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Army Spokesman: Israel Ground Forces Inside Gaza; Heavy Artillery Strikes On Gaza Continue Saturday Morning; Aid Agencies Reports Losing Contact with Their Teams; House Democrat Dean Phillips. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired October 28, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:01:04]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Morning. Welcome to CNN this morning. I'm Victor Blackwell.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Amara Walker. Israel's army appears to be entering a new phase of war and army spokesperson from the IDF confirmed to CNN that IDF ground forces are in Gaza right now. Infantry, artillery, and other units moved into Gaza from the north overnight.

BLACKWELL: And as its troops march in the north, Israel continues to fire missiles across the border. The IDF have been launching heavy and continuous airstrikes throughout the night into the morning. IDF reserve soldiers are calling it the most intense night of bombing of the conflict so far.

CNN's Jim Sciutto is with us now from Northern Israel. So Israel promised a major ground offensive after the attacks by Hamas on October 7. Is it clear yet that this is the beginning of that that we are seeing that that ground incursion in a major way? Or is this potentially something else?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Victor, it's the beginning of something that's no question because Israel is now confirming the IDF spokesperson confirming that Israeli ground forces are inside Gaza, and operating at that those ground forces include infantry, armor engineering units, as well. And this, of course, follows what we were witnessing last night, our teams on the border, including Robertson we're witnessing last night, which is a vastly expanded air campaign that includes airstrikes from -- from war planes, as well as artillery fire and other strikes on targets. They're in advance of this ground operation.

So a bigger ground operation. And we'd seen previously since October 7, the open questions remain Victor and Amara, how big exactly, and the duration of this ground operation? And what the objective is. We've heard the objective described as eliminating Hamas, but -- but how to define victory or the accomplishment of the objective. And that that remains like -- like the other questions, an open question. WALKER: And obviously the other open question is, you know, could this expand into a wider conflict? I wanted to ask you more about what's happening along the Israeli-Lebanese border because the IDF and Hezbollah continue to exchange fire. And we're also hearing that Israel used a drone to strike a terrorist cell. What are you learning about that?

SCIUTTO: So since we've been up here, the last several days, this has been a daily event. Hezbollah firing in this direction. Israeli forces firing back. Hezbollah using a range of weapons to do so. It's sniper fires of small arms, fire, anti-tank, rockets and missiles, and also Surface-to-air or surface-to-surface missiles, I should say. And Israeli forces firing back. And in the last 24 hours, at least twice, Israel has carried out strikes on Lebanese territory against Hezbollah targets, that has maintained a relatively controlled pace. It hasn't reached a fever pitch in recent days. But the concern, of course, is that it will expand that Hezbollah will show its power against Israel, particularly the concern has been in response to an expanded ground operation in Gaza.

But we haven't yet seen an enormous escalation in Hezbollah activity. Or Nic Robertson, of course, he is down on the border with Gaza, in Ashkelon, and has been there really since the beginning. And Nic, I wonder, and again, we should always acknowledge that our vision into Gaza is limited and our sense of the degree and scope of Israeli operations is largely limited to what the IDF is telling us. But from your perspective there. Is this the large-scale ground offensive that we've been anticipating or is it possible it's something more limited?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Jim, we're just about a mile from the border fence here in storage. This is the place where I've been for all three weeks now almost. So we have a good vantage point here to compare and contrast with what we've seen and heard over recent weeks.

[08:05:08]

Absolutely last night there was a lot more artillery fire, a lot more bombardment going into Gaza and taking that into connection with what the IDF is saying about an incursion the night before that and the what an incursion on the night before that limited ones and that that being the increase. I think we can put this picture together along with the fact that the tel telecom service inside Gaza was partly destroyed last night, the fact that electricity was cut into areas of Gaza last night, a lot of it left in darkness, the intensity of that fire, just speak towards a growing level of ground incursion activity.

Again, as you rightly say, we don't know the precise nature until the IDF brief about it with some specificity. But I think what we're seeing today further emphasizes that this broadening scope and deepening nature of the incursion is underway. Why do I say that? Because the day we've heard a lot of artillery strikes, and I'm going to step out of the way just now, and John's just going to zoom in on small hilltop here. You don't see any smoke rising from it now but about five minutes ago, there was a lot of smoke rising from that tiny hilltop in the fields there on the just right by the border to Gaza. And then Jim, if you can go across the hillside there you can see smoke rising again from this field area.

Now this is different to what we were seeing from this position over the past couple of weeks. We were seeing airstrikes and artillery strikes that were going into the towns of Beit Hanoun is one of the towns behind us. The strikes, we're going into those towns. Now they're hitting tiny hilltop positions in the fields. We're hearing small and heavy machine gunfire coming from those fields and other fields in this area.

So when you see the artillery taking out targets on these small hilltops, you can understand those are likely be Hamas or potentially Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad positions fighting positions on a hilltop set a ground incursion, if it were happening, would necessarily want to knock out to allow the ground troops to move through that area more safely with with greater ease. So the picture that unfolds here, the type of artillery strikes, what is being hit today, that level of small arms and heavy machine gunfire, in contrast to what we've heard over recent weeks, it tends to paint that picture of this growing expanding ground incursion that the IDF spokespeople are talking about. But again, to your point, precisely what they're achieving at the moment, and how many troops are in there, we cannot speak to that at the moment, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. limited view of those ground operations that of course, we should acknowledge as well, no vision into what is essentially an underground city, a network of tunnels built by her master as defensive positions. And that's certainly a concern of those Israeli forces. It's why they have engineers with them to help bridge some of those defenses. Our Nic Robertson there in Surat, in southern Israel, very close to the Gaza border. Victor, and Amara, we'll continue to watch those events, both on the southern border and up here on the northern border as well.

BLACKWELL: All right, Jim, we'll check back. Thank you. The White House says that the President is not drawing any red lines for Israel's ground operation into Gaza,

WALKER: But the increase in airstrikes is complicating the White House's efforts to ensure that humanitarian aid enters Gaza and the ongoing negotiations to get the hostages held by Hamas freed. We're joined now by CNN is Kevin Liptak in Wilmington, Delaware. Kevin, I mean this is obviously a very delicate and difficult situation for the White House. How is it responding thus far?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, they're being very careful very deliberate in how they're talking about this. They're not even saying whether they got a heads-up from Israel that this was going to expand. Uh, but we can say that this is complicating their objectives on the ground, their chief among them. The release of those hostages that are being held by Hamas, including potentially Americans, there are 10 Americans who are unaccounted for some of them may be held hostage. And really, as early as yesterday, we did hear that these negotiations to release these hostages had been intensifying, brokered, and part by the Qatari Government. Really, the hope had been that there would be a large number of hostages released. And remember guys, the U.S. government had been encouraging Israel to

delay its full-scale ground invasion, as those negotiations progressed in the hopes that a breakthrough could be reached. But really this will complicate it deeply. And what you've been hearing from the White House and from President Biden much more vocally over the last two several days is talk of a humanitarian pause. Some break in the fighting in the violence that would allow these hostages to be released because certainly logistically, it would be very complicated to release a large number of people if Gaza is being bombed by the Israelis.

[08:10:18]

We did hear from John Kirby yesterday that there are active conversations about a humanitarian pause with the Israeli government. And certainly, the U.S. is not giving up on these negotiations to release these hostages. I was told last night by an official that these are hour-by-hour talks, certainly very complicated and very complex negotiations with Hamas to get those hostages out.

Now, the other thing that a humanitarian pause could allow for is for more aid to go into Gaza. That has been a priority of the Biden administration, and also allow civilians to leave including hundreds of Americans, many Palestinian Americans, we want to get out so certainly this complicating all of those factors today, guys.

WALKER: Sure. Kevin Liptak, thank you. We're joined now by CNN military analyst and former commanding general of the U.S. Army, Europe, and Seventh Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. General, good to see you this morning.

Let's start with the IDF of ground forces that are inside Gaza right now. We understand that they entered overnight from the north and the forces are in the field right now fighting that is according to an IDF spokesperson. It was first described as to targeted raids general. Is this the beginning or part of Israel's major ground invasion that they've been promising?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, good morning Amara. First of all, I'd like to comment on but what what both Jim and Nic said, because they're being hesitant. Yes, there is an increase in operational tempo of the Israeli ground forces. This does not mean that this is the ground assault the ground incursion. I would agree that there's potential for different kinds of actions. What I see in the films and the folks I've talked to, who are -- who are involved in this, they're saying not yet. This is -- this is the initial limited incursion to gain more intelligence.

We're seeing a lot of tanks and infantry carriers and bulldozers. But that's not all we're seeing. For those of us experienced with this, there's a lot more going on. There's intelligence analysis of what is happening on the other side of the border. There are special operators more than likely, with this force going in. They are preparing for additional assaults. They have joint tactical air controllers on the ground that can they can direct it, the air platforms. There will eventually be helicopters. So this is a combined arms fight. But I would suggest we're still in

the opening phases where Israel is gathering intelligence and in fact, probably sending a message to Hamas, saying this is about what you're going to get and you're going to get a lot more of it unless you release the hostages and do some other things that we've been asking you to do.

WALKER: Got it. Thanks for clarifying. So you believe that this is just part of laying the groundwork and gathering intelligence before this major ground invasion begins. What about these two targeted raids that the IDF mentioned? Do you believe that that was aimed at trying to specifically rescue some of those hostages?

HERTLING: Yes. It could be either that or again, gathering more intelligence, that the key issue for the Israeli army right now is to find out where the terrorists are, what to strike. And when you send a force in for these kinds of raids, or these, what we call reconnaissance in force, it's to either confirm or deny the intelligence you already have. Is what we think there or is it not? And should we continue to put energy and resources into a location to strike to try and strike it? Because that's where we believe the enemy is?

WALKER: And what about this communications blackout? You know, we're hearing from you know, many international organizations and advocacy groups, including the Committee to Protect Journalists, the WHO, medicines on frontier, which is Doctors Without Borders. You know, they're obviously alarmed that they can't get in touch with their medical staff or your their employees and the obviously need some critical information about what's happening there on the ground. Is this standard operating procedure before an invasion is supposed to take place?

LIPTAK: Well, it is but it's also specifically geared toward this fight because what Israel wants to do is, first of all, cut off communication from Hamas above ground, not within the tunnels because they don't have that kind of connectivity inside the tunnels themselves. But above ground. It's not only for the enemy, but truthfully, Amara, I'm going to say it for the first time. It's also to reduce the inflammation operations of different facilities within Gaza, showing films of the civilian casualties, showing injuries from local Palestinians, showing buildings being hit, because that is one of Hamas's weapon to play the victim doctrine that they use so effectively showing how the the local populace is being harmed.

So when Israel shuts off all the telecommunication, we're not talking to the doctors in charge of the hospitals. We're not talking to local newsmen, news people inside of the strip. So all of that contributes to camping down the information ops that Hamas always uses or any terrorist group uses.

[08:15:17]

WALKER: And I did mention the Committee to Protect Journalists and they did mention that at least 29 journalists have lost their lives since this conflict began on October 7. They say it's the deadliest period for journalists since they've been covering conflict since 1992. I understand that Reuters and John's Franz press reached out to the IDF this week to get some kind of assurance, you know that journalists on the ground would not -- not be targeted, or they would make efforts to -- to limit casualties of journalists. The IDF told the organizations that they cannot guarantee the safety of journalists who are reporting in Gaza. I'm bringing you this question because I know that you have had journalists embedded with you in war zones. Can you talk about this and -- and Israel's response? What is your reaction?

HERTLING: Well, it is the responsibility of the organization that has the journalists with them to protect them, as you know, because it because you've had folks with me when I was in combat. So it was my job to perfect them. But if you put a journalist in a situation where they're going to be part of a force, and there is the potential for striking that force by the opposing force, in this case, Israel than it is on the current, the commander on the scene. So Israel certainly will always attempt to use the law of land warfare. They also have a doctrine they call proportionality and necessity.

If they have a target that they think is necessary to strike, they will consider what's around it and then determine the proportionality of the strike. So if there's a journalist on the scene that Israel does not know about, and it is a scene where there's a terror cell or a terror target, that journalist is, unfortunately, putting themselves in harm's way. So it is a horrific thing. This is the challenge with having civilians and journalists in the middle of a fight, and they are going to get hurt and oftentimes killed which is just the horror of warfare. But -- but Israel has a responsibility to check out the targets they are striking, but at the same time, understanding that journalists can't put themselves in the middle of a fight, because they're going to be harmed is combat.

WALKER: Such a difficult situation. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you.

BLACKWELL: We are expecting an update from officials in Maine. Police have confirmed the suspect in the mass shootings. There is dead we're live in Maine with the latest there. Also, Jordan's Foreign Minister will join us live as Israel confirms it has forces on the ground in Gaza. And will ask about concerns the conflict could expand.

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[08:21:58]

BLACKWELL: A nearly two-day manhunt is over. Police have found the body of the suspect accused of killing 18 people in Lewiston, Maine on Wednesday. They believe this is the suspect died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Investigators say he left a note indicating that he did not expect to be alive by the time it was found.

WALKER: Now they haven't revealed many details about a possible motive behind the massacre. CNN is Omar Jimenez joining us now from Lisbon, Maine, not far from where the suspect's body was found. Omar. OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so Amara, Victor. Yes, as you mentioned, we're not far from where the suspect's body was found. The police believe or at least law enforcement sources tell CNN that the body was found near a recycling plant, likely somewhere in the area in the woods back there. But obviously, officers are not letting us get any closer than where we are right now. That said, this is the close of a major chapter for this community because for many, it had created a sense of unease here over the last what became more than 48 hours as people did not know where this armed and dangerous suspect was as police described them. People didn't know if they could potentially run into him. And of course, this is someone that police said shot and killed at least 18 people across two locations within minutes of each other Wednesday night.

Now to give people an idea now that we're a few days removed of how this all unfolded the shooting. The first shooting happened Wednesday night at a bowling alley. And then minutes later, the next shooting happened at a bar and restaurant about a 10-minute drive between the two. 15-minute drive over to here in Lisbon, which is where police found his abandoned vehicle at a boat launch. And then about a 15- minute walk, there's there's essentially a Riverwalk trail from that boat launch. We believe that is where the body was found, though we don't know the exact location at this point.

We're expecting a press conference in the next hour and a half, where law enforcement told us specifically that is where they are going to answer a lot of our questions. Since last night, they said they really were just going to give notification of what happened and short on the Q and A. That said, that's one plane of investigations. On the other hand, investigators are trying to figure out why this happened. So they are combing through a note that was found also on social media. Not to mention while the investigations continue, it is going to be a much harder process for this community as they grieve and try to figure out how to move forward.

WALKER: All right. Well, hopefully, we'll get more information when that news conference starts in about an hour and a half from now. Omar Jimenez, thank you. Still to come, we are hearing reports that some aid agencies have lost contact with their teams and Gaza as Israel intensifies its bombardment and there is a communications blackout. We're going to speak to a UNICEF representative in the region next.

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BLACKWELL: Well, the war between Israel and Hamas appears to be getting more intense now. We're told by the World Health Organization that patients civilians and health workers in Gaza spent the night in darkness and fear their words. Gaza appears largely cut off from the world with communications badly disrupted by airstrikes. Several aid organizations say they have now lost contact with local staff in Gaza. Jeremy Hopkins joins us now. He is the UNICEF representative in Egypt.

Jeremy, good morning to you. Are you able to communicate with your colleagues in Gaza?

JEREMY HOPKINS, UNICEF REPRESENTATIVE IN EGYPT: We are not. As of last night, we don't -- we have lost contact with them. We're terribly, terribly concerned about their safety and well-being as well as the 1 million children in Gaza who are going through the same terrible, terrible, and terrifying conditions.

BLACKWELL: So explain the implications of not being able to communicate and what is the last that you've heard as it relates to the conditions there?

[08:30:00]

HOPKINS: Well, we -- for example, we know that 1.41 point 5 million people have been displaced and there are 600,000 children amongst that group and these people are in urgent need of humanitarian support now and that means water, food, medical, medicine and medical and health treatment. Our staff and the staff of many other organizations are working day and night to try and bring that support to people on the ground in Gaza, if they cannot communicate with each other it just as a terrible, terrible impediment to the ability to reach the most vulnerable. So this is our principal concern and of course, the security of our staff themselves that we have to keep as a primary concern.

And we I take this opportunity also to call on the parties to protect humanitarian workers who should never ever be a target it in any conflict.

BLACKWELL: We watched the local time overnight, the bombings, the airstrikes from the IDF across parts of Gaza. We've talked about it this morning from a military perspective, we talked about it from a geopolitical perspective. But from your perspective, from your angle, when you watch this most intense night yet, as it's been described, what went through your mind?

HOPKINS: Well, what as a child rights organization, our principal concern is, of course, children. And we know now that more than 3,000 children have been killed, which is shocking, horrifyingly high numbers, and no child should ever be killed in any conflict and every child should be protected.

The other part of my thinking is how are we going to continue to bring the much needed humanitarian life-saving support to these children and their families. And we will and we are, we are struggling to get pressure supplies into Gaza across the border, they are coming in too few. And too rarely we have -- we do have a number of trucks that have crossed and we're very pleased with that.

But we need a sustained humanitarian corridor to reach these children, their families, and all the more so after this further intensification of the conflict.

BLACKWELL: I don't know how close you are to the conversations about creating that humanitarian corridor. But where do they stand if you are?

HOPKINS: Well, I'm not close enough, not privy to the to the details of the conversation. But I know the parties are engaged in the conversation, but it's too slow. We need to get that supporting right now. Every minute or every hour, we are losing lives here. So the urgency, I cannot understate the urgency. I cannot overstate the urgency of this humanitarian corridor needs to be ramped up very fast if we are to live up to our current humanitarian commitments.

BLACKWELL: Fewer than 90 trucks have been allowed in. I've read that your organization estimates that the bare minimum should be 100 to 200 per day to service the people, the civilians there. One more here, the IDF says that Al Shifa Hospital, which is the largest hospital in Gaza, is also a command and control center there for Hamas with access to some tunnels.

They have not said whether they will attack but it is notable that they have pointed this out that this is what they say this hospital is Palestinians at night, others who have worked there deny it.

I wonder from your perspective from someone who is calling for the humanitarian corridor to protect those innocent civilians, children especially what do you make of this claim by the IDF that this hospital, this is also a center of operations for Hamas?

HOPKINS: Well, what I can say is that all parties are subject to the same international laws and attacks on schools and hospitals by any party is a grave child rights violation.

BLACKWELL: Jeremy Hopkins, there in Cairo for us. Thank you.

WALKER: There's a new challenger and the race to unseat President Biden and this time it's coming from within his own party, why Congressman Dean Phillips says he is taking on the president despite praising Biden's record.

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[08:38:14]

BLACKWELL: Minnesota Congressman Dean Phillips filed to run in New Hampshire's Democratic primary for President on Friday. This kicks off his long shot challenge to President Joe Biden. Phillips says that this has been a long time coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been trying to encourage the president to pass the torch. I've been encouraging other Democratic candidates to enter the stage. It's time for change. I love the president. I voted for his policies. I'm a Democrat. I support our policies. And we'll continue to do so with new twists, with new approaches and new visions. The issue right now is not who Joe Biden is what we have done collectively. The issue is very singular. America wants change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So Phillips left his house Democratic leadership position and there have been these intra party frustrations over his calls for Biden alternative. CNN political analyst and New York Times political reporter Astead Herndon joins me now from New York. Astead, good morning to you. So does he appear to really be a threat to President Biden?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANLAYST: Well, if we're thinking in the kind of traditional electoral sense, the evidence isn't strong just yet. I mean, when we look at the numbers, there is an undeniable desire for the Democratic electorate to kind of see other options. You see that kind of across the board. That number for President Biden has not only been trending high disapproval wise, but you'll see people kind of report that they will be interested in other options, but that's in the abstract.

You know, Dean Phillips is someone who does not have much name recognition. And when we see like kind of specific names added to that general sentiment, usually see Biden fare pretty strongly among Democrats. So it's going to be a tough road that's mentioned the logistic challenges because he's getting in so late. He's already missed filing deadlines and key states.

[08:40:00]

Obviously, there's still the questions over the early primary calendar. And even the New Hampshire's primary itself is not in compliance with the DNC rules. So I mean, when you look at the specifics, it doesn't look like a challenge to President Biden in terms of his ability to get the nomination at this point. But we should say there are some built in advantages for Dean Phillips, mainly, he's someone who can pass his own money, more than $70 million, who reported as personal income in Congress, someone who could invest that into that race to raise those numbers eventually, and maybe make the White House sweat a little.

BLACKWELL: It just seems like the math a method on this one, if he is filing to run, why New Hampshire, when they will likely have their delegates stripped of them for not following the calendar. And President Biden may not even be on the ballot there. I mean, you'd want to challenge him in a place where it would count towards something, what do you not?

HERNDON: Exactly. And so that's the reason why many people don't really see this as a serious effort. Some of those colleagues have been kind of claiming of this as a kind of vanity run. But I think there is a narrative importance to New Hampshire, you know, even though President Biden has, you know, may not appear on the ballot, and these DNC rules have kind of thrown him out of compliance. I don't think that that's something that's really translated to the majority of the electorate and not in the nitty-gritty like that.

So I think someone like Dean Phillips is banking that if he were to win something in New Hampshire, at least give him a kind of news moment to get himself out there. But he's got larger problems than that. He would have to really raise not only a name recognition to so folks kind of understand who he is, but really give a policy reason about why he should be back. This is just really someone who is saying that the polls don't look

good for President Biden kind of pitching and electability and generational change. But this is someone who has a kind of 100 percent voting record. It's not clear kind of what Dean Phillips version of America would look like, versus the one with President Biden.

And so, you know, that's the challenge that he has in front of him. I think we should really see this as a kind of a someone taking on the mantle of a general sentiment that is in the air, which isn't a growing angst among the party. So maybe he doesn't actually stop Biden from getting the nomination. But it highlights all those concerns among Democrats that are still laden underneath the surface, and the White House won't be too happy about that.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the Republican primary, several GOP candidates, including Donald Trump are expected to attend the Republican Jewish coalition's annual leadership summit. It's in Vegas this weekend, which we expect.

HERNDON: I think you should expect Republicans to kind of make a pitch about supporting Israel. And I think that you can see that rhetoric through it. But we've had already split lines and more from the candidates on this front. You know, when we think back to the kind of classic foreign policy story that Republicans used to say about themselves, you know, think around the George Bush-Dick Cheney time. That's not where this Republican Party is right now.

There's a real split about the kind of interventionist instinct of some versus the kind of isolation instinct of others. I think you've had Donald Trump really waver on that question in terms of and also he hasn't been someone who has been consistent and has found in the kind of antisemitic rhetoric himself. There's going to be an onus on him to really, I think really speak to that.

But I think across the party, you have a split on the foreign policy front that threatens to be even greater. Nikki Haley and Governor Ron DeSantis, I think are two specific people to watch as Donald Trump alternatives who have really had their most sharp differences when it comes to whether they're supporting refugees that might come from Gaza or when it comes to investing in a Russia. U.K. and Korean conflict and supporting Ukraine. Those have been huge splits from those two and I think those are people who will watch for it this coalition.

BLACKWELL: Astead Herndon, thanks so much.

HERNDON: Thank you for having me.

WALKER: New this morning. Israel confirms its ground forces are now inside Gaza entering from the north overnight, the foreign minister of neighboring Jordan will join us next.

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[08:47:53]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back, I'm Jim Sciutto in Northern Israel. Israeli forces are on the ground in Gaza now says the IDF that means infantry, armor, engineering units. This follows a devastating air campaign yesterday, yesterday as well.

Jordan sponsored a resolution before the United Nations calling for an immediate truce in Gaza. That resolution to non-binding was adopted the U.S. voted against it. I'm joined now by the Jordanian Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi from Amman. Minister, thanks for taking the time.

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you, sir.

SCIUTTO: You said prior to these ground operations today, that in an Israeli ground offensive there would be a human catastrophe. Now that operations have begun, I wonder what is your reaction?

SAFADI: Thank you, Jim. I said actually after the operation started last night, I'm sorry. So it's being played out on your screen, that this is just going to bring a humanitarian catastrophe of epic proportions. We all stand by that because we know as in your words, devastating air campaign yesterday, ground wars is just going to make it impossible. The number of death, the number of casualties, it's just going to sink us deeper into this abyss.

And then what, another war to be added to the many words we've had in the region, that saved no one. Our position, sir, is we need to stop this war. We need to go back to a piece that will save Palestinian, Israeli and other lives.

SCIUTTO: When you have expressed that position, both in public and privately to U.S. diplomats, have they listened to your opposition to this military campaign? What's been their response?

SAFADI: Look, we're in constant contact with the US. As you know, we're allies and we're friends and we're in continuous discussion. They have their views. We have our views. But I think by the end of the day we all want the same thing.

[08:50:02]

We want peace, we want an end of death and end of suffering and end of killing. How we get there is something that we're all discussing our position is very clear, this war will not get us there. Jim, imagine the amount of dehumanization that is happening. Imagine the amount of hatred that's coming out of this misery that we see unfolding in Gaza, that is not going to bring peace or security to the Israelis or to the Palestinians, or to any of us in the region.

So I think on the broader objective, I think people will have to be insane enough to support what we're saying, which is, let's go for peace, let's save lives. More killing is not going to help anybody and this is a conversation that we're having with all our friends and partners in the region and beyond. And this is where I hope all our efforts will converge.

SCIUTTO: Jordan, of course, yourself included quickly condemned the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel. And Jordan itself has been the victim of horrible terror attacks by ISIS and other groups. I wonder, what would you see as an acceptable military response from Israel to the October 7 attacks?

SAFADI: Sir, we condemn obviously the killing of Israeli civilians on October 7. We condemn the killing of Palestinian innocent since then. We see that we should not be squeezed between two pains. We realize the pain that that is there. But if we continue to operate within this space, we're just going to cause more pain for more people.

How many lives are going to have to die before we say this is not the path that we need to do. Those that are lost on both sides are lost. There's nothing we can do to bring them back. But we can save lives. We can stop others being killed. And this is really what our message, every life matters, Muslim life, Jewish life, Christian life, that is where we stand, and we just don't see that this war is going to bring security to anybody. It's not going -- it's not going to, as I said, bring back those who were gone.

Our focus should be we should allow sanity back and say, how do we all work together to stop this tragedy from happening ever again, to save Palestinian lives, Israeli lives. And again, if I may invoke what His Majesty said on the Cairo Peace Summit last week, our Muslim values 1,000 years before Geneva soldiers were told, do not kill a child, do not kill a woman, do not kill the elderly, do not eat and cut a tree. That is our call to everybody.

And we believe that going in that direction, recognizing the humanity of the other, refusing this perpetual hell that's being brought on Gaza. That is the path we want, so that we all come back and say, how do we make sure that this never happens again? How do we make sure that no Palestinians no Israelis suffer again?

SCIUTTO: President Biden, when he addressed the nation and the world following these attacks, in addition to condemning the October 7 attacks and expressing support for Israel, and its right to self- defense, he also like you said there needs to be a broader discussion about a longer term solution here, including a two state solution to the Israel problem, the Israel-Palestine problem. And I wonder, do you consider that a credible pledge from the U.S. President?

SAFADI: The U.S. president has many, many times before spoke of the need to end this conflict in a peaceful agreement. We believe that this is a sad as tragic what we're seeing now, again, we cannot continue down this path. At some point, the guns will have to go silent.

The question is, how many innocent Palestinian lives will have to fall until we get to that point, how many Israeli innocent lives would have to fall? But we have to get to that minute and once we get there the U.S. leadership is key to all our efforts to bring about a peaceful solution whose only path is the two-state solution, as His Majesty the King said, peace and blue states between the river Jordan and the sea.

SCIUTTO: Can that -- is that goal achievable with Hamas still in power in Gaza? As part of that solution, does Hamas need to go as well? SAFADI: Sir, what the Palestinian people want, the majority of what the Palestinian people want, the majority I believe what is really what people want is peace, is to live without having to wake up every morning to the fear of having their kids lost to a bullet or to any other of the abominable violence that we see.

That hope of freedom for Palestinians and again, putting things in context is not in any way justifying the killing of the innocent let me make that clear because it seems now that anybody who speaks this language is being dehumanized somehow.

[08:55:07]

We saw the terrorists, we say Josep Borrell, we saw others.

What I'm trying to say, Palestinian people, Israeli people want to live in peace. They are human beings that like all of us. We need to convince people that what is standing between them and that future of peace and dignity is violence -- is the horror that we're seeing played out.

So I believe that is what's missing here. And that's what we're trying to say. An idea can only be fought by an idea. Violence as an ideology, violence as means to achieving objectives have is not viable. We all know that. But we need to convince Palestinians that you have a future to look -- whoever is standing in the way will be by them, pushed away from the path.

SCIUTTO: Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

SAFADI: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: An impassioned plea there for a truce in Gaza. Victor and Amara. Back to you.

BLACKWELL: Jim, thanks. And thank you for joining us this morning.

WALKER: Smerconish is up next. We'll see you back here at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

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