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Naysa Woomer is Interviewed about George Santos; Tough Year for Ukraine on Battlefield; Sheriff Speaks about Goon Squad; Jennifer Brown Hyde and Paul Solet are Interviewed about Chowchilla. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 01, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

NAYSA WOOMER, FORMER SANTOS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Who is truly unfit to serve.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Did you watch the - the congressman's defense in front of the House chamber yesterday?

WOOMER: I did watch it.

MATTINGLY: So, my question throughout, and there was a lot there to try and unpack, when you watched that, did you think there was a strategy? Did you recognize it? Or was he in just a different place now?

WOOMER: Honestly, you know, he announced this back in -- over the Thanksgiving holiday. And what I saw was that it just seemed like it was very on the -- you know, often the cuff. And it did not seem to be any kind of strategy involved here because, you know, you should have taken that opportunity to create a plan, practice, you know, take -- draft a speech, practice and, you know, even have your staff draft up some questions that could potentially be asked by reporters, and start practicing that. We didn't see that yesterday. What I saw was just, you know, it was about 18 minutes of a speech and of taking a few questions. And the one that really struck out at me was, he had highlighted in social media that he had planned to basically relay information about other members of their infidelities, which a report point blank asked him that and he just said, go do the research yourself. That was just another - a lie or a tease of just drawing reporters to come to a press conference where he screamed, I'm a victim, I'm being bullied. But, at the end of the day, he's not a victim. He's not a bully. And, you know, this is an issue that was of his own making.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and he's going to receive judgment from his colleagues in the House in about two hours.

Naysa Woomer, we appreciate it, as always. Thank you.

WOOMER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, an update on the war in Ukraine. Progress has been slow on the eastern front of its war with Russia. Why sources are telling CNN's Jim Sciutto that Ukraine forces are facing a, quote, tough winter and a difficult year ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:56]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

An update on the war in Ukraine. Western officials are warning that Ukrainian forces face a very tough winter ahead. Lately, the counteroffensive's progress has been slow. Forward movement has been limited to just about one mile a day in some areas.

MATTINGLY: A big factor, the lack of air power to support those ground operations. And without it, Ukraine will likely struggle make significant movement on the front lines while Russia's bombardment is expected to expand and inflict more suffering on civilians during the cold winter months.

CNN's Jim Sciutto joins us now. This is his reporting.

It's fascinating in terms of the analysis that the western officials are get at here, particularly that last point, what might be next for Russia, because it has some familiarity to what they did last winter as well. What do you know?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No question. And, listen, it's a reminder that this is still a brutal, devastating war going on right now in Ukraine. It's been getting less attention. But things are bad today. They're expected to get worse. Western intelligence affects -- expects Russia to amp up its attacks, particularly on civilian infrastructure inside Ukraine in the coming weeks via drones, missile strikes, artillery strikes, with the express intent of worsening the suffering of the Ukrainian people. That's part of Russia's war plan, particularly during the brutal summer months. So, in addition to slow progress on the battlefield, they expect this to be a tough winter because of those strikes. And Ukraine is bracing itself for it.

HARLOW: Do the Ukrainian officials you speak with, Jim, think that they are going to get more money from the U.S. to continue this counteroffensive?

SCIUTTO: Listen, it's an open question. They don't know for sure. They have hope. And I have spoken to both Democrats and Republicans who believe that Ukraine aid will get through. And I've spoken to European officials who come to Washington asking that very question and they're getting assurances, even from Republican leaders. But from the Ukrainian perspective, they have seen delays before.

So, listen, they have to take some of those assurances with a grain of salt. And it comes, as you were saying, Poppy, in the introduction to this, as progress on the battlefield has been extremely slow. Weeks and weeks of battle to gain perhaps a mile of territory here, a few miles of territory there. That's where this war is settled now. And the sad fact is, western intelligence does not expect it to change anytime soon.

MATTINGLY: Jim, I was struck in your reporting - I think I actually read the line twice about western intelligence officials looking at the 2024 election not just on the U.S. side but also the Russia side.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Why?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, there's Russian presidential elections in March. Putin's up again. He's going to win it, right? It's not a free election, as we know. But they do worry that after that election and after victory day, the inauguration, victory day in May, that Putin may attempt a big Russian push against Ukraine, even the possibility of a bigger mobilization, a draft, in effect, of more Russians to try to strike a death blow against Ukraine.

Ukraine will have some advantages because under those circumstances it would be the defending power in terms of territory. But it's not something that western intelligence thinks will be pretty. And it is another thing, beyond this winter, looking further ahead, that they're bracing for.

MATTINGLY: It is fascinating reporting. Jim Sciutto, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thanks a lot.

HARLOW: Thanks, Jim.

The truce between Israel and Hamas has ended after seven days. So once again explosions are rocking Gaza. You see those giant plumes of smoke again rising over the skyline. It's the middle of the afternoon there in Gaza. We have the latest from the ground ahead.

MATTINGLY: And a group of Mississippi police officers called the "Goon Squad" was arrested for attacking innocent people. Now the sheriff in charge of them is speaking out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:44:00]

HARLOW: Well, new this morning, actress Felicity Huffman speaking out for the first time in an interview with KABC (ph) about her participation in that nationwide scandal known as "Operation Varsity Blues." Huffman was one of dozens of wealthy parents who worked with the college admissions consultant and committed fraud to get their children into college. Huffman says she did it to give her daughter a future. She went on to say, quote, "I know hindsight is 20/20, but it felt like I would be a bad mother if I didn't do it. So I did it." Huffman says the FBI came into her home, woke her and her daughters up at gunpoint. She was handcuffed and said, quote, "I thought it was a hoax. I literally turned to one of the FBI people, in a flak jacket and a gun, and I went, is this a joke?" Huffman pleaded guilty to federal charges in 2019. She served 11 days in prison.

MATTINGLY: Also this morning, we have an update on a story we covered out of Mississippi earlier this year. If you remember a group of law enforcement officers went to prison for assaulting and torturing these two black men back in January. Now, for the first time, the sheriff of Rankin County, who was in charge at the time of the attack, and just re-elected last month, is speaking about his department's so-called "Goon Squad."

[08:45:10]

Now, these six ex-law enforcement officers pleaded guilty to multiple state and federal charges stemming from the abuse. Five are from the Rankin County Sheriff's Office, one from the Richland Police Department.

CNN's Ryan Young has been covering this story and has more details.

Ryan, what's being said here?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Phil, we're still waiting to see how long these men will all face in terms of jail time. That sentencing won't happens until next year.

But I can tell you this, there's many people in this community who wanted to hear from the sheriff because they want to understand, how did it get this far. And to be very clear, the two men who were beaten and tortured and had racial epitaphs yelled at them did nothing before all this attack happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHERIFF BRYAN BAILEY, RANKIN COUNTY, MISSISSIPPI: I had a group of thugs wearing badges that got out and went and committed a home invasion against two innocent men. It was completely -- everything they did was outside the scope of their duty.

YOUNG (voice over): Sheriff Bryan Bailey speaking about his department's so-called "Goon Squad." In January, five sheriff's deputies and one police officer from a neighboring department forced their way into a home in Rankin County. That night one deputy sent a text message asking, "are y'all available for a mission?," according to court documents. Eddie Parker and Michael Jenkins were inside. The two black men were tortured, tased, and say they were sexually assaulted for two hours. At one point a deputy put his gun inside Jenkins mouth, shooting him. Then according to court documents, the "Goon Squad" tried to cover it up. Jenkins told CNN about the pain he still suffers.

YOUNG: Did anyone from the department ever reach out to you and apologize? Have they ever asked for anything at all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

BAILEY: Eventually I'd like to apologize, you know, to them. I've apologize to them on camera and everything like that. And I have seen them one time in person.

YOUNG (voice over): It's the first time the victims have been offered a face-to-face meeting.

BAILEY: I'm sorry for what happened to them. But, again, that was not a deputy sheriff that did that to them, that was a criminal.

YOUNG (voice over): Bailey won re-election earlier this month. He ran unopposed. Now the community is grappling with questions about leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Bryan Bailey's heart. He is law enforcement all the way and he loves Jesus all the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's still in because they want him in.

YOUNG (voice over): Despite his election victory, the Rankin County NAACP has begun collecting signatures calling for Bailey's resignation.

ANGELA ENGLISH, PRESIDENT, RANKIN COUNTY, MS NAACP: We want law enforcement officers to be held accountable, to be punished for these kinds of behaviors.

YOUNG (voice over): Jenkins and Parker claim the deputies called them the n-word and used other racial slurs during the beating. In a county that's majority white, but neighbors Jackson, one of America's blackest cities, Bailey says he doesn't want his deputies' actions to reflect on him.

BAILEY: Race isn't (ph) over with. There's good and bad, right and wrong. I don't care what color you are.

YOUNG (voice over): The sheriff also said there were new efforts within the department to retrain deputies. Every Taser use is logged and deputies recently received civil rights training. The NAACP doesn't think that's enough.

ENGLISH: The only way that we will be able to get the trust of the people back is to get -- remove Sheriff Bailey from office.

YOUNG (voice over): With a pending federal sentencing of his former deputies casting a shadow over the department, residents we spoke with still have questions about the future of law enforcement in Rankin County.

BAILEY: Well, I still have a lot of support within the community asking me not to resign. They want me to stay here. They - you know, they believe in - believe in this department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG (on camera): Yes, Phil and Poppy, basically we had to go and talk to the sheriff at this point because there's so many questions in this community and they feel like this hasn't really gotten the attention that it deserves. Remember, those two men were completely innocent in this case. They didn't even know that they were even under the watch of anybody at the sheriff's department.

But as you move forward, the community's also trying to figure out exactly when the sheriff's department is going to step forward and lay out all these guidelines that they've made changes to. That's something that he wanted to do with us and that's part of the reason why we got this interview. At the same time, though, you can understand, those two men and their lawyers are still very upset. They point to the fact this was a failure of leadership.

Guys.

MATTINGLY: So important you stayed on this story. Ryan Young, keep us posted. Thank you.

YOUNG: Absolutely. Thank you.

HARLOW: Nearly 50 years ago a school bus carrying 26 children just disappeared. The new CNN film "Chowchilla" debuts this weekend with one of the biggest crime stories you have probably never heard. We'll speak with the film's director and a survivor, next.

MATTINGLY: And, just moments ago, New York Congressman George Santos taking another run at it with a vote to possibly expel him from the House set for this morning.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): I want people to vote their conscience and I don't want to make anybody feel uncomfortable. So, if it's their choice to change precedent and loop me in with three confederate turncoats who were - who were expelled for treason and two convicted members - members who were convicted in a court of law.

[08:50:03]

So, I'll be the first person to get expelled from Congress without a conviction or without committing treason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: So, coming this Sunday we are bringing you an all new CNN film "Chowchilla." And this tells one of the most shocking true crime stories that you've probably never heard. It is about the 1976 kidnapping of a school bus full of children and their driver. This happened in California. They were actually buried underground for more than 12 hours before orchestrating their own dramatic escape. The incident captivated the nation at the time. It also became a turning point in our understanding of the treatment of childhood trauma.

Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started hearing sawing and hammering.

[08:55:08]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then all of a sudden the door flies open.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took Andre (ph) out first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they grabbed one of the kids. The door flies shut again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A few minutes would go by, they'd reach in, grab another kid. And I scooted myself way to the front of the van again. I was trying to survive at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt helpless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That to me was one of the scariest because now we're going to find out what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, joining us now is Paul Solet. He is the director of the "Chowchilla" film. Also with us is Jennifer Brown Hyde. She is one of the survivors of that kidnapping.

Thank you both for being here.

It is gripping and such an important story for more to see.

Jennifer, you were nine when you were kidnapped and you were in that clip that we saw right there talking about the kidnappers taking the children one by one out of the van. Can you take us back to what happened then?

JENNIFER BROWN HYDE, CHOWCHILLA KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: For me at that point the nightmare actually just started because at the time that we were driven around in the vans we were together and had gotten used to that atmosphere. And then once they removed us from the vans, it was a whole nother nightmare that was beginning to unfold with the unknown terror of what are they going to do with us next?

MATTINGLY: Paul, I became familiar with this based on promos on CNN.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And I'm kind of stunned by that. One, why did it slip from the national consciousness, and, two, how did you find out about it?

PAUL SOLET, DIRECTOR, "CHOWCHILLA": Yes, I had the same reaction. You know, when I learned about the kidnapping a number of years ago just doing research for a scripted project and I had the exact same reaction, I was completely shocked, I had never heard of it before. It really is one of the most bizarre crimes I think in American history.

As I started looking at the research, at the previous coverage, I was really sort of struck by how little there was about the escape that had taken place, and I think even more so how little there was in the way of follow-up with the kids over the years.

And, you know, as I started reaching out and getting to know some of the survivors, I really fell in love with them and was just incredibly moved by what they had been through, not just that day but really ever since, just trying to sort of reclaim what was taken from them that day.

HARLOW: Jennifer, what was that like for you, as a survivor, exactly what Paul is talking about, as a survivor but of something that really did slip from the national consciousness in many ways as you were still having to endure and live through and work through the trauma?

HYDE: It's been a life-long struggle of trying to be normal when your childhood is stolen from you. And my life was never the same from that moment at nine years old. It's had such an impact on not only myself, but my parents and how they parented. And then also myself, as I have raised my own children. You don't think about the overall effects of the generations that this has touched upon and the unknown life that it's led for all of us.

MATTINGLY: Paul, I think to that point, in the film itself I think the effect on childhood trauma, learning about childhood trauma, that these survivors I think demonstrated to some degree, what did you take from it?

SOLET: I think, you know, one of the interesting things is that at the time there was just a much less sophisticated understanding of what childhood trauma was about and what the effects of an event like this would have on kids. There was a lot of focus on were they physically harmed? And, you know, they were -- their parents, you know, for instance, were instructed to ignore their nightmares, you know, that they would go away if they didn't dwell upon these things. And, you know, we now understand that that's actually the exact opposite of what they needed. You know, they were -- the kids were actually taken to Disneyland, which I think was a really lovely sort of sweet gesture that a lot of kids really appreciated. But I think it's also indicative of the lack of sophistication in the understanding of what childhood trauma is like. You know, the idea that you could replace, you know, such a severe, traumatic memory with a good one and sort of eclipse it is just sort of a very naive conception.

HARLOW: Jennifer, what does it mean to you that this story is finally being told?

[09:00:02]

HYDE: I hope that it shares a message of hope and inspiration for others because the life-long effects that it's had on the survivors is something that we share as a bond that nobody else could possibly understand. And the fact that we have each other to lean upon and try to get through life's experiences is great.

HARLOW: Yes. HYDE: But I hope that other people who have been through any type of child trauma can see a sense of hope and inspiration and (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Jennifer Brown Hyde and Paul Solet -- looks like we lost the connection at the end -- thank you both.

And be sure to tune in to the all-new CNN film "Chowchilla" that premieres this Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only right here on CNN.

Thank you for being with us. Have a great weekend. We'll see you back here Monday.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" is now.