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Israel Rejects Calls for Ceasefire, Launches Large-Scale Strikes; ABC News Reports, Meadows Granted Immunity in DOJ's Election Probe; GOP's Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA) Picked as New Speaker Nominee, Floor Vote Today. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 25, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quote, it's coming. That is the message of the Israeli prime minister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hamas operatives used hard-wired phones in the tunnels over a period of two years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fueled the center of the hostage negotiations and of the desperation of getting aid to people inside.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans have chosen yet another nominee for speaker of the House.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mike Johnson won the majority, but there's a real warning for him to get the 217 votes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been a waste in three weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This House Republican majority is united.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Jack Smith has secured his most valuable witness yet, Mark Meadows.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Prosecutors do not hand out immunity agreements like candy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark Meadows was at the center of so much of this. He could speak to Trump's mindset in a very specific way.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning, everyone. I'm Phil Mattingly with Poppy Harlow in New York. Erin Burnett is live with us in Tel Aviv.

And new this morning, Israel rejecting calls for a ceasefire and launching large-scale strikes once again on Gaza overnight. This video you're watching now is of a Palestinian man buried in the rubble asking if his wife is okay.

Explosions can be heard in the background and bombardment coming just hours after the head of the United Nations called Israel's airstrikes, quote, collective punishment of the Palestinian people and demanded an immediate ceasefire at a contentious Security Council meeting.

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ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces the level of civilian casualties and wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That jury very sharp and angry response from Israel's foreign minister.

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ELI COHEN, ISRAEL'S FOREIGN MINISTER: I hear the calls as, say, Lin (ph) before, for a ceasefire. Tell me, what is a proportionate response for killing of babies, for raped women and burned them, for beheading of a child? How you can agree to a ceasefire with someone who's sworn to kill and destroy your own existence. How?

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HARLOW: And we are now learning this morning how Hamas may have been able to plan secretly its huge surprise attack and massacre without Israel knowing. Sources tell CNN Intelligent shared with the United States shows a small cell of Hamas operatives used to network of phone lines in the underground tunnels beneath Gaza to communicate and plan their attack for more than two years.

MATTINGLY: The humanitarian crisis is deepening for roughly 2 million civilians trapped in the underground tunnels inside the war zone. A United Nations relief agency inside Gaza says it will need to shut down operations today if it does not receive more fuel.

Let's go straight to Erin Burnett joining us live from Tel Aviv. Erin, we have this new reporting I want to ask you about into CNN just moments ago, Qatar's prime minister saying he's hopeful for a breakthrough soon on the hostages held by Hamas. What do we know about these intensive conversations? Qatar has really been at the center of all of these talks.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: They have. And, in fact, the Israeli national security adviser coming out today and saying, and I quote, Qatar's diplomatic efforts are crucial at this time. So, Israel is also acknowledging the important role that Qatar is playing. And it is the prime minister there that says he is hopeful for a breakthrough soon on the hostages. We know that Qatar and Egypt obviously have been mediating. You've seen them involved with the two releases thus far. I actually spoke to an Israeli hostage negotiator, the man who was responsible for the release of, you may remember the IDF soldier, Gilad Shalit. He -- who was held for five years, right, before he was finally released.

This man was telling me that he's been speaking to Hamas daily, that he understands that there is a big release on the table, a mass release of civilian hostages being discussed. I emphasize the word civilian, because the way that Hamas may define IDF could be quite broad, right, as Israelis go through military service in the IDF and as part of just a regular thing that they do, right? So, that may be more broadly defined than people would think, but certainly children and elderly included in what be a mass release.

He said though that the conversations on who would go first and who should blame is very much at the kindergarten level and had some deep frustration about where it is right now, but did say that the holdups, of course, are the fuel, as we know, that is a huge one, and also that Hamas is demanding a ceasefire, which would enable them to have some time to regroup.

So, it is all consistent that a big conversation has been going on for days for a mass release and very telling that Qatar is willing to come out and express confidence and that Israel is bolstering that, but obviously we're not there yet, Phil.

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HARLOW: Erin, we heard Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday speaking to soldiers again in the IDF and saying very clearly to them, the next phase is coming. What has happened overnight and what does that mean?

BURNETT: So, they've been saying the next stage and then you've had the defense minister going and visiting troops, you've had the Navy and they all are saying your time is coming, be ready. In a sense, part of this appears to be really an implicit acknowledgement that these troops have been ready to go and frankly expected to go in quite some time ago and that there has been delays, and that's just the reality of it.

So, they continually visit the front lines to tell them essentially be strong, stay ready, your moment will come. So, it's a lot of that psychological support.

But the strikes continue and we've heard, you know, Nic Robertson reporting on these new precision mortar munitions that Israel has been using that are different than anything they've used before. They even sound different. We've heard that both from Nic as they go in and I've heard that from a source in Northern Gaza saying that it sounds completely different.

But even overnight, hundreds more strikes. They said they killed the commander of the Khan Yunis North Battalion of Hamas, who they say has been instrumental in many terrorist attacks. This morning saying that they found a tunnel, Phil and Poppy, that actually came from Gaza to a beach on the Israeli side and that they said two Hamas operatives came out of that, engaged in a fight with Israeli Special Forces who were there and the Hamas operatives were killed.

But this is happening day in and day out. And while we don't yet know how many Hamas operatives, how many commanders, how much capacity, capability, operational and command centers have been taken out, we do know that they're taking them out every single day, every single day and there are hundreds of strikes.

So, Israel is making in this 19th day of the war steady progress even as they have not yet gotten to that next stage as they call it, Phil and Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Yes, an important point. Erin Burnett, stay with us. We'll come back to you shortly. Thank you.

HARLOW: Also, just in, a report that President Biden is trying to slow down the ground invasion of Gaza. Despite his vocal support for Israel's right to strike Hamas, "Axios' is reporting that the president has several concerns, including wanting more aid for civilians in Gaza and trying to get Americans that are trapped there out.

"Axios" also says President Biden is motivated by military concerns, including fears of a ground invasion with a huge civilian death toll that does not destroy Hamas, and a widening of the war.

It comes as sources tell CNN that U.S. military advisers are invoking a lessons learned from the war in Iraq and Afghanistan to urge Israelis to avoid an all-out ground war in Gaza.

With me now from the State Department, spokesman Matthew Miller.

And, Matt, I really appreciate your time this morning.

Let's just begin on that news. Is it the administration's goal to slow down Israel?

MATTHEW MILLER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: So, I'm not going to talk about the call -- the private conversations we have between our government and the government of Israel, only that -- except to say that when we do talk with the government of Israel, both from the State Department and from other -- other agencies inside the U.S. government, as well as the White House, we have said a number of things. One, we think they need to have clear, definable goals in launching this military campaign, that they need to have a plan for how to execute it best, and they need to have a plan for how to best protect civilians.

We know that that's important to them. It's important to us. You've heard the president speak to this a number of times. And, of course, the secretary has spoken to this a number of times.

And at the same time, we continue to work to try to get humanitarian access -- humanitarian aid into Gaza for the innocent civilians who are not part of Hamas and who are suffering from this conflict as well.

HARLOW: Yeah. On the point of civilians, which, yes, we've heard the president, the secretary of state say it a number of times. Let's just take Monday as an example.

CNN is reporting, is it 700 civilians were killed by Israeli airstrikes in Gaza on Monday. On the same day, about that day, this is what Benjamin Netanyahu said, quote: In our attacks in Gaza, we struck the enemy at the harshest blow they've taken in a single day. We killed dozens of terrorists, possibly even more.

Is it the Biden administration's position that it is comfortable with about 700 civilian deaths with dozens of terrorists being killed in the same day? Because that is what Netanyahu is saying they're achieving at this point.

MILLER: We don't want to see any civilian die, whether it being in Gaza or whether it be anyone else -- anywhere else. We mourn the loss of every civilian life.

The unfortunate truth however is that Hamas uses the civilians of Gaza as -- the civilians as human shields. They embed their infrastructure in schools, in hospitals, in residential apartment buildings, and so, it's very difficult for Israel to conduct this operation when Hamas is embedding itself inside the civilian population.

What they do is warn civilians to vacate areas before they conduct strikes, but we are in constant communication with them about how best they can do that and encouraging them to act within the laws of war. As the president has said, it's important that democracies follow -- it's important that democracies respect all human life. It's important that democracies follow the laws of war and follow international law.

That's what we expect Israel to do, and we'll continue to be in conversation with them about that.

HARLOW: Now, let me ask you about this brand-new reporting out of Qatar that the foreign minister and the prime minister of Qatar have just said that they are hopeful for a breakthrough soon on hostages.

Should American families waiting for hostages, Israeli families waiting for their loved ones also be more hopeful this morning?

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MILLER: I don't want to say more hopeful or less hopeful. I'll just say, reiterate what we said from the beginning, which it is one of our top priorities to try and get these hostages home. The secretary and president were involved in efforts to try -- to get the hostages released.

In the early aftermath of the October 7th attacks, the secretary had initial phone call with the prime minister of Qatar, and we, of course, traveled to the region. We had meetings with them where we talked about work to return these hostages. You've seen very initial efforts with two American citizens released and two Israeli citizens released over the weekend.

And so we are continuing to work with the government of Qatar. We are very appreciative of the efforts that they have made. It's been very important in the progress that we've had so far.

We know that there are still 10 Americans who remain unaccounted for, and we do know, unfortunately, that some of those are hostages -- as, of course, a number of other foreign nationals and ultimately hundreds of Israeli citizens.

So, we're going to continue to work -- to work on it, but one of the things I'll say is we have found that throughout talking about our work publicly, in such a sensitive, delicate area isn't actually helpful to our goal of trying to get these hostages released.

HARLOW: Matt, let me ask you about Americans that are stuck in Gaza, not hostages, but Americans stuck there. We heard from John Kirby at the White House yesterday, he said there's not a place in the world where the Pentagon doesn't have contingency plans on the shelf.

But I want you to listen to something that Sammy Nabulsi told us. He is a friend of a couple -- American couple stuck there with their one- year-old. Listen.

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SAMMY NABULSI, FRIENDS TRAPPED IN GAZA WITH THEIR 1-YEAR-OLD SON: In that statement by Secretary Blinken is one of two things, it's either not true or it's wordplay. So, physically at the crossing, there are no militants. There are no military or government personnel at all on the Palestinian side.

Abud (ph) sent me videos and pictures of him at the crossing, and literally, the only thing between him and Egypt is a series of gates that are just closed. There just isn't an agreement right now about aid coming in, and American citizens getting out.

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HARLOW: Has the administration seen evidence of Hamas blocking the border? And what is that plan that John Kirby talked about to get them home?

MILLER: Let me explain what's happening here because it is a very complicated situation. So, the Rafah border crossing, is similar to a lot of border crossings you may have been through in your life. There's an Egyptian side, the southern side of the crossing --

HARLOW: Yeah.

MILLER: -- and there's a Hamas -- a Gaza side on the -- on the Gaza side of the crossing. And there is a no man's land in between.

And so, the Egyptians are on their side ready, they say, to accept people -- foreign nationals, United States citizens if they can make it to Egyptian processing. On the other side, we have seen a couple things. At times, as in the clip you just showed, Hamas has had no one there manning the border station.

Remember that this is an area that is administered by Hamas. Hamas has been the government of Gaza for some time, and they before this conflict manned that border station. At other times, we have seen Hamas militants actively there, with guns, preventing people from approaching the crossing.

So there has been a problem in getting people through the Gaza side into the no man's land where they can ultimately get across to the Egyptian side to be processed to enter into Egypt.

It is an extremely difficult situation. We continue to work through it with the Egyptian government. We continue to work through it with the United Nations. We continue to work through it with the government of Israel.

Our ambassador, David Satterfield, our special envoy from the Middle East humanitarian issues, has been on the ground and I can tell you has been focused -- has been intensely focused on this and we hope to reach a solution.

HARLOW: Matt, also, I want to give you a chance to respond to an op- ed written yesterday. I know you saw it in "The Washington Post" by Josh Paul. He's a former colleague of yours that the State Department, who wrote about why he resigned.

And here's what he writes: The absence of a willingness to hold that debate when it comes to Israel is not proof of our commitment to Israel's security, rather it's proof of our commitment to a policy that the record shows is a dead end -- a proof of our willingness to abandon our values and turn a blind eye to the suffering of millions in Gaza, when it is politically expedient.

He says the State Department did not and would not engage in a substantive debate about whether to transfer arms to Israel after the attacks on October 7th.

What is the State Department response to that?

MILLER: Well, I couldn't disagree anymore. Just because anyone individual isn't involved in a debate that's happening inside the State Department, doesn't mean those conversations aren't going on. We, of course, have conversations about every arms transfer that we make. They are discussed both here at the State Department, and throughout the interagency, at the Defense Department, and the White House. And ultimately, we make the decisions that we think are best for the interest of our partners, our allies, and for the interest of the national security of the United States.

I will say that we have been focused on two things. Number one, making sure Israel has what it needs to defend itself. I think you always have to go back to the context of this, which is Israel suffered a deadly terrorist attack in which armed militants came into Israel, and killed civilians, women, children, elderly, took many of them hostage. And those terrorist attacks are ongoing.

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So, Israel has a right and an obligation to defend itself as any country would. At the same time, we continue to make very clear that we expect them to behave in the laws of war, and -- and this is the really important thing that I think sometimes gets lost in this debate -- it is the United States that has brokered the agreement to get humanitarian access into innocent civilians in Gaza. It is the United States that is working to set up areas inside Gaza where civilians can be safe from harm.

So, while, yes, we have -- we have focused on doing what -- doing what we need to do so Israel can defend itself, it is the work of our diplomats and others in the White House and others in the national security establishment who are working overtime to try and ensure that civilians are protected to the maximum extent possible.

HARLOW: Just to put a button on it, you're saying you had the debate internally, he just wasn't there for it?

MILLER: I'm not going to say -- I'm not going to be that specific other than to say --

HARLOW: Okay.

MILLER: -- as I said, generally, lots of times, you'll hear people say, oh, this conversation isn't going on.

I can assure you that we are discussing every one of these issues at senior levels and throughout the agency.

HARLOW: Matt Miller, with the State Department, appreciate the time very much. Thank you.

MILLER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, former Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, reportedly striking a deal with federal prosecutors. What ABC News says he's offering up about the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election in exchange for immunity.

And could the fourth time be the charm for House Republicans? Overnight, they picked another nominee. What you expect from the key vote just hours away, next.

We're also going to rejoin this hour with the top Democrat in the House, Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is here.

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MATTINGLY: We are learning this morning Donald Trump's former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, has been granted immunity by Special Counsel Jack Smith. That's according to an ABC News report that also says he's spoken to federal investigators at least three times this year. And ABC sources tell them, quote, Meadows informed Smith's team that he repeatedly told Trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voter fraud coming to them were baseless. That, of course, would contradict many things Meadows has said publicly, including in his book, which was first published in November 2021, a full year after the 2020 election.

CNN has reached out to Mark Meadows' attorney and has not heard back. For his part, Donald Trump is denying that Meadows told that allegations of significant voter fraud were baseless. Trump posting on Truth Social, quote, Mark Meadows never told me that allegations of significant fraud about the rigged election were baseless. He certainly didn't say that in his book.

Joining us now is Timothy Parlatore. He's Donald Trump's former attorney and currently represents former New York Police Commissioner Bernie Kerrik, who has been subpoenaed to testify in the Georgia election investigation. Tim, we appreciate your time.

To start with, there have been so many questions about where Mark Meadows is on all this. I haven't heard from him much publicly other than down in Georgia. Were you surprised about this reporting?

TIMOTHY PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR BERNIE KERIK: No, I wasn't really surprised about it. Mark Meadows, we had not really had much of any communications with him or his team. But if you go all the way back to March/April time frame of this year, you know, there was litigation over whether he could claim executive privilege and be prevented from testifying. And he was ordered by the judge to testify before the grand jury.

So, this immunity grant makes sense because when somebody in his position is then compelled under the executive privilege issue, they would naturally go before the grand jury, plead the Fifth and the prosecutor would say, hold on a minute, and they would run out and give them a grant of immunity, at which point they no longer have a Fifth Amendment right and they would -- they basically have to answer every question.

So, I think that that really -- based on the information that I know and the reading of that ABC article, this is something that happened back in April.

HARLOW: Yes. We don't have the timing on when this agreement was made. That's not in our reporting yet, but we'll see. What about the Georgia RICO case? What does it mean for Mark Meadows in that state case? Because this says his testimony can't be used in a federal prosecution, but what about state?

PARLATORE: Right. That is one of the unique things here, because you very rarely have dueling state and federal prosecutions. And so if things happened, as I just described it -- and, again, based on my experience. I don't know for a fact that that is how it went down. But when you have a witness who refuses to testify, you give him a grant of federal immunity, they testify, unless there is an issue of a parallel state case, which, back in April, Mark Meadows wasn't necessarily expecting.

And so I can predict what happened here is he was talking to Jack Smith's team, until, all of a sudden, Fani Willis decided to indict him. And, you know, then he starts pleading the Fifth again and shuts down.

And the timing of the ABC story to me is fascinating because just this past week is when Fani Willis has, all of a sudden, started opening things up for everybody to get misdemeanor and no jail pleas. So, I wouldn't be surprised if this is really just a setup for Mark Meadows to take a sweetheart deal in Georgia and maybe this article was even a message to Fani Willis of, hey, maybe instead of indicting him, you should have tried talking to him first. And maybe you want to step back from your position instead of, you know, continuing down this path.

MATTINGLY: What would a plea in Georgia mean for the other individuals indicted in that case?

PARLATORE: I think it won't necessarily mean, you know, too much. The more people that take pleas, they would be available to testify. It is not necessarily going to change what the information is. I think that it would probably help to streamline the case.

Obviously, the less defendants you have, the faster a trial will go. And so whereas the judge previously predicted that the trial may last eight months, that is based on a presumption that you have 15 lawyers are going to cross-examine every witness.

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And so the more you cut that down, the more it becomes a manageable trial that could potentially get pushed faster.

MATTINGLY: All right. Timothy Parlatore, we appreciate your time, as always, sir. Thank you.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

PARLATORE: Thank you.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Democracy is messy sometimes, but it is our system. This conference that you see, this House Republican majority, is united.

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MATTINGLY: That is Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson, who Republicans designated as speaker of the House late last night. He is the current vice chair of the Republican Conference. He's also a staunch Trump ally who voted not to certify the results of the 2020 election. And after Kevin McCarthy's ouster, he is now the fourth Republican nominee to be speaker in three week.

A couple questions that are still outstanding, Johnson was only nominated with 128 votes. He will need at least 217 to be speaker. We're going to see if Johnson can get the support he needs today, at least as it's scheduled at noon when the House plans to hold a future full floor vote.

Joining us is now is Republican Congressman from Tennessee Tim Burchett.

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He's one of eight Republican who voted to remove then-Speaker Kevin McCarthy from his post.

Congressman, it is Wednesday.