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CNN This Morning

Atmospheric River Pummels Northwest; Ground Operation Could End by January; Tonight's GOP Debate; Jayapal Condemns Hamas' Sexual Violence. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 06, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: It's funding runs out.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also, new air strikes and intense fighting in Gaza this morning. Why the United States now, interestingly, believes that Israel's ground campaign in Gaza though could pretty much end or really narrow in weeks not months. We'll explain ahead.

MATTINGLY: And take a look at this. New video showing Coast Guard members rescuing people from flooded roads in Washington state as a powerful atmospheric river of rain and snow pummel the Pacific Northwest. The flash flooding has killed two people in Oregon.

Meteorologist Derek Van Dam is tracking more rain moving in right now.

Derek, what are you looking at?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS CERTIFIED METEOROLOGIST: Yes, nearly 10 inches of rain has fallen with this atmospheric river event, forcing some rivers to overflow their banks, flooding businesses, some homes and even farms. You can see the rainfall accumulation centered across western Washington and Oregon.

Check this out. Some rivers have been forced to major flood stage. Record level territory there. More rain along the coast, snow across the spine of the Rockies.

This is what it looked like yesterday in Granite Falls, Washington. Quite a sight.

CNN THIS MORNING will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:27]

MATTINGLY: Take a look at this. Just moments ago a massive explosion in Gaza as the war between Israel and Hamas continues to intensify. The Israeli military said it has launched more than 250 air strikes targeting Hamas cells and terrorists. Israel also says this photo - this video shows a weapons cache, including hundreds of missiles, rocket launchers and explosives stockpiled near a school and clinic in northern Gaza.

HARLOW: So, fighting is still raging deeper into southern Gaza with house to house battles reported in the enclave's second largest city of Khan Younis. And many Gazans evacuated there when the operation in the north first began.

MATTINGLY: And the United Nations calls the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, quote, "apocalyptic." Now U.S. officials tell CNN it's possible the current ground offensive in southern Gaza could be done by January.

HARLOW: Let's bring in CNN military analyst General Mark Hertling.

And let's start right where Phil ended. I was surprised reading this headline that came late yesterday from CNN's reporting. That - I mean that's weeks away, right, if we're talking about January, that it would dramatically change, this house to house fighting would change and it would be, according to our reporting, a lower intensity, hyper localized strategy that targets Hamas militants and leaders. Speak to that. And also, why wouldn't they be doing that now given all the concern about civilian casualties?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Poppy, I'm going to give you some military realities from a soldier's perspectives. Three things are always important. Number one, you can't pronounce the names of the town you're fighting in, number two, you never have enough maps to know where you're going, and, number three, there's always telling you - there's always someone telling you that operations are going to end quicker they were. I'm skeptical. At the end of a - beginning of January, I don't think so.

If the end of operations means Israel has reached their strategic objective of destroying Hamas, there's no way that that's going to happen by the end of this month. And I'm skeptical of anyone who says that it will happen by then.

In 2014, as we've talked about before, in the operation in Gaza, Israel took about three months to complete their mission and then get out. We're at the end of that, and this is a much larger operation and it has a much larger, strategic objective.

MATTINGLY: General, can you talk about the fight that's happening right now. I think, to some degree, the IDF moved faster in northern Gaza than maybe even - at least some U.S. officials expected, but the fight now seems very intense and is growing. What's happening on the ground?

HERTLING: Well, a couple things, Phil. You know, first of all, you're still fighting that subterranean battle. Israel is still having to go underneath to destroy and find tunnels, shafts and - and make sure the enemy is not in there. But you're also seeing, you know, a displacement of Hamas soldiers from the north to the center to Darbali (ph) and also Khan Younis. And the urban combat going on in that area are both below ground in the tunnels but also above ground in high- rise complexes. You know, when U.S. soldiers fought in either Iraq or Afghanistan, the

most they had to clear in terms of buildings were one or two-story buildings. You're talking about high-rise complex that have, as you showed in the film a minute ago, a lot of munitions caches, a lot of enemy terrorists and the fact that there's so many - so many civilians on the battlefield in both of these areas that I think Israel is taking it a little bit slower, they're trying to corner off different areas and at the same time they're using more precision and smaller precision weapons to strike the kind of targets they've been striking from the very beginning.

HARLOW: To the crucial question of, to quote General Petraeus before going into Iraq, tell me how this ends, tell me how this ends.

Listen to Benjamin Netanyahu talking about this. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Gaza must be demilitarized. And in order for Gaza to be demilitarized, there is only one force that can insure this, and that force is the Israel Defense Forces. No international force can take responsibility for this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Realistic? Possible? Is he right? That is counter to what the U.S. has said, what surrounding Arab nations have said.

HERTLING: Yes, what I heard, Poppy, was he said the Israeli Defense Forces can continue the operation. And I think he's talking about the kinetic battlefield, the war fight, if you will.

But as old dead Carl Clausewitz once said, war is politics by other means.

[06:40:01]

There will have to be an eventual time when the fighting stops and some type of politics takes over, whether it's the running of the government, the establishment of water and food and distribution to the citizens, all of that is part of any operation in terms of post- battle requirements. Israel is not going to be able to do that. They will not be able to take over this area of operation and care for the 2-plus-million people, Palestinians that are in Gaza, remaining, if they do have the ability to destroy all of Hamas. And that's subjective as well because Hamas isn't a thing, it's an ideology with a lot of terrorists fighting on its behalf.

HARLOW: That's really central to how you deal with it.

General Mark Hertling, as always, thanks very, very much.

HERTLING: Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: Well, breaking overnight, in Texas, six people are killed in a shooting spree across two cities. We're going to tell you the latest.

HARLOW: And who will break through the noise on the GOP debate stage tonight. One candidate gives a glimpse at his game plan, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:22]

MATTINGLY: Well, tonight, former presidential candidates will try to paint themselves as the Republican alternative to Donald Trump, just six weeks before the Iowa caucuses.

HARLOW: Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, Vivek Ramaswamy will debate in Tuscaloosa at the university of Alabama. Donald Trump will skip this debate, just like he skipped the others. And Ramaswamy is giving his competitors a little glimpse of what he'll likely do on stage tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're in the middle of a race, and there are some deep differences in this party, and I don't intend to play with kid gloves and you shouldn't want people vetted for running for U.S. president to sit across the table from Xi Jinping (INAUDIBLE) playing with kid gloves either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: With us now, CNN political commentator, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish.

Great to see you.

I don't think it's a surprise that Vivek Ramaswamy is not going to put his kid gloves on, but I am interested in what you think about tonight writ large. These debates have been great for Nikki Haley. Is this hers tonight? What are you looking at?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It feels like the battle for number two. I mean Nikki Haley is the only one among the four that I think is ascendant, although maybe Ron DeSantis got some added visibility from the debate with Gavin Newsom.

One of the factors tonight is, is anybody going to watch, because the ratings have been in decline as these debates have progressed. It's now the start of the holiday season. This one might be a little bit difficult to actually find on the television dial tonight. So, I don't know that it's really going to matter.

And the issue for Nikki Haley is, I can see her securing the second position, particularly in New Hampshire, but can she ever get to number one? And the only way she gets - or any of them get to number one is if Donald Trump comes down to couple of notches and here to for only Chris Christie has been willing to take him on. That hasn't generated any great benefit for Chris Christie.

So, Poppy, it's that same issue of, how do I run against Donald Trump but really not square off against Donald Trump.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes.

MATTINGLY: So, Michael, you had a clip and save moment that I appreciated last week where you predicted that neither frontrunner would actually be in the race by the time it's all said and done. Democrat and Republican. So who -- who makes the numbers go down? How do the numbers go down for Donald Trump if that scenario is going to play out?

SMERCONISH: It all depends on the timing. And I think that it gets determined not now, not in January or February, but probably March. I mean the critical question for Trump as I see it is whether the January 6th federal case, pending if front of Judge Tanya Chutkan, actually gets to trial and has some resolution before the end of March. By the end of March, in round numbers, 75 percent of the votes will have been determined. So, I'm not predicting it, I am floating the idea because this is such a crazy cycle, I've never seen anything like it. And what I said is, it wouldn't surprise me if, in the end, it's neither of the above. But it will take a number of factors to occur.

I mean consider the fact that the president just said, President Biden, that he wouldn't be running if Donald Trump wasn't running. He's already trying to position this, I think, as a referendum on Trump because that was a successful strategy for him in 2020.

HARLOW: OK, then let's talk about who it could be. And Liz Cheney, listen to what she said with our Anderson Cooper last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (R-WY): There's a huge amount of work to be done after this election cycle, whether it's rebuilding the Republican Party, which increasingly looks like, you know, maybe an impossible task, or helping to begin a new party that's very focused on what the Republican Party used to stand for before this cult of personality. But right now, and in this election cycle, I'll do whatever I have to do to make sure Donald Trump's not elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And that, whatever it takes, Michael, refers to, according to her interview with "The Washington Post," weighing, at least thinking about mounting a third-party candidacy for the White House. Who --

SMERCONISH: Pardon my cynicism.

HARLOW: Yes, go ahead.

SMERCONISH: This is not a conversation we were having last week.

HARLOW: I know.

SMERCONISH: What has changed? Ah-ha, here's the brand-new book. I mean what perfect timing to launch a book and talk about a presidential campaign.

I don't see a path, if she were to do it. The Republicans that she would need are Chris Christie Republicans, and there aren't many of them. Look at where he is in the polls. Democrats, they love Liz Cheney. When she's a member of the January 6th commission, but her platform is an anathema to Democrats should they ever look at it. It's just not in the cards.

MATTINGLY: Michael, the comments from the former president about - as Sean Hannity desperately tried to get him to say he wouldn't be a dictator, saying he wouldn't be, just for one day. What did you make of those?

SMERCONISH: Phil, he's crazy like a fox. Like I -- there's so much concern, legitimate concern I think, as to what a second Trump presidency would look like.

[06:50:06]

"The Atlantic" dedicating their entire issue as a warning about a Trump candidacy and presidency. When I heard it, though, and then I replayed it, and, of course, now it's being shown on a loop, I said to myself, he's just redefined what dictatorship means because to him it means, closing the border and drilling. And he gives cover now to his base to say, yes, they call him a dictator. If dictatorship means no more porous borders and drilling for oil in the United States, then I'm for dictatorship. That's, I think, what he was really doing.

MATTINGLY: Michael Smerconish, we appreciate it, as always, my friend. Thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks, Michael.

SMERCONISH: See you guys.

HARLOW: All right, see you soon.

We have new exclusive CNN reporting on the election interference case in Georgia. Who prosecutors, a big name by the way, added to their witness list in the case against Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: And we go inside the effort to care for the youngest and most defenseless civilians if Gaza, dozens of premature babies rescued from a hospital under siege. You'll see how they're doing now.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

This morning, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal walking back what she said right here on CNN to our Dana Bash about Hamas and its use of sexual violence against women.

MATTINGLY: In a new statement issued yesterday, Jayapal says she, quote, "unequivocally condemns Hamas' use of rape and sexual violence as an act of war."

[06:55:00]

It comes after the Progressive Caucus chair said this to Dana Bash on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Rape is horrific. Sexual assault is horrific. I think that it happens in war situations. Terrorist organizations, like Hamas, obviously are using these as tools. However, I think we have to be balanced about bringing in the outrages against Palestinians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It was the balance part that set off a firestorm among her Democratic colleagues in the House.

HARLOW: Back with us, Lee Carter, Lulu Garcia-Navarro and Kate Bedingfield.

Kate, just begin with you again on this. The White House has been explicit in its view on this, but there has been division among especially some progressive Democrats in Congress. And that was quite a reversal Congresswoman Jayapal had to do. What is your read on this and the significance of it and why can't just be clear right off the bat to explicitly denounce Hamas' rape and sexual attacks on Israeli women?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm not sure why to be honest with you. And I think that what Congresswoman Jayapal did in issuing the statement was smart and good. She should have done it more quickly. But, you know, it shows that there is powerful - there's a powerful poll to ensure that - that we're being clear about -- about -- talking about how awful these atrocities are.

I think, you know, across -- the fact that there's a split amongst Democrats on this I think is troubling. I think the politics of this are, you know - I think, first of all, the moral clarity should be - should be clear. And I think the politics of this are troubling.

So, I think what the congresswoman did in issuing this statement was - was right and smart. I think she should have done it sooner. And I think it also - the whole - I think the entire thing shows how difficult it is to talk about the awful atrocities that are going on there in a way that doesn't inflame both sides. It makes it hard to have a meaningful discourse, and that's - that's challenging when there are - are really difficult and nuanced problems to tackle.

But that's a very long and maybe inarticulate way of saying I think the congresswoman is right, she should have - to issue this statement and she probably should have done it more quickly. She certainly should have done it more quickly.

HARLOW: Yes. MATTINGLY: Not at all inarticulate because I think it gets at a point, particularly for Kate's party right now. One, this is really hard. This is very complex stuff based over decades. How long lasting is the political division inside the party? Could it last until 2024?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I think so. I think if you talk to young progressives in particular they are feeling very aggrieved. And I think that that is what the congresswoman was speaking to. There's a lot of pressure from the progressive left at the moment that is looking at this conflict, that is looking at the position of President Biden in this conflict as being very pro-Israeli, not really taking the Palestinian point of view in the way that they deem is important. And they're putting a lot of pressure -- and we are coming into an election and these votes are going to be crucial. And you're seeing a lot of pushback.

HARLOW: I think one of the issues is, though, Dana was asking Congresswoman Jayapal specifically about the rape and sexual assault of these women, right? And -- and even in that answer she pivoted, right, which makes your point.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: She pivoted, which I think is - which I think is - is - I mean you can answer the question and just put a full stop it.

HARLOW: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't know why she chose to then conflate a completely different thing. And I think it was disastrous, as you've seen. And I think she rightly had blowback. But I think it shows that there's a lots of push within the Democratic progressive base to have their leaders, especially the progressive leaders, answer to the Palestinian cause.

MATTINGLY: Lee, on Ukraine funding, that is an issue that splits Republicans pretty dramatically. We've seen it play on Capitol Hill. I'm - I've seen the polls. I know how voters have shifted on this issue.

Do you think that this gets over the finish line, or has the changing sentiment shifted the legislative calculus as well?

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT AND FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND POLLSTER: Well, I'm not sure it gets over the finish line, but I think the -- one of the reasons I think Donald Trump remains so popular is that he's able to transcend this issue and say, it wouldn't even be an issue if I were in office. It wasn't before and so it's not going to be an issue now.

What's happening with funding, I don't know how the Republicans are going to get through this with the majority that they have. I think it's just - it's - it's a - it's a really tough one and they're trying to tie it to so many different things. I think - I think that it's a hot potato issue. It's going to be tough.

MATTINGLY: I mean the idea that immigration would be difficult to figure out after the last several decades in just a couple of weeks, that's --

CARTER: Yes, I know.

MATTINGLY: I guess - I - it's --

CARTER: It's mind-blowing.

MATTINGLY: It's - it's is mind-blowing indeed.

Lee Carter, Lulu Garcia-Navarro, Kate Bedingfield, we appreciate -- this was fun and smart and we really appreciate it.

CARTER: Yes.

HARLOW: Thank you, guys, very much.

MATTINGLY: And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would never abuse power --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Except for day one.

[07:00:00]

LIZ CHENEY, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN (R-WY): Anybody who says we can count on the balance of power, that's really wishful thinking that we can't afford.