Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Hamas Releases Two More Hostages; Israeli Citizen Held Hostage by Hamas Details Preparations Made by Hamas to Hold Prisoners Underground; Israeli Hostage Released by Hamas Criticizes Israeli Intelligence for Unpreparedness for Hamas Attack; IDF Spokesman: "We're not in a Rush" on War Against Hamas, Doctors: Gaza Fuel Shortage is a Death Sentence; Gaza Hospitals Overwhelmed Amid Fuel Shortage; Michael Cohen to Testify at Trump Fraud Trial Today. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAUL WHELAN, AMERICAN DETAINED IN RUSSIA: I don't know. But I'm being promised that I won't be left behind here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Whelan has also said that he believes that Blinken is someone who truly cares about the situation. Poppy, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: It's a remarkable conversation you had. You should read the story on CNN, cnn.com. Jennifer Hansler, great reporting as always. Thank you.

And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Erin Burnett live with us in Tel Aviv. And that is where a hostage released by Hamas yesterday is now speaking. She is telling her story. This morning at the hospital, 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz told reporters how she was abducted and held captive underground for weeks.

MATTINGLY: The grandmother says hordes of Hamas fighters stormed her kibbutz during the massacre and took her away on a motorbike and beat her with sticks. She says they took her in Hamas's underground tunnel network and held had her with four other hostages. They had guards, a doctor, and a paramedic who took care of them and gave them medicine. She says Hamas had a stockpile of shampoo and other toiletries for hostages to use.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are huge network of tunnels underneath. It looks like a spiderweb. When she first arrived, they told them that they are Muslims and they are not going to hurt them. And that they share -- they ate the same food that the Hamas was eating.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Hamas has now released four hostages as Israeli troops gear up to launch an assault, they say, on Gaza by ground, sea, and air. The Israeli military says it struck more than 400 targets across Gaza in the past day, killing Hamas commanders and fighters. This as more than 200 hostages are still believed to be held by Hamas inside Gaza, and we've learned that includes 30 children.

Let's go to Erin Burnett. She joins us live, again, this hour in Tel Aviv. Erin, hearing from her, all of those details, including, by the way, some criticism of the IDF and lack of preparedness, was remarkable this morning.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it was remarkable. And she did have criticism for the IDF. And you know how they, obviously, weren't there. Also, Poppy, some things stands out in their mundane necessity. You are talking about tunnels. We know these tunnels have ventilation. We know that they've been known to have air-conditioning. This has all been reports that we have heard from the Israelis over the years. But the fact that she is saying she was held underground for more than two weeks, that there was shampoo, there was antibiotics, there was a guard per hostage in the experience she had, that there were medics and paramedics. And, obviously, she is elderly. The other woman who was released also elderly and had medical needs, and they had the medicine needed, and if not something similar to replace it, it is pretty stunning, because you've got to contrast that with what's happening above the ground, right, where there isn't water, never mind shampoo, OK. They don't have water. They're using toilet water. There is no morphine for any kind of amputations, antibiotics, no, right. But Hamas had stockpiled all of that and has all of that underground, and that's what we are learning from her.

MATTINGLY: And to that point, Erin, and I want to play the sound from here on this, because it gets at just how prepared they were for taking hostages including at the scale that they took them. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): They looked very well prepared. They prepared it for a long period of time. All of the needs for female, that women need, shampoo, conditioner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Did that surprise you? Everyone was surprised by the scale of the actual terror attack itself, but the preparations for hostage- taking also seemed to be a significant piece of the plan.

BURNETT: Yes. When they say prepared for women's needs, OK, they were there for -- prepared -- I mean, that's just go ahead. I think we are going honest about it. That means they had tampons and things, OK? That is a level of preparation for what they were going to do, right. And it shows that they were going to take people of all different ages, right. It shows a preparation for that. And we saw that in the plans that we have seen taken from the bodies of Hamas militants who were killed in the terrorist attack, that it lays out what they were going to do in every single kibbutz and it also laid out very explicitly in the ones that I've had a chance to read what they were going to do with hostages. Take as many as possible. Here is the communal eating area in this kibbutz, this is where they go. This is how you get there. Here is the map, it's circled. Take the hostages there. So that was very much a part of the printed plan. And now you see the other end of it, the level of preparation that went into it.

[08:05:00]

But again, in the mundane reality of having feminine hygiene products, shampoo and antibiotics, it is those very specifics I think that are most striking.

HARLOW: For sure. And Erin, also, I wonder if we'll learn from her or some of the other hostages released how much they had, which would indicate how long they had been planning or have been planning to hold the hostages. So we'll see.

I also thought this was striking that her daughter Sharone spoke at that news conference as well. And this is what she said about her dad, who, of course, is Yocheved's husband. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARONE LIFSHITZ, MOTHER RELEASED BY HAMAS: My mom and my dad was separated at the very beginning. And so we do not know from my mom's story what happened to my dad. We do know that he was injured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Injured and very likely could still be being held.

BURNETT: Yes, absolutely. They were held in separate places. So as much as Hamas is, again, giving this image of humane treatment to hostages, you must remember again that they were hostages. Remember what happened to the people who didn't get to become hostages. The horrible and brutal and inhuman method of their brutal massacre and slaughter. But then when they did take people hostages, they would separate. So a husband and wife not being together and she doesn't know where he is. And that, of course, is the obvious -- raises the obvious point, that we don't know where they are being held and are there any being held in larger groups.

We know Hamas has said that some of the hostages have been killed in Israeli airstrikes. We don't know if they have been killed. We don't know if they were killed by Israeli airstrikes or anything else. But all we know at this point is what Hamas has said. They have indicated 22 have been killed in strikes. We just don't know if it's true.

The Israeli forces preparing for the Gaza ground invasion are getting counsel from an American military leader now here on the ground in Israel. Marine Corps Lieutenant General James Glynn was head of the Marine Corps' special operations command, and it is unclear, though, while of course he has the experience and the resume for such a situation, it is unclear what his specific role is here. But an official does say General Glynn, of course, has decades of experience and can ask what they say are the hard questions as the United States does not have a clear of Israel's intentions in Gaza, right. They said they're going to get rid of Hamas in all respect. But beyond that, what that actually means, they have not provided any specifics.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Sderot, Israel, where he has been since the beginning of this war. As Nic, we have been in the midst of what is now 17 days into a war, what are you seeing in terms of military movement this morning in the context of, what, more than 300 strikes that Israel is saying they conducted in the past 24 hours in Gaza?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and just to go back to what you were saying there about the former marine general, I think the other piece of context here, of course, is the fact that we know that there is a marine expeditionary unit of 2,000 who have been on readiness and standby to come in give logistics support and other unspecified support to the Israeli military at a time when there are American hostages being held by Hamas inside Gaza.

So it seems, when you pick and choose which general to come and give what sort of advice, you are also picking one who would be very familiar with the sort of expertise, readiness, and what these marines who are sitting just offshore have at their disposal. It speaks to me as coordination as well. Of course, that's not what we're being told.

But when it comes to the readiness, we heard from the prime minister today, Prime Minister Netanyahu, when he was speaking with the French President Emmanuel Macron who has given his support to Israel's right to strike back to Hamas, the prime minister said it could be a long war. I am struck by the fact he said it could be because until now he has been very clear, saying we will go after them and we'll get the job done, we'll completely get hid of Hamas.

But I think this is also indicative of the fact that there is no stepping back from the possibility of a ground incursion. We are not seeing anything on the ground at the moment that would indicate that. We'll sill hearing heavy detonations coming from within Gaza. We've heard military helicopters in the area this morning. So what we heard from the Israeli defense chief yesterday, head of general staff, saying that they are ready, that troops are ready, that they are getting additional training.

But I think the posture is set for when the command comes that the troops are ready for that incursion. Very clear that they are being paused for a clear -- that has to do with humanitarian aid, has to do with hostages, quite the connections we don't see. But that force is there. It's ready to go. I don't see anyone pulling it back at the moment, Erin.

BURNETT: Nic Robertson, thank you very much along the Gaza border in Sderot, appreciate that.

[08:10:00]

And I want to go now to the IDF spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Colonel, I appreciate your time. I'm glad to speak with you this morning. I want to give you, first, a chance to response to what we were saying was one of the things that stood out as this hostage has spoken out, that Hamas was prepared for this. Feminine hygiene products, shampoo, antibiotics, paramedics, medical care, eating the same food as the hostages ate. How do you respond to that?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Well, clearly, Erin, they were prepared for the attack. We see just the magnitude of their attacks. They had a very clear plan of action, so it shouldn't be any surprise to us that this is what they had underground as they abducted over 200 people into Gaza.

I remind you, they did a coordinated attack with more than 20 points of breach overground, at ground, and at sea. They penetrated some 30 different communities across the -- across southern Israel, and butchered and murdered and raped over 1,400 people. So why should we be surprised if that was the level of preparation, they are also taking care of the preparations required for the people that they intended to abduct.

And as you rightly pointed out, the hygiene items identify the fact that they were actually intended to abduct women, intending to abduct the elderly. They didn't care. They just wanted to abduct Israelis for Israelis. Civilians is what they are holding. They need to released, they need to be released now. And this is the situation we are in today.

BURNETT: Colonel, I want to give you a chance to respond now to the reporting. Brock (ph) Rivi (ph) from "Axios" was just on reporting that Israel is willing to delay its ground invasion for a few more days. Obviously, it's already been delayed. You have been ready go for 16 days, 15 days, whatever the technical day point may be here that you want to say since you were ready. But they're willing to delay for a large hostage release, and a senior Israeli official telling him, if Hamas proposing a big package, of course, we will be ready to do things in return. Can you comment on that?

LERNER: Erin, I can't comment specifically, but I would say there are two conditions for any ground mobilization of the IDF. First of all, of course, the government decision to mobilize. There needs to be a green light from the government that tells us to go in. War is the political intercourse by other means, and that is why there is need for a political dialogue or diplomatic dialogue to be ongoing.

The second component is operational -- the optimal operational requirements of a military ground operation. With every day that goes by, we are a more professional force, a more prepared, a better prepared, a better equipped force. So we are not in a rush. As you rightly pointed out, the government hasn't limited our timeframe for this operation. On the contrary, they have said it will take a long time because we understand that fighting this type of war is a very challenging process. So we are not in a rush. We are determined to destroy Hamas, make sure it can never, never ever attack our people, abduct our people, butcher our people, murder our people, and that's where we are heading at this time. So until those two conditions are made clear, that is basically where we will be standing. We need to be prepared. We need the government to give us that green light. BURNETT: I want to play something else that Yocheved Lifshitz, one the

hostages, said when she was speaking this morning, specifically about Israeli intelligence and what happened to her that morning. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): The lack of awareness by Shin Bet and IDF hurt just a lot. They warned us three weeks beforehand. They sent fields, they sent fire balloons, and the IDF did not treat it seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, Colonel, can you respond to that? She is saying specifically, and it appears to be from conversations that she would have had with her captors, that Israeli Defense Forces and the Israeli intelligence apparatus, both domestic and foreign focused, had a three-week warning. She goes into the detail on that, and say that they failed. What do you say to that?

LERNER: Erin, clearly there is a failure on several levels of the IDF's readiness and preparedness, the intelligence community. There will be a time to investigate and get to the bottom of it exactly what was missed, if it was, indeed, these fires that were launched, these incendiary devices that were launched against Israel, and was this the warning sign that should have prepared us for this attack?

[08:15:00]

But indeed, there is the intelligence failure, the barrier failure, the forces on the ground failure, all of these will be investigated at a time we are currently focused on making sure it doesn't happen again.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Colonel, colonel, one more final question. Hamas has said that 22 of the hostages have been killed in Israeli airstrikes. We don't know whether they were killed in Israeli airstrikes or any other way, and we don't know if those numbers are we don't know anything.

Do you know do you think that 22 hostages have been killed?

LERNER: Here's what I know. We are conducting small scale raids around the border, and we're still collecting bodies of Israelis that they had killed on the way as they were abducting them into Gaza. We know that we need to be very cautious in taking anything that Hamas has to say, because their whole operation is an operation of manipulation and death.

So, I would say let's not listen to what Hamas is saying. They need to release the hostages; they need to release them now. They need to let Yocheved's husband free. We heard from her daughter about the concern for her father, and they need to release the other 200 or so hostages go.

They need to let them go now, that is what we're demanding. That is what we expect, and that is the situation.

BURNETT: Colonel Lerner, thank you for your time this morning, I appreciate it, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Erin, thank you. A lot of important information from him, and we'll get back to you very soon. We're also, of course, focusing on the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that is getting worse not just by the day, but by the hour.

Food, fuel, water running out as these airstrikes continue. Clarissa Ward is with us, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: In Gaza, a limited number of trucks have crossed the Rafah border carrying supplies of water, food, and medicine. Aid agencies are calling for a ceasefire as doctors warn that without a lot more fuel, the wounded and vulnerable babies will die.

Hamas says there is a power outage at one of the hospitals in Gaza due to that fuel shortage. At Shifa Hospital, one doctor warns it will soon become a mass grave if that fuel runs out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. GHASSAN ABU-SITTAH, BRITISH-PALESTINIAN DOCTOR: If it runs out of electricity, we have 150 patients who are ventilated because of the critical nature of their rooms. We cannot run the operating rooms; we cannot run the anesthetic machines.

And effectively, the hospital, which now has around 1700 wounded patients, three times its capacity, will cease to exist as a hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Clarissa Ward joins us live from Cairo, Egypt, this morning. Clarissa, despite those realities that not only he but doctors, heads of aid organizations have been laying out. Mark Regev, so, a close advisor to Benjamin Netanyahu made it clear last night on CNN to Kaitlan, "No, we are not going to allow fuel in", because the Israeli argument is Hamas takes it and uses it for terror.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, and so you have this intractable issue, Poppy, but the humanitarian situation growing more dire by the second you talk to those doctors, it's not even just about incubators or ventilators. It's about desalination plants.

Don't forget the water, doctors tell us people are drinking brackish water, that they're seeing a huge spike in preeclampsia in pregnant women because of the lack of pure water. They need those generators to power those desalination plant efforts. And so, the knock-on effect of this lack of fuel is catastrophic.

But despite the efforts of humanitarian organizations, regional governments, western diplomats, and everyone coming to the table, the Israelis said, as you just articulated, as they told Kaitlan Collins, that they believe that it can be used for military purposes, it can be stolen by Hamas.

So, unclear how this issue will get resolved, but in the meantime, it is having dire consequences. We interviewed a doctor yesterday who said two days left. So potentially, you're talking about tomorrow, as early as tomorrow, totally running out of fuel.

They have already, according to health officials inside Gaza, turned off lights, for example, turned off air conditioning. They have tried to limit their consumption to the maximum of their ability. But the reality is, without fuel, you are going to see a huge number of deaths potentially, and still no sense that there is progress being made on finding some kind of a mechanism to appropriately deal with this issue, Poppy.

HARLOW: Also, the calculations that you and your team did about how much aid is actually getting into Gaza other aid is stunning. It's about 1% of what normally would have gone into Gaza in the last couple of weeks.

WARD: Right, so literally, before the war, you're talking 455 trucks a day of aid going into Gaza. That's according to the UN. So, over a 16, 17-day period, normally you would have had more than 7000 trucks of aid going into Gaza. In the last 17 days and it's really just been the last three days, you haven't even had 60 trucks of aid going in.

And don't forget, Poppy, all of this is happening against the backdrop of some of the most relentless and punishing bombardment. Israel saying in the last 24 hours, they hit 400 targets. That is the highest number we have seen so far. The Gazan Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas, saying that 700 people were killed in 24 hours.

So, you understand that even in a best-case scenario, these hospitals are completely overwhelmed, completely overrun. We talked to one doctor who said in previous escalations, we might see a mass casualty event once or twice a day.

Now we're seeing one every single hour, and so that issue of getting in food, of getting in fresh water, crucially, of getting in medical supplies and of getting in fuel becomes that much more urgent.

[08:25:00]

HARLOW: And just quickly, before you go, how striking to you to hear what the released hostage said this morning, Clarissa, about all of the medical supplies that Hamas has taken for those hostages? It's just such a stark contrast to what the hospitals in Gaza are dealing with.

WARD: It's a stark contrast, and honestly, it's chilling because it speaks to the level of preparation that was in place, the fact that when she was led into these tunnels, there were doctors waiting to treat her.

Hamas understands that these hostages are very valuable, both on a propaganda level, in terms of trying to show the outside world that they're treating them with decency or respect, which, of course, by all accounts, they are certainly not.

But also, in terms of leverage, they understand they need to try to keep as many of these hostages alive as possible, and that is not true. It does not appear for Palestinian civilians.

HARLOW: Yeah, Clarissa Ward, thank you so much for the reporting live from Cairo, Egypt, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, just a few hours. Michael Cohen is expected to be called to testify in the New York civil fraud trial against his old boss, Donald Trump.

HARLOW: And it has been 21 days can you believe it? Since the house has had a speaker, are we anywhere near resolution? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In just a few hours in the New York Civil Fraud trial against Donald Trump, his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen is expected to be called to testify. This will be the first time in five years that Cohen and Trump are in the same room together.

New York Attorney General Leticia James's office has said that it initially opened its investigation after Cohen's testimony to Congress alleging that Trump inflated the value of his properties. Now, this all comes as Trump was fined $5,000 last week for violating the judge's gag order.

Let's go down with CNN's Brynn Gingras was live outside the New York courthouse. First time in five years in the same room. They used to be incredibly close. What do we expect today?

[08:30:00]