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CNN This Morning

Israel Launches Raids and Ramps Up Airstrikes on Gaza as U.S. Seeks Delay of Ground Assault for Hostage Negotiations; Israeli President Claims Killed Hamas Militant was Carrying Manual on How to Build Chemical Weapon; Nine Republicans Vying to be Speaker Amid House Chaos. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And another state senator spoke about how she was just with Woll at a wedding the night before her body was found. This community trying to come to grips with what happened as investigators continue to push toward why. Phil, Poppy?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Omar Jimenez live for us in Detroit, keep us posted. Thank you.

And CNN This Morning continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Israel's military is ramping up its bombardment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Its troops clashed with Hamas fighters inside Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're hunting the commanders, looking for new targets to emerge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The relentless bombing campaign underway in Gaza is cruel and unconscionable.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Israel has to do everything it can to make sure this doesn't happen again.

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're concerned about potential escalation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will try to minimize the civilian casualties but Hamas will do exactly the opposite.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are still some 200-plus people being held hostage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Biden made multiple calls to world leaders to keep this conflict from widening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They will continue to flow into Gaza to drop in the bucket of what would be needed on a daily basis.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Troops on the border waiting for that incursion. They're still not clear when it's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Well, good morning, everyone. I'm Phil Mattingly with Poppy Harlow in New York, Erin Burnett is live with us in Tel Aviv. Nic Robertson is in Sderot, Israel, near the Gaza border.

Overnight, Israeli forces ramping up airstrikes on Gaza and launching raids on the ground. The IDF says troops are preparing for the, quote, next phase of the war against Hamas.

This is video of the aftermath of the strikes in Gaza this morning. Sources tell CNN the U.S. is urging Israel to delay its ground assault in the hopes of getting more hostages out and humanitarian aid in for the millions of Palestinians who are running out of food and water.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: But a senior Israeli official tells CNN there will be no ceasefire. The IDF now says 222 people were kidnapped during Hamas' attack now more than two weeks ago.

And new this morning Israel's president is claiming one of the Hamas militants killed during the invasion was carrying instructions on how to build a chemical weapon with cyanide. CNN has not yet verified that claim.

We begin with team coverage this hour across Israel. Erin Burnett and Tel Aviv starts our coverage off. Erin, that's quite a claim by President Herzog. What are the implications?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the implications, obviously, are significant. Now, let's just go through exactly what they say they found, Poppy. They say they found a USB on one of the Hamas militants involved in the attacks. And on that USB, there was information from what had been in Al Qaeda 2003 operational manual, which included a page of instructions on how to assemble a cyanide chemical weapon and how to disperse it with crude drawings. That's what they're saying.

They are, however, clear that there were no indications, at least we've received no indication from the Israeli government, that there were any plans to deploy such a weapon. It's just that it was on that USB. But we do know that there were battle plans found on operatives as well. We've seen those ourselves that go through each of the kibbutz which were attacked, street by street where every camera was, every generator was, an incredible amount of detailed information. And on those plans, we do know, talking to security at least one kibbutz, that they followed those to the T and went item by item by item.

So, the significance of the chemical weapons cannot be -- you know, we can't miss that, but there is no indication as of yet that there was any plan to use any such weapon.

MATTINGLY: Erin, the barrage of airstrikes overnight, 320 targets is what the IDF is saying, what are you seeing and hearing this morning?

BURNETT: All right. So, 320 airstrikes, they give out numbers most days, so just over two days that you're running at a 500-strike over 48 hour period. That gives you a sense of what's happening in Gaza.

Now, the Palestinian health authority there is saying that, for example, near Rafah, the border crossing, that there were four strikes there in individual homes and that 29 people were killed. That's what they say, impossible to verify.

But it does speak to something both sides are actually agreeing on, even if not explicitly, which is that the Israeli strikes are extremely targeted. So, targeting specific homes where they believe that there are links to Hamas militants, they're also talking about Islamic Jihad, Israel, is that they are including Palestinian Islamic Jihad targets as legitimate in Gaza, in addition to Hamas themselves.

This morning, and we'll get to Nic in a moment to hear more, there have been days where we have heard that assault, even from Tel Aviv. Certainly when we're closer in Ashkelon, we hear the back and forth. You can hear artillery. Here, we do hear often the thuds of those bombs. And it has been very quiet today. It has been very quiet yesterday, at least from where we're standing at the beginning.

Two weeks ago when I was here, it was a constant thud that you could actually physically feel through your body throughout the day. We are not hearing that. So, that is different. And there are those thousands of troops, massed along the border, waiting for the green light to go in, all up along that 25-mile-long border.

[07:05:00]

Israeli officials, of course, have been warning about this for days. But the question now remains when exactly it will happen.

And we do understand that the prime minister, Netanyahu, obviously has been presented with many possible operations that he could green light, they could go on. So, we'll see whether this weight indicates a shift in his decision-making on what going in entails.

Nic Robertson, as Phil said, is in Sderot, Israel. And, Nic, what are you seeing where you are this morning?

ROBERTSON: Yes. By far, the heaviest amount of airstrikes that we've witnessed here in the past two weeks overnight last night, the late evening hours into the early morning hours, really heavy bombardment shaking this house, the most sustained amount of missiles and artillery that we've experienced here, and we've been here for two weeks.

Today, as you say, much quieter. We hear drones in the sky, but no sounds of impacts here in Northern Gaza. And one of the things that we're hearing as well is the reason that the government here is so, Prime Minister Netanyahu's government is so concerned about the humanitarian pauses. They think that that will be used by Hamas to gain an advantage, to alleviate some of the pressure that they're facing at the moment. And this pressure designed to help move along hostage releases.

Talking to some of the troops who are close to the front here, they talk about being told to be ready for action and then action not coming and sort of stood up, stood down. But speaking to past veterans of wars here, they say, look, we've been through this here before. We can stay out and do this in the field as long as we like.

But when you look at the troops arrayed in the frontlines close to Gaza, that's a force waiting to go.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice over): Bristling with battle-ready troops farmers' fields north of Gaza churn with the controlled fury of a nation readying for an incursion to strike Hamas, yet they are waiting with no explanation why.

It feels like the early rush for battle readiness has passed. The troops are deployed standing by. The question is how long can they be kept out here.

According to former IDF general Israel Ziv, as long as is needed. There are military gains.

ISRAEL ZIV, FORMER GENERAL, IDF: We are now improving our intelligence and our capacity of targets.

ROBERTSON: But the political calculation here is more complicated.

RON BEN YISHAI, MILITARY ANALYST: I think both in Washington and in Jerusalem they understand that the legitimization window is closing quickly.

ROBERTSON: Civilian losses in Gaza are growing, more than third of them children, according to Palestinian health officials. Lengthy negotiations have led to two American hostages released. There's a tiny amount of humanitarian aid has crossed into Gaza that Israel fears ends up in Hamas' hands.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's calculus of when to send in ground troops has never been so fraught under pressure from the White House for more hostage releases.

YISHAI: Netanyahu is in real problem. He cannot say no to Biden but he cannot say yes to the humanitarian aid that drifts into Northern Gaza.

ROBERTSON: But he is also under pressure at home too, military and others hawkish for a decisive blow against Hamas.

ZIV: We are finishing preparing the ground force because we've changed plans. We are going for heavy maneuvering.

ROBERTSON: Netanyahu's dilemma compounded by his dependence on American weapons. YISHAI: The pressure from Washington is real. It's real and strong. And the prime minister says many times to his ministers, listen, we are getting from the United States more than you know.

ROBERTSON: Where less than a week ago, these fields were teeming with tanks, troops making last minute repairs. Today, there are just tracks in the sand.

There's a soldiers jacket here, bread in a bag on the table. The question is where have all the tanks gone forward for an incursion or back to base for a pause?

Close to the front line in Gaza these days, more questions than answers, an incursion still highly probable, but when?

[07:10:05]

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): And while we've just been standing here over the last few minutes, we've heard small arms fire, gunfire coming from this direction over here, which is the direction towards the border -- and from here, we can't tell what is actually happening there, but I think it's indicative of the tensions along the border fence at the moment.

BURNETT: Nic, absolutely. But here's the thing. I know you're saying that troops are telling you they can wait indefinitely, and I would expect them -- you know, you'd expect them to say that, regardless of the situation.

But this reporting that the U.S. is exerting pressure on Netanyahu to wait, obviously, that makes a lot of sense. But how long can he wait? And does Netanyahu lose his position of sort of strength and authority by appearing to cave to U.S. interests on the timing of what he does?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think that part of the calculus for Prime Minister Netanyahu will be what do his enemies in the region perceive if the United States and the international community is able to tell Israel not to go after Hamas then. For many Israelis, that's going to ultimately look like a sign of weakness. And the calculus will be, well, what will Hezbollah do knowing that, knowing that they are potentially about and have threatened to launch attacks against Israel on that scale if the IDF goes into Gaza.

So, I think that all becomes part of the calculus, the calculus that Israelis themselves genuinely don't feel safe after those barbaric attacks by Hamas more than two weeks ago, all that's part of the calculus.

Look, I think he can hold back for a while, but I think everyone is poised as an expectation. But I think it then becomes a question, what precisely is the incursion going to do? How big will it be? How many civilians will be in the way of that incursion? I think, you know, those are the points. But when it comes back to how long can they wait, one veteran of the 1967 war, the Arab-Israeli War, back then said, look, we were held out in the desert for a month. And what we did was we trained and we practiced. And he said, actually, that worked to our advantage.

So, I think the psyche here, it's not just soldiers will tell you what they think you want to hear and what their commanders want you to hear, you know, I think the psyche is what it takes will do.

BURNETT: All right. Nic, thank you very much, in Sderot, Israel, tonight -- today, sorry.

Well, the catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza, of course, is getting worse, because you hear aid going in. Yes, it's important. It's significant. But it isn't even a -- you know, it isn't even a percent of what they really need. Hospitals now operating without morphine, generators running out, this is the situation on the ground in Gaza today.

And also coming up on CNN This Morning, meanwhile, a Massachusetts couple and their one-year-old son are trapped in Gaza. And we're going to speak to a friend who is desperately trying to get them to safety.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

HARLOW: We do have this new video just in this morning. It is children and families running from what Palestinian officials say were intensified airstrikes on Gaza City. The Palestinian Foreign Ministry says a large number of people were killed in the strikes this morning.

Also, at least 26 people were killed after Israeli strikes at a refugee camp in Northern Gaza. That's according Palestinian doctors and officials on the ground there.

Meanwhile, U.S. officials say more than 500 Palestinian Americans are believed trapped in Gaza, desperately waiting for a chance to leave, and that includes a Massachusetts couple and their one-year-old son. They say that they have tried to cross the border into Egypt four times, but they cannot get in. They say they are sheltering inside a home with 40 other people sharing food and resources just trying to stay alive.

Joining us now is Sammy Nabulsi, a Boston-based attorney and a close friend of the family. Sammy, thank you for being with us this morning.

I just want to tell everyone their names as we look at these beautiful pictures of the family. Abood Okal, his wife, Wafaa, also their one- year-old son, Yousef. I know you have been desperate to hear from them. Have you heard from them in the last 24 hours?

SAMMY NABULSI, FRIENDS TRAPPED IN GAZA WITH THEIR ONE-YEAR-OLD SON: Yes, I did hear from them this morning. Every morning, I'd try to check in with them and get a status update on what's happening on the ground, how they're doing, how Yousef is doing. So, the ones silver lining in all this, of course, is that they're still with us.

HARLOW: Can I ask, what do they say to you? How dire has it gotten for them?

NABULSI: It's extremely dire. It's extremely dire. As you noted, they're living in a small, single-family home right now, a shelter with 40 other people. They've been sleeping on the floor. They're not sleeping on beds every single night for the last two weeks. And among all of these people, they're sharing an extremely limited supply of food and an even more limited supply of water.

Abood told me that a couple days ago, they'd ran out of clean drinking water. They had to drink salt water for an entire day. And this is even now becoming more dire, because now they're running out of the salt water. So, they've asked everyone in the house not to take showers, limit the amount of times they're flushing toilets, not to cook anything that requires the use of water, just so they can try to stay hydrated of all things using salt water.

On top of that, the airstrikes are continuing in Rafah. Abood told me this morning that all night, there were airstrikes and bombing in Rafah, which, by the way, that's presumably -- or not just this family, but every other American citizen family that wishes to come back to the United States by crossing into Egypt is currently located. It's extremely dangerous.

MATTINGLY: To that point, what is the latest information they have been given, if any, by the U.S. State Department, by the U.S. government officials about trying to cross at Rafah?

[07:20:03]

NABULSI: Well, it has been almost as frustrating as the fact that the United States has no departure option for any of these 500 to 600 American citizens is the way in which they've been communicating with all these people.

In under two weeks, the State Department has, by email, text messages, both to me and the family, and phone calls, told them to go to the Rafah crossing on a specific day, at a specific time, to cross into Egypt, only for these families to sit there all day for hours and for not a single American citizen to cross.

I've been asking the State Department my contacts at the White House. The family has been doing the same. Neither the embassies in Cairo or Jerusalem nor the State Department are providing any information for what went wrong and what, if any, plan there is for a departure option for anyone, or even a timeline to get out of Gaza and into Egypt.

And this is particularly concerning, given that the airstrikes on Rafaf have not stopped, and there is a ground invasion into Gaza that's imminent, and there's no one there on the ground to protect the American citizens.

HARLOW: Secretary Blinken, to your point, was asked about this over the weekend. And part of what he said, Sammy, is, quote, Hamas has blocked them from leaving. Not specifically your friends, but the 500- plus Americans. Have they said anything? Have Abood and Wafaa said anything to you about being blocked by Hamas?

NABULSI: Yes, absolutely. And that statement by Secretary Blinken is one of two things. It's either not true or it's wordplay. So, physically, at the crossing, there are no militants. There are no military or government personnel at all on the Palestinian side.

Abood sent me videos and pictures of him at the crossing, and, literally, the only thing between him and Egypt is a series of gates that are just closed and people cannot cross. So, no, there's no evidence that Hamas has been standing at the crossing blocking people from getting in there.

The reason why I say it's wordplay is I asked the State Department. I'm in an email thread with contacts on the White House National Security Council and State Department, and they told me, they said, we're still working out a three-way agreement between Israel, Egypt, and they said the DFA, which I assume stands for the Department of Foreign Affairs, either under the Palestinian Authority or Hamas, and that they continue to be pressing all three parties for agreement.

There just isn't an agreement right now about aid coming in and American citizens getting out. Perhaps what he's referring to is either Hamas is making demands or asking for certain things to happen or stop before they're going to sign whatever this global deal is that would permit American citizens to enter into Egypt.

HARLOW: Sammy, thank you very, very much for joining us. Obviously, we will continue to pose all of these questions to administration officials as they join us on CNN. All our thoughts with your dear friends, thank you.

NABULSI: Thank you all for telling their story. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Of course.

MATTINGLY: Well, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is supporting President Biden's call for Congress to bundle aid to Israel and Ukraine. But even if Republicans -- House Republicans agreed, they can't actually move forward with that plan without a speaker of the House. And they don't appear to be any closer to finding one. More on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): The world is on fire. This is so dangerous what we're doing, and most importantly, it's embarrassing because it empowers and emboldens our adversaries, like Chairman Xi, who says, you know, democracy doesn't work.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: That's Republican Congressman and Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Mike McCaul warning his colleagues that a leaderless House weakens the U.S. on the global stage. Future aid to Israel and Ukraine are on the line as House Republicans, well, they're back at square one with still no clear plan on who their next speaker will be. There are now nine Republican candidates for the speakership after Donald Trump ally Jim Jordan withdrew following three failed votes. It has been 20 days since Kevin McCarthy had his gavel taken away.

Joining us now, former Republican Congressman Fred Upton and Republican Strategist Doug Heye. Guys, I appreciate you being here.

Congressman Upton, to start with you, when you look at this field of nine, you're very familiar with this conference, who stands out to you and who among them can get 217 votes?

FMR. REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): Well, I think Tom Emmer is in a poll position. I mean, Kevin McCarthy came out for him very strong yesterday. He knows everybody. He was chairman, of course, of the NRCC. He's a whip, so he's like the highest position person in the leadership. There's a couple others that are there as well. But they're all good people.

But the real question is after they have this vote, and, you know, they go -- you know, no one is going to get a majority on the first vote on a secret ballot, so the bottom person drops off and then they'll do it again. It's probably going to go six, seven, maybe even eight ballots among those nine. But the real question will be on Wednesday or so when they've got to get 217 on the House floor again, and that's going to be the tough trick. And, of course, if they can't, then here we go again, all over again. So, it's a mighty rough road.

HARLOW: Gentlemen, listen to what Congresswoman Liz Cheney said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And a bunch of the candidates for speaker, Kevin Hern, Byron Donalds, Mike Johnson, Jack Bergman, all of them voted to object to the Electoral College results in Arizona and Pennsylvania and to disenfranchise millions of Americans based on those lies. Is that disqualifying?

FMR. REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Certainly, I think there's no question. And I think it tells you, though, you know, over 140 members of the House Republican conference voted to object and voted to object after the violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: But, Doug, I'll ask you the same thing that Jake asked Congresswoman Cheney, and that is, given that fact, that number in the conference, it didn't vote to certify the 2020 election, does it actually hurt someone like Tom Emmer or Austin Scott who did vote to certify it? DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, ultimately, it was one of the reasons that Jim Jordan didn't become speaker. He had a problem with one of the holdouts there on that specific issue. The conference clearly is where Donald Trump is on this, and we know that if Donald Trump wants to play a role here, he can. He's not the determiner, but we know that Donald Trump can make waves in a very significant way for Republicans, as he has for years.

It's a reminder not only of why we need more Fred Uptons in Congress, I wish you were still there, but also of why Republicans have proactively divided themselves amongst each other.

And we saw that play out over the past few weeks with Kevin versus Steve and Steve versus Jim and all of this. When Phil covered Capitol Hill on a day-to-day basis, a lot of what was reported was the Eric Cantor versus John Boehner world going on. I worked for Eric Cantor at the time, and most of that was frankly stupid and malicious staffing. It wasn't a member-on-member thing. In this case, it's very real with members. They all have food in their hands, and they're ready to throw it.

MATTINGLY: Congressman, I don't feel like you wish you were still back on Capitol Hill at this point.

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE) the words out of my mouth.

MATTINGLY: The question I've had --

UPTON: I want you to know that my wife is watching, and she's got a fork in her hand that she's going to come out with shortly.

MATTINGLY: I don't think you're that sadistic.

I've wondered though throughout this entire process, beyond the circus itself is, is this going to have a longer term impact? You're in a state in Michigan, one that can go back and forth, and has shown that to be the case since 2016? But there's also a number of house races in your state that could be very tight depending on how a national election goes. Do you feel like people are watching this and actually factoring it in?

UPTON: Well, to answer your question, and I'll expand on it in a second, the answer is, yes. But the other thing I just want to quickly say is that Donald Trump is engaged in this again. He's actively opposing Tom Emmer because of his vote to certify the elections in both Pennsylvania as well as Arizona.

[07:30:01]

But let's face it, as you said, this is day 20. The world is on fire. We can't pick a speaker.