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CNN This Morning

Israel and Hamas End Ceasefire; Israel Defense Forces begin Operations against Hamas in Gaza; Israel Defense Forces Release Information to Gaza Citizens on Where Their Operations Will Be Conducted So Civilian Can Evacuate Those Areas; UNICEF Official in Gaza Decries "War on Children"; Truce Expires, Israel Resumes Gaza Military Campaign; Lawmakers Set to Vote on Santos Expulsion. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired December 01, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us on this Friday. We are following significant breaking news this morning. The truce between Israel and Hamas is now over, and this is what we have been seeing today in Gaza. Airstrikes have been raining down and fighting is raging once again after the weeklong pause ended at midnight eastern time. The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health says Israeli strikes have already killed people. The number now, 32 people killed in Gaza. As we're told trucks with that desperately needed humanitarian aid have stopped going into Gaza for now. Israel is accusing Hamas of breaking the truce by firing rockets on communities near the Gaza Strip.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: So the big questions this morning, what happens now? Qatar says negotiations are ongoing to pause the fighting and exchange hostages again. No clear answer as to whether or not that will reach a resolution. What about those remaining hostages? This morning, Israel says 137 are still believed to be in Gaza. A senior U.S. official telling me before the pause fell apart, Hamas was claiming it did not have any more women or children hostages to exchange, which was the agreement that had lasted seven days. Israel saying that's not true. A U.S. official telling me Hamas didn't submit a list of hostages to release last night like they had been doing in days prior.

What happens now to the civilians in Gaza? That is the other critical question here. The Biden administration has been pressing the Israeli government to protect those civilians. Secretary of State Antony Blinken met with Israeli leaders yesterday. He says he told them the massive loss of life that had been seen in northern Gaza cannot be repeated in the south.

Joining us now, IDF spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Lieutenant Colonel, we appreciate your time this morning. With what we're seeing right now, should it be characterized that operations in the south are officially underway? LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Good

morning, Phil. Yes, indeed. Since Hamas decided to cancel the ceasefire by not releasing women and children, we have been instructed to engage. Before we conducted any sort of activities, Hamas had already fired rockets from southern Gaza before 6:00 a.m. this morning here in Israel. They had been firing throughout the day at Israel. So, yes, we are engaging. We are seeking out Hamas wherever they are. We are evacuating people from specific areas that we intend on operating on. This is the nature of warfare.

MATTINGLY: On your last point, there have been leaflets that have been dropped with a QR code. That code leads to -- you also put out a statement in multiple languages. It has a civilian evacuation map. I think we can bring it up with we have it. But this has numbered zones, it's kind of parceled out throughout that area. Two questions. One, Internet connectivity has been a problem at various points throughout Gaza. Does that concern you for people actually knowing their zones? And second, how are people supposed to understand what this means?

LERNER: Of course, if you zoom in on that map, if you live in a specific location, you will know where you live and you will know if you are being told to evacuate from one point to another that you should take that advice.

This is precisely the idea of getting people out of harm's way, so if you know that there is going to be an IDF operation in your area, you should try and evacuate if you are not a Hamas terrorist. This is precisely the efforts that we are going to in order to try and alleviate the difficulties, the challenges that the civilians of Gaza are facing following the war, a war that Israel didn't ask for, a war that Hamas opened and launched on the 7th of October, brutally massacring, murdering, butchering, beheading, and raping and abducting so many Israelis on that brutal, horrific day. So we are now at war with Hamas. We have resumed our activities this morning.

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And we are continuing to operate within the guidelines of the laws of armed conflict with distinguishing between civilians, noncombatants, and Hamas.

MATTINGLY: This has been a significant element of discussions between U.S. officials and their counterparts in your government. My question, based on what you are outlining here, is evacuate to where? Particularly in the south, given the scale of movement of the civilian population from the north, there are so many people there, are there specific places they are supposed to go when you warn them?

LERNER: So if you look again at the map, you will see there are specific areas we are saying this is where you need to evacuate from. These are places where we are intending to conduct our operations. Therefore, beyond those areas are safer areas. This is precisely the distinction that we need to conduct between civilians and terrorists, between the noncombatants and terrorists.

Of course, it does difficult, especially due to the ruthless enemy that we are facing. Hamas have put their terrorist capabilities within the civilian arena, intentionally putting the civilians of Gaza at risk, whether it's in hospitals, schools, mosques, high-rise buildings, wherever they are, they are using the civilian arena in order to try to conduct their attacks. This is the challenge we face.

MATTINGLY: I know that you are representing the IDF. You are not in the political side or the government. Do you have any understanding -- does the IDF have any understanding in terms of now that the hostage swaps, the pause have broken down, as Israel's made clear they believe because of Hamas not putting a list on the table, not complying with the agreement, do you know where the 130 plus hostages are at this point? And is there any hope those negotiations could lead to another pause?

LERNER: Well, here's an idea I'd like to entertain perhaps with you. Of course, this isn't policy, but just think about this for a moment. Hamas could unconditionally surrender and release all of the hostages, and there would be no need for any more war. This is a reality we are facing currently. The government has instructed the IDF to engage Hamas. We intend on defeating Hamas. We intend, on one hand, dismantling and destroying Hamas as a governing authority, but on the other hand, we intend on bringing the hostages back, every last one of them.

We have an obligation to do so to the families, that there are now 140 Israeli families have been torn to pieces, their lives torn to pieces for 56 days now. We are heading into our eighth week in conflict with a ruthless terrorist organization that is conducting psychological terrorism, that is trying to squeeze us extensively. Hamas have to go. We need to bring back the hostages. We need to bring them back now.

We will use everything in our disposal, operational, intelligence capabilities, in order to try and realize that. But indeed, there is a huge challenge in that effort. Obviously, their presence influences the operational activities that we are conducting. But absolutely, there are the two goals that need to be achieved.

MATTINGLY: One final question while I have you. Our reporting on the frowned is that humanitarian aid trucks have been halted going through the Rafah crossing. I believe there had been commitments that humanitarian aid would continue at the significantly surged levels that came into place over the course of the last search days. Was there an order given to halt the crossings?

LERNER: So, throughout the last seven weeks now, almost eight weeks, we have been conducting a humanitarian effort that operates hand in hand with the operational effort. And indeed, as you rightly pointed out, over the last week, hundreds of truckloads of medical supplies, food supplies, shelter, water, fuel, gas have all come in. I can say that I have some indications from this morning that there has -- some of that has actually been siphoned off by Hamas. So there are concerns.

I can't say that I -- from what I know today there has not been any transfer of goods today, indeed, but we will be looking into that throughout the next coming days. MATTINGLY: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner from the IDF, we

appreciate it. Thank you.

LERNER: Thanks, Phil.

HARLOW: Let's bring in CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel, could you respond to what you just heard there. That last answer I think was really crucial from Peter Lerner of the IDF. I mean, that sound like aid is not going to go in. Is that what you're hearing?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: That's what I heard as well, Poppy. And good morning to you. So when you look at the different areas here that we have with Gaza being right here, the crossing points right there at Rafah, all of that area is basically blocked off. And frankly, if I were on Egyptian truck driver going into Gaza, I wouldn't want to at this moment in time. It's just flat out too dangerous.

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And there is no way that the Israeli forces are going to discriminate against the efforts by the truck drivers and the aid groups to come in there. So what that means is it's just too dangerous to distribute U.N. aid or any of the other aid that's coming in.

HARLOW: OK. So perhaps no more aid going in. Let's see how this plays out.

And then let's pull up this other map, which is the evacuation zone map for southern Gaza where Phil was just talking to the IDF representative about that. Where are people supposed to go, Colonel, to be safe? And why wouldn't Hamas operatives just go with them to the safe zones?

LEIGHTON: I think that's the biggest danger, Poppy, right here. So when you look at this map, and it's a very detailed -- they have very small zones, either usually three or four digit numbers. And so what they will do, if I understood Colonel Lerner correctly, what they are going to do is they're going to tell people to evacuate, like this zone here is 2231. So if they evacuate this zone, then they can move into other zones. But they will probably be using a series of zones that will be the area in which they are going to be striking.

So if that's the case, they are going to basically force people to move, let's say they are striking in this area, they will move out of all of these different zones. There are probably 20 different zones here. And when they come out here, where are they supposed to go? Then theoretically, everything that is not mentioned is safe. So they could potentially go here or here or here. But if they do that, then they have to, of course, be cognizant that this could change. And if there is a lack of Internet connectivity, then you've got a problem.

HARLOW: Which we know is a problem on the ground for a lot of people. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you very much.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Well, the Biden administration warning Israeli officials to approach southern Gaza differently than their operation in the north. What that means.

HARLOW: Also, new reporting this morning suggesting Israel knew about Hamas's specific attack plan for more than a year. How this could impact Prime Minister Netanyahu's political future.

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JAMES ELDER, UNICEF SPOKESMAN: This hospital simply cannot take more children with the wounds of war, there are children everywhere. These children are sleeping, there was a bomb literally 50 meters from here, this is a war on children.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: A war on children, stark words from a UNICEF spokesman as the truce between Israel and Hamas has ended. He was speaking from one of the last remaining hospitals that is operating in Gaza. The Hamas-controlled Palestinian Health Ministry, says 6000 children have been killed in Gaza since the October 7 terror attack.

And this is a live look at Gaza right now, where we are seeing large plumes of smoke once again. The IDF says it is resuming combat operations against Hamas after that seven-day truce expired.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Negotiations are still technically ongoing despite the renewed fighting, at this hour. There are more questions, though than answers about what's going to happen next. Let's bring in CNN Political and Foreign policy analyst Barak Ravid, and Yaakov Katz is a senior columnist and editor at The Jerusalem Post and author of three books on the Israeli military.

Barak, I want to start with you because you've been covering every in and out and moment of this over the course, in particular the negotiations over the last seven days. Is there any chance that they come back to life? I know the Qataris say they're still talking. US officials say that Israel is still talking to intermediaries, and so is Hamas, how real is that?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Good morning, I think it's real, I think we just moved, let's say a week ago or ten days ago, Israel and Hamas were holding indirect talks under fire. Then we had this pause, and the talks went on during a pause, during a ceasefire.

And now we're back to talking under fire, and I think we can find ourselves again, maybe again, not today, not tomorrow. It will take a few days, but we can find ourselves again in some sort of a pause around some kind of a renewed or a bit different hostage deal, I wouldn't close the door on this at all. HARLOW: Yaakov, given all your reporting on the Israeli military, do

you agree with that assessment?

YAAKOV KATZ, SENIOR COLUMNIST & EDITOR, THE JERUSALEM POST: Yeah, I think that there's no question that the military offensive is what has been instrumental in putting pressure on Hamas to even get them to think about a deal, right? We have to remember, what was Hamas's strategy? They went in on October 7.

They massacred and butchered about 1200 people, they showed that all of Israel's defenses and its intelligence were flawed, and they were able to break in. The security measures did not work. But why did they take the hostages? That is because they wanted to continue to cause Israel pain, and they wanted to have that leverage.

Israel's offensive on the ground has put Hamas into a corner, and it got them under pressure. They felt this is the way to relieve some of that pressure, but it's like a valve. They opened it for a bit, they released about 100 hostages, there are still 130 or so inside the Gaza Strip now fighting resumed.

At some point, they'll feel the pressure again. They'll be willing to open the valve again. So, I think that the pressure by the IDF is important, is key, to get these hostages back home.

MATTINGLY: Barak part of that pressure is the Southern operations that have been a significant point of debate between U.S. Officials and their Israeli counterparts over the course, specifically of the last several days. We just talked to Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner from the IDF, they have released a map, a numbered map, where people can evacuate if they are warned that hostilities are coming.

That doesn't sound like the scale of what U.S. Officials think is enough. Is more coming, do we have a sense of what the safe zones would look like, and where they may be?

RAVID: I think when it comes to the safe zones in Gaza, I'm not sure that that's exactly what the US. Wants. I think the Biden administration assesses that those safe zones are not necessarily safe on the one hand, and on the other hand, there's no real cooperation by international organizations or the UN or the Palestinian civilians themselves for going into those areas to avoid getting hit.

Therefore, I think that this map that the IDF has put out is more in line of what the US wanted. Meaning, you're not giving the civilians there just one area and telling them, okay, everybody goes there. But you parse the Gaza Strip into small pieces, and you tell them every time, okay, whoever lives in this quite small part of the Gaza Strip, go now out of this part for, I don't know.

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An hour, 2 hours, a day, and then you can come back after we finish operating there.

HARLOW: Dumb question, perhaps, but I keep wondering, why wouldn't Hamas just go with them?

KATZ: Go with the deal of -

HARLOW: No, I'm saying to these zones, to these safe zones, they have a history of surrounding themselves with civilians, do you see what I'm saying, is this the most effective way?

KATZ: This is Israel's way of trying to say, and I think Israel has been very clear on this since the beginning of the conflict, that the war is not against the Palestinian people, the war is against Hamas. And Israel wants to give the people of Gaza the opportunity to flee those areas.

That's where they're going to operate. They did that in the North, and despite the heavy toll, and we have to recognize there's a tragedy unfolding in Gaza, we cannot ignore that. I would argue it's the fault and it's the responsibility of Hamas.

They're the ones who embed themselves in civilian infrastructure, they're the ones who hide under hospitals in schools, and in mosques. And unfortunately, Israel is a country that has a right to act in self-defense, and to take out those military targets, people are going to get killed.

That's the ugly truth of war, but Hamas is going to continue to use these civilians, that is their modus operandi. They want to surround themselves by them, and that's how they continue to survive and fight.

MATTINGLY: Barak Ravid, and Yaakov Katz, we appreciate it, thanks guys.

KATZ: Thank you.

HARLOW: George Santos, just hours away from possibly joining some elite company. He could become only the 6th elected official ever kicked out of Congress. He says he is not going quietly.

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HARLOW: Welcome back, in just 2 hours, the House of Representatives will vote on whether to expel embattled Congressman George Santos. If two-thirds of the House do vote to expel, it would make Santos only the 6th member to ever be expelled. And at this moment, according to a pair of Senior Republican sources, top Republicans are not sure how this is going to go down if he is expelled.

The New York Republican will not be going quietly, he is threatening to spill tea on several of his colleagues if he is expelled. Harry Enten joins us now with more. If you look at the numbers, does he have a chance to stay in Congress?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah, so let's take a look, this all comes down to math, which is something I like to talk about. So, the House votes needed to expel George Santos, you need 290 total to expel them. Among Republicans, you're going to need 77 if every Democrat votes to expel.

So, the question is, are they going to get to that 77? So, let's take a look at sort of the stage play right now. Again, with 77 likely needed, 24 Republicans have previously voted to expel, and an additional 20 more say they will now. So that's going to need an additional 33.

And keep in mind, many GOP members are not saying how they're going to vote. So, this is all the reporting we have right now, which is essentially that we don't know how this is going to go down, but it looks at this point like it's going to be close.

HARLOW: Are there any Republicans in Congress who are fearful that if they expel Santos, vote to expel, they will face repercussions from their voters?

ENTEN: Yeah, this to me is a very interesting thing. Republican voters are more than willing to go along with the idea of getting rid of George Santos. So, take a look at Republicans nationwide who hold a positive view of George Santos. It's just 15 percent, remember, the last Republican president who resigned was Richard Nixon.

Fifty percent of Republicans had a positive view of him. So, the fact is, Republicans nationwide, there's no reason why House Republicans should fear repercussions from their voters. I think the real thing, though, that they're looking at is the US House balance of power.

At this point, it's just nine seats. It's tied for the narrowest majority in the last 90 years. So, it's not the voters that they necessarily fear, but it's more the idea that they just do not necessarily want such a small majority.

HARLOW: Then what happens to the district if he gets expelled? Yeah, if he does get expelled, I mean, look, this is a very tight district, Republicans won in the Senate race, but Biden won in 2020, so it'll be a toss, but this goes to a special election.

HARLOW: Harry, thank you very much, appreciate it, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, as Harry just laid out, despite the allegations against Congressman Santos, not every Republican is declaring they're going to vote to expel him, including Congressman Matt Gaetz.

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REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Since the beginning of this Congress, there's only two ways you get expelled you get convicted of a crime, or you participated in the civil war. Neither apply to George Santos, and so I rise not to defend George Santos, whoever he is, but to defend the very precedent that my colleagues are willing to shatter.

(END VIDEO CLIP MATTINGLY: Very important caveat, not defending George Santos there. Joining us now to unpack, back with us to unpack is Naysa Woomer. She was Congressman Santos's communications director but resigned in May after he was indicted on fraud and money laundering charges.

Great to see you again, as somebody who worked in his office knows him, and spent a lot of time with him, what would you tell Republican lawmakers who are on the fence right now who don't know which way they're going to go?

NAYSA WOOMER, FORMER SANTOS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, that's a difficult question, no, I shouldn't say it's a difficult question. It's a great question to ask, it's a difficult situation to be in because, yes, he has not been convicted as of yet, but at the same time, Chairman Guest spent a great amount of time on the floor yesterday, really laying out the house ethics report.

And the work that they had put into this and highlighting that the Congressman had many opportunities to cooperate and provide information, and he failed to do so. And that was a big shock to me. But as a member of Congress who was on the fence, let that serve as a confirmation that this was not a biased report.

It was conducted very thoroughly, and the staff did a tremendous job, they reviewed over 172,000 pages worth of information and interviewed over 40 people. That should be a confirmation right there. And if we're looking to earn the trust of the American people, let this serve as an example by expelling someone unfit to serve.

MATTINGLY: Did you watch the Congressman's defense in front of the House chamber yesterday?

WOOMDER: I did watch it.

MATTINGLY: So, my question throughout.

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