her prosecution team. What that means is that she and her attorney met behind closed doors, probably had a recorded statement or multiple statements that she gave kind of letting them know what all she knew, what documents she had. That proffer was a part of her plea deal. It probably was recorded and it probably will be turned over at some point to Trump and the other remaining defendants down the road. She's also been required to testify at trial and we also know that she's going to have to continue to cooperate with the state of Georgia.

Again, she's going to be the bigger threat for Donald Trump because we know she was at White House meetings with him in 2020 after the election. We know that she was standing next to him at a press conference where he is talking about this election. So, she is going to be the bigger issue for Donald Trump and probably directly will implicate him in that proffer and in her statement at trial. HARLOW: And, in fact, Elie, if you look at - look at this. This is

Trump in 2020 announcing his legal team. And he says, "I look forward to Giuliani spearheading the legal efforts," et cetera, et cetera. And then he goes on to name a bunch of lawyers and it includes Sidney Powell, who he calls "a truly great team" and added "other wonderful lawyers and representatives."

So now he's saying they're not part of our - she wasn't my lawyer.

[06:50:02]

But he wrote it.

HONIG: Yes.

HARLOW: I mean he wrote it and he posted it.

HONIG: Well, let the distancing begin. We've seen this routine before. This is something Donald Trump does anytime someone flips on him. I barely knew the guy. He tried it with Michael Cohen. He tried it with everybody. And, by the way, he didn't invent this tactic. Pretty much every powerful person who got charged with a crime, someone flips, they say, barely knew the guy.

To me the million-dollar question with Sidney Powell is, has she come fully clean because it's one thing if she says it's a good thing for prosecutors if she says, yes, I'm guilty of these misdemeanors I plead to. We accessed the information of voting machines. And also these statements I made about election fraud, they were lies. We knew they were lies. It was part of the big plan to steal the election.

But, if she's only going to admit, yes, I was part of this plan to breach the voting equipment, but the statements I made I had a basis for and we were still investigating and there was nothing wrong with that, then she's of very limited value.

HARLOW: Do you really think that Fani Willis would have given her this deal if, in the proffer, she only went that far?

HONIG: So, here's what I would say, if these were the feds, you would only take complete cooperation. State prosecutors tend to differ. What makes me wonder a little bit about the Fani Willis deals is, she charged Sidney Powell with racketeering, but took a much, much smaller plea. Did not make Sidney Powell plead to racketeering. Only made her plead to misdemeanor. So that gives me a little bit of a question here.

MATTINGLY: Sarah, to that point, the "I don't know her" defense aside, what Elie's saying there, what's your read on what this actually means?

FLACK: I think D.A. Fani Willis is very smart, particularly when it comes to these RICO charges. I mean she has built a career on these kinds of charges. And so I don't believe that she would allow her to plead such a central role in Donald Trump's legal team to allow her to plead without a full cooperation. And like I said, I imagine there has probably been multiple meetings where she has gone in detail about what she knew and has provided information, probably even direct communications with Donald Trump. Fani Willis would not give a plea deal like this to Sidney Powell without knowing for sure she's going to testify favorably and implicate the president.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. Sarah Flack, Elie Honig, great to have you both.

FLACK: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, and synagogue president in Detroit found stabbed to death just outside her home. What police are saying now about the evidence.

HARLOW: Also the timing of any ground incursion into Gaza is still to be determined. CNN is on the Israel border with an eye on the movement of troops.

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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The question is, where have all the tanks gone. Forward for an incursion or back to base for a pause?

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[06:56:57]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Well, the war between Israel and Hamas is also leading to protests and tension here in the United States. More than 300 Jewish activists were arrested on Capitol Hill after demonstrations protesting the war. They're calling on President Biden and others to stop providing aid to Israel, arguing more civilian deaths is not the answer to the conflict in Gaza. Nearly 1,000 people rallied in Brooklyn, New York, on Sunday waving those flags and signs. It is home to a large Palestinian community.

And two pro-Palestinian demonstrations in Skokie, Illinois, ended Sunday night with at least two people arrested.

MATTINGLY: Also this morning, Detroit Police are sharing new details about a synagogue president found stabbed to death Saturday at her home. Officials say as of now there's no evidence suggesting Samantha Woll's death was motivated by anti-Semitism. At her funeral Sunday, family and friends remembered her push for peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA WOLL ROSEN, SISTER OF SAMANTHA WOLL: You were my older sister. You taught me. You protected me. You loved me with all your heart. You so deeply wanted peace for this world. You fought for everyone regardless of who they were or where they came from. You are the definition of a leader.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us live from outside Detroit.

This was such a jarring attack in its brutality and location. What more you can tell us about the investigation, Omar?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Phil, well, I think from the headline alone, Detroit synagogue president found stabbed to death, it makes people want to jump to conclusions immediately. And that's what Detroit Police are cautioning against right now. Specifically Detroit Police Chief James White emphasized that, "the investigation into the death of Ms. Samantha Woll remains ongoing. At this time, however, no evidence has surfaced suggesting that this crime was motivated by anti-Semitism."

But they also didn't include in that statement that they had ruled it out. Highlighting sort of where we are in this investigation and some of the questions that still linger in this community.

She was president of the downtown Detroit synagogue behind me. Forty years old. She was found stabbed to death outside of her home. Police followed a trail of blood to her home, which is where they believe this killing took place, but they don't have any suspect as we understand at this point and they are still looking into what led to this killing.

Regardless of how it happened, it happened. And those who knew her best remembered her over the course of a memorial on Sunday. All the way from those in the community, up to state elected leaders, including Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, who worked with Woll during Nessel's re-election campaign.

Take a listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sam did more for our community, our state, our world, our lives in her short time here on earth than most will ever accomplish in 1,000 lifetimes over. And her killer will not rob us of the memory of her joy and warmth and kindness that she leaves behind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:00:04]

JIMENEZ: And another state senator spoke about how she was just with Woll at a wedding the night before her body was found.