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Two American Women Not Among Freed Hostages; Juliette Touma is Interviewed about Aid to Gaza; 2024 Presidential Race Headlines. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 28, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:37]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Nine Americans still held in Gaza this morning. And the White House had expected, you'll remember, that two women on that list would be released as part of the original four-day truce agreement. That did not happen. And the White House says it does not believe that they were intentionally held back but they didn't elaborate on that.

Also, the father of one of those women, Liat Beinin, still has hope now that the pause has been extended for two days.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEHUDA BEININ, AMERICAN DAUGHTER LIAT BEININ KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS: Obviously I'm disappointed but we remain optimistic and hopeful that her release will come in the - in the next two days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All this comes as the administration is under pressure to help get all the hostages back home and back a longer pause in the fighting. Activists, including actress Cynthia Nixon, rallied outside the White House Monday, announcing the start of a hunger strike.

Joining us now, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier and CNN political commentator and Spectrum News political anchor Errol Louis.

Kim, I want to start with you on this because in talking to administration officials, they put forward the idea that, look, without the president, without his approach up to this point over the course of the last seven weeks there would be no four to five to six- day pause, there would be no hostages coming home, and yet the political pressure domestically is immense. Do you kind of believe their position here?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, there is a certain amount of dissonance in that because it's pretty amazing that this particular Israeli government agreed to a pause at all. And I think that only came thanks to President Biden going there in person shortly after the October 7th attacks and giving Israel a bear hug, as the country has talked about since then. He built up a lot of political capital with Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister. And that, together with the U.S. relationship with interlocutors like Qatar, has allowed the communication to stay open with Hamas for this pause.

Then again, we always have to remember, Hamas took the hostages to create just a situation like this, where Hamas is essentially in the driver's seat.

[06:35:02]

HARLOW: Errol, you have said, look, Israel has no choice but to continue this. I think the question is how they continue it. That's the concern especially among a number of Democrats in Congress. That's why the IDF went to speak with Senate Democrats. But do you believe that the White House will change its public tone and posture on how Israel is conducting this?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the public tone is going to remain what it's been, which is cautious support. Full throated support, but also caution and a word of caution to try and sort of hold back what they know is coming. And make no mistake about it, what is coming is a resumed attack on the leadership --

HARLOW: A stronger one according to the Israeli defense minister.

LOUIS: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean we -- we keep forgetting - I've been reading a lot of the Israeli press. You look at "Times of Israel," "Jerusalem Post," "Hirets" (ph). This has been so traumatic for that society. The worst one-day attack, you know -- the violence that happened. The worst in 75 years. This is their 9/11. This is their Pearl Harbor. They keep saying that. I don't know if we're fully absorbing it here. It's very tempting here, thousands of miles away, to sort of, you know, it's a Christmas miracle, a Hanukkah miracle, you know, all the families are coming back and look at the cute dog and so forth and so on. It's not like that at all. Unless they destroy the infrastructure of Hamas and kill the leadership, kill, literally kill the leadership, and prevent the possibility of such a repeat of such an attack, they've done nothing.

And Israeli society in every poll that I've looked at, I mean, we're talking about 65, 75, 80 percent are unified on that. There's a lot of dissension within Israel on a lot of different issues, but on this, they are 100 percent solid. And nothing from the White House or anywhere else I think is going to change that.

MATTINGLY: Kim, to that point, and I think this feeds into a really important thing that's happening behind the scenes right now, U.S. officials I've heard from say, in the midst of this pause they are having intensive discussions about what's next in the military operation, which will take place in the south, where more than a million refugees have fled over the course of the last seven weeks. What impact do you think the U.S. can have on those operations and that planning? DOZIER: Yes. Right now U.S. officials have been messaging that they

need to see a different kind of operation in the south than they saw in the north. And according to U.S. officials who briefed reporters last night, they think the message is getting through, that the next stage we'll see is more small operations, more targeted and focused raids through the south, as opposed to these big military sweeps that smash through infrastructure and as many air attacks as we've seen in the past.

So, it's because the south is even more densely packed, especially since there are 1.7 million displaced Palestinians packed into the south, Israel had proposed to have them move from one place to a next as it did its operations. And the White House said, no, that's simply not acceptable. You can't keep moving these people around and expect them to get to safety in time.

HARLOW: What about -- just back to this interesting "Punch Bowl" reporting that members of the IDF, Errol, went to Senate Democrats and met with - met with them yesterday because there are big concerns about should there be conditions on aid to Israel, on this package that the president has proposed. Most Democratic senators, we hear some now coming out and saying there should be. It's interesting that Ben Cardin, who, obviously, is the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has said, I don't think there needs to be conditionality. And he's said that now twice.

LOUIS: Yes.

HARLOW: How do you explain this divide?

LOUIS: Yes. Well, I mean, look, there - there are those who are feeling heat from their constituents and -- because so much of this is playing out in the media. They're - they're worried that this is going to look awful and that they're going to seen as having given a blank check to Israel. And so they want to start bringing about conditions.

The IDF is there to tell them, it's like, OK, you want to get involved, let's talk about it. Let me show you what it looks like on the ground. If you want to start putting in conditions, you want to start making strategy, you want to make tactical considerations about this very difficult situation, let me show you what we're up against. And I think that will probably change the conversation.

HARLOW: You do. You think it will make a difference?

LOUIS: It would have to if they're paying attention, absolutely. Absolutely.

HARLOW: OK. Thank you, Errol.

Kim Dozier, thank you very, very much.

Errol, stick around. We'll see you again in a couple of minutes.

The call to repeal and replace Obamacare is back on the campaign trail. How the Biden administration is responding to Donald Trump's call to ditch it again.

MATTINGLY: And, in just a few minutes, the first interview with Thomas Hand, who thought Hamas had killed his daughter Emily. He waited 50 days for the hug you're looking at right now. You'll find out how he felt to hold Emily again.

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THOMAS HAND, FATHER OF FREED HOSTAGE EMILY HAND: She told me she was surprised to see me at the handover. She said, in whisper, she said, I thought - I thought you were captive. I thought you were one of the kidnapped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[06:44:15]

MATTINGLY: New this morning, the U.S. military says it's providing more humanitarian relief for Gaza. Senior administration officials telling CNN the first of three plane loads of aid will arrive today in Egypt. The United Nations will then distribute that aid in Gaza. Now, it is expected to include medical supplies, food and much needed weather gear for civilians. We're told this delivery is not linked to the current pause in fighting and will continue even when that fighting picks back up.

But the initial four-day truce and two-day extension have allowed for some relief to flow into Gaza, but aid groups warn it's still not nearly enough for the more than 1 million displaced people.

Joining us now is Juliette Touma, the director of communications for the U.N. Agency for Palestinian Refugees. She was in Gaza last week.

Juliette, thank you for your time.

I want to start with the aid that the U.S. officials are talking about, not just the three plane loads, but they've been talking about, since the truce began, I think more than 800 trucks of aid have entered Gaza.

[06:45:10]

There's been a surge of sorts. What kind of effect does that have given the scale of the need?

JULIETTE TOUMA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, U.N. AGENCY FOR PALESTINIAN REFUGEES: Yes, thanks for having me.

We have certainly seen an increase in the number of aid trucks that have been coming into the Gaza Strip. And that is very welcome. We've also had a breakthrough at UNRWA where we were finally able to deliver aid trucks, humanitarian aid trucks to the shelters in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. So, that is also very good. And I think most importantly, for people in Gaza, is the respite and the few days of calm that they've had after 50 days of brutal, brutal war.

MATTINGLY: Juliette, you were in Gaza last week. It's almost -- you look at the pictures and it's almost impossible to understand just looking at pictures what that must be like. In your experience, in the work that you do, is there anything comparable to the scale of this humanitarian crisis?

TOUMA: This is unprecedented. I have been serving with the United Nations for 20 years now. And I have covered several conflict zones. This is unprecedented in terms of the volume of the displacement. This is the largest displacement of the Palestinians since 1948. The number of colleagues that were killed, we have lost 108 UNRWA colleagues during this war. The 1 million people, 1 million people taking shelter in UNRWA facilities, the siege that has been very tight and the level of destruction is just mind boggling.

MATTINGLY: To that point, you know, we talk about a million -- 1.7 million people have moved south. They were asked to move south. They have moved south. But for your capabilities, that many people moving into your camps, your facilities, what does that mean? What does that look like?

TOUMA: So, just to be accurate, we are hosting right now more than 1 million people in our facilities. These are not camps. They used to be mainly schools for children, but since the war began, we had to, unfortunately, close these schools down and turn them into shelters.

I visited one of those shelters in the south of the Gaza Strip. Very overcrowded. People continue to come into these shelters. They said to us, we don't need food or weather, just protect us. So, people come to U.N. shelters because they are in search of safety and protection.

However, note that since the war began, even those UNRWA facilities have not been spared. Nearly 80 incidents have been recorded where UNRWA facilities, including those were sheltering Palestinian families, were themselves impacted.

MATTINGLY: It's an important clarification. I appreciate you making it. And you also noted the 108 colleagues of yours that have lost their lives.

Before I let you go, the immediate needs, I know they are immense. What should people know about what you need on the ground now?

TOUMA: We're talking about people who have lost everything overnight. And so right now they need everything. And the weather is - is getting much, much worse. It's - it was very cold when I was in Gaza last week. And the rain is here. And so, winter clothes, blankets, and, of course, food and water and hygiene items so that people can wash their hands, can stay clean. And fuel. Fuel is really absolutely fundamental. Regular shipments of fuel to keep the humanitarian operation running in the Gaza Strip.

MATTINGLY: Juliette Touma, we appreciate your work. We also appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

TOUMA: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, first on CNN, Clarissa Ward's interview with the father of -- look at her there -- Emily Hand. The story that we've been telling you about for 50 plus days. She was released by Hamas. They were united. An you'll hear from her father, next.

MATTINGLY: And coming up live on CNN THIS MORNING, the mother of one of the Palestinian students shot in Vermont, Hasham Awartani, joins us live.

Stay with us.

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[06:53:29]

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NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chaos follows him. You know I'm right. Chaos follows him. We have too much division in this country, and too many threats around the world to be sitting in chaos once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is Nikki Haley criticizing Donald Trump during a campaign event in Bluffton, South Carolina, yesterday. In recent polls, Haley has climbed even with Ron DeSantis in Iowa. Of course, he's betting on Iowa. She's pulled ahead in New Hampshire and South Carolina, but so far nobody has been able to really put a dent in trump's sizable lead.

MATTINGLY: And that's notable because in just seven weeks the polls will start to matter less once Republican caucus goers actually have their say in Iowa, followed, of course, by the New Hampshire primaries just a week after that.

Joining us now, former Obama administration official Sarah Feinberg, CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon, and Errol Louis is back with us.

Sarah, we point to that sound. Now let's point to the spend. Nikki Haley and her outside groups have spent a significant amount of money. They have spent no money attacking Donald Trump. There's analysis of their ads and their campaign that they've been spending. I understand that you're trying to knock Ron DeSantis out. If you're not going after Donald Trump, what's the play here?

SARAH FEINBERG, FORMER NY STATE OFFICIAL AND FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes, that's right. And, you know, ultimately, look, momentum is such a great thing for a campaign, right? I'm sure that she and everyone around her is feeling so good. Every morning they're waking up, there's more and more momentum. That starts to slide at some point.

[06:55:00] It becomes a two-person race. And she's going to have to contend with the fact that she's telling folks one thing in New Hampshire, she's telling folks something else in Iowa. That's not going to match up pretty soon. She's going to --

HARLOW: Politicians never do that.

FEINBERG: And then -- so true. So true. This is the first time that's happened.

HARLOW: First time.

FEINBERG: So, we'll see what happens, right? Exactly. But at some point it's going to become a two-person race. Is it going to be Nikki Haley and Trump or is it going to be somebody else and Trump.

HARLOW: She had so many people there, guys, yesterday. It was like 2,500 people. This town hall sort of turned into a rally, if you will. But to your point about the strategy, here's what - let's just listen to what Karl Rove said he sees happening. Here it is. He was on Fox.

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KARL ROVE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: The first one is, Trump wins Iowa and he's got more than 50 percent of the vote. If that's the case against this field, it's going to be very problematic from then on. But I don't think that's likely.

More likely is Trump comes in first but under 50 percent and -- and with a strong second. If there's somebody who comes out of the pack and emerges as a strong second, as Gary Hart did in 1984 in the Democratic side, then we've got a horse race. I think that's the most likely outcome.

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HARLOW: Why are you shaking your head, Errol Louis?

LOUIS: President Hart would agree with that analysis. It's just -

FEINBERG: (INAUDIBLE).

LOUIS: This is - it's - it's - you know, look, it's not horseshoes, right? It's -- perceptions can matter. But it seems to me that whether Trump has 51 percent, 52 percent, 38 percent, if he's 20 to 30 points ahead of his next closest rival in heavily evangelical Iowa, he's done everything he needs to do. And he's - he'll have done it without a single debate. And then he'll move on.

He is on track to become the nominee period. The question is what everyone else does and why John doesn't understand that.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, no, it's -

MATTINGLY: Can I get in on this real quick because I actually want to do something different and take the other side. AVLON: Oh, great.

MATTINGLY: Despite our long-running bet.

AVLON: I like (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: And the steak dinner that I'm going to win from you, which is the idea here is, hold him under 50, become the clear number two, get a bounce in New Hampshire, the then everybody on that 60 percent of the non-Trump Republicans funnels into Nikki Haley and creates a totally different race.

AVLON: Correct. And Nikki Haley's home state, right? Lest we forget.

So, look, I mean the whole point - you know, I think the frustration with horse race politics around this stuff, and the polling and over indexing that, is that people haven't actually voted yet. Look, the fact that Kim Reynolds and Bob Vander Plaats, two big players, governor and evangelical leader in Iowa, backed Ron DeSantis is significant because what it really is, is looking for an alternative to Donald Trump. Whether DeSantis is the right vehicle for that, we'll see. He's got actually the most pressure. He's got to outperform in Iowa or he is toast.

Haley has been getting major momentum. And that's when all of a sudden you start to see the Republican field start to coalesce. And you look at, you know, "The Washington Post" and other polls have seen, it's basically a third, a third, and a third. A third of Republicans say they'll vote for Donald Trump no matter what, a third are persuadable, a third are opposed.

So - but, first of all, let people vote. Let's see how this actually plays out in reality, not in theory. Let's not over rely on the horse race because also let's not forget the stakes are enormously high, not just for the Republican Party, but for the entire republic.

HARLOW: Obamacare, Trump doesn't like it. Breaking news. And he is trying to, he said again, I'm going to seriously look at alternatives. What's interesting to me, Sarah, the Biden administration jumped on this and is -- knowing that president's popularity isn't high, they're going after policies that are pretty popular among Americans who depend on Obamacare at this point in time. Trump tried how many times to overturn this in the court. Never worked. And, by the way, never put out a viable alternative here.

FEINBERG: Right.

HARLOW: Successful strategy for the Biden team to do this?

FEINBERG: You know, look, I think they - they were probably right to jump on it right away when Trump started talking up, you know, I'm going to get rid of Obamacare. But, you know, as Biden always says, compare me to reality, don't compare me to a fantasy. And I think, you know, the closer we get to Election Day people are going to be thinking about Obamacare versus nothing. Well, Obamacare's a clear winner there, right? But Obamacare versus, hm, could there be an alternative? I think the Biden folks need to be going out there talk about not Obamacare that was passed years ago is perfect but, like, what can we add to it?

HARLOW: Oh, interesting.

FEINBERG: What else can we offer people. Medical billing transparency. You know, better options on doctors that are in network and out of network. You know, some - some - some way to address the fact that, like, I feel like I have good healthcare and every month I'm fighting with my insurance company. Every month. It's infuriating.

LOUIS: Obamacare takes its place now alongside Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security as things that the Democrats will always use to say, the Republicans want to take this away from you. You cannot trust them. Don't go any - don't go anywhere near them.

AVLON: Yes, and let's not also forget, the whole repeal and replace thing was a complete fraud because there was no replace. And so this becomes a real fundamental problems, not just because you're in a pursuit to taking something away, but that you go look back at all the fights around Obamacare and the death panel talked nonsense from a decade ago. And we see what was it about at the end of the day? Barack Obama and Democrats trying to expand people's access to health care.

[07:00:00]

Was that demonization and division worth it? No.

MATTINGLY: I thought we were going to have a lengthy debate about risk pools.

HARLOW: Oh, God, Mattingly.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE) it's not going to happen.

AVLON: We can do that later.