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Freed Hostage Describes Kidnapping & Captivity by Hamas; U.S. General Counsels IDF Ahead of Ground Invasion; Journalist Chronicles Struggles on Life Inside Gaza; Article Unveils Mastermind Behind October 7th Attack; House GOP Pushing to Elect Speaker by Tonight. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We're glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett is live with us in Tel Aviv.

[06:00:22]

And that is where, moments ago, we just heard from one of the two hostages just released yesterday by Hamas. You see her there. The 85- year-old grandmother recounting her harrowing experience. Her daughter was by her side, translating.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yocheved Lifshitz said a swarm of Hamas militants stormed her kibbutz during the massacre and abducted her on the back of a motorbike in Gaza. She says she was held underground with five other hostages, and each captive had their own doctor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARONE LIFSCHITZ, MOTHER RELEASED BY HAMAS: There are a huge, huge network of tunnels underneath. It looks like a spider web.

When she first arrived, they told them that they are Muslims and they're not going to hurt them. And that they shared -- they ate the same food that their -- that the Hamas was eating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Hamas has now released four hostages as Israeli troops gear up to launch an assault on Gaza, they say, by ground, sea and air. The Israeli military says it struck more than 400 targets across Gaza in the past day, killing Hamas commanders and fighters.

More than 200 hostages are still believed to be inside Gaza. And as we learned from Israel's president overnight, that includes 30 children.

Let's go to Erin Burnett. She joins us live in Tel Aviv.

Erin, to you. Incredible to hear those details of how they were taken and then what happened when they were there.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and of course, the -- the stark contrast between what Hamas militants did in that terror attack on October 7. The horrific acts that we -- that we now know happened of beheading and execution and rape and dismemberment.

But that these hostages, at least from what we're now hearing today, and seem to be consistent with what we generally understand was the case from the two hostages Friday, they are recounting a very different experience, right?

Clearly, this is something Hamas wants out there as -- as the P.R. for Hamas, that look at how we treat our hostages.

It is consistent, Poppy and Phil, with what the IDF had said, which was that hostages were being held in tunnels. They said tunnels that Hamas was not known to have used before. So it is consistent with that.

But some of these details that you're sharing, even in the context of a terrorist organization that's trying to portray a very different picture to the world, saying that they were eating the same food and that they had doctors and medical care, is still quite striking.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Erin, to that point, there's been so much discussion about the preparation for the attack itself, from the terror attack itself. But let's listen to what she said about how prepared they were for the hostages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, FREED HOSTAGE (through translator): The lack of awareness by (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and IDF are just a lot. They warned us three weeks beforehand. They were in fields. They sent fire balloons. And the IDF did not treat it seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: There's a description I think you heard there about the IDF and the lead-up to the attack itself. Erin, what's your sense of that, given how you've been covering this on the ground?

BURNETT: Well, look, I've had a chance to read through the documents that were found on Hamas fighters, you know, specific to the kibbutzes they were going to be attacking, that they were assigned to. Those were dated -- one of the ones that I saw, dated October 2022. That's just the battle plan itself.

And they did have extremely detailed layouts in there of what to do with hostages, Phil and Poppy. I mean, they would say, you take the hostages. You take them to the communal eating area. Here's where it is.

So hostages were very much a central part of the plan. In fact, when you read through it, every single thing that they did was a central part of the plan.

What we didn't see in the documents for two of the kibbutz that I've read through was the rape and dismemberment and these absolutely horrific, inhuman acts that were perpetuated so broadly and horrifically. But this part, the part about hostages, that was very clearly in

there. And it sounds like now she had -- sounds like from what she's saying, right, very clearly had conversations with the -- the people who were holding them captive, right, talking about their plans.

That indicates, right, A, you had three weeks' warning. That would indicate a level of conversation that was happening between the hostages and the -- and Hamas.

HARLOW: There's also one moment this morning, Erin, where she recounted another hostage who was very ill and talked about putting them on antibiotics, and then it wasn't working, and then switching antibiotics. And it just, I think, speaks to your point about how prepared it seems like they were for what was coming.

[06:05:05]

I think we have part of this. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Y. LIFSHITZ (through translator): We had a close doctor who came to see us every two to three days. The paramedic took it upon himself and took care of medicines. If there were not medicines, they would bring substitute medicine, equivalent medicines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What's your reaction on the ground, Erin?

BURNETT: Poppy, you know --

HARLOW: Go ahead.

BURNETT: Yes. All right. So here's what's interesting about that. I'm sure you're having the same reaction. Of course, you want the hostages to be returned and returned safe and sound, and they should never have been taken in the first place.

But what that actually highlights is that Hamas is doing exactly what Israel has accused them of doing, right, which is hoarding medical supplies.

Right now you have hospitals in Gaza where people -- children are being operated on without morphine. They don't have any antibiotics. They don't have power.

But Hamas clearly has all those things and had them stockpiled. Right? They're not using them on their own civilians, not using them there, right? They're providing them to hostages.

Again, you want the hostages to be well taken care of, but they shouldn't be hostages.

But it does show that Hamas was prepared, had all this stuff stockpiled, had medical professionals who were able to help. All of these things tell a very important tale.

Of course, for the hostage families themselves, I hope -- it seems this would give them a real hope that the hostages are, as Israel said, a majority of them being alive. Would not just mean 50 percent plus one. It would mean maybe all of them. It's got to give hope to those families at the very least, of course.

But it does also show Hamas has the antibiotics. Hamas has the doctors. But of course, the Gaza civilian hospitals right now do not.

MATTINGLY: Erin, is there -- the discussion that --

BURNETT: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Just one more quick thing, and that was that there were clearly discussions with other captives, with other people who had been taken hostage. Does that give any sense about, kind of to your point, the broader landscape of the 200-plus individuals that currently are believed to be held hostage?

BURNETT: Right. I mean, we do know, of course, the government of Qatar has been very involved. The government of Egypt, obviously, was specifically, along with the Red Cross, involved with the two elderly women who were released last night, one of whom we saw speak this morning.

There has been a broad perception that foreign nationals, or dual passport, holders may be treated differently. Although the two women who were released were Israeli. So it is -- it is unclear.

But there's also been discussion that maybe there would be a big group of hostages release and that there's been some holdups on any negotiations on that. But that's the real question as to whether that happens.

And then, of course, whether that then gives a green light to Prime Minister Netanyahu to do whatever it is that he's planning to do, which he has a lot of options at his hands even now, right, when you talk about going into Gaza. It's not just one monolithic choice. Even within that, there are a lot of different options that continuing hostages being held in Gaza could impact.

And the Israeli defense minister, Yoav Gallant, said that Israel is preparing for a multilateral operation in Hamas. So they're still talking, Phil and Poppy, about air, ground and sea. Here's how he put it last night here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): Keep preparing for our operation. It will come soon. We are preparing thoroughly for the next step: a multilateral operation in the air, ground and sea. Do your work. Get ready. We will need you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Meanwhile, a three-star American general is here in Israel this morning, counselling Israeli forces ahead of the expected Gaza ground invasion.

Our Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon this morning for us. So Oren, obviously, General Glynn (ph), important here. And what is the significance of his expertise and experience and being with the IDF at this point in the war?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So Lieutenant General James Glynn from the U.S. Marine Corps obviously has decades of experience in the military.

On top of that, one of his previous positions he was the commander of Marine Forces Special Operations Command, so he has experience in Special Ops, as well.

A U.S. official who confirmed that Glynn was in Israel said he would help with big-picture advice. Israel hasn't conducted operations on this sort of size and scale in decades, if not longer, whereas the U.S. has.

Moreover, Glynn's experience in Iraq, in perhaps urban warfare, would also help Israel as they get ready to potentially move into Gaza and conduct warfare in a dense, urban environment, an incredibly difficult environment to operate in.

So Glynn can offer all that perspective. The White House yesterday said that there were military officials and officers with relevant experience that would be there to help Israel, not only in its operations now but also on what Israel is planning to do.

This as the U.S. urges caution, urges planning and urges Israel to set out very specific goals on what it wants to accomplish in Gaza -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. And obviously, they've been, I know, skeptical of what those goals or how explicitly those goals have been laid out.

[06:10:04]

We also heard from Iran, which is the broader fear, if you're going to have a massive escalation for the world. And the foreign minister said in the press conference in Tehran last night that the United States has sent Iran two messages. What are those, Oren?

LIEBERMANN: The U.S. very concerned about escalation in the region. And you've seen Secretary of State Antony Blinken put in a tremendous amount of work on shuttle diplomacy to try to head off a wider conflict and keep this fight contained to Gaza.

The Iranian foreign minister said at a press conference yesterday that they've received two messages, as you said, from the Americans. One, explicitly saying, effectively, we don't want to see a larger war; and the second, also sort of urging or warning Iran to stay out of this and to keep its proxies out of this. That would be a number of those proxies, whether it's Hezbollah in Lebanon, Shiite militias in Iraq and Syria, or the Houthis in Yemen.

So you can see the U.S. even trying to work through back channels and other intermediaries such as Qatar to try to make sure that others stay out of this fight as this looks to -- as the risk of escalation seems very apparent here, Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Oren. Thank you very much at the Pentagon, breaking all those details today.

And the White House still says not enough aid is reaching Gaza. That's the reality of the situation. Only a few trucks going in versus hundreds needed.

One essential resource, though, is a nonstarter for Israel. At least up to this point it has been. The senior adviser to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last night telling Kaitlan Collins that Israel will not allow oil into Gaza, even if all the hostages are released.

Here's what Mark Regev had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBASSADOR MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU: At the moment we have no interest in more fuel going into the Hamas military machine. And we have not authorized fuel. We've authorized medicine. We've authorized water. We've authorized food stuff. We've not authorized anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, it comes as Gaza residents have been pushing to the South. Many, of course, still choosing to remain in the North. They see it as their home.

But many have, hundreds of thousands have moved South, trying to get closer to that Rafah crossing. Just think about all that pressure going to that one point.

They all want to try to get out, improving their chances of making it to Egypt on the other side of that border crossing.

Our journalist, Ibrahim Dahman, here at CNN has been documenting the struggles he and his family are facing for us every single night. And here's what happened to him yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IBRAHIM DAHMAN, JOURNALIST (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: "Are we going to die today?" That's what my son asks me since we fled Gaza City.

Life in Khan Younis is difficult. We're staying with at least 150 other displaced families from the North, eating the bare minimum to survive.

We spend our time watching airstrikes. And filling the water tank.

DAHMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: It's like drinking toilet water. Our children drink toilet water.

DAHMAN (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: Because there's no electricity, my children can't see the horror online. And spend their time playing with other children.

DAHMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: Over the weekend, we were told to go to the Rafah crossing.

DAHMAN (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: So we loaded our car to try and flee again. On the way there was a lot of destruction.

At the crossing other families full of hope, were also trying to escape. But that hope quickly faded. We were told it's now closed.

DAHMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: We were at the Rafah crossing. We were hoping to enter the Egyptian side, but the crossing was closed. It only opened for humanitarian aid.

DAHMAN (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: We make our way back, avoiding the chaos. Hoping that tomorrow, will be better than today.

(ARTILLERY EXPLOSIONS)

DAHMAN (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: We hear airstrikes in the distance.

DAHMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: Are you scared?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: No, I am not scared.

DAHMAN (voice-over): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: But I can see the fear in his eyes, the same that's in mine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And we are thinking of Ibrahim and his family. He is documenting, with all the power issues and everything, every single day for us what he can.

And we are getting some new details coming in early, early this morning at New York time from a hostage just released by Hamas. And we'll tell you what it says about Hamas's strategy as we've been discussing.

There is a lot that it tells us implicitly between the lines, as well as explicitly. We're learning new information about the alleged mastermind of the October 7th attacks, how he managed to coordinate such a massive attack without some of the most sophisticated intelligence services in the world knowing about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:53]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Y. LIFSHITZ (through translator): Very well-prepared. They prepared it for a long period of time. All of the needs for female, for women needs, shampoo, conditioner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Just remarkable to believe here. That was moments ago. Yocheved Lifshitz, who was just freed from Hamas captivity, describing her experience after she was kidnapped on a motorbike two weeks ago.

Joining us now with a lot of insight on Hamas, its leadership, "The Economist" Middle East correspondent Nicolas Pelham. He is also the author of a new piece in "The Economist 1843" magazine about Muhammad Deif. He is the man who transformed Hamas from a cluster of terrorist cells into a force capable of invading Israel.

Nicolas, I'm sure you heard her press conference just less than an hour ago. Speak to what she described in terms of specifically how well-prepared Hamas was with all of those medical supplies, all of that planning, to take these hostages.

NICOLAS PELHAM, "THE ECONOMIST 1843 MAGAZINE": It's -- it's astonishing that, if you compare kind of where the military wing of Hamas began in the early 1990s, sort of 30 years ago, to where it is today, it's just transformed from being an amateur bunch of kind of part-time guerillas into an effective fighting force, equipped with ability to -- to operate in the air, at sea, on land and, critically, in a fourth dimension, in the tunnels.

[06:20:31]

And I think it's there which -- that has been its strength. That -- that was the one area where Israel didn't have visibility. And of what was happening underground and the extent of the preparation and sort of the arsenal that Hamas had managed to collect and the degree to which it was dug in and could operate across borders.

MATTINGLY: Nicolas, in your piece, which is excellent, as Poppy is noting, you write, it's about Muhammad Deif, who's the leader of Hamas and its -- his ability to be a phantom of sorts. As there's been so many attempts to assassinate him. He's been injured multiple times. He's lost most of his family members, if not all.

But in the piece, you said this "decision to commit mass murder has invited a furious military response, which may well result in his own death. But it did create turmoil across the whole region and put Palestine at the top of the global agenda, which was one of Hamas's main goals."

The shock in the wake of this attack, because there was not a sense that they could do this. And yet, your story traces the origin, not just of one man, but of the military wing and its entirety. Were you surprised by the scale of what happened on October 7th?

PELHAM: Again, if you look back at the course of the last sort of 20 years, Hamas has toyed with political options. It's discussed ceasefires, extended ceasefires, even some form of armistice, some form of recognition. It's talked about ways in which it could even, at some point, disarm.

And I think you can look back at that period now as a kind of -- as a history of -- of missed opportunities where the politics was sidelined in favor of military -- of military power.

And I guess if you look at the career of Muhammad Deif, the one thing that is -- (AUDIO GAP) -- except for his survival, which again, is pretty unusual in the military wing, but the one thing that is a constant is his belief that there wasn't going to be a political solution to, essentially, a political conflict without some cataclysmic event. And I think that's what he set out to -- to deliver in the most horrific of ways.

HARLOW: Nicolas, could you also speak more broadly to the role of Qatar in all of this? Obviously, they were crucial in negotiating this release and the release of the hostages on Friday.

But the "Atlantic" piece over the weekend, "The Reckoning is Coming," argues -- and I'll just quote it -- "For too long, Doha has Danced between its Islamist allies and its Western and Arab partners. The music just stopped."

Talk about the huge influence that Qatar has over Hamas but also the huge connection it has to the West, to the United States specifically, in negotiating hostage releases like this.

PELHAM: It is absolutely correct that Qatar of all the states in the gulf has been Dancing and Islamist tune. It was kind of backing Islamist movements at the time of the Arab Spring 12 years ago. It's been -- it's seen the most, perhaps, well-managed project its influence across the region.

But at the same time it's been Dancing that Islamist Dance, in many ways at the behest of the West, whether it's in negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan or dealing with -- with Hamas, it was very much coordinating with Israel. It was -- Israel and Qatar together that thought that they could

manage Hamas through -- through payments, through financial handouts. And they were pretty much in lock step. There was very little that Qatar did which wasn't with Israel's coordination, partly because it wanted to divide the Palestinian polity into a West Bank -- part in the West Bank, part in Gaza, partly because it did see that -- it did believe that it could manage Hamas and restrain it, restrict it to -- to Gaza.

And I think if you look at the career of Muhammad Deif, you know, he comes from a family which is from the highlands around -- around Jerusalem. He was very much focused on Jerusalem, on the West Bank. And for him, this wasn't a conflict just for sort of ending a blockade in Gaza. It was about trying to resolve an Israeli/Palestinian conflict and absolutely in Palestinian's favor.

And he believed that the only message that was going to be understood by the parties was one of force.

[06:25:00]

MATTINGLY: Yes. That message has now very clearly been sent. The piece is "Hamas's Deadly Phantom: The Man Behind the Attacks" in "The Economist 1843" magazine. It's excellent. Highly recommend it.

Nicolas Pelham, thank you very much for your time.

PELHAM: Thank you for having me.

MATTINGLY: We'll continue to follow all those new developments in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, here in the U.S., it has been three full weeks without a House speaker, and eight Republican candidates are now vying for the job. We're going to break down who's who, where they stand on the big issues and even where they stand on Donald Trump. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Today marks 21 days without a speaker of the House. Just for context, that's not great.

Republicans at this point are no closer to appointing one today than they were three weeks ago. They are moving forward in a process. It's now an eight-way race to be speaker.

These are the eight individuals, the eight men who are currently running for speaker. It's down from nine candidates after Pennsylvania Congressman Dan Meuser dropped out during a conference meeting last night.

Now, Republican leaders say they would like to elect a new speaker by this evening, when they meet again behind closed doors throughout the course of the day.

So you might be wondering, who are these guys, and where do they stand on the key issues? Now, it's important to note, issues not exactly the driving force behind who will be the next speaker in this Republican conference. But where they stand is critical.

Let's start with aid for Ukraine. That has obviously been an issue that has divided the conference over the course of the last several months. And it comes as the administration has put together a very significant emergency aid package, including $60 billion for Ukraine.

When it comes to the last vote on Ukraine aid, back in September, four of the individuals who are running voted yes; four voted no. Tom Emmer, who is a member of leadership, the current House majority whip, he was a yes. Leadership often votes with where the top of the conference is.

Austin Scott, Jack Bergman, Pete Sessions also yes votes.

Mike Johnson, Byron Donalds, Kevin Hern, Gary Palmer, they were all no votes, representing, I think, the split that is very clear within the conference.

What about the 2020 election? That has been a guiding force for the individual who's the current frontrunner in the Republican Party, who was the president back then.

Well, that's a little bit more aligned. Now voted to certify the 2020 election back on January 6th, two Republicans, Tom Emmer and Austin Scott, did vote to certify. Six chose not to at the behest of Trump and many of his allies.

But, before you say Tom Emmer an Austin Scott very much aligned with actual democracy, not necessarily as much. When you look at who signed onto the Texas brief asking the Supreme Court to consider overturning the election, that initial lawsuit, well, all of them who were in Congress at the time, including Emmer, including Austin Scott, they signed on.

So while they voted to certify, Scott and Emmer did sign onto that lawsuit to essentially invalidate the 2020 election.

What about actual votes recently? The Fiscal Responsibility Act, the debt ceiling bill that really launched this entire breakdown, implosion of the Republican conference?

Four of those who are running voted yes on that bill; four voted no. Kind of highlighting the conservative split, to some sort.

But keeping the government open, that's something that they should probably be fairly cognizant of right now. November 17 is the current deadline. Four voted yes; three voted no. One, Byron Donalds, did not vote. The expectation was that he would have voted no.

The one primary split you see, where one member splits off from the rest is on gay marriage, where Tom Emmer did vote on the Protect Same- Sex Marriage Act in 2022. Emmer is a yes. Everybody else is a no.

This isn't one of the top issues within the conference right now, but what this underscores, this entire kind of range of issues, is that this isn't necessarily an issue-based election.

[06:30:00]