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CNN This Morning

Rami Igra is Interviewed about Securing the Release of Hostages; Police Asked to Check on Maine Gunman; New 2024 Polls for the Republican Presidential Race. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 30, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:34]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this morning, Israeli officials say a German-Israeli woman who was kidnapped at the music festival on October 7th has been found dead. Shani Louk was one of the first faces we saw after the attack. Israel's foreign affair office says the 23- year-old was tortured and paraded around Gaza by Hamas. This comes as the IDF says the number of hostages believed to be held by Hamas in Gaza is up to 239.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And the families of those hostages being held by Hamas are, some of them, now calling on the Israeli government to do a lot more to secure their release. The families and crowds gathered in Tel Aviv over the weekend demanding swift action from the government as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces mounting criticism for a deleted social media post accusing top intelligence officials of not warning him of the attack before it happened. Netanyahu later took that down and apologized.

Families of the hostages want the prime minister to trade all of Israel's Palestinian prisoners for all of Hamas' hostages. Netanyahu vowed to exhaust all options to secure the release of their loved ones.

President Biden spoke with Netanyahu yesterday and talked about the ongoing efforts, especially these hostages held by Hamas and Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are in almost hourly contact with regional partners and with Israel to try to get to a point where there is a deal to have the hostages released. It is difficult. It is challenging. The Hamas terrorists have not been forth coming about allowing these hostages to go. But we believe that there can still be a pathway to get their release, and we are going to work tirelessly to make that happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now is Rami Igra, the former division chief of the hostages and the MIA unit within the Mossad, Israel's intelligence service.

Your Perspective this morning is incredibly, incredibly important. Thank you for being with us.

Could you address those calls by some of the loved ones of the hostages for Israel to release all of the Palestinian prisoners, which they're estimates - estimates of about 6,600. That comes from the Palestinian prisoners club. Would - would Israel do that?

RAMI IGRA, FORMER MOSSAD DIVISION CHIEF IN CHARGE OF HOSTAGES AND MIA: Let me go a little back and explain the situation.

Hamas is a dedicated organization to the destruction of Israel as is proof on the 7th of October in the morning when they came, raided Israeli villages, killed, raped, maimed.

[06:35:03]

The -- all the inhuman things that anyone can - can think about.

Now, Hamas is - is a religious organization. It's a radical Islamist organization. And from moment one what it said it - what it announced was that we want all our prisoners, or all the hostages that we have, and we don't have all the 239. We have a lot less but the Jihad has some and Palestinian families have some. But whatever we have, for all of these - for all of - of our prisoners.

Not only that, we are asking for guaranteed ceasefire, meaning once you have - you stop trying to eradicate us like you have vowed to do and then you will release 7,000 prisoners and make us a little stronger so we can continue our quest, which is to destroy Israel - destroy Israel and kill the Jews in Palestine. This is what Hamas wants.

Now, of course, the Israeli government cannot - cannot accept this. That's -- with all the pain and all our - all the suffering and all our sympathy and empathy to the families of these that have been abducted, Israel's government cannot accept this because if it they do accept this it means really the end of Israel as an independent state. Every Tom, Dick and Harry in the Gaza Strip can shoot missiles at us. You can't be secure living 10 miles, 15, 50 mile was from the Gaza Strip because you never know what's going to happen tomorrow morning on a Saturday morning when they raid your town and kill your family.

So, Israel can't accept this. The only way is a nonconditional release. And the Hamas being a religious and a very dedicated organization, there's no way they're going to go for this. They might release some of the foreign hostages, and there are something in the range of 100 foreign hostages, 20 or 30 Thai workers, all kinds of people, people -- tourists who were there that morning and who were abducted. So, it might -- they might go there. They might, through negotiations, do that. But the Israeli government, at the end of the day, decided that the only way that the Hamas might consider releasing the hostages is by pressuring the Hamas and continuing the incursion into the Gaza Strip.

MATTINGLY: Right.

IGRA: Not only that, during this incursion, there is a good chance that we will collect enough information, and we will know enough in order to release by force some of these hostages in the Gaza Strip.

MATTINGLY: Rami Igra, we appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you.

IGRA: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, the federal judge overseeing Donald Trump's federal election subversion case has reinstated a gag order. How Trump is now responding.

HARLOW: We do have some new details this morning about the gunman who killed 18 people in Maine. Glaring warning signs appear to have just been missed.

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[06:42:22]

MATTINGLY: New information shared with CNN reveals police were asked to check on the Maine mass shooter, Robert Card, just weeks before last Wednesday's attacks in Lewiston. It came after a fellow National Guardsman expressed concern he would, quote, snap and commit a mass shooting. Card was found dead Friday from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His body, discovered inside a box trailer belonging to a recycling facility he had been fired from.

CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now.

Omar, you were on the ground there. These signs that were missed, it's horrifying to some degree.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's horrifying. And, look, there -- there were always two planes of investigations here. One was, of course, trying to find where this person was, which we did. Police found him dead. But also was trying to figure out how this happened. Well, according to information obtained by CNN and some of our colleagues still on the ground right now is in mid-September that law enforcement was responding to what was essentially a wellness check on this shooter because a National Guardsman had reported that the shooter, an Army Reservist, that the guardsman was concerned he would snap and commit a mass shooting.

Plus, that law enforcement officer, according to information obtained, was told by the shooter's family that this - that he, at the time, had been answering the door with a handgun out of view.

That said, there was an attempt to check on him, but then a missing persons report appears to have been filed, and then the case was closed on October 1st. So, there's still a lot of questions as to what made them close that, if that was indeed the case. And all of that, for context wise, was happening just weeks before this -- these mass shootings actually happened. MATTINGLY: Blatant red flag there. I do want to ask, four members of

Lewiston's deaf community were killed in the attack. You spoke to somebody from the school there. What did you learn?

JIMENEZ: Yes, yes, I spoke to the person overseeing the main educational center for the deaf and hard of hearing, which - which oversees the - the Baxter School for the Deaf. And while this was incredibly devastating for everyone killed in these mass shootings, it was especially so for Maine's deaf community. Four killed who had been gathered to play corn hole, along with some fellow deaf members.

Take a listen to some of our conversation.

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JIMENEZ: When you thought about your community in the context of these past few days, what did you think about?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple things. Support and access.

JIMENEZ: Losing one member of any community is - is devastating. Here you lost four. What kind of an impact does that have on a community like yours?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so sad. I'm sad for our community. Josh Seal was in the preschool here when he was very young. And he grew up and he stayed connected through our outreach program, through sporting activities.

[06:45:05]

You know, really was connected for a long time in his life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Health care providers across Maine --

JIMENEZ (voice over): Josh Seal became known to many interpreting during Covid-19 press conferences.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we think about this movement --

JIMENEZ: And even at times for the Biden administration. He and his wife have children at the Baxter School.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were really leaders in the greater community and we can see that this next generation are going to carry on the legacy in honor of their father.

JIMENEZ (on camera): What do you think this community will miss most about him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His leadership. His advocacy. His even keeled personality. His - you know, he was always there. We could see him. He was so open, supporting our families.

JIMENEZ (voice over): Hopkin (ph) says Billy Brackett graduated from the Baxter School. His daughter now attends.

JIMENEZ (on camera): Tell me a little bit about - about him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, Billy Brackett, people describe him as such a gentle giant. And he was always giving great language for his daughter as an example. And he was a wonderful role model for many of our parents that can hear, that are learning sign language, and they're trying to learn how to interact with their deaf or hard of hearing child.

JIMENEZ: How are you going to talk to the kids here in this community about what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a tough thing. Our support counsellors have been wonderful over the past few days, been meeting and supporting our staff as well because our staff are struggling. It's not just teachers of these children, but their friends that they have lost in the community.

JIMENEZ (voice over): Hopkin says Bryan MacFarlane also graduated from the school and Steve Vozzella had ties.

JIMENEZ (on camera): Just what sort of impact have you found or do you believe this is going to have on the deaf community?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a huge impact. We are connected here in Maine. And we're very tight. But we also have that greater connection with the world at large too. It's very strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And one of the things we talked about as well was about their concerns for access in the midst of this because, obviously, when this first began, it was a crisis and people were trying to get information and they felt like interpreters were being cut out of press conference shots and there were points that were made throughout. And credit to some of the local law enforcement as well that as this unfolded, they pushed the media to make sure that the interpreters were included in some of the shots because everybody wanted information, but it became even scarier for this community because they felt like they didn't have easy access to the information.

MATTINGLY: Yes, an important point. Important piece.

Omar Jimenez, thank you.

HARLOW: Well, there is a new poll, Iowa 2024, on the Republican field just out. We'll show you where the stands stand, next.

MATTINGLY: And President Biden speaking with the leaders of Egypt and Israel about the growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza. What was discussed on those critical calls. We'll have it ahead.

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[06:52:39] HARLOW: Former Vice President Mike Pence is out of the 2024 presidential race. This morning we are getting our first look at the remaining Republican presidential field. A new "Des Moines Register"/NBC News/Mediacom Iowa poll just out. And, no surprise, Donald Trump leading the way. And his lead grew. The former president is 27 points higher than his nearest competition. Nikki Haley is tied with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis in second.

Joining us live from Sioux City, Iowa, our chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Good morning.

No surprise that Trump is number one. But I think the rise of Nikki Haley is interesting.

JEF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Poppy.

You're right, I mean it is a race for second place that is really defining this Republican presidential candidacy. And the increase for Nikki Haley since the last poll was taken is really quite extraordinary. Now she is in second place here in Iowa with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. And you can see that, of course. Their competition has been rising. We saw that on the last debate stage. We'll see it on the next one, which is just next week.

But it is that strong, commanding lead from the former president that really defines this race. So, yes, the race has changed over the weekend with Mike Pence dropping out. That has barely made a blip into the state of the race here.

So, it's a three-person race at this point. One interesting point, though, Poppy. About half of caucus goers say they have not made up their minds. They may still be open to changing their mind. So that gives hope, perhaps, to some of the lower candidates. But, for Donald Trump, his supporters are locked in. There's no doubt. He made that clear yesterday right here in Sioux City.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I was very disrespectful to Iowa. I'd like to apologize. Because I go around saying, of course we're going to win Iowa. And my people say, you cannot assume that to this extent. Well, we are - I think we're up by 47 points or something. So, we - so, we should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So not quite 47 points, but he certainly is up by a considerable margin. So, that is the state of things now about two and a half months before the Iowa caucuses open the Republican campaign.

And one other point in this poll, all of the legal challenges that we talk about so much, that is having barely an effect on Republican caucus goers. They want Trump to be their nominee. But there is still that race for second place.

[06:55:02]

And that, of course, now is what will be focused on in the coming weeks.

MATTINGLY: All right, Jeff, stay with us. It looks a little chilly. It looks like it's becoming Iowa. It must be campaign season. But stay with us, I want to bring in political commentator and Spectrum News political anchor Errol Louis.

Mike Pence dropping out. Understand that's not going to dramatically reshape the race, but there has long been a thought that it needs to - the field needs to narrow to actually put a challenge up to Trump.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure.

MATTINGLY: You think that's something that's about to start happening in a tangible way?

LOUIS: Unlikely, in part because of our broke campaign system. If you have a couple of billionaire backers who want to flood money into a big PAC, a political action committee, and most of the leading candidates have that, you can stay in definitely. There's no particular reason to drop out.

Where for someone like Mike Pence, the numbers were so damning and it was so daunting, it -- clearly he just had to make a different choice.

But if you're - if you're Ron DeSantis, who had a whole bunch of campaign money left over from his races in Florida, and it's all in a super PAC, and they can just continue spending, there's no particular reason to drop out. You can hope that lightning will strike. You can hope that Trump has a legal or political stumble that takes him out of the race. But there's no particular reason to think that they're going to all get together and say, I'm the best challenger, so the rest of you should just put all of your hopes and dreams aside and make me the number one challenger to Trump. Not going to happen.

HARLOW: Jeff, I'm also interested in independents because according to this new poll, Trump is doing a lot better in Iowa among independents, 33 percent, right, where he was at 21 percent. Nikki Haley also seeing a surge among independents.

ZELENY: That is interesting. I mean the Iowa Republican caucuses are for Republican voters. So, there are some Republican identified - Republican leaning independents. So they certainly can participate here. But that's a bigger factor in New Hampshire and as the race goes on from here. Independents generally have had many more questions about the former president's eligibility, about his legal challenges.

But one thing that's clear, that this is Donald Trump's party. This is hardly news. Hardly a surprise to. He's remade his party. And as we talk to voters, some are attending these Iowa caucuses, these events for the first time. Donald Trump has reshaped this Republican Party into his own image. The question is, will any of the outside factors, like the legal

challenges that we're going to see unfold even more over the next couple months, will that change any minds? And it's almost like there is a tale of two campaigns. Sitting through a Trump rally yesterday for an hour and a half of him speaking, we could have been several years ago, made no reference to that, except they're coming after me through the indictment. So, the information flow here is simply not affecting these Republican voters. The independents, it is a question. But in Iowa, Poppy, it's not as big of a factor as in other states.

HARLOW: I wonder if we'll see that reflected in place like New Hampshire, et cetera. Interesting.

MATTINGLY: To that point, though, Errol, you know, the judge, Tanya Chutkan, reinstated the gag order. We'll have the legal discussion in a little bit. But, politically, does it have any impact besides probably boosting him and giving him something to talk about?

LOUIS: No.

MATTINGLY: And Zeleny's sitting through 90 minutes of his speech.

LOUIS: Right. I mean that -- that's right. I mean, look, the -- you're dealing with different information universes. And Trump's is sort of optimized for his - his message is optimized for his audience. Other information breaking through like gag orders or, you know, sort of legal setbacks, the fact that he's basically lost the bulk of the civil trial here in New York and aims to lose - or is on path to lose a lot of his personal fortune, that - that doesn't even touch people who like him.

And what they're telling the pollsters is that it has nothing to do with anything. I mean there was a very interesting number that was out there where the vast majority of likely caucus goers, Republican likely caucus goers in Iowa said, that the legal matters make no difference whatsoever. And so the traditional strategy, which is really what Mike Pence was following, was the idea of being as conservative as you can in the traditional areas, social conservatism, strong on defense, economic conservatism. It made no impression whatsoever. And he dropped out with 2 percent of the vote.

This is Donald Trump's party. And Donald Trump's party is about Donald Trump, period. When they say that they really like how he -- where he stands on issues, you ask one more question, what issues are you talking about, and the whole thing sort of falls apart.

HARLOW: One other interesting thing on this. I know I keep on the Nikki Haley thread, but when you dig into the cross tabs of this fall -

MATTINGLY: I love cross tabs.

HARLOW: Phil's favorite. Haley leads both Trump and DeSantis with suburban poll respondents. That's interesting.

LOUIS: It is very interesting. It - look, it points to - to jump ahead, it points to a possibility that she may end up on the ticket with Donald Trump. The reality is, he has the biggest amount of trouble and, frankly, a lot of Biden's margin of victory in 2020 was due to college-educated, suburban women. And that's what Nikki Haley is.

HARLOW: Yes.

LOUIS: And that's what she brings to the table. And if she can bring in some votes in a few key states -

[07:00:03]

HARLOW: Yes.

LOUIS: She would be politically a very potent edition to the Republican ticket.

HARLOW: Thirty-two percent for her in that - in that suburban poll respondents for