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House Has $14 Billion Israel Aid Plan; Ricarda Louk is Interviewed about Her Daughter; Trial To Block Trump from Colorado Ballot. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 31, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:10]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So, in his calls for more aid to Israel, President Biden has repeatedly urged Congress not to forget about America's commitments to Ukraine.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can't let petty partisan angry politics get in the way of our responsibilities as a great nation. We cannot and will not let terrorists like Hamas and tyrants like Putin win. I refuse to let that happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: In a rare case of unity in Washington, leadership in both parties in the Senate appear to be on the same page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This is a moment for swift and decisive action, to prevent further loss of life and to impose real consequences on the tyrants who terrorized the people of Ukraine and of Israel. And right now the Senate has a chance to produce supplemental assistance that will help us do exactly that.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We need to work with our colleagues in the House to ensure all forms -- all these forms of aid make it to the president's desk. We must not succumb to the false allures of isolationism that the hard right now professes because the only thing that will achieve is to make America less safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Even the new speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, seems to be on board with funding for both Israel and Ukraine, although he does think they should be passed as separate bills.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We can't allow Vladimir Putin to prevail in Ukraine because I don't believe it would stop there. And it would probably encourage and empower China to perhaps make a move on Taiwan. We have these concerns. We're not going to abandon them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: But here's where the reality sets in. Under the new speaker, Mike Johnson, the House has released its proposal for an Israel funding bill, does not have Ukraine funding. No path or bill for Ukraine funding. That Israel funding bill already facing an uphill battle in the House. Some Republicans already opposed. Democrats as well. And it would absolutely be dead in the Democrat-led Senate. It includes $14 billion in aid to Israel but it offsets that money by cutting the exact same amount from the IRS. No money, of course, is allocated for Ukraine.

Now despite Republican hand-wringing about ballooning deficits, the spending offset would actually add to the deficits at the tune of about $30 billion. That's according to the Nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Budget. The reason is, well, math. When you cut funding to the agency in charge of collecting revenue, you tend to bring in less revenue.

Joining us now, Josh Barro, writer of the "Very Serious" newsletter, and Akayla Gardner, White House correspondent for "Bloomberg News."

And, Akayla, very proud of myself for the math that I was doing. But this is clearly a negotiating strategy by House Republicans, but I'm wondering what the end game here is at this point?

AKAYLA GARDNER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": I think for Johnson, he really knows that he has to please the most conservative members of his caucus if he wants to keep his position. We know this vote or the ability to vote a speaker out is still on the table for him and so he wants to signal to them that he's prioritizing spending cuts, which has been a huge priority of the caucus after Democrats were in control of the House for those first two years. And so he's definitely wanting to deliver that.

But as you mentioned, this bill is very unlikely to pass. As soon as it hits the Senate, or if it even gets there, it's very unlikely to actually get over the finish line.

HARLOW: That's a big deal. I mean he has said, Johnson, he wants to change the rules to make it harder to get removed, but he hasn't. So, the rules are the rules and he has to walk the same tight rope that McCarthy had to walk. So, does this even pass the chamber?

JOSH BARRO, WRITER, "VERY SERIOUS" NEWSLETTER: I assume Israel will pass at some - Israel aid will pass at some point. It's not clear to me that this is going to pass the chamber. I mean they're hoping that some number of Democrats are going to feel so strongly that they have to vote for whatever Israel aid package is put on the floor, that they will vote for this even though it has this IRS cut because they know that's not going to become law eventually anyway.

It's not clear to me whether that's true, how many, if any, Democrats are actually going to feel compelled in that way. And you have some Republicans on the right in the conference who are broadly opposed to foreign aid and don't even want to do a foreign aid package for Israel. So, it's not clear that you have a majority to pass this in the House.

But the -- in terms of pleasing the hard right members of his caucus, I mean this has been a pattern with Republican majorities in the House of Representatives for ten years where you have this kabuki where you pass some conservative wish list bill and that's supposed to be the moral victory for people on the right of the caucus.

[06:35:13]

But sooner or later you need to pass something that will pass the Senate and that can be signed by a Democratic president. And ultimately that's going to be something that has people in - on the right fringe of the Republican House conference quite unhappy. And so if, you know, if Mike Johnson needs to deliver for those people, he's not going to be able to and pass an Israel aid package. I do think one has to pass eventually politically and also they have to pass a bill to continue government spending because -

HARLOW: I was just going to say, this is his first test but he has to keep the government open.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BARRO: Right. And so you could end up rolling those things all together. It might be that there's one - one package that passes somewhere toward the end of November that includes funding to keep the government open and includes supplemental funding for Israel and Ukraine and maybe for other priorities. But at some point Johnson is going to have to bring something to the floor that is going to upset people like Chip Roy on the right end of his caucus. And that's when we'll see whether he can retain the speakership in a way that McCarthy couldn't.

MATTINGLY: But, Akayla, to that point, this is the hurdle for this Republican conference. This was always Kevin McCarthy's biggest problem. He can do step one of the kabuki theater that we all know very, very well. You know the process. But what McCarthy could never get to was step two, three and four, which actually reaches an outcome.

Do you think Johnson has the space to reach an outcome here.

GARDNER: I think that's not what he's trying to achieve with this proposal. I think he's trying to signal boost the priorities of the conservative members of his caucus and I think something that's frustrating for the White House is they felt that their supplemental funding request was really something that could pass. They included border security measures, funding to increase security at the border and they felt that that was going to be able to get Republican support here.

MATTINGLY: And Indo-Pacific funding for Taiwan as well. GARDNER: Exactly, and that's also something that's very - has wide,

bipartisan support. And so they felt like that was something that they could actually get over the finish line. But I think Johnson did not want to take that up immediately. He wanted to show that he's willing to hold a hard line and willing to go to bat with the White House.

HARLOW: But what about combining -- I'm glad you brought up border funding because the -- Biden's proposal for 100 billion was Taiwan, Ukraine, Israel, border funding, humanitarian aid. What if there were a coupling together of the border funding with this Israel package, would that be more palatable to those on the far right?

BARRO: I think it would have to be more than just border funding. I mean this is where the action is in the Senate. The division in the Republican Senate caucus.

HARLOW: Right.

BARRO: There's the question of, should we do this broad aid package for these bipartisan priorities or do we also need policy changes at the border.

The view that a lot of conservative Republicans in the Senate have is that more money for border - for border spending without policy changes just more money to implement the Biden policy on immigration that they don't like.

HARLOW: Yes, that's something that Senator Langford said this weekend. It's an important distinction.

BARRO: Yes. And, frankly, I think the Biden administration should want certain policy changes at the border because there are certain things that the administration is already trying to do that are continuity with Trump administration policy, trying to reduce the number of people entering the country illegally, coming to the border and making asylum claims that are often ultimately going to be rejected but after years of process. There are things they're doing that are legally dubious that were also legally dubious that - when Trump did them that they could legalize if they were going to do some border policy changes.

But the Biden administration doesn't really like to talk about what its border policy actually is and they would be sort of admitting the extent to which that they have continuity or trying to have continuity with Trump era policies. So, that feels like it should be an area of possible bipartisan agreement because it implicitly is. But the two sides in Congress clearly are not there at all on reaching that deal and immigration policy is complicated, trying to paper that within a matter of weeks when you need to do the supplemental would be challenging. So, I don't think that's going to be in the final agreement, although probably should be.

HARLOW: Josh, thank you.

Akayla, great to have you. MATTINGLY: Well, the trial seeking to disqualify Donald Trump from the

2024 ballot, it is now underway in Colorado. Takeaways from the opening arguments, that's ahead.

And the mother of 23-year-old Shani Louk, whose remains were just found after she was kidnapped during Hamas's attack on that music festival in southern Israel, joins us.

Stay with us.

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[06:43:02]

HARLOW: This morning, Israel confirming they have found the remains of 23-year-old Shani Louk. Shani was at the Novo Music Festival in southern Israel where so many young people had gathered to celebrate music and peace when Hamas attacked. She was also one of the first victims that we saw. We've seen so many beautiful pictures of her. Her body was seen, though, in a Hamas propaganda video shortly after the attack. And we are going to show you that video because her mother wants the world to see how brutally Hamas treated her daughter. Before we play it, I want to warn you, it is graphic.

So here you see Shani appearing to be unconscious in the back of a truck being driven into Gaza by Hamas militants. We are blurring the images of her body. Shani's mother, Ricarda Louk, is with us this morning.

Ricarda, thank you very much for being here to share a bit about your daughter as we all remember her and honor her life.

You, as every mother would, have been holding on to hope, any hope you had that -- that she had survived. But you got the news that she did not. What do you want the world to know about her?

RICARDA LOUK, MOTHER OF SHANI LOUK: Maybe just try to remember her as she was, as a beautiful, lovely person. She liked to travel and music and dancing. And she was traveling and had many friends all over the world. And she just enjoyed laughing and experiencing life. And -- so it was just cut too short.

HARLOW: You can see in --

LOUK: But, yes.

HARLOW: You can see in the pictures of her really how full of life she is. She loved music. I mean the fact that was a festival also to celebrate peace, and look what happened, is just striking. And an artist as well, is that right?

LOUK: Yes, she's very artistic.

[06:45:04]

She always painted. She designs clothes. She's a tattoos artist doing tattoos for others. And, yes. It just - it came from a celebration to a nightmare. Yes, it was such a contrast.

HARLOW: Such a contrast. Your - your husband said this to Israel's Channel 13 that I was so struck by when you guys got the news. He said "I'm happy because I know where she is. She isn't lying in some tunnel under Gaza. Every minute we are firing at them and all the earth is shaking and there is dust and it's impossible to breathe." Do you share --

LOUK: Yes.

HARLOW: Some of that relief? I know it's - it's a weird question to ask, right? You've lost your daughter. But at the same time, to have this clarity.

LOUK: Yes, you know, after three weeks that you - you have no idea where your daughter is, what they're doing to her, what is happening, what is -- you don't know if she's alive or not or injured, nothing. There's just like you're in a vacuum for three weeks, just hoping to get some signs or life signs. And then suddenly you get the worst news, but in one hand it's really, OK, now it's final, now we can stop look for her, which is some finality to go on.

On the other hand, we always had hopes. We were optimistic that she will come back. We will say, OK, maybe -- probably she's injured. Probably she experienced the worst nightmares there have been. She will have a trauma from the war zone she's been in. I mean we were willing to take everything just come back. But -- but at least we know what happened and she didn't suffer and I think the worst outcome would have been that all the hostages would have been released and maybe she wouldn't be one of them and then we would wonder all our life where she is, what happened and nobody maybe could give us an answer. I think that's the worst scenario that could happen. So --

HARLOW: You are sitting shiva now and sharing stories about her and your memories of her. Can you leave us with one of your favorite memories of your daughter?

LOUK: She was very -- also as a small kid she was very stubborn. Like she knew everything, what she wants. She was very decisive. And she - she was very funny. And she was playing with her brothers and sisters and was making funny movies and editing and creating really funny movies, which we really loved to see, also when they grow up. And she was very creative and very funny. So, that's what we always remember about her.

HARLOW: Clearly she brought a lot of joy into this world, Ricarda. May her memory be a blessing. And thank you for being with us.

LOUK: Thank you. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, the war between Israel and Hamas creating tension on some college campuses around the country and a man in Nevada was just charged with making anti-Semitic threats against Senator Jacky Rosen. More, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:52:44]

MATTINGLY: Well, in just a few hours, an historic but long-shot trial resumes in Colorado that could get former President Trump kicked off the ballot based on the 14th Amendment. Trump's lawyers clashing with the challengers yesterday, accusing them of trying to derail Trump's campaign and bashing their case as, quote, "anti-democratic." The challengers argued this is a necessary step to ensure a, quote, "fair 2024 election" by keeping an ineligible candidate off the ballot.

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ERIC OLSON, ATTORNEY FOR THE PETITIONERS: Trump incited a violent mob to attack our Capitol, to stop the peaceful transfer of power under our Constitution.

And we are here because Trump claims, after all that, he has the right to be president again. But our Constitution, our shared charter of our nation, says he cannot do so.

SCOTT GESSLER, TRUMP LAWYER: Frankly, President Trump didn't engage. He didn't carry a pitchfork to the Capitol grounds. He didn't lead a charge.

He gave a speech in which he asked people to peacefully and patriotically go to the Capitol to protest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: At the heart of this argument is Section 3 of the 14th Amendment that disqualifies anyone who engages in, quote, "insurrection or rebellion." And the group challenges Trump's eligibility is using his own words against him. They have been playing clips in their opening statements yesterday in court from his speech on election night 2020 when he falsely claimed victory, also playing video from January 6th, the day of the insurrection, where he urged his supporters to, quote, "fight like hell" at the Capitol.

With us now, CNN's senior political commentator, former Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger. He has a brand-new book out, "Renegade: Defending Democracy and Liberty in Our Divided Country." It is out today.

Congressman, thank you.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks. Great to be here.

HARLOW: Congrats on the book.

KINZINGER: Thank you. Thank you. My first and maybe only one. It's quite a - it's quite a process.

HARLOW: It's a challenge. It's a challenge.

KINZINGER: Yes, it sure is. HARLOW: Well, I -- this case, the trial in Colorado, just started but

I thought it was really interesting in opening statements yesterday that they've been repeatedly citing findings from your committee, from the January 6th committee, that you chaired. And - and in your book you ask, is unity possible without accountability? Is this the venue for that accountability? Because the counterargument to it is you're disenfranchising voters by keeping them off the ballot.

KINZINGER: Yes. So, my view is basically, I think they're legally justified in pursuing this. I don't think it's the best thing for the country to heal through.

[06:55:01]

Because you can imagine if Donald Trump is removed from the ballot, you're making a decision not by, you know, the election of people or the lack of election, you're making a ballot basically by a court. And you're making a decision by a court. And I think that will be very divisive in the long-term. So --

HARLOW: By an unelected judge. It's not even a jury trial.

KINZINGER: Yes, right. And I can't imagine a point at which anybody in the country, or most people in the country would be like, oh, OK, well, I understand that a judge found him ineligible, therefore we're OK with this. I just think it will be very divisive.

Regardless of what is ruled, Donald Trump has to be defeated at the ballot because that's the best way for this country to heal.

MATTINGLY: That argument - and this is not quibbling with the argument you're making, but I feel like has been pervasive for six or seven years, well, we can't do this because then the country won't heal.

KINZINGER: No, I agree.

MATTINGLY: We can't pursue that. We can't do a January 6th committee. We can't impeach. We can't impeach again. We can't bring charges against him.

What -- people talking about the country healing, we're not even close to figuring out what the wound is, if you want to use the analogy, or the metaphor there.

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: So, how does this actually move forward?

KINZINGER: Yes, no, I fully agree with you and I think - I think Donald Trump should have been impeached, obviously, because of what he did. Too many people in Congress, and I talk about this, made an excuse about not voting. They're, oh, he's out of office therefore it's not appropriate for me to vote to impeach. No, you're scared to vote to impeach. That's what it is. That was something prescribed.

This argument in court, again, I'm actually supportive of the argument. I think it's correct, you know, but it's taking kind of a nuanced approach and saying he disqualified himself because of his word here and everything else. I just think the best answer is to defeat him at the ballot.

But we do have to get - and I agree with you, we have to get past this point of saying, oh, we can't do this, we can't do that, because Donald Trump tried to commit a coup in this country. Let's be very clear. And if he is not prosecuted and if he is not found guilty, what we've said is, it's OK to attempt a coup as long as you failed. But if you succeed, well, you're in charge, so you can drop the charges anyway.

HARLOW: One of the striking parts of your book is how reflective you are on what you think is part of your role in some of the rise of extremism. Here's what you write, "I feel some responsibility for January 6th and the rise of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and her ilk, if only because I was a participant in it and witness to the GOP's gradual dissent into a dysfunctional and destructive force in our politics."

That is rare to hear members of Congress, even former, be that reflective and take on some blame, is that what you're doing?

KINZINGER: Yes, I think you have to. I think - look, if I'm going to tell my story, and I tell my story for one reason, which is, I think it tells the broader story of the party. I think that's why there's an interest in where the country has gone. But you have to be self- reflective and say, I got this stuff wrong, too. Like, I'm not - I didn't - I'm not the only guy that's ever come out of Congress and is like, man, I just didn't get anything wrong. If I said that, then don't trust what I'm saying.

And, you know, I watched as the GOP began this dissent, as it - as it flirted with the use of fire and fear and anger and division to fund raise. And I didn't speak out like I should have. And I, you know, in some cases I even used those forces myself.

It was now, when I have the ability to kind of look back at the beginning to today and say, like, I should have seen these signs. I should have seen these signs. And now I'm off that train and we've got to fix it because it's pretty bad.

MATTINGLY: You hit -- something really caught me in your book, talking about fame as a lawmaker and watching the dissent in the 12, 13 years I covered Congress and how social media and cable news, TV hits, chasing TV hits just totally changed the face of the chamber itself.

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Is there any way back from that?

KINZINGER: You've just got to elect better people. Fame's a drug and -

MATTINGLY: But you can raise money through that, which I think is probably the biggest disincentive. KINZINGER: Yes, totally. Exactly. So, you know, when I would go on TV as a member of Congress, and if I would say something outrageous, you always get texts after you're on TV and it feels good. Everybody saw you. You go out and they're like, oh, I saw you on TV. And that becomes a drug. Like, the more of that you get, the more of that you need and want.

And what we have to do is, this is - like, D.C. is not going to fix the problem. People have to demand better. Quit electing people that are performative. Quit electing people that are just trying to be cool on television and elect people that are going to come out and say, here's what I've accomplished, here's what I want to accomplish. And, frankly, if people outside of my district don't know my name, that's OK.

HARLOW: Also to that point, I want to see who you dedicated the book to, I know it's small. For Sofia and Christian, your kids, I hope I make you proud.

MATTINGLY: Awe.

KINZINGER: They're great. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Congratulations. Congratulations.

MATTINGLY: Thank you. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Appreciate it. Adam Kinzinger.

CNN THIS MORNING continues now.

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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A clear and firm message from Israel, no ceasefire in Gaza.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Troops getting deeper, planes bringing in air strikes, artillery fire like that going in.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The ground operation serves the goal of getting more hostages released.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three people, peaceful people, are being forced to be pawns in the game of war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not going to fall into the mind games of Hamas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Civil order is breaking down in Gaza.

[07:00:00]

Grave violations of epic proportions are taking place.

MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israel needs to do everything it can to minimize the number of civilian deaths.

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: We know there's a lot more that needs to be