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Law Enforcement Officials Still Searching for Suspected Gunman Who Killed 18 in Mass Shooting in Lewiston, Maine; Law Enforcement Officials Searching for Suspected Gunman in Radius Around Lewiston, Maine; IDF Conducts 2nd Night of "Targeted Raids" Inside Gaza, U.S. Strikes Two Facilities Linked to Iranian-Backed Militias in Syria, Maine Congressman Flips Stance on Assault Weapons Ban. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 27, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: on the ground.

RUBY CHEN, FATHER OF MISSING IDF SOLDIER AND HAMAS HOSTAGE ITAY CHEN: That's a little bit of delay. I'm a businessman. I do lemonades for a living, not just acquisitions. I own the stand. We have families. We don't and shouldn't be in those types of discussions. We just need to have faith that the policy officials that we are meeting, from Senator Schumer, Senator Rosen, many other senators that we have met from Florida, North Carolina, congressmen, Michigan, New York, and others, they understand the urgency. And they, hopefully, will push to get the hostages home as soon as possible.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Ruby Chen, we appreciate your time and for sharing your story, and the patience and urgency that is needed at this point in time. Please keep us posted with anything else we can do to help.

CHEN: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: CNN THIS MORNING continues now.

MATTINGLY: Good morning. I'm Phil Mattingly with Poppy Harlow in New York. This morning the urgent manhunt continues for a mass shooter in Maine nearly 37 hours after a shooting rampage had left 18 people dead at a bowling alley and bar and grille. At least 80 FBI agents have joined the hunt for the suspect, Robert Card, a U.S. Army reservist who is considered armed and dangerous. The Coast Guard is helping search by air and sea after Card's car was found at a boat lunch. The suspect owns a small powerboat according to public records.

HARLOW: So last night we saw SWAT teams with armored trucks converge on Card's last known address. Police say they will be back in that area today. They spotlighted the house. They got on a bullhorn to say come out with your hands up, but nobody was inside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, we do not want to hurt anyone inside. We need you to come out. Walk to the front of the truck in the driveway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: As for the motive, there is a key theory emerging. Law enforcement sources tell CNN the suspect recently broke up with his girlfriend and that they used to frequent the bowling alley and the bar and grille where the shootings happened. His ex-girlfriend was apparently signed up to play in a tournament at the bar the same night of the shooting.

MATTINGLY: And this morning we are learning the name of more victims. "Reuters" reports a father and his 14-year-old son, Bill and Aaron Young, were killed at the bowling alley. And Michael Delaurier was also killed there. His father says his son died charging at the gunman. Joseph Walker was the manager at Schemengees Bar and Grille. His father says he died a hero trying to stop the gunman with a knife. Just moments ago his father told us why he can't hate the gunman who killed his son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEROY WALKER, SR., SON JOEY KILLED IN MAINE SHOOTING RAMPAGE: You have to let the law do whatever needs to be done. If this person was at the time in his right mind, I believe he would have been a loving person just like we are. There is something that went wrong, and I just can't hate him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Remarkable, Despite so much hate in the world. John Berman is live in Lewiston this morning. John, well, that father's grief, I think it touches everyone. This is a community trying to grieve, trying to come together, right, John, and they can't because of the manhunt being ongoing.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Poppy, that was a heartbreaking interview to hear from Leroy Walker talking about his son. So much loss in this community. And as you said, it's hard to grieve right now because of the situation at hand, which is this active manhunt. And I can tell you one thing that just happened here at Schemengees bar, they just dropped off portable toilets in front of the bar. And I know that seems like a small thing, but what that tells you is that they expect this to be an active crime scene that they are going to have to be processing for some time. They are going to be there, law enforcement will be at that bar for a while. That's where eight of the 18 people were killed.

And this morning this community, the second most populous city in Maine, some 40,000 people in the wider area here, they are still under a shelter-in-place order. Secure your home, secure your cars is what authorities are telling people here. Local sporting events, high school sporting events, football games, Friday night football games have been canceled. Volleyball playoffs have been canceled. And that's throughout the state because there is just so much concern of what might happen with this manhunt. Again, the search very much continues this morning after a great deal

of activity not here in Lewiston, but about 15 minutes east of here in two towns, Bowdoin, which was the last known residence of Robert Card, the suspect, and also Lisbon, which is where the suspect's car was found near that boat launch.

[08:05:00]

I want to go now to Lisbon, that's where CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has been for much of the last 24 hours, Shimon, trying to follow this manhunt as it moves about these towns. What are you seeing this morning, Shimon?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, look, we are not seeing much this morning, John. Certainly different from what we saw yesterday morning when we got here and police, the local police here, Lisbon police, were out searching. We were with them when they were doing some of the searches. Streets were closed. There were roadblocks. We are not seeing any of that today. So it's not entirely clear us to and we are trying to figure out what's going on here today. But we are not seeing the SWAT teams that were at the high school, at the staging area. We are not seeing that today.

So we don't know if the search area has shifted to some other town or are they planning to do stuff later today that we just don't know about. But you can sort of sense here being in Lisbon that people want to try to get back to life. Much of the stores and the locations on our way here today were still closed. We will see as the day goes on what's going on. But we are not seeing activity out here this morning. Perhaps that will change later today. So we're trying to get a sense of what's going on. Officials have not been talking about the search. Yesterday they didn't answer any questions about the manhunt. And just by what we saw last night at his home, it's very clear at least to this point as far as we know, they really have no idea where he is.

And so let's see what happens today, I guess, and perhaps maybe we will get an update later today. But so far pits been pretty difficult to get updates on any of the searching here or any information from officials here.

BERMAN: Yes, Shimon, you bring up a great point, which is that the last time that people in this greater area heard from law enforcement was really yesterday late morning. It's been since then. And, yes, they've received alerts that the shelter-in-place orders are extended. Bates College, a terrifically run college in Lewiston here, this morning they sent out an alert saying, hey, you still have to shelter in place today. The students have been told they can go to the dining hall once today to pick up food if they need to, but please stay inside if they can. But people don't really know where this search stands. Do you expect to hear more from law enforcement today?

PROKUPECZ: Hard to say. Yesterday when they spoke, they took just a couple of questions. And look, we understand that there is an investigation. There is potentially a prosecution if he is captured alive. We get that, right? But I think the fact that we are not getting these updates, we've seen in other searches like in Pennsylvania where the police are out every day giving updates on the searches, what they are doing, what they are doing sort of to give the sense that, look, we have this under control. We are informing you, we are informing the community about what we are doing.

We are not seeing any of that here, right. They send out these alerts, shelter in place, it affects people's lives, obviously, businesses. Everyone wants to be safe. Everyone wants to make sure they are not going to get hurt. We totally get that. But we just have not seen the updates from officials. And the fact that we are out here today again, and we are not seeing that level of activity. It's a big area to search. We get it. Maybe they are searching somewhere that's not here. But right now we are just not seeing that level of activity certainly that we saw yesterday.

BERMAN: No, not here either, Shimon. And I should note that earlier I thought I saw a helicopter. I did not. In fact, there have been no helicopters in the sky over us in Lewiston today as far as I can tell, which would be a change from yesterday. Yesterday at this time there was a search from the air. It doesn't appear to be happening, at least not yet. All right, Shimon Prokupecz in Lisbon where the search had been taking place. We will get much more from you soon. Phil, Poppy, let's go back to you.

HARLOW: John, thank you. Shimon, thank you. We will get back to both of you.

MATTINGLY: Joining us now to talk about some of the unanswered questions, and there are a lot about this ongoing search, is CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. We were asking you a lot of questions during Shimon's live shot about why there's a lack of information or what the actual strategy is here. But I want to start with some of the key outstanding issues. Number one, was there another car? We know they found one car down near the boat dock. Was there another form of transportation here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So he doesn't have another car registered to him. But yesterday, the was there another car question was important. Today it goes from important to very important because we are hitting that 48-hour mark in the next few hours, and this morning's team meeting at that command center is basically going to be about a reset, which is we did all the things you should do immediately in a tight search grid and we've done some things beyond that. Now let's go full stop.

[08:10:00]

What are the loose ends we still have to cover? And now let's plan forward. How do we extend this search out? And how big is that grid? Because the point you raise, is there another car? Did he hop a train? Has he changed his appearance? Is there a phase two to this plan, are all things that are in the unknown category, would have to be built into the search.

HARLOW: What about a boat?

MILLER: So he doesn't have a boat registered to him that we could find, which in a community like that does not mean he doesn't have access to a boat. All kinds of people share boats. But he does have a jet ski registered, and that has certain meaning. If you preplaced that, for instance, at that boat launch, dumped the car, taken the jet ski, and we have seen from the way those rivers wind and go in different directions that, could have been an alternate getaway to the other side of the river to a stash car or a switch car. These are all the things that they are talking about.

MATTINGLY: Canada? If he is on the run, particularly if he is as mobile with vehicles, how do the Canadian authorities play into this? Is there any sense he could be headed up there?

MILLER: Before the Canadians play into this, U.S. Customs and Border Protection played into it almost immediately. That night his picture was pushed up the CBP on the Canadian border, and they were told at all border crossings, you know, we are looking for this guy. And the patrols at the places that aren't border crossings where people can cross or do cross, they have been looking for him, too. The Canadian authorities are aware of it, but the Canada thing is a little tricky to me because what do you get by getting away to Canada? They are watching the same news we are. They know the same face we do. We have an extradition treaty that's very solid. But it's -- we can't -- we can't mirror image rational thinking to an irrational thinker.

HARLOW: How carefully, from what you have seen, did he plan this?

MILLER: So we don't know that. We do know that there is a model, which is, according to FBI studies, the average active shooter, if you can say such a thing, plans for three-and-a-half weeks before the incident. There are people who already have a large collection of guns and a gripe that comes over the top that can take that down to 48 hours. And there are people who do it for months. But what they have not found in the searches is that document that was the list of things to get, the list of potential targets.

HARLOW: You had said his social media yesterday was pretty normal?

MILLER: Yes, and his conversations were normal. But more important than that, the people around him outside of the last few months say day to day he was a normal guy. Clearly, over the summer -- and we have to separate this. It's actually an important distinction because there are a lot of people who cringe in this discussion. The active shooter does not equate to mental illness. In most cases, 75 percent, there is no pre-diagnosed mental illness in the active shooter. It does equate, though, in a large number of cases, to mental health issues -- paranoia, anxiety, depression, anger, that come up and lead to the incident, that are unaddressed.

HARLOW: John, I want to ask you, our colleague, our great colleague Evan Perez just confirmed that investigators recovered a cellphone that belonged to the suspect, that's according to a law enforcement official. Does that add challenges? They wanted to be able to track cellphones, they wanted to be able to track signals. What does that bring both in challenges and perhaps what they can glean from that phone? MATTINGLY: Well, it tells us that the suspect, and probably with his

military background, discarded that for a reason, which is he didn't want that sending a signal. It leaves open the question if there was a plan and how detailed it was, has that been replaced by a burner that nobody knows about, which is both something to his advantage, but also a potential opportunity to law enforcement if they can figure that out.

HARLOW: All right. Thank you. So many --

MATTINGLY: As always.

HARLOW: -- questions.

Ahead, we have more on the challenges, we were just talking about them, that law enforcement officers are facing in this continuing massive urgent manhunt for the gunman who killed 18 people in Maine.

MATTINGLY: And moment ago, rockets fired towards Tel Aviv. Our crews on ground there just saw some of the explosions. We are going to go there live next.

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[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome back, just moments ago, rockets fired into Tel Aviv, Israel, striking a building. We've learned it has injured two people and this comes after a second night in a row where Israel Defense Forces have conducted targeted raids inside of Gaza.

Let's go straight to our colleague, Erin Burnett. She joins us live from Tel Aviv, talk about what you just saw happen, if you could, Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Poppy, of course, here sometimes you get a very close time. Sirens come, the warnings come, and then within 30 seconds to a minute, the actual strikes. So obviously, as we've talked about, different than Ukraine.

So here you literally hear the warning, and then you actually see the rocket come in and you see it hit a building. And we saw that there were about eleven or twelve in a couple of different series of sirens here this morning. One of them we did see hit a building not too far away, an apartment building, we understand about four stories.

Israeli officials are now saying that there were three people injured, moderate injuries, mild to moderate, one of them a 20-year-old man. But again, just the randomness of what happens here, it was that immediate billowing of smoke. It looked like that was actually a rocket that had broken through the Iron Dome as opposed to just a piece of shrapnel.

That's what it appeared to be from the best that we could ascertain from this distance, but we could see that. And of course, we can hear the thuds from Gaza as those strikes continue. There were, again, about 300 of them overnight as Israeli forces continued both the air assault as well as an assault by sea.

Special Forces assault by sea and by land. They have done that now two nights in a row, where they have gone into Gaza a kilometer or two with a significant land incursion. And then after finishing operations, strikes against, they say, individual operatives and command centers coming back out of Gaza.

HARLOW: Okay, Erin Burnett, live in Tel Aviv. We'll get back to you very soon, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, the U.S. Is unleashing new air strikes on two facilities linked to Iranian-backed militias in eastern Syria. F-16 fighter jets use precision-guided munitions to target a weapons and ammunition storage facility.

This, of course, comes after a series of drone and rocket attacks against the U.S. Forces in the region. Let's bring in CNN National Security Reporter Natasha Bertrand. Natasha, U.S. Officials trying to it clear that these are narrowly tailored, that they are in self- defense, but they targeted places where IRGC officials actually were correct.

[08:20:00]

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: That's right, Phil. So, a senior defense official told us last night that those facilities were occupied throughout the day by IRGC personnel and other personnel affiliated with those militia groups that Iran backs.

However, it is unclear at this point just how mini or if there were any casualties as a result of this strike. It targeted a weapons and ammunition depot in eastern Syria. However, the senior defense official did seem confident that there were no civilian casualties at this point.

But, look, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said in his statement that these are very narrowly tailored strikes and that it has nothing to do with the broader Israel-Hamas war that is happening right now.

This is what he said, "These narrowly tailored strikes in self-defense were intended solely to protect and defend U.S. Personnel in Iraq and Syria. They are separate and distinct from the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas and do not constitute a shift in our approach to the Israel-Hamas conflict."

But look, these strikes do not come in a vacuum. They are, of course, a response to the more than 19 attacks that these Iran-backed militias have waged against U.S. And coalition bases in the region in Iraq and Syria since October 17.

According to the Pentagon, there have been 21 U.S. Service members who have suffered casualties, who have suffered injuries as a result of these attacks, including traumatic brain injuries. So, the U.S. taking this very seriously, and this is meant to send a

very clear message to the Iran-backed militias that these kinds of drone attacks, rocket attacks on these bases, of course, will not be passively, kind of accepted by the United States, Phil.

MATTINGLY: We'll see if that message is heated. Natasha Bertrand. Great reporting, thank you.

HARLOW: All right, take a look at this video. It was released by U.S. Defense Officials, and what you're seeing is a Chinese fighter coming unbelievably close, actually, within 10ft of a U.S. B52 bomber that was flying over the South China Sea on Tuesday.

MATTINGLY: Ten feet, that is quite literally the distance between Poppy and me right now. That's the size of your standard ladder, the size of your standard basketball hoop. And officials say this is happening more and more often, to put this into perspective, the military considers intercepts like this to be dangerous within 50 to 100 feet of a U.S. Aircraft.

So, 10 feet is way too close for comfort.

HARLOW: America is grappling with yet another mass shooting and the rise of antisemitism. Next, we will be joined by a rabbi who survived the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh. He is here with his perspective on both.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JARED GOLDEN, DEMOCRAT CONGRESSMAN OF MAINE: I have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime. I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: There's Democratic Congressman Jared Golden of Maine reversing his long-held stance against a federal assault weapon ban after the shooting that left 18 people dead and 13 injured in his hometown of Lewiston. Now, Golden was one of only five Democrats to oppose a federal ban last July when it passed the House.

Of course, it then died in the Senate. Joining us now to discuss CNN Political Analyst Natasha Alford, as well as CNN Political Commentator Alyssa Farah Griffin. Natasha, I was talking about this last night with the team, putting this into perspective.

Jared Golden is somebody who is a frontline Democratic member, doesn't really ever listen to what Democratic leadership says, does his own thing, which is in part, why he continues to get reelected, but can often be frustrating to kind of mainstream Democrats.

That's a big deal, even if it doesn't mean that it's a kind of sea change for everyone.

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I mean, I think it shows the power of when pain hits your constituency, right? And so, it's one thing to talk about theoretically protecting the Second Amendment. It's a different thing when you have to look at those families in the eye and say that it was my stance, my legislative stance that kept change from happening.

So, it may not be a sea change, but I think it's an excellent example of having the moral courage to say I was wrong and that we can do something differently, which is very different from Mike Johnson, who's saying thoughts and prayers. It's going to be faith that changes this nation, it could be faith and legislation that makes a difference.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Keep in mind, the politics of this were fairly bold of him. He sits in a district that was an R-Plus Five district. It's the only district that Donald Trump carried in New England. And it's a very pro-Second Amendment area, this kind of more rural part of Maine in New England.

So, it is a bold step for him to come out and support this. I do believe it's still dead on arrival in the Senate. But what's interesting is Chris Murphy, a Democratic Senator who's long been a gun reform champion, has suggested since Sandy Hook, he suggested something that I could see getting a little bit of steam, which is basically stricter background checks for assault weapons.

That's something that's a step away from a full-on ban, which is dead on arrival with any Republicans.

HARLOW: I was going to say let's listen to Senator Susan Collins of Maine, when she was asked about this yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN COLLINS, REPUBLICAN SENATOR OF MAINE: I think it is more important that we ban very high-capacity magazines. There's always more that we can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: She was being asked about an assault weapon ban and what she thought. She focused on high-capacity magazines but also said there's always more we can do. But I mean, Republicans have been pretty clear, most of them, they're not going to go further than the bipartisan bill that was passed last year on guns.

ALFORD: Yeah, and even that, that was breaking 30 years of gridlock. Right, 30 years, that's a lifetime of no significant legislation that made a difference. But I do think it's important to listen to those places where politicians are willing to compromise. Right, so, if not a ban, let's think about why we're giving everyday

Americans so much ammunition. Why would you need those things? When you look at the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, there is an investment in mental health, which is what Republicans tend to lean towards as the solution, as opposed to Democrats who want to focus on gun control.

But there's also a focus on closing certain loops in background checks. So, I think that if you dig into that bipartisan act, there may be places to move the ball a little bit forward with both parties.

[08:30:00]