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CNN This Morning
Man Pleads Not Guilty In Palestinian Student Shootings; Sen. Mike Rounds (R-SD) On Border Demands That Could Sink Israel-Ukraine Aid; ABC News: Pence Told January 6 Special Counsel About Trump Warnings. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired November 28, 2023 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[07:30:10]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.
We are learning a lot more this morning about the shooting of three Palestinian college students in Burlington, Vermont. Two of those students do remain in the hospital; one with critical injuries to his spine. The police chief calls this a hateful act as officials try to determine whether it was, indeed, a hate crime. The suspect, Jason Eaton, has pleaded not guilty to attempted murder charges.
Polo Sandoval joins us with the latest reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RADI TAMIMI, UNCLE OF VICTIM KINNAN ABDALHAMID: Here he is in Vermont -- a small, storybook town. You wouldn't -- we were just shocked. We were just shocked.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This morning, one of three Palestinian college students shot over the weekend is out of the hospital, according to a source close to the families. The other two remain in ICU.
The mother of victim Hisham Awartani says her son has a long road to recovery.
ELIZABETH PRICE, MOTHER OF VICTIM HISHAM AWARTANI: He has another month in the hospital and then several months of physical therapy. But currently, the doctors say that he has lost function of mobility in his legs.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Relatives say the men were visiting Vermont on their Thanksgiving break when they were shot Saturday night.
E. PRICE: The three of them decided they would go around the block. They like to walk around the neighborhood when they're there. They each -- each of the other boys have been to my mother's house for Thanksgiving twice, and Hisham has been visiting Burlington for about 10 years, and so he knows the community very, very well. RICH PRICE, UNCLE OF VICTIM HISHAM AWARTANI: They were just walking, talking amongst themselves. They were wearing their keffiyehs, which are traditional Palestinian scarves. And this gentleman stepped out of the dark and pulled out a handgun and fired four times.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Investigators are trying to determine if they were the targets of a hate crime.
CHIEF JON MURAD, BURLINGTON, VERMONT POLICE DEPARTMENT: There's no one with common sense who can think about three young men, two of whom were wearing keffiyehs and who were speaking a mixture of English and Arabic, walking down a street to suddenly and randomly be without apparent any -- apparently any other motive attacked by someone and shot by that person and not think that seems like a crime driven by hate.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Officers located the suspect, 48-year-old Jason Eaton, Sunday afternoon near the scene of the attack. Police say he lives in an apartment building in front of the shooting scene. According to an affidavit of probable cause, Eaton told ATF agents, "I've been waiting for you."
Investigators say a pistol found in his apartment matches the shell casings at the scene and that Eaton acquired the gun legally just a few months ago.
He was arraigned Monday and pleaded not guilty. Eaton is being held without bail.
The families of the victims released a joint statement Monday calling the attack "A crime fueled by hate" and saying they welcome "The investigation and pursuit of hate crimes charges."
R. PRICE: These three young men grew up in Ramallah. They're best friends from growing up. They grew up under military occupation. And who would imagine that they would come to a place like this to celebrate Thanksgiving and this is when their lives would be a risk?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: And here in Burlington, certainly no doubt that this was a hateful attack, but was it hate-motivated? That is the complicated legal question that prosecutors now have to answer. We heard from them just yesterday, Poppy, who say so far -- and it could change at any moment -- they have found no evidence to support the additional hate crime enhancement that would go on top of the attempted murder charge -- the three attempted murder charges that the suspect in this case is facing.
But meanwhile, here at the hospital, it is becoming clearer and clearer the more you hear the stories of these three young men, they face a very long journey to recovery -- not just physically but certainly, emotionally as well.
HARLOW: Of course, they do. That's an interesting and important development. Polo, thank you very much for the reporting for us in Burlington.
And in our next hour here, we will be joined by Elizabeth Price. She is the mother of Hisham Awartani. Of course, he is one of the students who is still in the hospital.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Ukraine says a town on the eastern front of the war has seen nonstop shelling and fighting.
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Sounds of shelling.
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MATTINGLY: Coming up, we're going to show you more of this new video from Eastern Ukraine recorded by a soldier on the front lines.
HARLOW: And Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is warning that aid to Israel and Ukraine could be in jeopardy if Republicans do not budge on including border security in the package. We will be joined by Republican Sen. Mike Rounds. Where do things stand? He's with us next.
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[07:38:08]
MATTINGLY: Well, this just in. We have learned Israeli Defense officials came to Capitol Hill last night and met with some Senate Democrats over their war with Hamas. A source telling CNN that the unclassified meeting gave Democrats the opportunity to ask questions about the war as a growing number have grown concerned about Israel's prosecution of their campaign in Gaza.
HARLOW: This all comes as the end of the legislative session is fast approaching. Congress has not yet passed additional aid for Israel or Ukraine, and immigration reform is really the centerpiece of the logjam right now.
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer says he will bring a national security package to the floor that ties together Israel and Ukraine funding. He could do that as soon as next week. Republican leaders are insisting on making that aid contingent on tightening immigration laws. Schumer warning those demands could sink the whole thing.
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SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The worst thing we can do is to make something as bipartisan as Ukraine aid conditional on partisan issues that have little chance of becoming law. Sadly, that's what may well be happening right now because the biggest holdup to national -- to the national security supplement is an insistence by some Republicans -- just some -- on partisan border policy as a condition for Ukraine aid.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Joining us now is Sen. Mike Rounds of South Dakota. He serves on the Intelligence and the Armed Services Committees. Sir, I'm glad to have you this morning.
This is the sticking point. The last we heard in the reporting last night was the issue of parole, for example. You have been supportive of more funding for Israel and Ukraine but you also say they've got to be tied to the border. At all costs? Is it worth it if it sinks the whole thing?
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I don't think it will sink the whole thing. I think this is actually more of a bipartisan concern. Democrats have also expressed similar concerns with regard to the fact that the southern border has to be addressed.
HARLOW: Um-hum.
ROUNDS: We're really talking about the issue of amnesty and parole.
[07:40:00]
HARLOW: Um-hum.
ROUNDS: And these are the same items that we've laid out now for several weeks. There are ongoing negotiations between Republicans and Democrats. They're serious in nature. And I think that they can come to a successful conclusion.
But in order to get this aid package, which the president has requested -- and, in fact, he's asked for additional funds for funding for border protection --
HARLOW: Yeah.
ROUNDS: -- and security. He's included that in here.
HARLOW: Um-hum.
ROUNDS: And we're simply saying it will not work unless you change the policies that are in place right now at the southern border. About 77 percent of Americans agree with us on that issue and we think the vast majority of Democrats quietly agree with us as well.
HARLOW: Yeah.
ROUNDS: It's a matter of getting it done in an appropriate fashion.
HARLOW: Yeah, and it's -- and it's about time and it's about how you get there.
Let me ask you about what some of your Democratic colleagues in the Senate are saying.
Dick Durbin, the majority whip, said this is a big ask and he pointed to the fact it's been -- 1986 is the last time we saw comprehensive immigration reform in this country. Chris -- Sen. Chris Murphy, a little bit more blunt. Let me read you what he said. "I wish Republicans weren't demanding that we solve a really complicated domestic political issue in order to keep Putin from marching through Europe."
Is that a point worth considering, Senator?
ROUNDS: Well, I wouldn't phrase it in those terms at all, in fact. I think this is very doable. The American people are simply saying look, you are asking for about $109 billion for defense purposes but why aren't you fixing the policies at the southern border where you've had 8.4 million encounters in just -- well, since Biden took office?
The reality is it's a policy issue which has got to be changed, and it can be changed. And this is not something that should cause a great upheaval within the United States. This is one that should actually be a part of the package and it's a good thing to get done. We should be defending the southern border. And in doing so, you'll get support for the entire package.
HARLOW: There are currently, on the Senate calendar, 14 days left for you guys --
ROUNDS: Yeah.
HARLOW: -- to get this done. And you said if we carry it into next year it will be, quote, "too late and the funding will be gone."
Is it realistic to get done -- really, you think -- from those closed- door conversations with those across the aisle? You'll get it done in two weeks?
ROUNDS: I do believe that is entirely possible and here's the reason why. We know what the aid package looks like and the vast majority of us recognize we want to support Israel, we want to support Ukraine. And we recognize also, though, that the vast majority of the folks back home are saying why are you sending money elsewhere when --
HARLOW: Um-hum.
ROUNDS: -- we need to fix our own southern border?
But this is doable and the issues are not that difficult. It is not comprehensive in nature; it is specific. It is amnesty and it is parole. It's those two issues.
HARLOW: Yeah, but --
ROUNDS: They are both fixable and easily within the realm of getting it done.
HARLOW: They are big issues.
I do want to move on to --
ROUNDS: They are. HARLOW: They are.
I want to move on to Israel and if you agree with some senators -- Bernie Senators, one of them; Chris Murphy, another one -- who are saying more aid to Israel has to come with conditions. Senator Sanders has been asking for things like a freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank, a commitment to a two-state solution, a real change in Israel's approach to the bombings in Gaza.
Do you think it needs to be conditional -- more aid to Israel -- or unconditional?
ROUNDS: You know, I go back to what happened after 9/11 for us. Our allies didn't walk in and simply say we're going to have the following conditions before we help you. And I think right now --
HARLOW: Um-hum.
ROUNDS: -- as an ally of Israel, we have to look at that and say look, this is their 9/11. Let's help them right now but it's OK for us to discuss with them long-term how that support continues on.
HARLOW: OK.
ROUNDS: And if they're losing the public relations battle, then they need to be told you may have to look at other approaches --
HARLOW: Do you think they are?
ROUNDS: -- to getting this job done.
HARLOW: Do you think, right now, Israel is --
ROUNDS: Yeah, I think they are -- yeah. Yeah, I think they are. I think they're very cognizant of the fact that they need to win the public relations battle as well, but they have to take out Hamas. And we should be supportive in that but we should also be providing them advice --
HARLOW: OK.
ROUNDS: -- but not necessarily limiting it, saying --
HARLOW: OK.
ROUNDS: -- we're not going to provide assistance if you don't meet the following --
HARLOW: OK.
ROUNDS: -- conditions. I think that would be a mistake.
HARLOW: Don't condition it now.
Senator Mike Rounds --
ROUNDS: No.
HARLOW: -- thank you very much. Come back soon.
ROUNDS: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, Ukraine's eastern front continues to get bombarded by Russian forces. Coming up, we have new video from the trenches of the front lines taken by a Ukrainian commander.
HARLOW: After 50 days being held hostage, 4-year-old Abigail Edan finally reunited with her family. Look at that. We will speak with two of her family members about her return. That's ahead.
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[07:48:24]
MATTINGLY: Ten people are dead in Ukraine after severe winter -- after a severe winter storm left hundreds of towns without power over the last two days. Engineers are currently trying to restore electricity to the areas.
It comes as the city of Kharkiv completed its mandatory evacuation of children. That evacuation began after local officials said there have been increased Russian attacks on civilian targets. Nearly 300 children have left since the November 3 order.
It highlights an escalation on the eastern front of the war. Right now, fierce fighting has raged for more than a month. Russian forces have launched a large-scale attack with round-the-clock shelling and waves of armored vehicles in an attempt to encircle certain towns.
We are getting a new look at the front lines there from a soldier who recorded his experience in the trenches where he and his team came just feet from Russian tanks.
CNN's Anna Coren has the story.
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ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the predawn light, a cacophony of military firepower fills the air. Incoming explosions, outgoing fire as one of Ukraine's assault infantry units of the 47th Mechanized Brigade tries to take back trenches in Avdiivka captured by Russian forces.
"We need drones! We need drones!" says company commander Oleh Sentsov, filming on his GoPro. "The bastards are sitting in the tree line shooting at us," he explains.
In a rare interview, the former filmmaker imprisoned by the Russians in 2014 for five years tells me about last month's mission in what has become one of the hottest spots on the eastern front.
[07:50:04] OLEH SENTSOV, COMPANY COMMANDER, 47TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE (through translator): My goal was for people to watch this and know what this war is really like because it's very important to record it so that people know now and know later what a cruel and terrible war it is.
COREN (voice-over): One of his troops has been hit. They remove his body armor to reveal a bullet hole. As they apply a chest tube, the team has even bigger problems.
"Duck! The tank is coming," yells one of them. And then the war from the sky begins. "Drone! Drone! FPV," cries a soldier. "I see it," another shouts back.
Minutes later, another soldier is hit -- this time, shrapnel to the legs.
While talking on the radio reporting on his injured troops, Oleh also gets hit but doesn't realize for a few moments. "There's a small hole. I see the blood. You're bleeding," says the female paramedic.
Quickly patched up, Oleh remains focused and composed until suddenly, they hear the rumble of tanks. Oleh's unit tries to bury themselves in the earth as one drives by. The female paramedic cries, "We are surrounded. The tanks are shooting on us." Approximately 40 tons of terror so close the earth is shaking.
Drone footage taken by the Ukrainian military shows four Russian tanks firing on the tree line. Positioned in those trees are three Ukrainian assault groups in trenches spread out over a kilometer. Oleh's unit is in the middle. They were the only ones to be spared.
SENTSOV (through translator): We failed to hold our position and had to retreat. We had injuries but survived. But the other two groups were almost completely destroyed.
COREN (voice-over): This is the first time Oleh has failed a mission as commander in the almost two years that he's been fighting. The 47- year-old tells me he wants the world to know the truth on the front line -- a war this father of four is returning to this week.
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COREN: Phil, this is the reality on the frontline. This is what the war in Ukraine looks like. And it may have fallen from the headlines -- the global headlines, but this war is being fought every single day by those brave soldiers.
President Zelenskyy -- he described the battle in Avdiivka as an onslaught. He's also said that this is the battle that will determine the course of the war.
And recently, we heard from the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Gen. Zaluzhny, who admitted that this war is now a stalemate. That both sides are fighting these fierce and bloody fights just to hold ground.
MATTINGLY: That's a remarkable piece. Anna Coren, thank you.
HARLOW: Well, this just in. Brand new reporting about what Mike Pence told the special counsel investigating January 6. His private warnings to former President Trump, and why investigators are even zeroing in on a comma in Pence's book.
MATTINGLY: And Thomas Hand waited 50 days to see his daughter Emily return from Hamas captivity. CNN's Clarissa Ward just spoke with him about their reunion. We're going to see that powerful interview. That's next.
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[07:56:49]
MATTINGLY: Well, there are new details emerging about former Vice President Mike Pence's conversations with special counsel Jack Smith. ABC News is reporting some specific details from those conversations earlier this year where Pence was questioned about personal notes he took after meetings with then-President Trump. And one line of questioning had to do with the placement of a comma in a quote from Pence's book.
Pence wrote that he told Trump on Christmas Day 2020, quote, "You know, I don't have -- I don't think I have the authority to change the outcome of the election on January 6." That comma there -- that's key.
ABC News reporting Pence told prosecutors it should never have been placed there. That it was supposed to be an admonishment.
CNN's Elie Honig joins us now. Elie, without getting into the comma specifically, what does it tell you that Smith seems to be that granular about their process here?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, FORMER FEDERAL AND NEW JERSEY STATE PROSECUTOR: Well, Phil, this is what prosecutors do. Let's remember, this trial is going to happen. It is under 100 days away from right now. Mike Pence is going to be a pivotal -- perhaps the pivotal witness for the prosecutors.
He has the sort of unique standing here where he's both an eyewitness and a victim. He's a victim in the sense that he was the recipient of Donald Trump's pressure campaign. He was the one who the rioters were chanting for. But he's also a witness to crucial one-on-one conversations, at times, that he had with Donald Trump. And there's no other person on the planet who can give prosecutors the kind of insight that Mike Pence can give them.
I think the key reporting here is that Pence directly told Donald Trump he had seen no evidence of election fraud -- add Mike Pence to that long list -- and that he did not believe he had the constitutional authority to throw out the votes.
HARLOW: Um-hum. HONIG: So, Mike Pence is a crucial witness any way you cut this and it makes sense to me that prosecutors are digging in at that level of granularity.
HARLOW: Can we just get into the commas for a moment though, Elie, because you read it --
HONIG: Yeah.
HARLOW: -- "You know, I don't have the authority to change the outcome of the election on January 6" or "You know I don't have the authority." I mean, that is a huge difference, is it not? What would it do for the prosecution here --
HONIG: It does.
HARLOW: -- because Pence is saying it's the latter?
HONIG: Commas matter. Every word matters. Every piece of punctuation matters. Think about how that changes the meaning of this sentence. On the one hand, it's written with the comma, which would mean "you know" -- in the conversational sense "You know, sir, I don't think I have the authority to do that." Without the comma, which Pence now says the comma shouldn't be there, it means "You know -- Donald Trump, you know that I don't think I have the authority to throw out the election."
So that comma -- it may seem trivial but it makes a big difference in the actual meaning of the sentence.
MATTINGLY: Elie, Pence could take the stand when this goes to trial. If you are Trump's lawyers, how do you cross-examine and question Pence as a witness?
HONIG: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things.
First of all, Mike Pence did write a book where he came out with some of these details -- many of these details, but not all of them. And I think the argument you'll hear from Trump's lawyers is that anything he didn't put in his book is sort of what we call a recent fabrication -- something he made up after the fact.
And I think some of what they'll press Mike Pence on is that he has said that at times he believed there were irregularities in the voting although, ultimately, he comes around to the view that there was no evidence of fraud.
But I think he'll also press Mike Pence on the fact that Donald Trump was hearing different pieces of advice from different advisers. Some of them who I think are generally seen as more responsible were telling Trump there's no evidence.
