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CNN This Morning

Cheney Weighs Third-Party Run; Biden Discusses Grief with Cooper. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 06, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Individual or a committee in charge of security. Understand one's surroundings. Really identify what one's resources are available to you that one could deploy to enhance the security of one's institution, and then we make actually explicit recommendations with respect to how to increase ones security, whether it's hiring a security guard, building fencing, installing cameras, making sure one's congregation is alert to the threat environment. You -- one has relationships with local law enforcement, et cetera. We really lay out quite a number of measures that institutions of different capabilities and resources can employ to make themselves feel safe.

We believe that people need to be free to practice their faith and be safe in doing so. That is a fundamental principle on which our country stands.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no question about it. And the sad reality that all of this increased protection is needed for people to do that.

Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, thank you very much for joining us.

MAYORKAS: Thank you, Poppy.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the Israeli military launching more than 250 airstrikes targeting Hamas cells and terrorists. Conditions in Gaza remain, quote, apocalyptic.

HARLOW: Also, former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney floating the idea maybe of a third-party presidential run. Does America want her to run? Our Harry Enten has the numbers, next.

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[08:35:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN (R-WY): Right now, and in this election cycle, I'll do whatever I have to do to make sure Donald Trump's not elected. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That is former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney with CNN's Anderson Cooper last night saying she's committed to doing whatever it takes to stop Donald Trump from returning to the White House. She also floated the idea of a third-party run. But would Americans actually support her?

Well, let's ask the expert. CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten.

Harry, a lot of people mulling third parties.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Some - some are already in. How do Americans feel about Liz Cheney?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, look, I think we're in a great country where someone could literally have the second worst defeat in a House primary in the last 60 years and then potentially float themselves as a third-party candidate two years later. She lost by 37.4 points back in the 2022 Wyoming GOP House primary. It was the second worst defeat in the last 60 years in a House primary.

But let's take a look nationally. National views of Liz Cheney. This was as of last year. A tremendous gap partisanly speaking. She's quite popular among Democrats, a 62 percent favorable rating. But look among Republicans. Of course, she's a former Republican - or at least former Republican congresswoman, just 12 percent. This is something we've seen in the polls over and over and over again. Despite her GOP affiliation, she's far better liked among Democrats than she is among Republicans with that 60 percent unfavorable rating.

MATTINGLY: Slide two explaining slide number one.

ENTEN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Which was cold-blooded to lay that out once again in detail. How do Americans feel about a potential third-party Liz Cheney run?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, this was asked earlier this year. We don't have any polling that's right up to the date. But this was asked earlier this year, supported a Liz Cheney third-party bid for president. Again what we see is this very large partisan split. Fifteen percent of Democrats say they'd support it, versus just 8 percent of Republicans.

And this, I think, is one of the things I think Joe Biden might be worried about heading into 2024. Third-party candidates poll better among, and this is declared or potential candidates, just one poll is better among the GOP or neutral, Kennedy, Democrats, Cheney, Stein, and West all poll better among Democrats. This could be an issue for Biden going forward, especially if Cheney decides to run, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Appreciate you, buddy. Harry Enten, thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Always really interesting.

All right, now to our "Morning Moment" and a heartwarming scene outside a school in Israel. Look at that. That is freed Israeli hostage Amelia Aloni returning to kindergarten for the first time after being held in Gaza for seven weeks. You can see a huge smile on the five-year-old's face as she arrives.

(VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joy. She is seen here being eagerly embraced by her friends and her teachers. Everyone gathered around Amelia, offered her a big hug. She and her mother were taken hostage while visiting family at the Nir Oz kibbutz on October 7th. They were freed on November 24th as part of the deal struck between Israel and Hamas.

MATTINGLY: Well, every one of us has had to deal with grief, including the president of the United States. Joe Biden sat down with Anderson Cooper for his podcast, "All There Is," to discuss how he handles grief. Anderson joins us next.

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[08:42:36]

MATTINGLY: President Biden and CNN's own Anderson Cooper have both been uniquely open about the personal tragedies that have forever shaped their lives. The president joins Anderson for the second episode of the new season of the "All There Is" podcast. Biden talking the great losses of his life and how he copes with grief today. You can download and listen to this episode right now wherever you get your podcasts.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A few days before I spoke with President Biden, I was going through a box of stuff in my basement that belong today my brother Carter. He died by suicide when he was 23. I don't have a lot of pictures of my brother on display in my house. His death is still so painful to me that I find it hard to see his photos.

These two pictures really stunned me. They were taken shortly before Carter graduated from Princeton in 1987. He looked so young and happy. There's no hint that 15 months after this picture was taken he'd kill himself in front of our mom.

Looking at these photos, I don't recognize my brother. And I realized, I don't think I ever really knew him. I didn't allow myself to. And I didn't allow him to know me.

When our dad died, Carter was 12 and I was 10, and it slapped us both into silence. We never spoke about my dad with each other or with anyone. I think my brother would be alive if we had. Why is it so hard to talk about loss and grief? We all go through it.

So, why do we keep it hidden away, crying in private, speak the names of our loved ones in hush whispers only we can hear?

That's why I wanted to talk with President Biden. He's been more public about grief than any American president in history. And this is his most personal interview yet.

Do you ever still feel overwhelmed by grief?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do as it relates to my son Beau. God willing, I'm going to - I'm going to see him again.

COOPER: Beau Biden died in 2015. And in 1972, President Biden's first wife, Neilia, died in a car crash with their 13-month-old daughter, Naomi.

BIDEN: I found myself spending a lot of time, what could I have done -- was it my fault this all happened?

[08:45:04]

What could I have done differently?

COOPER: The interview is deeply revealing. The most powerful man in the world talking about the private pain he still feels.

BIDEN: I opened one of the boxes that had never been opened. And it was a scrapbook. And there was a picture of the car. I took it downstairs and I burned it. I could not -- could not - I don't want to know the detail.

COOPER: Grief doesn't go away, but we can learn to live with it and learn from it. And like President Biden, find purpose beyond the pain.

The second episode of season 2, "A President's Grief," is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And Anderson Cooper joins us now.

We're also joined by CNN contributor Evan Osnos, a staff writer at "The New Yorker" and the author of the biography "Joe Biden: The Life, The Run and What Matters Now."

Anderson, good morning.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

HARLOW: That line where you said you and your brother never talked about that grief and you think he would be alive now if you had.

COOPER: I do think that. Yes. Yes, I mean, I think talking about it is -- I think talking about it's so hard, especially for children, and I think the ripple effects of not talking about it are incredibly damaging. And it's something I've lived with my entire life and just now I'm sort of dealing with. But I certainly think it contributed to my brother's sense of loneliness and isolation and depression.

MATTINGLY: Evan, I was just telling Anderson before we came back, I was struck in the episode -- I feel like I've heard every story from Biden in covering him for the last two and a half years, and grief and how he's reacted to grieve is a large part of his story. I learned a lot from this conversation, which I think gets to this conversation which cites your book, which cites your biography, Anderson does, in the conversation. How -- can you explain to people how this has driven the president to where he is now?

EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, and I'll tell you, I learned things from this conversation, too, which is amazing. Here we are half a century after this began for Joe Biden and there are dimensions of his experience that we are still learning and that we should learn and must learn. You know, in some ways, when we talk about presidents, there are touchstones. There are -- if you can't understand FDR without understanding the role that polio played in his life. You can't under LBJ without thinking about the role that Texas and race played.

For Joe Biden it is grief. And as Anderson mentioned a moment ago, he brings it into the public square in a way that's very rare for people at the apex of our politics. And for Joe Biden, if you don't understand what grief means to him, you don't understand his views on suffering, on work, on purpose, on the presidency itself. This is essential to who he is and we're - we're right to learn about it.

HARLOW: You also learned a lot about the president and about the presidency and loss and grief. President Biden came out in a way to you that no president has ever spoken about their grief.

COOPER: Yes, I don't think there has been ever a sitting president who has sat - who has agreed to sit down and talk about the personal losses in his own life and the grief which he still feels today. And I look back at the comments, you know, more than 15 American presidents lost children. I mean John Adams, John Quincy Adams lost four children. Thomas Jefferson lost four. John F. Kennedy lost a child while in the White House, a son named Patrick who only lived for 39 days. Rarely did any of them talk about it publicly.

And certainly, you know, President George H.W. Bush lost a daughter, Robyn, to leukemia in 1953. She was three years old. He and Barbara Bush talked about it more after they had left the White House, in later years. But he kept a photo of Robyn, according to his son, on his desk her entire -- his entire life. I think it's so important for the most powerful man on the planet to talk about this. And I hope it encourages other people to talk about it in their own lives.

HARLOW: And finding - you talk about finding purpose in the pain.

COOPER: Yes, that's something President Biden talked about. The idea of finding purpose beyond pain. And that's, I think, been very important for President Biden in terms of helping him live with this and - and live through this. You know, he had the purpose in 1972 of he had these two little boys who needed his -- who needed their dad and finding the purpose in Beau's death. And that was something that Beau Biden spoke to President Biden about before he died, about not turning inward and not sort of taking himself out of the mainstream of life.

MATTINGLY: It ended up becoming the genesis of Biden's book "Promise Me Dad."

Evan, to that point, the difference between how the president is with his loss and -- his first loss from his family and Beau, you could hear it in him talking about Beau and the clip from Anderson's show.

OSNOS: Yes.

[08:50:00]

MATTINGLY: How do you think that kind of informs how he operates?

OSNOS: Yes, it is quite a remarkable moment, frankly, hearing how raw this is for President Biden. Here we are eight years after the death of Beau Biden, and it is a present piece of his life on a daily basis. He talks about the need for what he describes as constant contact with his surviving children, his son, his daughter and with his grandchildren. He -- after the death of his wife and his daughter in 1972, he came to rely on a few key things, one was staying as close as he possibly could to his family. The other one was coming to believe in his own Irish roots. You know, he carries with him today a rosary in his pocket. Not just any rosary, but a rosary that was of the kind that Irish prisoners had in prison because, as he says, I draw solace from knowing what the Irish have endured and what they have overcome.

COOPER: Yes, I found it amazing that, I mean, he took out this rosary. I had never - and I'd seen the rosary he wears, the virgin of Guadalupe, around his wrist, which belonged to his son.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

COOPER: I did not realize he has this other rosary in his pocket. I'm not sure if he carries it with him at all times, but he had it during this interview. I mean he took it out and he said, I think I'm going to reveal myself here. I had to look up what a prisoner's rosary was. I was unaware of it.

HARLOW: Yes.

Anderson, thank you so much. I can't wait to listen.

COOPER: Yes.

HARLOW: Everyone, you should listen today. You can get it at the QR code right on the screen. "All There Is" is out today wherever you get your podcasts.

And, Evan Osnos, as always, thank you for joining us.

MATTINGLY: Well, we have exclusive new CNN reporting on the election interference case in Georgia. Who prosecutors added on their witness list in the case against Donald Trump.

HARLOW: And next hour CEOs of America's largest banks will testify on Capitol Hill.

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[08:55:58]

HARLOW: All right, here are the "5 Things" to know for this Wednesday, December 6th.

The Israeli military says it is carrying out an intense operation still across Gaza launching more than 250 air strikes targeting Hamas cells and terrorists.

MATTINGLY: And a CNN exclusive, Mike Pence could be taking the stand when Donald Trump goes on trial in Georgia for trying to overturn the 2020 election.

HARLOW: Next hour, the CEOs of America's largest banks will be on Capitol Hill following the regional banking crisis earlier this year.

MATTINGLY: And also today a crucial NTSB summit to focus on the mental well-being of pilots after the FAA announced a special committee to look at pilot rules.

HARLOW: Taylor Swift going from anti-hero to "Time" magazine "Person of the Year." The megastar saying, quote, "this is the proudest and happiest I have ever felt."

Those are your "5 Things" to know this morning.

MATTINGLY: And we close with some sad news into CNN. Legendary screen writer and producer Norman Lear has passed away at the age of 101. He created iconic shows such as "All In the Family" and "The Jeffersons." We're going to have much more on his life coming up.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts after this break.

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