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Israel And Hamas Agree To Hostage Deal, 4-Day Pause In Fighting; Source: Truce To Begin Thursday At 10 AM Israel Time, 3 AM ET; Rep. Jonathan Jackson (D-IL) Speaks Out On Calls For A Ceasefire. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 22, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JON FINER, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: But to be honest, we are really focused -- laser-focused on just getting this first step implemented and executed as agreed. Anything we could do to build on it would obviously be positive but that will have to wait for another day.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: When Judith and Natalie Raanan were released -- two of the first hostages to be released coming out of Gaza -- you were in Jake Sullivan's office at the time and you were actually able, Jon, to track their movements in real time. Will you be able to do that again this time?

FINER: So I think we are going to wait and see how this all plays out in execution. It will be a number of hours before this begins. We're obviously going to monitor it as closely as we possibly can to make sure that the release is executed --

HARLOW: So --

FINER: -- safely. Again, none of this is done until people actually cross the border out of Gaza and into safety.

HARLOW: Part of this agreement also is that Israel has agreed to six- hour pauses per day in their drone surveillance of Hamas' operations in Gaza. Will U.S. drones pause that, too?

FINER: Those pauses will be across the board is my understanding.

HARLOW: How did you get President -- Prime Minister Netanyahu to agree to the pause? I mean, it was as recent as the weekend that he was essentially saying -- our reporting is no way to a pause. And now it's not just a day, now it's four days and maybe longer.

FINER: The government of Israel has always said that it would tie pauses to the possible release of hostages. So the negotiation then was about how many hostages, how much time, and a number of other details that are part of this arrangement as well. But I'll leave it to the parties themselves to describe.

We worked very closely, obviously, with the government of Israel in trying to structure a deal that worked for the Israeli cabinet, which had to vote on this deal last night. We want to thank also the government of Qatar and the government of Egypt that played a role in this. But I really can't overstate the degree to which the president himself personally made phone calls and personally pressed leaders to get this deal done so the people could come home.

HARLOW: Yeah, yeah.

Jon, Israel has released a list of 300 Palestinian prisoners that could be released. On that list, it's a majority of young men, 16 to 18 years old. Our Oren Liebermann reporting that some are members of Hamas, some are members of Islamic Jihad.

Obviously, you've seen the criticism from Israel's national security minister who is saying look, last time with the Gilad Shalit deal in 2011, Yahya Sanwar was released and he now heads Hamas.

Is the White House comfortable with this list?

FINER: So, look, any list that the Israeli government was comfortable releasing in exchange for these hostages the United States was going to be supportive of. This is obviously a very difficult decision for the Israeli government, for the Israeli cabinet. They met at great length last night and they decided to proceed. And I think they decided to proceed for exactly the right reason -- that there are people in a just unconscionable situation who don't deserve to be there inside Gaza, and it is imperative to bring them home, even in the context of this conflict.

HARLOW: Jon, Axios is reporting that Secretary of State Antony Blinken is going to go back to Israel next week for talks with Israeli and Palestinian officials. Is that happening?

FINER: I'll leave it to the State Department to concern -- to confirm Sec. Blinken's travel plans.

But yeah, we will be intensively engaged in the region with the government of Israel throughout the duration of this conflict. This is not the end of the war. This is a pause for a number of days during which hostages will be released, humanitarian assistance will surge. The Gaza -- the people of Gaza -- the residents in Gaza will get a degree of relief but the work of diplomacy related to this conflict goes on.

HARLOW: Just quickly, Jon, you just said this is not the end of the war. So does that mean you don't see any scenario where this pause continues to effectively become a ceasefire?

FINER: That will really be up to the parties to decide. What we will be looking at is whether there is a way to build on what is happening over the next several days to get more hostages out -- that remains a high priority -- including any remaining Americans after these hostages are released, and we'll be focusing on that over the coming days. But first things first. We've got to get the people --

HARLOW: Yeah. FINER: -- who have been agreed out of Gaza.

HARLOW: Well look, I know you guys have all been working around the clock on this and everyone is waiting to see who can come home.

Jon Finer, at the White House, thank you.

FINER: Thank you.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: So many important questions. I mean, just going through and so many questions we still have.

HARLOW: Of the three. So two women --

HILL: Yeah.

HARLOW: -- and a child.

HILL: Right.

HARLOW: Wait -- we'll wait for names.

HILL: That's what we'll be waiting for on that.

HARLOW: In terms of Americans.

HILL: Yeah.

Just ahead, the families of the more than 230 hostages held by Hamas as they wait to see whether their loved ones are among the 50 released as part of that deal. We are going to speak with one man who is hoping to hear that his sister Yarden is, in fact, one of them.

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[07:38:08]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SOURCE": I'm Kaitlan Collins in Tel Aviv where overnight, Israel's full cabinet has now approved a deal with Hamas that would release at least 50 hostages in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinian prisoners in Israel.

Oren Liebermann is here with me in Tel Aviv. Oren, we're learning more about what this is going to look like. We're expecting to see it start at 10:00 a.m. local time here tomorrow. That's 3:00 a.m. Eastern.

I'm told there's about an 8-hour period -- 6-hour period for the actual facilitation of the hostages to be released. But do we have any idea logistically what this could look like?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have seen hostage exchanges before -- not many, but it has happened. We don't have the details yet on where this will happen. Where will the Israeli hostages come out of?

Do they have to go out through Egypt and Rafah? Can they come out through the Erez border crossing right into Israel or through the Nitzana crossing, which is at the intersection of Israel, Gaza, and Egypt? We don't know that yet. That will have to be figured out.

It's also worth noting that on the other side of this -- the Palestinian prisoners released -- they are all from the occupied West Bank in Jerusalem so, likely, they will come out and go straight home when they're released.

COLLINS: And so, what do we know about these Palestinian prisoners? I mean, there is a history of these exchanges happening before. We all saw it with Gilad Shalit, of course, an IDF soldier who was held for several years. But what do we know about who is on the table because there is this list of 300 names that Israel has put out there now?

LIEBERMANN: And it's worth noting that list of 300 names strongly suggests that Israel is preparing for the possibility that it's not just the first 150 -- that's there's a continuation of prisoners released in exchange for more Israeli hostages released.

We've had a chance to go through the list. Many are, first, young men between the ages of 16 and 18. There are some as young as 14. There are very few women on the list. We went through it and there's 33.

It also lists the charges they are being held for. These are, here, considered relatively minor charges. Support for a terror organization. Throwing stones. Throwing Molativ cocktails. Illegal transfer of weapons. So there's nobody here who has been convicted of murder on the list.

[07:40:03]

In terms of what organizations they belong to Israel lists that as well. There are some who belong to Hamas; Islamic Jihad; PFLP, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine. But there are none -- there are some who don't have an organization listed with them.

So that's the beginning of the possibilities here. We don't know who on the list will come out.

COLLINS: You also mentioned the fact that there are 300 names on that list. What we know about part of this initial deal is 150 names. You are saying it suggests Israel could be prepared for more.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has said that for every additional 10 hostages that are released, there will be one more day in the pause in fighting. Right now, it's about four days.

I mean, we don't even know anything about the condition of these hostages -- whether they're all alive. I mean, we don't even know how much longer Hamas could extend this for -- how many more hostages they have to release.

LIEBERMANN: We do know the first 50 are alive. We've heard that from officials we've spoken with. We don't know the condition of all of them. We know the IDF has said some hostages were killed in Gaza. So that's very much an open question.

And the last point I'll make quickly, Kaitlan, is Hamas is likely to demand a much higher cost for the soldiers that are hostage -- not just the women and children.

COLLINS: And we know there are women soldiers who are being held.

Oren Liebermann, all right. We'll continue to check back in with you.

Erica, obviously, still a lot of questions of what this could look like, though we do know it is slated to start here in Israel tomorrow.

HILL: Ah, the waiting -- the official waiting begins. Kaitlan, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, the families of those hostages being held now by Hamas -- they are waiting, right -- as Kaitlan just said, set to begin tomorrow morning -- and that's when they will perhaps learn whether their loved ones will be among the 50 people set to be freed.

One of those family members who is anxiously waiting for any information is Gili Roman. He says his sister Yarden Roman-Gat was abducted along with her husband and their 3-year-old daughter. They had been visiting her in-laws at a kibbutz near the Gaza border.

Gili says the family managed to break away from the terrorists but then they were separated once again. He says only his sister's husband and daughter ultimately escaped after they hid in the woods for hours.

Gili is with us again this morning. It's good to have you back with us. You and I last spoke I guess about three weeks ago.

How are you doing this morning knowing that in a matter of hours, the first 50 hostages are set to be released?

GILI ROMAN, SISTER HELD CAPTIVE BY HAMAS (via Webex by Cisco): Good morning. And first of all, it is a good morning. It's a more optimistic morning.

And we are thrilled to know that maybe tomorrow we are going to see people here with us again -- not necessarily my sister, but it's important to state that every life that can be saved, every child, every mother, and every woman that can come back to safety here with us is very moving and it will be a very happy moment.

But as you said, we are also anxious to see whether, personally, my sister and also her sister-in-law Carmel, who is a hostage as well, will be released along with the women.

HILL: Have you had any contact since this -- since this deal was announced from officials -- from Israeli government officials?

ROMAN: We have the officers that are communicating with us along the way. They also had a formal conversation with me this morning but it was more or less along the lines of the -- of presenting the deal that we all know. HILL: Um-hum.

ROMAN: And so we don't have additional information.

HILL: So no indication for you as of this morning that Yarden may be among those first 50?

ROMAN: No. I think that, first of all, it will be a daily list.

HILL: Right.

ROMAN: So every day, I think more families will be informed. And I don't think that any family has been informed so far. It is not us.

HILL: You have been so hopeful. You have been out there in front. After we spoke last time, you had just come up from Washington, D.C. where you met with U.S. lawmakers.

As I understand it, you were in that rather contentious meeting just a few days ago with cabinet officials in Israel. After that meeting, our colleague Oren Liebermann spoke with a number of families who talked about the frustration that everyone felt.

Were you surprised on the heels of that at how quickly this changed and that there was actually a deal?

ROMAN: Well, actually, I did not share this frustration. We had a humiliated part in the entrance to the meeting, but the meeting -- everything was hopeful.

I personally asked directly the prime minister if he is willing and ready for humanitarian pauses and hold back the war for a while in order to release hostages, and he clearly said yes. And they were seemed all aligned with this message.

[07:45:05]

So I actually went out of this meeting more hopeful and it seems that a deal is on the breakthrough, so I was not surprised.

HILL: And are you hopeful that this pause continues beyond these initial few days, which could ultimately mean, to your point, more hostages be released?

ROMAN: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

It's not in our hands. It's in the hands of Hamas initially. They need to deliver more hostages. They claim that they don't know where they are. It might take time to find them. And, of course, we expect as many as possible. And if it will take more days of pauses I think that is completely in order, and we expect to see that. It will have a longer pause that is only a positive sign of more life that can be saved.

HILL: As we've seen this list that's been released of the prisoners who will be released in exchange for the hostages, is there anything that gives you pause or concern there?

ROMAN: No -- no specific concern. Overall, as I said, we think that this is the right deal. And this is a promising deal personally, but also nationally, and I think also in a human aspect. So -- and I don't have specific concerns.

HILL: Gili, I really appreciate you joining us this morning and I hope that we are talking again soon with even more news for you and your family. Thank you.

ROMAN: I really hope so. And let's all stay hopeful and determined until the last person that will be back with us.

HARLOW: Well, as part of the hostage deal, Israel and Hamas have agreed to a 4-day pause in fighting. That could be extended one day for every 10 additional hostages released.

This comes as some more Democrats on Capitol Hill are calling for a longer-term ceasefire -- one of them, Congressman Jonathan Jackson. We'll ask him about that and the new deal ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:50:28]

HARLOW: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu making it clear that Israel's war against Hamas will continue after a brief pause to bring some hostages home -- his vow -- likely to frustrate American lawmakers, some of whom have expressed concern over the way Israel has conducted operations in Gaza.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): And the way they are conducting this campaign, both by denying humanitarian aid, by and large, and bombing that takes out a whole lot more civilians and men, women, and children than it does Hamas fighters is doing not just damage obviously -- clearly, damage to the Palestinian people who are hit and killed and injured, but also to Israel's reservoir of goodwill that is part of what creates security for Israel in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was Democratic Sen. Jeff Merkley who, this week, called for an unconditional ceasefire.

Joining us now is another Democrat calling for a ceasefire. He was one of the original co-sponsors of the ceasefire Now resolution, Congressman Jonathan Jackson of Illinois. He also sits on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Thank you very much for being with us.

And obviously, we want to start with the breaking news -- the deal. Is this a good deal? REP. JONATHAN JACKSON (D-IL): Absolutely. Families are coming back together and I stand on the side of the Israeli and the Palestinian families that are being reunited. We have to give a tremendous thank you to the Qatari government that has been leading this negotiation.

And I first heard mention of this October 9, two days after this horrific attack in Israel. And so, anything that we can do to bring families back together -- the pause, the peace, the cessation of the violence, the humanitarian assistance that's now being expedited is so -- is so crucial.

And let us continue to work for all the families to be reunited. We will not stop.

HARLOW: This is a pause. This is not a ceasefire. You want a ceasefire. President Biden laid out why he does support one in his op- ed a couple of days ago, writing, quote, "Hamas is saying a ceasefire is not peace." Quote, "To Hamas' members, every ceasefire is time they exploit to rebuild their stockpile of rockets."

Are you disappointed that President Biden does not support a ceasefire?

JACKSON: Well, I mean, you can call it a ceasefire. You can call it pause. I mean, those are words of semantics and posturing. But no bombs are being dropped today. A thousand bombs were being dropped, I believe, a day for the last seven or eight weeks now.

The land in northern Gaza is toxic so people aren't going to be able to go back there and rebuild. The land is now toxic. The remediation to remove all that from the land and people taken off their land unnecessarily.

This was an Israeli Defense Force. We had agreed there was a failure. Their guards were down for an hour and a half under Prime Minister Netanyahu when this attack had taken place.

And now, I don't want this to become a diversion. I want us to get back to the table and make sure that we have equal parts of diplomacy with Israeli Defense and continue this dialogue.

When this attack had taken place on October 7, there was not a confirmed ambassador from the United States to the country of Israel. There was not a confirmed ambassador from the United States to Egypt. So then to say we are passing out flyers to a million or a million and a half people to flee, that was absolutely --

HARLOW: But --

JACKSON: -- atrocious.

Beg your pardon?

HARLOW: Congressman, those who oppose a ceasefire and echo what the president said there that look, Hamas has in its charter the annihilation of Israel. And if it is not dealt with and you have a ceasefire now, how can the Israeli people feel protected?

I wonder what you say to that criticism?

JACKSON: Well, I am all for Israeli defense and their protection. People should not live in fear and in terror. But this is also an occupied piece of land. There is no way to get missiles and guns in there for -- by sea, by air, and certainly not by land. And so, you know where they are. Now, the question is how to get them out.

HARLOW: Well -- but, Congressman, how do you think they got --

JACKSON: Think about -- think about what we've learned from history.

HARLOW: Hold on, Congressman. How do you think they got all of those weapons?

[07:55:02]

JACKSON: Of course, they had -- they had to come in through their Egyptian area where we did not have a dialogue. We did not have a confirmed ambassador. And that was before this -- before the Israeli Defense Force is now -- has put a complete barricade around the area so they're not being repopulated.

HARLOW: But you think that stops Iran, for example, from continuing to support Hamas in this way?

JACKSON: Well, let's be clear on what is Hamas. Hamas is also known in Arabic as its Islamic resistance organization. Hamas is not a standing army as in the sense of they have a defense headquarters. This is a spirit of a lot of people and we have to deal with the ideology --

HARLOW: Do you not --

JACKSON: -- of Hamas. How do we deal with the ideology of Hamas is what we have to get to.

HARLOW: Congressman, to be clear, do you believe Hamas is a terror organization as it is designated by the United States?

JACKSON: Yes.

HARLOW: OK.

JACKSON: Hamas is a terrorist organization.

HARLOW: So then, what are you saying with that answer? And you agree that they carried out this brutal massacre of 1,200 Israelis on October 7, yes, and took hundreds hostage?

JACKSON: I'm saying there is not one place and one time where you can find these persons. That we have to lead this with intelligence. How do we find them? Who are the perpetrators of the violence?

I was in Israel in September and the -- HARLOW: Um-hum, and you met with Netanyahu.

JACKSON: Yes, we did. And I was there specifically -- I wanted to ask him a question about the reciprocal visa waiver program. And this is an occupied area because you have to go through checkpoints. Many of my constituents here in the first district were not able to go freely back and forth from Chicago back to their homeland in Palestine. And he did not answer the question I asked. He had people --

HARLOW: OK.

JACKSON: -- in the ministry to answer it.

HARLOW: OK. We are out of time. You should come back and continue this discussion.

JACKSON: Oh.

HARLOW: But just to be clear, Congressman, do you believe then that Hamas should be allowed to continue governing Gaza after this -- following these attacks?

JACKSON: Absolutely not.

HARLOW: OK.

JACKSON: But I think we should also lay out what is the development plan. What is the peace process? What does a two-state solution look like? Netanyahu has been a problem and he's an ongoing problem. And we should also talk about what does this -- what does this negotiation look like after Netanyahu is not the head of leading this defense force.

HARLOW: If that is the case going forward.

Congressman Jonathan Jackson, please do come back. Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you.

HILL: A lot to follow up on there and I'm glad you followed up on a number of those points. So many questions this morning.

She's just three years old. So much focus on Abigail Edan being held by Hamas. Hopes this morning that perhaps in a matter of hours, she may be among the first 50 hostages released. Abigail's family joins us ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)