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GOP Conference Nominates Mike Johnson Overnight as Speaker; Israel Rejects Calls for Ceasefire, Launches Large-Scale Attacks; U.S. Urges Israel to Avoid All-Out Ground Assault; Meadow Granted Immunity to Testify in Election Subversion Case. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 25, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:27]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Glad you're with us. We are following three big stories breaking overnight.

There is a new designee to be House speaker. Overnight, Republicans nominated Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson. This morning, many more are sounding much more optimistic than they have in the past three weeks ahead of an expected vote at noon.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And Israel says no to a ceasefire, continuing bombardment of Gaza overnight. This morning, we're learning new information about how the U.S. is urging caution, looking at lessons learned from Iraq.

HARLOW: Also, former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows reportedly strikes a deal with federal prosecutors. ABC News reporting he's offering up testimony about the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election in exchange for immunity.

MATTINGLY: And we start with the breaking news. A new name could soon hang over the House speaker's office. You see it right there. Kevin McCarthy's name just taken down last night, according to our Hill team. And we're now talking about Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson, who the House Republicans have chosen as their fourth speaker designee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Democracy is messy sometimes, but it is our system. This conference that you see, this House Republican majority, is united. Is united.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Seems like he's got momentum behind him ahead of a noon vote today. And Lauren Fox joins us now. We also have our Kasie Hunt with us.

Lauren, what happened overnight?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Obviously, there was an abrupt change of plans last night. They were expecting to come back this morning and have a vote behind

closed doors to see if Mike Johnson could get the 217 votes that he needed. They ended up doing that in the room.

And the expectation is he's going to go to the floor today at noon, try to become the speaker of the House after more than three weeks now since Kevin McCarthy was ousted.

Can he be that consensus candidate? All signs are pointing to the fact that he likely could be. But obviously, we have to wait until noon, because as we've seen time and time again, a lot can change in just a couple of hours.

But obviously, things moving very quickly. Yesterday you had Tom Emmer, who was temporarily the speaker designee, only to then bow out of the race when it became clear, after several hours of conversations with the hold-outs, that he couldn't get there.

Now Mike Johnson is the guy who has that speaker designee title. He's going to head to the floor again at noon. That is when we could see this resolved.

Again, a lot can change, but they're headed to the floor at noon.

HARLOW: Yes. Lauren, stay with us.

Let's also bring in CNN chief national affairs analyst and anchor of "EARLY START," Kasie Hunt. Seems like overnight there's a lot of momentum behind him, hope. What do we need to know about Mike Johnson, and does he pull this off?

HUNT: Yes, it's pretty remarkable.

HARLOW: I'm aware hope is not a strategy, by the way. I'm aware of that.

HUNT: matHope is not a strategy. You are correct.

But it does seem -- and I think, you know, you could tell behind him, as you heard kind of the cheers for him and the way he was talking in that -- in that sound bite that you played --

HARLOW: Yes.

HUNT: -- that the mood around him right now I think is different.

And if you listen to some of the members of Congress who were talking to our -- to Lauren and Manu and those who were on the Hill late last night, you heard both Matt Gaetz on the one side, right, like the guy that took out Kevin McCarthy; and on the other side Mike Lawler, Biden district New Yorker, who really led, you know, the opposition to Jim Jordan. They're actually singing off the same hymnal.

I'm told that we can actually show everybody what they both had to say. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Mike is the right guy. He's an inspirational leader. I'm so excited to elect him speaker of the House.

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Obviously, I did not support the removal of Kevin McCarthy. I -- I think it was arguably the stupidest move ever made in politics. But we have to move forward. And so we're going to rally around Mike Johnson.

REP. MARIO DIAZ-BALART (R-FL): The Republicans, we're back. Our agenda is going to be back on track. We are unified, and we are -- I think we're happy to be where we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So when you have those two saying the exact same thing, you know that you have fixed at least a lot of the problems that exist here.

And I do think there really is this sense of exhaustion that has set in. It's like we've got to fix this.

And Mike Johnson, you know, quite frankly doesn't have, like, a "hell no" conference right now. And I think without that, his path is the smoothest that we have seen so far. Again, to Lauren's point, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

[06:05:08]

HARLOW: That's the bar by the way, not having a "hell no" conference.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Which is, you know, a big win, I guess, to some degree.

Lauren, there were, I think, 20-plus absences last night. And I think the big question that continues to come to mind, to Kasie's point, it's not like a "hell no" conference with him. A lot of people don't know him that well. He's affable. People like him generally within the conference. He's a social conservative, rock-ribbed conservative, to some degree.

But he also led the House Republican efforts to join the Texas lawsuit to try and overturn the 2020 election; talked to Trump constantly about that; used his personal email to try and urge and whip lawmakers to get behind that lawsuit that was thrown out by the Supreme Court. Does that have any effect at all?

FOX: Well, I think for a lot of House Republicans, that actually was -- Tom Emmer's position on supporting the election results was the death knell in his ability to become the speaker. So I'm not actually sure that Johnson's position there is going to be a detractor for him with a lot of House Republicans.

Again, Phil, I just want to urge that we have to wait and see, because so much can change when they go to the floor today at noon.

You know, one of the other major questions I have about Mike Johnson is where does he stand on policy? Where does he stand on the fact that there's going to be a government shutdown on November 17 if they don't pass a government funding bill?

And likely, he's going to need some Democratic support to get that across the finish line, given the fact he's got to work with the Democratic-controlled U.S. Senate.

So I think there's a lot of questions. Some reporters were trying to press him yesterday, if he supported more aid for Ukraine and Israel; and he said that this was not a moment to talk about policy.

But if he becomes the speaker today, just shortly after noon, he's not going to have much time to figure out, on the job, what the next steps are, because that government funding deadline is coming down very, very quickly, and it's going to be here before he really knows it.

HARLOW: And Kasie, can you speak to that point? Phil just pointed out, sort of his conservative bona fides, but also, is he going to work with Democrats on a plan most urgently to, you know, pass funding for Ukraine and Israel but also keep the government running here?

HUNT: Well, don't forget that doing that, working with Democrats to keep the government open, is what threw Kevin McCarthy out of a job.

So the bottom line is he has to do it. There's not really an option. There are members of his conference who will not vote to do those things. And he's going to need Democratic votes to get it across the finish line.

And if he does get the job, he's going to be the most inexperienced speaker, really, in modern memory. And that experience is what you need when you are dealing with really tough situations like what Lauren laid out here.

So he has been -- if you look in -- in the archives to kind of get a sense of how he talks about people. And, Phil, you called him affable, I think that's a really good way -- it's a really good word for him. And he actually has been more affable towards Democrats, towards people like Nancy Pelosi, than has been recently accepted as, you know, how to -- how to handle yourself if you're a conservative leading, you know, the contentious right wing, especially in the House of Representatives.

There is kind of a sense that he is willing to be, you know, magnanimous in terms of how he talks to and about his opponents. So there may be some hope there.

But there has been no one who has been able to successfully govern this conference in a significant way in recent years. I mean, John Boehner bailed on it, you know, said "I'm out" abruptly one day.

Paul Ryan resigned from Congress after trying to do the job. We saw Kevin McCarthy get thrown out. Now, it's taken them now three weeks to try to find somebody new. And while they seem to be pretty happy with themselves right now, none of these fundamental dynamics are changing. MATTINGLY: And they've got 23 days to fund the government, $105

billion emergency supplemental to fund Israel and Ukraine currently on the table.

Let's hope affable works, to some degree. Lauren Fox, Kasie Hunt, another busy day ahead. Thanks, guys.

HUNT: Thanks.

MATTINGLY: And in our next hour, we're going to talk with Congressman Tim Burchett. He was one of the eight Republicans who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy from his speakership three weeks ago. We'll also be talking with the top Democrat in the House, House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries.

Well, overnight Israel rejecting calls for a ceasefire, launching largescale strikes on Gaza. We're live, on the ground in Tel Aviv with the latest.

HARLOW: Also, form members of Donald Trump's inner circle appear to be turning on him under legal heat. We'll talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:13:04]

HARLOW: Well, new this morning, Israel is rejecting calls from some nations for a ceasefire and launching large-scale strikes on Gaza overnight.

This is video now of a Palestinian man asking about his wife while buried in rubble. Explosions can be heard in the background.

And the bombardment coming just hours after the head of the United Nations called Israel's airstrikes, quote, "collective punishment" of the Palestinian people and demanded an immediate ceasefire at a very contentious Security Council meeting yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Those words led to a sharp response from Israeli officials. Meanwhile, the White House is pushing for, quote, "humanitarian pauses" but not a complete ceasefire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: We want to see all measure of protection for civilians, and -- and pauses in operation is a tool and a tactic that can do that for temporary periods of time. That is not the same as saying a ceasefire. Again, right now, we believe a ceasefire benefits Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And we're now learning more about how Hamas may have been able to plan its huge surprise attack on October 7th and massacre without Israel even knowing. Sources tell CNN intelligence shared with the U.S. suggests a small cell of Hamas operatives used a network of phone lines beneath Gaza to communicate and plan the attack for more than two years.

HARLOW: The humanitarian crisis is deepening for the roughly 2 million civilians that are trapped inside of the warzone in Gaza. The United Nations relief agency inside of Gaza says it will need to shut down operations today if they do not get more fuel.

Let's go to Erin Burnett. She joins us live from Tel Aviv. I mean, this has been the key focus of the last 24 hours, Erin, has been fuel. And the Israeli government has been adamant: absolutely not, we believe it falls into the hands of Hamas. But hospitals are literally closing because of no fuel.

[06:15:12]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: They are. And you know, when we've spoken to doctors, some doctors you know, even able to basically, essentially record -- I hear some explosions in the background -- are able to record what they're hearing. And you hear explosions we've even been able to geolocate happening around that same time near that hospital.

So the situation there is -- is obviously dire from the medical perspective. That's the reality on the ground there. They're saying that they need more fuel to even function.

Obviously, as you know, operating without morphine, the situation dire.

We also have now images of Egypt using these giant cement slabs, Phil and Poppy, that they've been putting back in front of the Rafah crossing that they say that they can lift when they need to to let aid in. But nonetheless, the images, the power of such massive concrete blocking that is not lost on anyone.

MATTINGLY: You know, Erin, I remain struck by what we heard from Yocheved Lifshitz yesterday one of the hostages released about her frustrations about how little they seemed to know about the IDF even though there were signs. New reporting that we have is extensive planning for this attack is staggering in its entirety.

It absolutely is. And you know, you heard from Yocheved Lifshitz yesterday, one of the hostages who was released, about her frustrations about how little they seemed to know, in terms of the IDF, in terms of Shin Bet, even though there were signs.

The new reporting we have on Hamas's extensive planning for this attack is staggering, in its entirety.

BURNET: It absolutely is. And you know, you've heard from Yocheved Lifshitz her frustration. I was actually -- spent about 45 minutes with her grandson last night. And he shared that incredible frustration.

You know, that why would his grandmother and all of these innocent people have been put in such a horrific situation because of this -- this failure?

And the reporting. We have Pamela Brown saying that they were using land lines. They were deep underground. But that when they were actually doing the preparations above ground, right, like actually the dry runs, that Israel saw it and just didn't recognize it for what it is. Thought it was more of the same.

So it's sort of sometimes that something is staring you in the face, and you don't necessarily recognize what it is.

But you know, we've seen the battle plans. I've seen them from two of the kibbutz that were found on the Hamas soldiers. They are dated a year before and extremely specific.

But land lines part, the numbers are actually in the documents. And you see, you know, sort of an X and an extension almost like sort of like a corporate office type of thing. It is truly staggering.

And Pamela's reporting, showing that they were doing this, meetings in person deep underground. And keeping it to just a few people for so long.

And there is also new reporting today that says American military officials are trying to -- are trying to use lessons that the United States learned with its own serious failures in the Iraq War to help Israeli forces game out different strategies to defeat Hamas in, obviously, an incredibly densely-population urban environment.

The U.S. is trying to steer Israel away from endangering hostages and civilians with a full-scale ground assault in Gaza and instead urging them to use a combination of precision airstrikes, which they have been doing, several overnight, another commander, two more -- every day Hamas commanders killed in these precision strikes.

But the U.S. wants more of that and special operations raids.

And our Natasha Bertrand joins us now.

So Natasha, what are you learning about what the U.S. is specifically pushing? It's obviously very consistent with what Israel has been doing so far. But is Israel changing its longer term plans or strategy based on this?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, a Western source did tell us, Erin, that the Israelis are being cautious in how they plan their next moves; because they don't necessarily want to lose any moral high ground amongst the international community. You could argue that it is a little too late for that. Certainly

critics have already.

But a senior Israeli official also acknowledged that we appreciate what the U.S. is advising of us, because of course, the U.S. has a lot of experience fighting insurgents in Iraq, including in Fallujah and Mosul more recently.

And so they understand what the U.S. is trying to communicate to them.

But still, the sentiment across the U.S. government is that Israel is likely to move forward with a large-scale ground invasion. And that is something that the Biden administration and the U.S. and these military advisers are trying to discourage.

And so to that end, they have sent these military advisers over to Israel, including three-star Marine Corps General James Glynn, who has so much experience leading troops during that battle for Fallujah, which was extremely bloody, door-to-door street-to-street fighting.

And basically, he is telling the Israelis, this is not the kind of strategy that you want to deploy in Gaza. It is very difficult. It is bloody. And of course, you know, learn from our mistakes, essentially.

HARLOW: Yes.

BERTRAND: And so the U.S. now saying, Look, you don't want to go into this without a fully-baked strategy. And right now the U.S. does not see the Israelis as having that.

A key part of that strategy, of course, as the U.S. learned from its war on terror, is to have an exit plan. Don't get bogged down. And don't engage in a prolonged occupation of the Gaza Strip.

[06:20:07]

The U.S. isn't so sure that Israel is heeding that advice, but they are doing what they can to provide it.

BURNETT: Yes. Well, and certainly, you know, we see what the numbers, hundreds of strikes a day, and that they're listing the Hamas commanders that they are getting in each one. They have been doing those precision strikes, obviously, with great success, although thus far, every time we've questioned them, of course, Natasha, they've refused to say how many -- what percent of Hamas commanders have you killed, what percent of their capacity have you taken out, their weaponry.

Obviously, the IDF hasn't answered that.

But the United States, Natasha, also, you know, you've got these protests around the region. You have rising tensions. And I understand from your reporting that there's been at least 13 attacks on U.S. interests in Iraq and Syria over just the past few days. What do you know about that? BERTRAND: Yes, these attacks by these Iranian proxy militia groups,

according to the Pentagon, they have ramped up significantly over the last week. Over a dozen on forces in -- in Iraq and Syria at U.S. and coalition bases there.

And the U.S. is taking this very seriously. And they are surging air defense assets to the region to try to protect the U.S. troops who are based in Iraq and Syria as part of the anti-ISIS coalition there.

So they have deployed THAAD missile. They have deployed patriot batteries. And they are doing everything they can to try to preempt a possible larger escalation of these attacks by, of course, positioning a lot of firepower in the region, including those aircraft carriers.

And so something the U.S. is very concerned about, Erin, but they are taking all the steps they need, they say, to try to prevent any escalation and further harm to troops.

BURNETT: Natasha, thank you very much with all of her new reporting this morning.

Phil and Poppy, back to you in New York.

MATTINGLY: All right, Erin. Stay with us. We'll be coming back to you shortly, but we also want to focus on another major story. Former President Trump's White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, reportedly cooperating with federal investigators in exchange for immunity. That new reporting just ahead.

HARLOW: Also this is a New York courtroom. Trump's former attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen, squaring off against his former boss. The details of that testimony also ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: Heck of a reunion. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:26:12]

HARLOW: Welcome back. In the federal election interference case against Donald Trump, the former president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, has been granted immunity by the special counsel, Jack Smith.

This is a big deal. We've learned from ABC that he has met several times with Smith's team. Meadows allegedly told investigators that he did not believe the election was stolen and talked about this moment on election day. This was November of 2020. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Frankly, we did win this election. We did win this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Meadows specifically refuting that, reportedly telling investigators earlier this year that he believed Trump was being, quote, "dishonest" when he said that.

Kristen Holmes joins us, live from Washington. Gosh, this answers a whole lot of questions, and raises a number of questions about so many people have been wondering what about Mark Meadows? We haven't heard a lot from Mark Meadows. What about Mark Meadows? Well, now we know who he's been talking to.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy, this has been a big question. It's been a big question in Trump's orbit, as well.

Now, this just joins a growing number of these deals that are happening in these Trump lawsuits, in these Trump legal perils. And I've talked to a number of sources in Trump's orbit who say they don't really know exactly what this means, but there is a growing concern, particularly when it comes to Mark Meadows.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President!

HOLMES (voice-over): Former President Trump's legal perils growing worse as former allies and associates are striking deals in several different cases.

ABC News reports that former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows was granted immunity by Special Counsel Jack Smith in his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Federal prosecutors met with Meadows at least three times and focused on his conversations with Trump following the election defeat.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mark Meadows was, as you know, Wolf, Donald Trump's shadow the entire time he was chief of staff. He will know every conversation, every lie, every illegal action that was taken by Donald Trump. And he's going to be able to testify to it.

HOLMES (voice-over): According to ABC News, Meadows told investigators that he did not believe the election was stolen and that Trump was being, quote, "dishonest" in claiming victory shortly after the polls closed in 2020.

CNN has reached out to Meadows' attorney for comment.

Trump, responding on Truth Social, quote, "I don't think Mark Meadows would lie about the rigged and stolen 2020 presidential election merely for getting immunity against prosecution, persecution, by deranged prosecutor Jack Smith."

And in Fulton County, Georgia, for the third time in one week, a former attorney of Trumps has struck a plea deal with District Attorney Fani Willis.

JENNA ELLIS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I failed to do my due diligence.

HOLMES (voice-over): Appearing in a Georgia courtroom, former Trump campaign lawyer Jenna Ellis pleaded guilty to one felony charge of aiding and abetting false statements, receiving five years of probation, and ordered to pay $5,000 in restitution.

ELLIS: If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse.

COHEN: Heck of a reunion.

HOLMES (voice-over): Meanwhile, former Trump attorney Michael Cohen squaring off against his former boss.

TRUMP: He's a liar. He's trying to get a better deal for himself, but it's not going to work.

HOLMES (voice-over): Sitting just feet away from Trump in a New York courtroom Tuesday, marking the first time the two have been face-to- face in five years.

TRUMP: We're not worried at all about his testimony.

HOLMES (voice-over): Cohen testified in the $250 million civil fraud trial against Trump and his colleagues, alleging repeated fraud by inflating company values to obtain better deals.

Cohen says Trump sought false property comparisons to boost the value of his real-estate holdings.

Trump, he said, quote, "was the only one who could accept them."

COHEN: This is not about Donald Trump versus Michael Cohen, or Michael Cohen versus Donald Trump.

[06:30:00]