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Man Arrested After Three Palestinian Students Shot In Vermont; Source: Slight Issue Could Delay Today's Hostage Release; NYT: Trump Has "Casually Weighed Pros And Cons" Of VPs. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired November 27, 2023 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: They were walking along a street on Saturday night when police say a man came up to them and shot them without saying a word.
Polo Sandoval is covering it all live in Burlington, Vermont this morning. And a really significant development that there has been this arrest. What more do you know?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Poppy, when you hear that audio it really is just chilling to think that shooting happened on what is actually just a tranquil street. This morning, joggers are out, people are walking their dogs, and to know that just two days ago those three Palestinian-American students were on their way to dinner when police say that local man with a handgun shot three of them. One of them in critical condition and two of them in stable condition at last check.
Some of the organizers -- some of the organizations, I should say, that are close to the families have identified those three 20-year- olds as Tahseen Ali Ahmad, Kinnan Abdelhamid, and that is Hisham Awartani that you see on the right corner of that -- of that group photo.
That photo actually taken just moments before Saturday's shooting and in it you can see that they are wearing that Keffiyeh -- that traditional scarf that is often worn as a sign of solidarity with Palestine. And that is why an attorney representing the families of these young men believes that this is a hate crime. The local authorities saying they're not quite ready to go there quite yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABED AYOUB, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIMS' FAMILIES: The suspect walked up to them and shot them. They weren't robbed. They weren't mugged. It was a targeted -- a targeted shooting and a targeted crime. And they were wearing the Keffiyeh -- very symbolic of the Palestinian cause in culture and history. Their identity played a role in them being targeted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Burlington's mayor speaking over the weekend saying that the -- just the mere possibility that this may have been a hate crime is absolutely chilling. And that's why local police again are heading this investigation at this point with support from federal authorities -- are making that a priority.
Also, the American Jewish Committee quiet vocal over the weekend not only condemning this attack but also urging authorities to investigate this as a hate crime as well, Poppy.
HARLOW: Polo, before you go, how are they doing? I know they're in the hospital being treated but do we know their condition this morning -- the three of them?
SANDOVAL: Yeah. Yeah, they're in a hospital not far from where I'm standing here. Now, again, we do know that at least one of them is still in critical condition.
I have a little bit more to share though about the family of one of those young men -- the gentleman that you saw on the righthand corner there in that group photo. Awartani, we're told -- there's a photo that was shared with CNN by his family. It shows him in relatively good spirits. However, a source close to the mother of this young man telling our colleague Khalil Abdallah that he is immobilized, which you can see in this photo. The doctors are also working -- they have been working around the clock to restore blood flow to his spine.
Another source close to his family saying that he has one of the bullets that's actually lodged in his spine.
HARLOW: Oh.
SANDOVAL: So there's still a lot of uncertainty about the long road to recovery that he faces.
And we also know that the family members of at least two of those three young men -- they are trying to make their way here from the Middle East to support their children.
HARLOW: Of course, they are.
Polo, thank you for the update this morning -- Phil.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Israel and Hamas signaling they are both open to extending a temporary truce that is set to expire today, but a source tells CNN there is a slight issue with the list of hostages and prisoners that could delay today's swap. Could a deal be worked out? We're going to discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:37:22]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Thirteen-year-old Hila Rotem reuniting with her uncle after she was released from Gaza Saturday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Look at this right here -- the moment 13-year-old Hila Rotem was reunited with her uncle after she was released from Gaza Saturday. Israeli officials were expecting Hila's mother to be freed with her but she was not on the list. And the IDF says that is a violation of the agreement to keep families together.
And today is the final day, so far, of this four-day truce between Israel and Hamas. Sources tell CNN there is a slight issue with the list of hostages and Palestinian prisoners set to be released today and that could delay the swap that is happening -- supposed to happen in just a couple of hours.
With us now is Christopher O'Leary, the former U.S. government director of hostage recovery. Thank you very much for being with us this morning.
The question is does this get extended? And we just had a representative from the IDF on who told us look, there are about 200 more hostages. This could last -- the truce -- 20 more days. You said something on CNN yesterday that was interesting -- that would not make sense for Israel.
CHRISTOPHER O'LEARY, FORMER U.S. GOVERNMENT DIRECTOR OF HOSTAGE RECOVERY: It doesn't make sense for Israel and it certainly doesn't make sense for Hamas. I think it's extremely unlikely that this goes 20 more days. Once Hamas loses all of the hostages they lose power, they lose leverage, they lose protection.
And historically speaking, Egypt actually did it. They flooded all the tunnels. Israel will do the same thing. They will go in there heavy- handed and they will continue to dismantle Hamas.
From Israel's side, they need to defeat Hamas for multiple reasons and I highlighted somebody I was speaking with yesterday. This is the second-most horrific terrorist attack, second only to 9/11, in the modern era. To ask Israel to ignore that and just move on is illogical, number one.
And number two, we went into Afghanistan, which is on the other side of the world. This is, you know, having Hamas in Connecticut -- you know, right outside of New York. And that's what we're talking about. They have to go after Hamas and they have to dismantle them.
But the third part of that is the best way to recover the IDF soldiers who Hamas will hold long-term is to go in militarily but not in the manner of which they've done it before. They should pivot to a counterterrorism-focused strategy, which is direct action precision raids by special operations forces. They'll gather more intelligence that way. They'll take detainees who you can interview.
It will also limit the collateral damage and protect the hostages from possibly being wounded themselves from 2,000-pound bombs leveling cities. It will also bring the international community back on Israel's side.
[07:40:05]
This was a just war for Israel but they needed to be proportional in their response -- what they have not been, at least seeing the images.
MATTINGLY: Before we get more on the military operation, the Americans. We just spoke with John Kirby, from the White House, talking about how they know that there are two women. They are not sure if they're going to be on the list today. The president made a very personal issue of getting Abigail Edan, the 4-year-old, out. She was released.
Is there incentive for Hamas to hold onto the American prisoners? They believe there's at least nine more at this point.
O'LEARY: Yeah -- so, yes. Americans are worth more. We are inextricably connected to Israel, so they have more leverage if they hold Americans. But they have released women and children that were American, so it's indicative of the fact that they are willing to release some Americans.
But the IDF members -- you know, there's a young man who graduated from high school last spring in New Jersey and joined the IDF.
HARLOW: Yeah.
O'LEARY: He would be held long-term unless there's another tactic to go after and recover him.
HARLOW: Yeah.
You mentioned Afghanistan just a moment ago. And President Biden has been asking Benjamin Netanyahu to learn from some mistakes the U.S. has made.
I thought Sen. Chris Murphy, yesterday, brought up a really interesting point about what does an actual defeat of Hamas look like and how do you successfully do that, particularly when it comes to the ideology. Listen to what he said. I want your thoughts on this. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Ultimately, Hamas will get stronger, not weaker, in the long run, if all of this civilian death allows them to recruit more effectively and ably inside Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: You just talked about proportionality.
O'LEARY: So I think he's right but he's -- Hamas also gets stronger and more emboldened if the pressure on Israel to just pivot to a peace agreement happens.
HARLOW: Then what weakens Hamas? O'LEARY: What weakens Hamas is counterterrorism raids. The -- if you look at what the United States did in Iraq going after Abu Musab al- Zarqawi and al Qaeda in Iraq --
HARLOW: Yeah.
O'LEARY: -- which was perfected by JSOC and the interagency doing precision raids. Find, fix, finish, exploit, and analyze -- that's the targeting cycle. You do that almost every night and that's how you go after a network. It also prevents a Russian tactic of going into Grozny in Chechnya, which is what Gaza City looks like right now.
MATTINGLY: And I think you've heard U.S. military leaders can push for exactly that. We'll have to wait and see.
Chris O'Leary, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
HARLOW: Thanks.
MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, Israeli officials met with Elon Musk after he shared an antisemitic conspiracy theory on X. Their message to the tech billionaire -- that's ahead.
HARLOW: Also, Chris Christie vowing to stay in the presidential race until the Republican convention. This is despite the commanding lead that Trump still has. Now there's some speculation about Trump's potential running mate. We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:46:45]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You are in this race through the New Hampshire primary?
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I expect to be in this race through to the convention, Dana. And so, yes, absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: That was Chris Christie telling CNN he plans to stay in the GOP primary race through next summer's convention and that he's not interested in consolidating support with Nikki Haley in order to challenge the very clear frontrunner, Donald Trump.
Meanwhile, the Republican frontrunner was in Haley's home state of South Carolina at the Palmetto Bowl, the annual rivalry match-up between the University of South Carolina and Clemson.
One Republican whose support Trump should not rely on -- well, that would be retiring Colorado Congressman Ken Buck. He is calling out his colleagues who he says are, quote, "lying to America." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): Everybody who thinks that the election was stolen or talks about the election being stolen is lying to America. That's everyone that is -- that is making that argument. Everyone who makes the argument that January 6 was an unguided tour of the Capitol is lying to America.
I hope all of my Republican colleagues become more clear and recognize the fact that Joe Biden is an existential threat to this country and we need to defeat him. And we do that with someone who is not lying to the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Joining us now is New York Times political correspondent, Michael Bender. He is also the author of The New York Times best- seller "Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost."
Bender -- I can call you by your last name. We're both Buckeyes. It's been a rough couple of days for us.
To start with, what you heard from Ken Buck right there -- retiring congressman. Retiring congressmen tend to be a little bit more candid perhaps than the sitting Republican congressmen.
Do you think that view of things holds much sway, if any, over the Republican primary electorate?
MICHAEL BENDER, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "FRANKLY, WE DID WIN THIS ELECTION: THE INSIDE STORY OF HOW TRUMP LOST": Well, it doesn't really seem to be, so far. I mean, everything we've seen, Trump's lead has expanded over the past 12 months as the felony charges have accumulated, right? I mean, there's 91 felony charges, the bulk of which are -- have to do with his behavior and his -- after the election and his time at the end of -- end of his term. And those have had little effect so far.
I mean, you've hinted -- you guys have hinted at it a little bit this morning about the field has narrowed. So we'll see for sure in these next couple of few months as we get into Iowa, and New Hampshire, and South Carolina. But right now, really, loyalty to Trump seems to be the real litmus test inside the Republican Party.
MATTINGLY: It's such a great point and it also underscores why your story over the weekend was so important. Oftentimes, before Iowa, if you're talking about vice presidential sweepstakes people are dismissing you, saying you're just looking for clickbait. You just want to throw some names around -- a Washington parlor game. Your story is not that. When Trump is ahead by this much, this matters.
I want to go through kind of the categories you split things off into in a second. But to start with, as you were reporting out this story, how real do you think the search is? Without giving any names, the search is right now --
BENDER: Sure.
MATTINGLY: -- within the Trump campaign.
BENDER: I would describe it as informal for a couple of reasons. One is the thing that -- you know, is the point you just mentioned, which is that there has not been one single primary vote cast in this race yet. All we have are public opinion polls to go on. So the campaign is very careful not to have a formal process to start vetting candidates.
[07:50:11]
And the second reason for that is Trump's kind of superstition here. He very much does not want to get the cart in front of the horse in some of the specifics when it comes to a second term, including his seeking and vetting a running mate.
That said, Trump sees the polls, we know, because he talks about them all of the time. And he's started -- again, what I describe in this piece as informal conversations -- batting names around with some advisers, and some advisers can't help but hear him talk about certain members of the Republican Party in the context of a potential vice presidential pick.
MATTINGLY: And, of course, those advisers then go to Michael Bender of The New York Times, which I think informed your story, which really kind of splits things into four categories. I want to walk people through them right now.
You want to start with the political veterans. You have people like Sen. Tim Scott who just dropped out of the Republican primary. Nikki Haley who has kind of consolidated the number-two position. Senator Tom Cotton, Marco Rubio, Mike Pompeo. What should people know about this group, Mike?
BENDER: Well, these -- this is a group that is going to be -- add some heft to the ticket. Some -- one of the sort of eye tests for the American public when it comes to a vice presidential pick is can they imagine that person taking over in the White House? Usually, some kind of experience adds to that -- enhances that viewpoint.
I think Marco Rubio is someone who has kind of flown under the radar here. He's someone who has been very close to Trump kind of quietly over the years.
And the -- obviously, Nikki Haley is running against Trump right now and does seem to be the -- you know, have the momentum as the main rival.
I would just say that Mike Pence endorsed Ted Cruz in 2016, who is Trump's main rival. That didn't hurt him in the end. But we'll have to see how this all plays out with Haley and Trump.
MATTINGLY: What about the loyalists? I think this is something that everybody pays attention to because Trump views loyalty. You've got J.D. Vance --
BENDER: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: -- Sarah Huckabee Sanders; Kristi Noem; John Ratcliffe, the former DNI; Kari Lake; Vivek Ramaswamy. What do you see out of this?
BENDER: Well, I think the important thing to think about this group is in years past and sort of the pre-Trump era of American presidential politics, we've sort of looked at vice presidential picks as what state can they bring? Someone who is in a battleground state or adds some -- an East Coast candidate who can bring in the south, or something like that.
That is not necessarily the way Trump is thinking about this. For one, there's little evidence that there is -- there is much political sway that home state voters will support a ticket just because of the vice presidential ticket -- because of the vice presidential pick.
The thing that is more important to Trump is someone who can be 100 percent behind him and supportive all the time. These -- all these folks fall into that category.
MATTINGLY: I want to combine the last two groups because I think they do --
BENDER: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: -- kind of thread together -- and that is, to start with, the up-and-comers. People like Byron Donalds, Elise Stefanik, Tudor Dixon, Nancy Mace, Wesley Hunt in the Congress. And also wildcards. People like Tucker Carlson --
BENDER: Um-hum.
MATTINGLY: -- and Sen. Rick Scott, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Should people view these as actual serious candidates?
BENDER: Well, you know, there is some seriousness to it -- yeah. I mean, for one, we know that Trump has talked to people about adding Tucker Carlson to the ticket. Now again, contrast that with Tucker Carlson has never run for anything before but he is popular within the base. He is someone that has a good relationship with Trump.
And this is kind of the x-factor here when you are talking about someone like Donald Trump and who they could pick. It's a pretty wide field as far as possibilities for him and he does not want to be boxed in when it comes to his potential choices.
MATTINGLY: Mike Bender, New York Times. We appreciate you, as always. Thanks, my friend.
BENDER: Nice to see you, Phil.
HARLOW: Really interesting.
All right. Congressman George Santos -- he could face a vote for expulsion this week as the House comes back in session. We have his reaction to that vote ahead.
MATTINGLY: And it's the final day of the four-day truce between Israel and Hamas. Both sides signaling they are interested in an extension. The source tells CNN there's a slight issue with the list of hostages and Palestinian prisoners set to be released that could delay today's stop. We're going to -- swap. We're going to have the latest next.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:58:37]
MATTINGLY: Well, embattled Congressman George Santos could face an expulsion vote this week when the House returns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): I know I'm going to get expelled when this expulsion resolution goes to the floor because people are so quick to judge. You want to expel Me? I'll wear it like a badge of honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: That is one approach.
Expulsion is extremely rare and requires a two-thirds majority vote. So far, 13 Republican lawmakers have said they support expelling Santos since the Ethics Committee released a scathing report saying there was, quote, "substantial evidence" he violated federal law. The report alleges Santos used large sums of campaign money to pay for personal expenses, including Botox, luxury goods, and an OnlyFans account.
Santos has declined to address the specific allegations, calling them, quote, "slanderous." He's planning to hold a news conference in front of the Capitol on Thursday.
HARLOW: Today, the biggest online shopping day of the year. Americans expected to shell out a record $12 billion online. That is more than -- five percent more than last year, according to Abode Analytics. That is also if, by the way, emerging signs of some consumer stress don't hurt those sales.
To lure shoppers, retailers are expected to offer deep discounts of up to 35 percent online. Big bargains expected on toys, apparel, electronics.
Abode also reports Black Friday online sales were strong, jumping 7 1/2 percent from last year to a record $9.8 billion. In-store sales only up about one percent. That's not adjusted for inflation, though, according to Mastercard.
And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.
