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CNN This Morning
Remembering the Victims in Maine; Rep. Chellie Pingree (D-ME) is Interviewed about Gun Laws; Pastor Todd Little is Interviewed about the Maine Shooting; Dean Phillips Launches Challenge to Biden. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired October 27, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:32:09]
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: For the closeknit town of Lewiston, Maine, it is reeling this morning after the deadliest mass shooting this year.
We're also learning the names of two more victims.
Bill Young and his 14-year-old son were both killed at the bowling alley, and a third, Michael Deslauriers II was also killed. His father said Michael and his friend were killed while attempting to charge at the shooter.
The gunman, who is still on the loose, opened fire at the bowling alley and a restaurant, killing 18 people Wednesday night.
Now we're learning new details about the beloved father, sons, friends and employes whose lives have been cut short.
CNN's Jason Carroll joins us now.
These are the hardest stories to tell, and yet the most important in all of this (ph).
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Absolutely.
You know, first and foremost, we want to point out the strength it takes to speak out about a loved one when you're mourning and you're in shock. But we are hearing their stories, hearing the stories of bravery and of sadness.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice over): The magnitude of what happened coming into focus as authorities remove the bodies of some of those who perished in the shooting at the Schemengees Bar and Grille restaurant. Police say of those who were killed, eight died at the bar, including Leroy Walker's son Joseph. His father says his son died when he tried to stop the shooter. LEROY WALKER, SON KILLED IN SHOOTING: My son actually - because he's
the manager of the bar and everything else, picked up a butcher knife and went after the gunman to try to stop him from killing other people. And that's what he - he shot my son to death, trying to save some more lives that he ended up losing his life.
CARROLL: Forty-year-old Bryan MacFarlane, also identified as one of the victims, his sister says he was deaf and was there for regular Wednesday night gathering of members of the deaf community and a corn hole tournament. His sister, who is also deaf, says his death is deeply felt for her family and the community.
KERI BROOKS, BROTHER KILLED IN SHOOTING (through translator): I want people to know how big this has impacted the deaf community that, you know, we've lost four community members, not only just Bryan, but we've lost three other friends as well from this tragic incident in this community. It's a huge loss.
CARROLL: Another tournament participant, 39-year-old Peyton Brewer- Ross was killed, his brother confirmed to CNN. He leaves behind a two- year-old daughter Elle.
Also killed, 42-year-old father of five, Arthur "Arty: Strout. His father confirmed his death, saying, they were together right before the attack.
ARTHUR BARNARD, SON KILLED IN SHOOTING: The crazy part is just being with him just before it happened, minutes. I mean ten minutes before it happened.
CARROLL: Minutes away from the bar, more victims and more tragedy. Police say seven were killed at Just-In-Time Recreation center, a bowling alley in Lewiston, including its manager, 34-year-old Tommy Conrad.
[06:35:02]
He is survived by his nine-year-old daughter.
Also killed, 53-year-old Tricia Asselin.
BOBBI NICHOLS, VICTIM'S SISTER: We were bowling, and we heard a big bang. And I wasn't sure what it was until I heard another shot. And we just kept running and running and running. And I kept asking, where is my sister? Where is my sister? Till like two hours later somebody came out and said that she called 911. And when she called 911 to save everybody, she lost her life because of it. My sister's a hero.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And a little bit more about the victim that you talked about just a short while ago, Michael Deslauriers II. His father says that his son and his best friend were killed at the bowling alley apparently while trying to protect their wives and young children who were there. He said, quote, "he wanted to make sure that their wives and several children were under cover when they charged the shooter. So, a lot of stories of bravery coming out about how many of these
victims actually tried to stop the shooter.
HARLOW: Yes.
MATTINGLY: Jason, thanks for telling those stories. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: Heroes for sure.
Thank you, Jason.
This mass shooting has torn apart a town and a state with some of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation. One that has often prided itself on a strong gun culture of gun rights while still being a very safe place to live. But as the editorial board for the "Portland Press Herald" writes, that illusion is now shattered. Quote, "gone is the idea that Maine is unusually safe or otherwise somehow immune from the rampant American disease that is gun violence and mass shooting. And even in our grief, we have to ask again, why we are not doing more to keep public places safe from senseless massacre."
With us now this morning, Democratic Congresswoman Chellie Pingree. She represents Maine's First District, which is just south of where the shootings happened.
Thank you for being with us this morning.
The tragedy is unbearable I know for all of you. As you think about Maine and the state you love and the people you represent, how do you move forward from this? What do you think needs change?
REP. CHELLIE PINGREE (D-ME): Well, thank you so much for telling this story and for talking about the wonderful people and the family members who have been lost. This is a terrible tragedy for our state. And, frankly, our state is still in fear and lockdown. Communities throughout the state are still worried about the shooter that's on the loose. As you heard, Lewiston is locked down. In my district yesterday, Portland Public Schools, schools on the mid-coast. You couldn't buy a cup of coffee on the commercial street in Portland because everybody was locked down. And today will be another day of fear and concern.
And, as you said, you know, we've thought of ourselves as immune, the safest state in the nation. It's almost hunting season in November and so many people own guns and use them safely. We always thought, oh, this just can't (ph) happen in our state. And - and here we are. It's a - it's bringing us face to face with reality.
HARLOW: Yes, it certainly is. I was struck also by the "Boston Globe" headline, "gun violence invades a state of grace," because that's one thing that just made Maine so unique.
I wonder what you make of your fellow Democrat in Congress, Jared Golden, saying this yesterday.
Let's play it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JARED GOLDEN (D-ME): I have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war, like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime. The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure, which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles, like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown of Lewiston, Maine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: What did you think when you heard that?
PINGREE: You know, honestly, I think that conversation is happening throughout Maine. And I commend my colleague for stepping forward and saying, now is the time.
As I said, we have a tradition of hunting culture in our state and a lot of gun ownership, but Jared Golden, our colleague in Congress, knows full well. He served in the military. He knows the difference between a military assault weapon designed to kill and something you take out to go hunting and get yourself a deer. So, it's a very, very different proposition.
It's always been the holy grail in Maine, oh, politicians can't talk about gun laws, it will upset everybody, whether you're in the Maine legislature, in Congress. I think our day has come. I think people - I already know people are turning to us and saying, what are you going to do about this? How do you make sure it never happens again?
HARLOW: And to that point about things that can be done, do you think that it is time for Maine to have a red flag law, not a yellow flag law? The yellow flag law makes it harder to take a gun away from someone who is not fit for one, but not as hard as red flags.
PINGREE: Well, absolutely. Sure. And I've always been a supporter of the red flag law. And I think there will be a discussion in the Maine legislature about whether to go further.
[06:40:04]
But that is only one piece of this puzzle, banning assault weapons, dealing with a massive amount of ammunition that a shooter like this had, gun registration - you know, there's so many pieces here, background checks, I think they all have to be discussed. And we all have to be aware that we cannot continue to go with the status quo that we have now. We - we have to take responsibility for the public policy that makes it easier to own a gun, to be in a situation like this and that no state is immune.
HARLOW: Congresswoman from Maine, Chellie Pingree, thank you so much for your time this morning.
PINGREE: Absolutely. Thank you.
HARLOW: Of course. MATTINGLY: Well, towns around Lewiston, Maine, are still under shelter in place orders as the manhunt intensifies for the suspect in the deadly Maine shootings. We're going to talk to a pastor in the community next.
And you're looking now at protests in Ramallah and the West Bank this morning. They come as Israel says its war with Hamas will be entering a new phase soon. We're on the ground in Tel Aviv. That's ahead.
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[06:45:10]
MATTINGLY: It has been almost exactly 36 hours since the first shots were fired in what became a shooting rampage that killed 18 people in Lewiston, Maine. The suspect is still on the loose. Our next guest says he was forced to shelter in place with a group of congregants gathered for a Bible study at a church just over a mile away from one of the crime scenes.
Joining us now is Pastor Todd Little of First United Pentecostal Church in Lewiston.
Pastor Little, we appreciate your time.
I want to start with the community, those that you were sheltering in place with. How are they right now?
PASTOR TODD LITTLE, FIRST UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH OF LEWISTON: They're - they're - they're fine. We've been in contact with them, talking with them on the phone, praying with them. It was actually a traumatic kind of experience and caught everyone off guard. But the church family seems to be doing fine right now.
MATTINGLY: It was - it was striking a contrast what Senator Susan Collins said yesterday in a press conference, calling this a dark day for Maine, which I think is - no one can disagree with. And also said, it's in dark moments where the church can really be a light in the community.
Do you feel like it will take time for that light to become clear, or do you feel like people are already trying to grasp that right now?
LITTLE: I feel like they're already trying to grasp for that. They want to grasp for that. Nobody wants to be in the dark. It's -- the biggest deal is - is catching this - this shooter and - and as soon as that happens, I'll be -- I believe we'll be able to begin healing.
MATTINGLY: You know, to that point, the personal connection of faith communities is so critical. People being locked down, the uncertainty, I think the anxiety of an ongoing manhunt, what - what has that been like?
LITTLE: It's been a challenge. It's triggered things in people that brings out fear and anxiety. And, you know, the longer this goes on, the more that people are dealing with that. And it's -- it's a challenge.
MATTINGLY: Do you think that in the -- my colleague, Poppy, was just reading from the -- a really poignant editorial from the "Press Herald." It said, "gone is the idea Maine is unusually safe or otherwise somehow immune from the rampant American disease that is gun violence and mass shooting." That sense of safety, which I think has been such -- so critical to the Maine ethos, does that ever return?
LITTLE: I think it can. I think it's going to be trepidation for a while and people are going to be just a little bit on edge.
MATTINGLY: Your community -
LITTLE: But - but Maine's a resilient state and our community is very resilient.
MATTINGLY: You know, last one, to that point, you know, every -- it's such a closeknit community. Everybody we've spoken to repeats that point over and over again with pride. Do you know folks directly impacted about -- from this? How are they doing?
LITTLE: You know, as well as can be. In a community this size, everybody is going to know somebody who knows - you know, who was affected by this. And - and surely there's a lot of grief. But, you know, it's in these times that - that as a faith community that we can share Jesus Christ and - and what he does to - to help bring peace in times like this.
MATTINGLY: Pastor Todd Little, our hearts and certainly our prayers are with you and the entire community. Thank you.
LITTLE: Thank you.
HARLOW: Powerful to hear from him this morning.
All right, President Biden now has another Democratic primary challenger. We'll tell you who it is and what this could do to the race for the White House.
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[06:53:21]
HARLOW: President Biden has a new challenger not from the Republican Party. Congressman Dean Phillips of Minnesota says he will be running against the president. He tells CBS News he'll launch his campaign today in New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you running for president?
REP. DEAN PHILLIPS (D-MN) AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am. I have to. I think President Biden has done a spectacular job for our country. But it's not about the past. This is an election about the future. I will not sit still. I will not be quiet in the face of numbers that
are so clearly saying that we're going to be facing an emergency next November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: With us now, CNN political commentator and Spectrum News political anchor, Errol Louis, as well as "Bloomberg's" Washington correspondent Annmarie Hordern.
It's great to have you guys at the table.
Errol, let me -- this is not new that Dean Phillips has been saying that. I admire what Biden has done. He's gone as far as saying he's saved the country from Trump, but he has consistently said, the numbers aren't there in the polling, the age is an issue. So, what do you make of him jumping in? What's it going to mean and do?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, first of all, that comment about the numbers is going to blow up in his face when we start looking at numbers that show overwhelmingly that people don't know who he is, what he stands for, or why they should vote for him. Numbers cut both ways. Fifty plus years in politics and in national leadership by Joe Biden counts for a lot. It does mean something and it will play out in the numbers.
The fact that he's polling, the fact that he's got this tough question about his age and whether or not people think that's disqualifying for the president, absolutely valid questions. Is he the right person, the right messenger to bring it forward, it's hard to see how.
MATTINGLY: You talk to White House folks, the campaign folks, on a regular basis.
[06:55:01]
Do they care? Are they concerned?
ANNMARIE HORDERN, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "BLOOMBERG": I mean they're just shrugging this off as, we don't care. It doesn't really matter. They will say - the other day Karine Jean-Pierre was asked about this. She said, well, we're glad to see that he supported President Biden almost 100 percent of the time. And if you look at his voting record, here's always been behind the president and the president's goals.
His issue really comes down to the president's age. "Bloomberg" and "Morning Consult" just ran a poll on the key swing states, which is really the only states you need to work on - like look at and actually care about.
MATTINGLY: Yes.
HORDERN: And Trump is leading in five of those seven states. And all of this has to do with the deficit on the economy, that there's a trust deficit with Biden. So, he comes out today. He's not just going to hit inflation and the economy, but he almost sounds like a Republican if you look at some of these excerpts. He's going to go hard on the White House when it comes to the southern border, as well as crime. So, he's going to make a lot of noise for them, but the majority of the Democratic Party is backing Biden.
HARLOW: What about this really powerful statement from the Democratic lawmaker in Maine, who was against an assault weapons ban and then there was a mass shooting in his state and listen to what he said now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JARED GOLDEN (D-ME): I have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war, like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime. The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure, which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles, like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown of Lewiston, Maine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: The fact that Jared Golden said it, you just said, remarkable.
HORDERN: Well, he voted against it. This was floating around the House. It actually passed the House, it had no chance in the Senate, last summer, in July. And he was one of five Democrats that voted against it. He has this centrist district and he's coming out and he's talking about humility in times of crisis like this.
So, it's pretty remarkable. But will it change things in Congress, even if this one congressman from Maine saying it is time to ban these assault rifles. I was against it. Now I'm for it. It's - it's -
HARLOW: You think he's on an island?
HORDERN: He's - he's - no, he's not on an island when it comes to the Democratic Party, but a divided -
HARLOW: Switching -- changing his mind.
HORDERN: Yes, changing his mind. But the fact of the matter is, the Democrats no longer have control of the House. It's a very slim majority for Republicans. Potentially it's going to get slimmer if you look at what's going on with Mr. Santos of Long Island. But there's no chance there's going to be an assault rifle ban, weapons ban. But potentially there could be some measures.
Last summer, after Uvalde, after Buffalo, these horrible massacres, they did move for gun safety legislation, like expanding background checks, grants for red flag laws in some states and mental health. And maybe there's a package on mental health because the new speaker alluded to that last night in his interview with Sean Hannity.
MATTINGLY: Yes, he mentioned that it - go ahead.
LOUIS: No, I was going to say, the changes are coming from the bottom up. I mean if you're looking for congressional action, you won't see it in the short-term. But all of the signs are there. I mean when Democrats, you know, flip control of the Minnesota legislature and the Michigan legislature, you know, Moms Demand Action, they were right there in the thick of it. Students Demand Action. You know, Every Town for Gun Safety.
HARLOW: Yes.
LOUIS: You know, March for Our Lives. There's been this wave of activism that has been bubbling up and it is changing minds. I mean that statement is remarkable because this is what a change in the national consensus looks like. One legislator at a time.
HARLOW: Yes.
LOUIS: One law at a time. One local election at a time.
HARLOW: There's no, quick , that even if Maine were to pass an assault weapons ban, it would likely get struck down, just like we saw the federal judge do in California. That's the reality of this time with this court decision on guns is just, even if states change laws, are they going to - are they going to hold?
MATTINGLY: Yes.
You mentioned the interview with Mike Johnson, the new speaker of the House, which was really informative for a lot of people who don't know him that well, including a lot of his Republican colleagues to some degree.
HORDERN: Twenty-five minutes.
MATTINGLY: He was asked though -- and there's a lot to dig into, and we'll definitely talk about it on the show, but he was also asked about an investigation that K-File - CNN's K-File had which revealed editorials written by Johnson in the early 2000s, only about 10 years before the Supreme Court's Obergefell decision, which includes - he called homosexuality, "inherently unnatural and a dangerous lifestyle. This is a free country, but we don't give special protections for every person's bizarre choices." He also said it - "homosexual marriage is a dark harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy that could doom even the strongest republic."
He was asked about it. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I don't even remember some of them. I was a litigator that was called upon to defend the state marriage amendments. If you remember back in the early 2000s. I think there was over 35 states, somewhere in that number, that - that the people went to the ballot in their respective states and they amended their state constitutions to say marriage is one man, one woman. Well, I was a religious liberty defense lawyer and I was called to go in and defend those cases in the court.
When the Supreme Court issued the Obergefell opinion, that became the law of the land, OK. I respect the rule of law, but I also genuinely love all people, regardless of their lifestyle choices. This is not about the people themselves. I - I am a Bible-believing Cristian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:00:00]
MATTINGLY: What did you make of the response?
HORDERN: Well, so he's going to have, I think, a little bit of trouble with some of these 18 Republicans that are in Biden-led districts because of his remarks
