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DeSantis & Ramaswamy Attack Haley on Big Donors, Foreign Policy; Moment of Silence Held for Victims of UNLV Shooting. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She caves any time the left comes after her.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nikki is corrupt.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I love all the attention, fellows. Thank you for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It was knives out for Nikki Haley at last night's Republican presidential debate. Will it stop her momentum? Will any of it halt Trump from becoming the party's nominee?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Because of course, the Republican front- runner again not on the debate stage. Instead of hitting the campaign trail today, Donald Trump is expected to be in a New York City courtroom.

HARLOW: The Senate Republicans block critical aid to Ukraine and Israel, demanding tougher new border policies in return. What President Biden says he is now willing to do.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

Well, good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us on this Thursday. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. You were probably up late, watching the final Republican presidential debate of the year. Four candidates on that stage, clashing on policy, trading some personal insults, as well, with time running out to make their pitch to voters before the Iowa caucuses, now less than six weeks away.

MATTINGLY: Now, Nikki Haley took the brunt of the attacks from Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy over her big-ticket donations and her foreign policy positions. At one point, Ramaswamy even holding up a handwritten sign reading "Nikki equals corrupt."

Haley's explanation for the attacks: jealousy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HALEY: And in terms of these donors that are supporting me, they're

just jealous. They wish that they were supporting them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: But it was the frontrunner by a mile, Donald Trump, who was, again, not on the debate stage. He largely seemed to come out unscathed.

Let's begin our coverage this hour with Jeff Zeleny. He joins us in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Morning. Good early morning, Jeff. Did the debate, you think, move the needle?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Poppy.

Look, that needle has been very stubborn and slow to move, but there were several moments of conflict and confrontation, particularly for voters who perhaps are just tuning into this race, that they can chew over for the next six weeks before the voting begins.

Nikki Haley, of course, and Ron DeSantis continued their feud over who's the most conservative, who's the strongest on China. Vivek Ramaswamy, of course, weighed in. Chris Christie said Donald Trump unfit for office. But once again, the man not on stage may have been the biggest winner of all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (voice-over): Nikki Haley at the center of a firestorm as Republican rivals sought to slow her rise Wednesday night during a heated final debate of the year.

DESANTIS: Her donors, these Wall Street liberal donors, they make money in China. They are not going to let her be tough on China, and she will cave to the donors. She will not stand up for you.

HALEY: He's mad, because what -- those Wall Street donors used to support him, and now they support me.

ZELENY (voice-over): Ron DeSantis furiously tangled with Haley and her newfound support from some big-name donors in a bitter battle to become the leading alternative to Donald Trump.

The former president continues to dominate the campaign, despite thumbing his nose at another debate.

HALEY: You can't defeat Democrat chaos with Republican chaos. And that's what Donald Trump gives us.

ZELENY (voice-over): Forty days before the first votes of the 2024 race are cast in the Iowa caucuses, the sparring among the contenders onstage in Alabama reached a new level of urgency, and incivility. Particularly between Chris Christie and Vivek Ramaswamy.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the fourth debate, the fourth debate that you would be voted in the first 20 minutes as the most obnoxious blowhard in America. So shut up for a while.

RAMASWAMY: Chris, your version of foreign policy experience was closing a bridge from New Jersey to New York.

CHRISTIE: Yes.

RAMASWAMY: So do everybody a favor, just walk yourself off that stage, enjoy a nice meal, and get the hell out of this race.

ZELENY (voice-over): Christie stood alone in issuing a dire warning about the prospect of Trump returning to power.

CHRISTIE: Do I think he was kidding when he said he was a dictator? All you have to do is look at the history. And that's why failing to speak out against him, making excuses for him, pretending that somehow he's a victim, empowers him.

You want to know why those poll numbers are where they are? Because folks like these three guys on the stage make it seem like his conduct is acceptable. Let me make it clear: his conduct is unacceptable. He's unfit.

[06:05:09]

ZELENY (voice-over): It was the fiery exchanges between DeSantis and Haley that may have resonated the loudest. Like when he amplified his conservative Florida record and his law banning gender-affirming treatments for minors.

DESANTIS: I am sick of Republicans who are not willing to stand up and fight back against what the left is doing to this country. And you have other candidates up here like Nikki Haley; she caves any time the left comes after her, any time the media comes after her.

HALEY: I actually said his "Don't Say Gay" bill didn't go far enough, because it only talked about gender until the third grade. And I said it shouldn't be done at all, that that's for parents to talk about. It shouldn't be talked about with schools.

ZELENY (voice-over): For much of the debate, Haley receded into the background, standing silent as her rivals piled on. And her long- running feud with Vivek Ramaswamy bubbled over again.

RAMASWAMY: I don't have a woman problem. You have a corruption problem. And I think that that's what people need to know. Nikki is corrupt.

HALEY: It's not worth my time to respond to him.

ZELENY (voice-over): It was also a night of revealing alliances, with Christie coming to Haley's defense and firing back at Ramaswamy.

CHRISTIE: I've known her for 12 years, which is longer than he's even started to vote in the Republican primary. And while we disagree about some issues, and we disagree about who should be president of the United States, what we don't disagree on is this a smart, accomplished woman, and you should stop insulting her.

ZELENY (voice-over): Yet, Christie and Haley are also on a collision course of their own, with moderate Republicans and independent voters in New Hampshire a centerpiece of their respective strategies.

But the first stop in the Republican contest comes in Iowa, where DeSantis is staking his claim on slowing Trump's march to the nomination, by whittling away his support to emerge as the leading alternative.

DESANTIS: It is not a job for somebody that's pushing 80. We need somebody that's younger. We need somebody that's going to be able to go in there and clean house on day one and do it for two terms.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (on camera): So perhaps one of most notable factors of the debate last evening was the fact that Nikki Haley was standing there, taking so many arrows coming her direction, and intentionally making the decision -- in fact, her aides told us before the debate that she was going to appear presidential and perhaps not respond to all of these attacks.

That is the sign of a candidate on the rise. There is no doubt that DeSantis got many of his conservative record across. That, of course, is key to Iowa evangelical voters and other conservatives.

So at the end of all of this, it's difficult to say that this may have changed many minds, except for perhaps the open ones. And as we talk to voters, there are still voters with open minds. So this, of course, will continue the debate.

But perhaps the biggest contest of all, at least for Iowa last night, was the University of Iowa/Iowa State women's basketball game. So the question: how many people were actually watching this debate?

Phil and Poppy.

ZELENY (voice-over): Shout-out to Caitlin Clark. Jeff Zeleny, we appreciate it. Thanks, man.

HARLOW: So joining us now, CNN political commentator and former senior spokesperson for Hillary -- for Hillary. Karen Finney at the table. CNN political commentator Scott Jennings. And our senior political analyst and anchor, John Avlon. Morning, everyone.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST/ANCHOR: Morning, guys.

HARLOW: Karen, let me start with you. So, some people this morning saying, Haley didn't say a lot. She got attacked all the time.

KAREN FINNEY: Yes.

HARLOW: Did you think it was a weak or strong debate for her?

FINNEY: I thought it was a very strong debate for her, because look, at the end of the day, she needed to do no harm, which she did. She held her own. She did a good job of responding to the attacks. She didn't get flustered.

She did a great job of handling Ramaswamy in the one attack where she said kind of said, No, I'm not even going to -- you know, just treated him a like he was, you know, a little fleck of dirt or something. Right?

And again, she had several moments where she had clear, concise answers. I may not agree with what she had to say, for example, on immigration, but she certainly got her perspective across.

And she did something what woman candidates have to do, which is you have to show toughness and strength and compassion in different ways than men do. And I think she did that quite well.

MATTINGLY: She also got a pretty strong defense from Chris Christie, who I expected would go after her. She's ascendant in New Hampshire. New Hampshire is critical to Christie. Do we -- I think we have that. Can we listen to it real quick?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: He has insulted Nikki Haley's basic intelligence. Not her positions, her basic intelligence.

If you want to disagree on issues, that's fine. And Nikki and I disagree on some issues. But I'll tell you this, I've known her for 12 years, which is longer than he's even started to vote in a Republican primary, and while we disagree about some issues and we disagree about who should be president of the United States, what we don't disagree on is this is a smart, accomplished woman, and you should stop insulting her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I mean, clearly, they're aligned on their visceral loathing for Vivek Ramaswamy. But why, if she's his primary problem in New Hampshire, in this kind of second tier of the race, would he defend her like that?

[06:10:02]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought two -- two things. One, it's a signal. He's running a very narrow campaign to a certain kind of voter in New Hampshire: independents, maybe even some Democrats. And so that -- defending her against someone that those people would loathe, Ramaswamy, is a good tactic.

But two and more broadly, I thought I started to see the outlines of some alliances on the stage. The pre-Trump Republicans and the post- Trump Republicans. And Christie and Haley are obviously pre-Trump, and DeSantis and Ramaswamy are post.

Now -- now Christie sort of disavowed that with Dana Bash afterwords, saying he's not in league with her. And he actually foreshadowed, you know, several weeks of attacks that -- or clashes with her that's coming in the Granite State.

You know, he didn't sound like a man who was fixing to drop out and endorse her or anything. He sounded like someone who was going to stay in. But you could tell --

AVLON: I disagree with you. I disagree with you both on this. I think there's a sense that -- that, you know, was this strategic? Isn't it surprising that Christie wouldn't have gone after Haley, because of their jousting for the same vote in New Hampshire?

I think the very fact -- that is evidence of the fact that I think this was sincere. I think this was just decency. I think it was just for him saying, Hey, this is a ridiculous attack. Stop it. And I think we're not used to seeing that -- so not used to seeing that on the stage that we write it up to some of tactical incongruence.

FINNEY: I assure you that Chris Christie knows that one of the common attacks on women is their intelligence. You know, we see a lot of that for -- against a number of women. And he very intentionally said, you keep going after her intellect, and he made a point of saying that.

I thought that was a play for woman voters, because he knew that women watching that --

AVLON: It's just instinctive.

FINNEY: -- didn't like that. And just --

AVLON: I think it's just instinctive. It's decency. Look, God bless New Hampshire's open primaries. I'm just saying that --

HARLOW: Well, guess what?

AVLON: -- sometimes decency happens.

HARLOW: Chris Christie is coming on the program. So we're going to ask him.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: There you go.

JENNINGS: Ramaswamy in that was -- you know, he aping Trump's attacks on Haley. I mean, he's done this, you know, bird-brained thing. And Ramaswamy is constantly trying to prove to Donald Trump how loyal he is. You know? But so Trump's never materialized for Christie to attack. So Ramaswamy has been a -- you know, a stand-in for it. You know?

HARLOW: So stay with us. We've got a lot more to get through from the debate last night. We'll be back with that in a moment.

MATTINGLY: We've been talking about it. Vivek Ramaswamy unleashing conspiracy theories, as well, on the stage. They were very out there. He called the January 6th attacks an inside job, said Democrats support the Great Replacement Theory. Hear how he responds when our Dana Bash pushed back on what he said.

And family shed tears of relief, reunited after a shooting killed three people on the campus of UNLV. We have brand-new information on who the shooter was and his connection to the university. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMASWAMY: Why am the only person on this stage, at least, who can say that January 6th now does look like it was an inside job? That the government lied to us for 20 years about Saudi Arabia's involvement in 9/11? That the Great Replacement Theory is not some grand right-wing conspiracy theory but a basic statement of the Democratic Party's platform?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Why? Because you sound like an idiot. That's the panelists' words (ph). Sorry.

That was one of the conspiracy theories, several conspiracy theories that Vivek Ramaswamy shared on the Republican debate stage last night. Here's what he told CNN's Dana Bash after the debate in the spin room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMASWAMY: If you had asked me three years ago, is there some chance January 6th was an inside job, I would have said that was crazy talk. I would say, looking at the facts of the video footage that have come out, Dana, it is shocking that you still haven't gotten a clear answer of how many federal agents were in the field that day.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: But when you use the term Great Replacement Theory, that is -- that is --

RAMASWAMY: That is exactly what that refers to.

BASH: You understand that -- but you understand that that -- that term is something that --

RAMASWAMY: It is literally --

BASH: -- evokes antisemitism. It's dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Back with us, Scott Jennings, Karen Finney and John Avlon.

Karen, to you on this, why -- why did he list all of those off? Was that politically strategic at all? And Dana is exactly right. It is dangerous, not just the Great Replacement Theory; all of those that he ticked off. FINNEY: Absolutely. He had that litany sort of ready to go. Look, he

went full-on Q -- QAnon -- last night and just laid it all out there. Almost felt to me as though he felt he knew he may not get another shot on a debate stage, so let me just put it all out there and try to, you know, whip up the people who actually believe some of those awful things.

It was a pretty shocking, I think even Scott would agree, it was a pretty shocking litany, and particularly when it comes to the Great Replacement Theory, which was quite disgusting, actually.

AVLON: It is. I mean, it's worse than idiotic. And I think, to me, that was the worst answer I've ever heard in any debate, because it was so pathetically pandering and, frankly, disqualifying.

MATTINGLY: Pandering to who, though?

AVLON: Pandering to a certain segment of the Republican base. And here's how I -- you know, if you look up what he stitched together, every major conspiracy theory of this century, right, from 9/11 to January 6th being an inside job, you know, itself a term that usually invoked the Great Replacement Theory. And then he went on. That is a dog whistle to a certain segment of the Republican electorate that can't -- that loves that legitimization they just heard from the stage.

And so that's why it's worse than cynical. It's sinister.

JENNINGS: I'm just disappointed Dana didn't ask him about the moon landing.

FINNEY: That's what I was thinking!

JENNINGS: I mean, there is a segment of very, very, very, very online alt-right types that he is playing for. I don't think it's an electoral coalition. I think it's a post -- it's obviously a post- campaign, you know, branding coalition, or whatever.

But it -- these debates have been terrible for him. You know, when we started back in August, he was at 7, 8 percent nationally. He's now down to the 4 range. He really has sort of plummeted after each one of these increasingly grating, obnoxious, and ridiculous performances.

And to stand on a debate stage and use the term "inside job," it -- this is not a man who's playing for the nomination. He's playing for something else.

AVLON: And unless we forget, on the Great Replacement Theory, there have been, I think, three or four shooter manifestos that we've seen --

JENNINGS: Right.

AVLON: -- I hesitate to use that word -- that specifically invoke Great Replacement Theory. So when you're doing that from a presidential debate stage, there's a body count behind that conspiracy theory.

[06:20:08]

MATTINGLY: And also, he also -- there's the fever swamps, where this is existing. It's like you got sucked into 17 responses to a tweet down, and all of a sudden, you look up and like, Oh, no, this is not where I want to be. Which is basically Vivek Ramaswamy.

But he also attacked transgenderism as a mental health disorder. The reason I bring it up is because this is a more, I think, frontline Republican issue, or has been. Listen to how Chris Christie responded to questions related to it, compared to Ron DeSantis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I agree. We should empower parents to be teaching the values that they believe in, in their homes, without the government telling them what those values should be. And yet, we want to take other parental rights away.

DESANTIS: As a parent, you do not have the right to abuse your kids. This is cutting off their genitals. This is mutilating these minors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I think the question here is, one, this is such a small segment of society. Why has it become such a frontline issue for the party?

But two there are real effects here. You talk to -- you know, there are surveys that show one in three LGBTQ youth have severe mental health -- or have mental health issues, due to a spike in policies like this.

This is backed -- the care is backed by medical associations. I guess why is it such an issue? Ron DeSantis has attacked Nikki Haley on it repeatedly.

FINNEY: I think there's a perception in the Republican coalition, the Republican Party. We've seen bills attacking LGBTQ youth throughout the country in Republican states with Republican governors. So clearly, there is a segment that believes this is mobilizing to parts of the base.

Personally, I thought it was disgusting, because the other thing we're seeing is that, as this conversation has risen, we're seeing higher rates of depression and suicide among LGBTQ youths.

So I think demonizing children as an electoral strategy is really disgusting. But it does -- there is a perception that it would mobilize parts of the base.

HALEY: The -- the facts are that most medical, almost all medical associations consider -- the question was about gender-affirming care, right, and who should have control: the state, the government -- federal government, or parents. And Christie says parents. And you heard what Ron DeSantis said.

Scott, most medical associations agree that not only is it OK, but it is medically necessary for some youths to prevent things like suicide. So are you concerned to hear answers like DeSantis and Ramaswamy calling transgenderism, which is a separate issue, a mental health disorder?

JENNINGS: Yes. DeSantis's answer is squarely within the mainstream of opinion of the Republican Party. Ramaswamy's answer probably is closer to the center of it, as well.

Christie, I understand his argument on it. But if you were Ron DeSantis, and you were trying to attract, you know, evangelical caucus-goers in Iowa, what he said in that whole exchange, there is no doubt that he won that exchange, vis-a-vis what the message would be to the Republican Party.

HARLOW: Really? And Chris Christie's argument about big government.

JENNINGS: Flat.

HARLOW: Flat? Parents should have rights in schools, et cetera, but not on this?

JENNINGS: Well, and you heard what DeSantis said, which is you don't give the parents the right to commit child abuse. And so if you just -- if you play that exchange for caucus-goers walking into a high school gym on caucus night, I can almost guarantee you who would come out on top in a straw poll.

FINNEY: It's also the difference between a primary election answer and a general election answer. I think what Chris Christie said would probably float in a -- in the general election context, whether or not you --

AVLON: It's an attempt at consistency, right? I mean, what he's saying is if you're for parental rights, then we're for parental rights.

I do think there's probably room for more nuanced debate around some of these issues, particularly with regard to minors. "The Economist" had a cover story about this.

And the problem is the demonization of a small group of people who are effectively defenseless. And the elevation of this and to -- you know, a civilizational defining issue itself is designed to demonize.

But we should also be able to have a civil debate around the issue of surgery, you know, with minors.

MATTINGLY: Right. It's the elevation for purely political purposes that I kind of get stuck on.

HARLOW: That's a great way to put it.

MATTINGLY: All right, guys, stick around. We have a lot more to get to later in the hour.

HARLOW: Also this morning, we are getting new information about the shooter the police say killed three people on UNLV's campus and the emotional message from LeBron James about guns in America.

MATTINGLY: And the presidents of elite universities desperately trying to do some damage control under growing pressure from their response to antisemitism and hate speech against Jewish students. What they're saying this morning, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:28:40]

HARLOW: Welcome back. This morning, we do have new information on the shooter who police say killed at least -- killed three people at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, yesterday. Marquees along the Vegas Strip offering messages of support, with the hashtags, "#LasVegasStrong" and "#UNLVStrong."

And hours after the gunmen opened fire, community members held a vigil, gathering to mourn the lives lost. Lucy Kafanov is live for us this morning in Las Vegas.

Lucy, tragic, again, another mass shooting in America. Do we know anything more about the shooter this morning?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, police have not formally identified the shooter because, as of last night, they were still notifying next of kin.

But according to law enforcement officials who spoke to CNN, he is a 67-year-old career college professor who has connections to schools in both Georgia and North Carolina.

In terms of his connection to this university, according to a law enforcement source briefed on this investigation, who spoke to the Associated Press, he had unsuccessfully sought to get a job at this particular school.

Now, all of this unfolded early yesterday. Shots rang out at around 11:45 in the morning near Beam Hall, which is home to the university's business school Police say that the shooting started on the fourth floor of the building and went on to multiple floors, the sheriff saying police neutralized, engaged with and neutralized the suspect outside but not before he killed three people.

He injured one individual who was sent to the hospital with a gunshot wound, now in stable condition.

[06:30:00]