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CNN This Morning

Israel Ramps Up Airstrikes as Ground Assault Expands; U.S. Destroyer Shoots Down Drones Over Red Sea; U.S. Trying to Get Negotiations Back on Track; Trump, DeSantis Campaign in Iowa Ahead of Caucuses. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 04, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:21]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us on this Monday. I'm Poppy Harlow, with Phil Mattingly in New York.

This morning, we are watching growing threats of the Israel/Hamas war spreading to a much wider conflict. New overnight, the Israeli military ramping up air strikes after announcing it was expanding its ground assault to the entire Gaza Strip, including in South. That is where so many civilians have fled.

The IDF says the strikes destroyed 200 Hamas targets.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: That happening as the U.S. Navy destroyer came to the rescue of three commercial ships that were attacked by Iran-backed Houthi rebels. The Pentagon says the destroyer shot down drones and one of the commercial ships was attacked with a ballistic missile.

We're also keeping a close eye on Israel's Northern border with Lebanon, where Israeli forces have been exchanging fire with Hezbollah.

This morning, the IDF says three Israeli soldiers were hurt by mortar shells fired from Lebanon.

We have team coverage from Jerusalem to the White House and the Pentagon. Let's start with CNN's Ben Wedeman in Jerusalem.

Ben, Israel expanding the operation to the entire Gaza Strip over the weekend. The biggest question right now, where the civilians that have all moved to the South at the IDF's request supposed to go?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's, I think, a question for the many people in Gaza are asking, we know that more than 80 percent of the population of Gaza is already displaced.

Many have gone to the South. Now the Israelis have, over social media, put out a map showing hundreds of individual blocks that are numbered. And in theory, people can go onto that map. There's a QR code, and know where is safe and where is not. The problem is most people in Gaza don't have electricity to charge their phones; don't have an Internet connection. And therefore, they're very much really left to their own devices.

And of course, another problem is, already the shelters, the schools that have been converted into shelters in Gaza are already crammed with people, as many as 4 to 500 people per toilet, if there's even an toilet.

And therefore, when they hear that the Israelis are going to expand their ground operations to the entirety of the Gaza Strip that really doesn't leave anything anywhere, for anybody to go that could possibly be safe -- Phil, Poppy.

HARLOW: We saw on Saturday, fighting in the North of Israel across the border with Lebanon, with Hezbollah saying one of their fighters was killed.

You spent so much time reporting in Lebanon on Hezbollah. What does that indicate to you? Does that indicate the beginning of a broader, an expansion of this to the North and, more broadly, between not just Israel and Hamas but Israel and Hezbollah?

WEDEMAN: Well, starting on the 8th of October, Hezbollah basically entered into this fight with limited strikes on Israeli positions in some communities on the other side of the border.

But it's worth noting that, during the seven-day truce, they also observed the truce. They did not opened fire, but what we've seen since the truce broke down on Friday morning, there's been a real intensification of the back-and-forth fire between Hezbollah and the Israelis.

I've been in touch with Ivan Watson, who's our correspondent in South Lebanon. At the moment, he says there are -- there's hourly shelling back and forth, and that seems to be far more intense than what we were witnessing when I spent several weeks in Southern Lebanon before the truce went into effect -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. It's quite telling. Ben Wedeman, reporting for us in Jerusalem. Thank you very much, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, Poppy, as Ben was just talking about, those exchanges in the North just the latest example that every hour the threat that America could get dragged directly into the war seems to grow.

This morning, the U.S. military says a U.S. Navy destroyer and three commercial ships were attacked in an hours-long assault from the Red Sea.

The U.S. says the attackers launched ballistic missiles and drones that hit three ships linked to several countries, including Israel. The Navy sent the USS Carney to respond and shoot down those drones in self-defense.

[06:05:04] The U.S. blaming the attack on rebels backed by Iran, operating in Yemen. It is the largest attack targeting ships in the region, and it's stoking fears of a wider conflict.

Want to bring in CNN's Natasha Bertrand, who joins us live from the Pentagon.

And Natasha, before I start with you, just to give kind of an example for people on the map of where this is all happening, obviously, Israel up here, Ben talking about what's happening in the North near Lebanon. Syria is also an area where proxies have been operating.

We're talking specifically in this area here: the Red Sea, down in Yemen, which also has proxy organizations tied to Iran. They have been a significant player in the dozens of attacks on U.S. ships, on other commercial ships over the course of the last several weeks.

I think the big question right now, particularly in the wake of those hostage negotiations breaking down, that pause coming to an end, is this a sign that an escalation is coming, or is this just a return to what we saw the six of seven weeks before that pause?

NATASHA BERNARD, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Phil, this was a particularly active day, to say the least, in the Red Sea, with the USS carney responding to multiple attacks by what the U.S. Central Command says are these Iran-backed Houthi rebels who operate in Yemen.

And this is certainly an escalation from what we have seen in the past. This is a number of attacks, four attacks on three separate commercial vessels in the Southern Red Sea, including one attack in which the Houthis used a ballistic missile.

Now, the USS Carney responded to each of these attacks which occurred on Sunday at several different times throughout the day and many of them resulted in damage to these commercial vessels in the Southern Red Sea.

And the U.S. now says that this is really, really dangerous, obviously. Not only did the USS Carney respond to these attacks, but they also shot down a number of drones that were launched from these Houthi-controlled territories in Yemen, according to Central Command.

So clearly, they're taking advantage right now of the tumult in the region of all of the U.S. presence in the region to try to attack these ships. And the Houthi-run Yemeni armed forces actually acknowledged these attacks in a statement yesterday, saying that they will continue to wage these attacks against these, quote, "Israeli ships and those aligned with Israel," standing in solidarity, they say, with the Palestinians.

In a statement, U.S. Central Command said that these attacks represent a, quote, "direct threat" to international commerce and maritime security. They say that "they have jeopardized the lives of international crews representing dozens -- multiple countries around the world," as many as 14 different countries. And importantly, they said that they have every reason to believe that these attacks are fully enabled by Iran. Now, the big question is how the U.S. is going to respond.

Of course, we've seen the U.S. military strike these Iran-backed groups in Iraq and Syria over the last several weeks. But Yemen, whether they're going to go after the Houthis in Yemen, that remains an entirely different question. But they said that they will consider all appropriate responses in full coordination with allies and partners -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Natasha Bertrand for the Pentagon, thank you.

HARLOW: Hostage negotiations with Hamas are at a standstill this morning. A source says the breakdown in talks came after Israel continued to insist on the release of a group of women that Hamas has refused.

Now the militant group says there will be no deal to release hostages without, quote, "a permanent ceasefire." And the White House is working around the clock and behind the scenes to try to at least bring everyone back to the table as soon as today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: We are still working it really hard, hour by hour, to see if we can't get the sides back to the table and see if we can't get something moving. We would like that to happen today, but honestly, I just don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Arlette Saenz joins us from the White House. And today was yesterday. That was Sunday. And they're still not back at the table. What is the White House belief in terms of its ability to bring them back to the table? Israel has said no way on a permanent ceasefire, and it sounds like that is Hamas's line now.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's clearly some major divisions when it comes to trying to get back to the negotiating table between Israel and Hamas, but U.S. officials say they are pushing the two parties to try to return to the negotiating table to get these conversations back on track.

A senior administration official telling us that the U.S. remains committed to pursuing every effort possible to get those hostages back home, including they believe eight American hostages still being held in captivity.

But as you noted, these talks have broken down. Israel and the U.S. saying that Hamas has not followed the terms of agreement, and Hamas saying now that they will not talk about the release of hostages until there is a more permanent ceasefire.

So it remains unclear whether there is any hope in the immediate future to get those hostages out as these hostilities between Israel and Hamas have resumed.

At the same time, the U.S. is also going to great lengths to privately and publicly pressure Israel to take more efforts to protect civilians as they're expanding their operation in Gaza.

You heard very forceful words from Vice President Kamala Harris and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin over the weekend, saying that more needs to be done to protect Palestinian civilian lives.

[06:10:10]

Austin saying that it is a strategic imperative for Israel as they are waging their campaign.

And just last night, Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with the prime minister of Qatar, who pushed for a longer ceasefire and de- escalation. The White House has said that they believe Israel is receptive to their calls about protecting civilian lives. But time will tell if they are taking the measures that the U.S. exactly wants to see in this moment.

MATTINGLY: Arlette, since we have you, I want to ask you about something that's breaking this morning that you and the White House team have been reporting on.

Shalanda Young, the budget director, sending a letter to Capitol Hill leaders, Republican and Democrat, with some very, very stark language about their funding requests, particularly as it pertains to Ukraine, saying there is no magical pot of money.

If there is no action on it in the next couple of weeks that it will, quote, "kneecap" Ukraine's war effort. How real a concern is this right now in the building behind you?

SAENZ: Well, it's a huge concern. This is something the administration has been pushing for for some time. The OMB director, Shalanda Young, wrote in very blunt terms that time is running out to provide further aid to Ukraine.

I want to read you a portion of that letter that went to congressional leaders, including House Speaker Mike Johnson. She said, "I want to be clear: without congressional action by the end of the year, we will run out of resources to provide more -- procure more weapons and equipment for Ukraine and to provide equipment from U.S. stocks. There is no magical pot of funding available to meet this moment. We are running out of money and nearly out of time."

She added, "Cutting off the flow of weapons and equipment will kneecap Ukraine on the battlefield, not only putting at risk the gains Ukraine has made but increasing the likelihood of Russian military victories.

Now he administration has asked for a little over $60 billion in funding for Ukraine as part of that larger $106 billion supplemental funding request. But that there has been serious resistance up on Capitol Hill. Republicans want to see policy changes when it comes to border security measures. But the White House this morning is stressing that this is a very real need that needs to be met for Ukraine and warning what would happen is there is inaction.

HARLOW: Arlette Saenz at the White House, thank you very much.

MATTINGLY: The Biden reelection campaign targeting Donald Trump's vow to repeal and replace Obamacare. How the president's team plans to use it to their advantage.

HARLOW: Also, Liz Cheney making what she calls a dire warning about democracy. Why she says putting Trump back in the White House could be the end of our republic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, FORMER WYOMING REPRESENTATIVE: One of the things that we see happening today is a sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:27]

MATTINGLY: This morning, we have a clock. We're six weeks from the Iowa caucuses, the first test of the 2024 Republican presidential primary. With pressure on to save his struggling campaign, Governor Ron DeSantis this weekend completed his tour of all of Iowa's 99 counties, the full Grassley. DeSantis believes he will win Iowa, and he took a swipe at the frontrunner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL By the fact that I'm willing to do this, that should show you that I consider myself a servant, not a ruler.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Nikki Haley did not have any public events scheduled in Iowa over the weekend, but look at that. There's an ad. She did start running ads there for the first time as she is rising in the polls.

And the former president and Republican front-runner appears to be looking past the primary and zeroing in on President Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't like corrupt politicians like Joe Biden. Without question, this is the worst president, most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America, without question. And I promise you this: if you put me back in the White House, their reign will over, and America will be a free nation once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: With us at the table this morning, strategic communications expert and former Republican strategist and pollster Lee Carter. Welcome to the program. CNN political commentator, former deputy assistant to President Biden, Jamal Simmons; and CNN anchor and senior political analyst, John Avlon.

Morning, guys.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR/SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

HARLOW: Nikki Haley, ads, but you think she hasn't really been playing there, and that's a mistake?

AVLON: I think that right now, there's a lot of folks who are coalescing around Nikki Haley, and DeSantis is in real trouble. I mean, when you flip your CEO, your super PAC, you know.

HARLOW: Nine days.

AVLON: Nine days. That's not a sign of strength. That's chaos.

HARLOW: Not eight, Avlon.

AVLON: That's true. It's not -- it's not a full-scale Scaramucci. But -- but in all seriousness, I think it's very clear that grass-top (ph) leaders in Iowa are looking for an alternative to Donald Trump. That's why Governor Kim Reynolds backed DeSantis a while ago. She may be having second thoughts.

Bob Vander Plaats, evangelical leader.

And the No. 1 criteria for Iowa caucus-goers is someone who can beat President Biden, if you're a Republican opposite.

Polls show Nikki Haley is best positioned to do that. And the momentum gain in presidential primaries cannot be underestimated. I'm just saying, while folks are flooding the zone for Nikki Haley, I think she might do better than expected. You shouldn't -- you shouldn't abandon Iowa either.

HARLOW: She's got Koch money now.

AVLON: She's got -- she's got that. Huge amount of Koch money.

MATTINGLY: So but every kind of pathway to Nikki becoming a real viable competitor, is she has to win New Hampshire. Do you agree? Do you think Iowa is critical, she needs to be there more than just run TV ads?

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: She needs to have something in Iowa and New Hampshire, South Carolina. One of those has to go her direction. And right now the polls are so staggering in favor of Donald Trump.

But even though we're talking about momentum with Nikki Haley, you look at it, she's not really breaking more than 20 points in any single state. Fifty-three percent South Carolina; 54 percent Iowa; 42 percent New Hampshire.

It's going to be a tough, tough slog. And the only way I see that any candidate could beat is if others go out. So it's got to be just a one-on-one. And I don't think DeSantis is showing any signs of dropping out.

HARLOW: Jamal, what about this fight over Obamacare? President Biden seems to think this is a win for them. DeSantis says he has a plan in the spring. We haven't seen it yet.

And -- but you are actually complimenting Trump, saying he's seeing something in the polls and playing to it effectively on this front.

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. This is the difference between a Republican primary and the general electorate, right? So if you go and you look inside that Kaiser, KFF, poll, what you see is that Republicans, only 73 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of Obamacare, right?

The Iowa caucus in 2016 was 97 percent white. Among white -- among white citizens in that Kaiser poll, it is 62 percent -- I'm sorry, 97 percent -- I'm sorry, 47 percent of whites now polled think that -- it's unpopular, that Obamacare is unpopular. Right?

So here's the thing. If you're a Republican -- if you're a Republican, what you believe is, your voters don't like Obamacare, so you want to go out and campaign against Obamacare while everybody else they might be for it in the general election.

Here's what Donald Trump knows. He knows that he's dexterous. He can switch his opinion from the primary to the general, and nobody's going to hold him accountable. Why do we know that? Because nobody ever holds him accountable. And that's the reason why --

HARLOW: Except the courts. Three times, including the Supreme Court struck down, including two justices that he appointed, his attempts to overturn Obamacare. I guess he assumes voters aren't going to --

SIMMONS: Voters aren't going to hold him accountable. He hasn't been held accountable by the Republican electorate. I don't think he's particularly worried about it.

AVLON: Supersede is a new DeSantis fancy word for "repeal and replace." There hasn't been a replace plan in the past decade for the attempts to overturn Obamacare.

You're talking about a poll that's gotten -- a policy that's gotten more popular, not less, to Jamal's point, over the last decade and which -- it impacts more than one out of ten every Americans.

So this idea that, you know, you're going to supersede it in DeSantis' world and replace it with something more transparent, more affordable is just B.S. Because the Republicans haven't been able to put anything forward.

SIMMONS: More chocolate, more candy, and less calories. That doesn't work out.

CARTER: That's what we're running on. No.

But the truth of the matter is -- the truth of the matter is, look, 77 percent of Americans are dissatisfied with the healthcare system in America. That's not saying anything about Obamacare.

So yes, it is a Republican primary. It is very -- 7 in 10 Republicans have a negative view of Obamacare, but 70 percent are dissatisfied with healthcare. So there's an easy way to pivot and say we're going to replace -- we're going to replace Obamacare --

AVLON: With? What's the next step?

CARTER: We're superseding. Come on. I was obsessed with this word. Because I, as a word person, it's like --

AVLON: Weasel word.

CARTER: It's a weasel word, but it's -- it's sort of like to make it relevant. It's a plan. It's more than repeal and replace. It's something new. But I thought that was amazing that it did not have an answer. We're going to show it what it is in the spring, was an answer.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: I deeply appreciate the use of a thesaurus.

SIMMONS: I appreciate the better use of stats than me. My brain at 6 a.m. is not --

MATTINGLY: What's fascinating to me no one other candidate wanted to touch this with a ten-foot pole, because they all remember 2018.

CARTER: Sure.

MATTINGLY: Trump mentions it. Likely -- you give him credit on polling. I think he was just pissed about a "Wall Street Journal" editorial.

Now, every other candidate has to walk into this buzzsaw. And I think -- I don't know. I just think it's going to be fascinating to watch how it plays out, because there is a general election at some point.

You guys are coming back. I have spoken, and therefore, we're out of time. We'll go through it. Lee, Jamal, John, please stay with us.

SIMMONS: Go Blue. Go Blue.

MATTINGLY: Why are you doing that?

HARLOW: Do not -- do not do that to Phil.

MATTINGLY: It is -- it is inappropriate.

HARLOW: Sorry, Phil. We'll talk about football later.

Donald Trump tries to turn the table on central campaign messages from President Biden. Get this: over the weekend, Trump claims Biden is the destroyer of democracy. We'll talk about it.

MATTINGLY: Plus, you can tell Poppy is probably excited. College football playoffs.

HARLOW: I actually am.

MATTINGLY: The Final Four teams are set for the playoffs, but one coach says he's quote, "disgusted and infuriated" at the draw. That's next.

HARLOW: I actually love this story, now, after I read a lot about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:27:42]

MATTINGLY: It's the horror, the reality of war on full display in Jabalya refugee camp in Northern Gaza. Children crying out for their relatives, including their father, who they couldn't find after an air strike this weekend.

The Hamas-run Ministry of Health says more than 15,000 people have been killed in Gaza since the war began.

HARLOW: This morning, the Israeli operation is expanding in the South where many people, millions were told to evacuate. Caravans of people fled Khan Younis yesterday after the Israeli military warned them to leave.

The United Nations reports up to 1.8 million people have been displaced within Gaza itself. Just keep in mind how small Gaza is. That is 80 percent of its population.

MATTINGLY: Top U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urging Israel to limit civilian casualties as it resumes airstrikes and its ground incursion against Hamas. Austin calling it, quote, "strategic imperative" and warns Israel risks driving more people in Gaza toward extremism.

HARLOW: Joining us now, former White House foreign policy advisor in the George W. Bush administration, Dan Senor.

Dan, great to have you.

DAN SENOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR: Good morning.

HARLOW: I should note for people, you have been pretty supportive of how President Biden --

SENOR: Yes.

HARLOW: -- has been responding to Israel. But over the past couple of days, we've seen Vice President Harris on her trip, saying as Israel defends itself, it matters how.

We saw John Kirby yesterday saying, basically, Israel, don't move into the South unless you've accounted for these civilians. And we all know Blinken has said too many Palestinian civilians have died.

Israel does not seem, at least on the surface, to be heeding any of those warnings. Is it because Netanyahu doesn't think there will be any repercussions?

SENOR: First of all, I think --

HARLOW: Biden will remain steadfast?

SENOR: I think it's not just Netanyahu. It's the Israeli political consensus.

What I think folks over here observing don't fully appreciate is it used to be that you would define Israeli politics and policymaking, but Netanyahu is an incredibly polarizing figure.

But the voice he has and the policy he has on Gaza and Hamas represents the entire Israeli political spectrum, from the left to the right, which views Hamas as a mortal threat. It views Hamas as an existential threat to Israel.

Israel can choose when to fight and choose how to fight. One thing it can't choose is where Hamas chooses to fight. Hamas is choosing to fight in civilian areas.

So in every one of those statements you hear from U.S. officials, they constantly hear, Israel has a right to self-defense but -- and then you hear the caveats. Some of the caveats are, I think, a little more unrealistic than others. Like Kamala Harris's comments in Dubai.

But even if you listen to Blinken's statements, it's "yes, but." And then he lays these sort of caveats out.

But Israelis hear, we have a right to defend ourselves. And if we have a right to defend ourselves.

[06:30:00]